I have no choice. Is locking new kitten in the bathroom cruel?

[Hoboforeternity]

With silver and rivel. I tried my best without locking either in a room. Basically all available spaces in my small house is claimed by rivel, except the bathroom since i don't allow her there anyway. If i lock her in my room, rivel lost access to one of her litterbox, also my room is a significant social area.

If i don't, they kinda tolerate each other for a time, until they eventually cross path too many times, and the growling ensue. This morning it escalated into full on physical contact. Thankfully doesn't seem claws or fangs are involved.

I also have difficulty litter training silver and i woke up with poop and pee on the floor, i also have to wash silver's backside due to pee tracking.

I really don't want to do it but i think i have to use the bathrooms to lock silver until they get used to each other.

My bathroom is small, literally just a toilet and shower. Would it traumatize the kitten if i put her in there most of the time when i am gone.

She will be out when i am home and not fighting, but she's gonna be in there probably for like few hours a day.

 

[molly92]

That's fine! Kittens especially do a good job of being creative with the space they're in. Provide things to do, like boxes, towels, and toys, and change it up every now and then if you think she's getting bored. I think bathrooms are perfect for new cats of any age to get used to the house for the beginning of the introduction period. They're not large enough that it's overwhelming, they're generally safe without a lot of cords or dangerous things to chew on, and they're much easier to clean than another room. I do think it's important to keep cats separated by a physical barrier like a door while they're getting to know each other, too.

 

[vince]

I kept my little girl in my bedroom closet for two or three days when she first came to live with me. Of course, I brought her out for some interaction with me from time to time and furnished the closet with litter box, toys, water and food. She turned out fine, and that closet still is one of her favorite places to get into mischief to this day.

After that, I moved her to a spare bedroom for about a week before she got out and took the introduction to the other cats into her own hands (or paws, as the case may be).

 

[Hoboforeternity]

That's fine! Kittens especially do a good job of being creative with the space they're in. Provide things to do, like boxes, towels, and toys, and change it up every now and then if you think she's getting bored. I think bathrooms are perfect for new cats of any age to get used to the house for the beginning of the introduction period. They're not large enough that it's overwhelming, they're generally safe without a lot of cords or dangerous things to chew on, and they're much easier to clean than another room. I do think it's important to keep cats separated by a physical barrier like a door while they're getting to know each other, too.

if she meows that sounds like crying (you know what it sounds like) do i just ignore her ? like you know it tears into my conscience when i heard the crying but it's still logically the best choice.

i also have question: do i turn on the fans or not? it's loud and might scare the kitty, but without it there would be little air cycling trough the room and might get humid and hot because there are no other opening to outside.

it's basically a total re-introduction because throwing them together and hope for the best doesn't work. rivel basically retreated to her old timid self when the kitty is around. she barely ate.if the kitten is on sight or even heard. this morning, i have to go out with silver, leave rivel alone with food, wait until she finishes her food and go back inside.


but yeah, she's safe in there, i closed the toilet lid, removed all cleaners and chemicals, put some blankets and water bowl. ( i don't put food because both cats are on scheduled eating). basically i am more woried about her mental state and being in distress after being an outdoor cat into stuck in small room because i didn't lock rivel when she came in the house and i let her explore at her own pace.

 

[ArtNJ]

So what happened exactly during the "fight"?

Many have used a bathroom; it isn't cruel to put a kitten in there with a cozy basket with blanket, food and litter. However, the major issue with using a working bathroom isn't so much the size, its the fact that every time you go in and out, the cat will try and get out. If you are like me and need to use it at 3 am, then good luck. If you are going to have escapes, its pretty much guarrantied to work no better than just letting them work it out.

Now I'm not judging here, but you have had several escapes at the front door. (So have I, not judging, its **very** hard with some cats!) But just as a practical matter, if you can't control the front door, well, the bathroom door is harder. So being realistic, this is going to be very difficult for you I think. Thats why I asked about exactly what happened during the fight, to reason through whether this is truly necessary.

 

[Hoboforeternity]

So what happened exactly during the "fight"?

Many have used a bathroom; it isn't cruel to put a kitten in there with a cozy basket with blanket, food and litter. However, the major issue with using a working bathroom isn't so much the size, its the fact that every time you go in and out, the cat will try and get out. If you are like me and need to use it at 3 am, then good luck. If you are going to have escapes, its pretty much guarrantied to work no better than just letting them work it out.

so it's around 7.30 where it was feeding time for my cat. i started with small playtime. during this time, sil is in my room, rivel is in the living room. i take turn in entertaining them. i got one chase a toy, then when they're tired i move to the other cat and repeated this 2-3 times. the door was still open but both got distracted enough to stay in their respective areas. after that, meal time. i prepared the food, rivel follows me as usual but silver has no idea of the schedule yet, so she's just in the room recovering her breath. meal time. i gave rivel her food, then wait until she digs in, went to my room and give silver hers.

the problem is the younger cat finished eating first, and got out of the room maybe curious or something. rivel probably sees this as a threat that the younger cat wants to take her food. before i could intervene, she hisses and lunges, swatting the other cat (didn't know exactly if claws are involved, but there are no wound and only few strand of fur came off). the younger ran away to the kitchen and hid under the table, rivel stopped eating and just stared. so i brought the kitty outside holding her, peek trough window until rivel finishes her food and come back in. that's when i put her in the bathroom, then left for work.

i work near the house and own a small business. during break, i can go home for around 30 minutes, i usually feed rivel at this time, refill my coffee thermos and go back to work. during this the kitten still meows (unclear whether she continously meows for 4 hours during i am gone, or she heard / smelled me coming)

during this time, i made coffee, fed rivel and wait for her to groom. i prepared the kitten's food. the door-dashing problem i solved with by opening the door very slightly, then reached my hand down, gently blocking the kitten's head, then i slipped myself into the room. in there, i sat on the floor with the cat, gave her food and waited until she finished eating. i pet her for several minutes and held her then go out the same way: stood right in front of the door, using my foot as a barrier, slightly open the door, then gently block her head then slip out.

it's 4 PM right now so i am not home yet, just procrastinating here lol.

 

[Hoboforeternity]

Ok so i got home. The kitten is settling in there safely i think. The problem is she won't use the litter. Thankfully it's the bathroom so not too hard to clean. Opening the door gently works, she doesn't bolt.

I put a piece of her poo in the litter box and covered it, i hope she learns it eventually.

 

[klunick]

Ok so i got home. The kitten is settling in there safely i think. The problem is she won't use the litter. Thankfully it's the bathroom so not too hard to clean. Opening the door gently works, she doesn't bolt.

I put a piece of her poo in the litter box and covered it, i hope she learns it eventually.

You might have to start with a different litter until she gets the hang of it and then switch to the pellets. It seems from what is posted on this site that some cats don't adapt well to pellets and she has never used a litter box before. Also, is there any way to take some time off work to really work on socializing the cats? It has been a long time since I didn't have siblings and the last time was when I was little and the socialization process went something like this...
"Mitten, this is your new little brother. Get along with him or else!"

From what you wrote, it sounds like Rivel's main issue with Silver is while eating. Can you put Rivel's bowl up higher so even if Silver is around, Rivel knows she can't get to it?

 

[ArtNJ]

A swat, even a lunge swat, isn't a fight. Thats more like "your scaring me, I want you out of my space, NOW". Its not ideal but it doesn't necessarily mean they can't work it out. You'd just have to monitor heavily for a while.

You need to decide if its realistic to use the bathroom. The issues are: (1) since its an active bathroom, you have to go in and out more than people with a spare room or even an active bedroom; (2) its small, so the cat is going to always be right there when the door opens; (3) the cat will want to leave, even more so than with a larger room; and (4) if you have to in the middle of the night forget about it. Consider those issues, and the fact that your cat seems escape prone.

If its not realistic to use the bathroom, you really need to just leave them together while monitoring and see if it can be worked out. With cats this young it probably can. (Well, there *is* a method of introduction involving a dog crate or covered playpen if you could borrow one. Its not one recommended in our guide, but it has worked for some.)

 

[Hoboforeternity]

You might have to start with a different litter until she gets the hang of it and then switch to the pellets. It seems from what is posted on this site that some cats don't adapt well to pellets and she has never used a litter box before. Also, is there any way to take some time off work to really work on socializing the cats? It has been a long time since I didn't have siblings and the last time was when I was little and the socialization process went something like this...
"Mitten, this is your new little brother. Get along with him or else!"

From what you wrote, it sounds like Rivel's main issue with Silver is while eating. Can you put Rivel's bowl up higher so even if Silver is around, Rivel knows she can't get to it?

As for litter = i am trying other options right now. If in a few days she isn't still using it, i will look for litter that has more sandy texture. Actually i can't believe it. Searching for organic litter i can only found those with scents. Like can't stop rolling my eyes on coffee scented litter lol.

I heard clay and bentonite based litters are bad, so i am finding plant based alternatives, like soy based but yeah. The choice is limited in my country

As for food, aside from the cat tree i can't think of a place to eat. I don't want to make a habit of cats eating on the table.

It is also more than the eating. Direct hissing happens if she gets too near, but rivel also showing signs of being uncomfortable, like retreating further into the house, under the dinner table or kitchen corner.

Silver is kinda the opposite. She's not shy at all, and easily claim spaces she deems comfortable. It took weeks before i got rivel to sit on the sofa, silver just go to it like it's hers. She's also a lot easier to handle. Basically rivel is shy and timid, silver is more easygoing and confident. Like it took me days before i can touch rivel, but with silver you can use her whatever you want. She likes a little bit rought petting, audible pats on the butt, hell i can use her tail to tickle her ears she will just purrs away.


With this consideration, the bathroom is mostly for rivel so she can get used to other presences. I think she could be used to her, just need time.

You need to decide if its realistic to use the bathroom. The issues are: (1) since its an active bathroom, you have to go in and out more than people with a spare room or even an active bedroom; (2) its small, so the cat is going to always be right there when the door opens; (3) the cat will want to leave, even more so than with a larger room; and (4) if you have to in the middle of the night forget about it. Consider those issues, and the fact that your cat seems escape prone.

Thank you. At least when i am not home, i need the separation, based on what i observed so far, as long as you don't send silver into panic mode, she doesn't escape. It's been 3 hours since i got home, silver didn't cry anymore and she's calm/doesn't try to bolt out because she probably is used to the bathroom now (as opposed to this morning where it is a new place for her basically)


She would only try to escape for example is she sense aggression on rivel or you startle her with very loud noise.

I will continue to observe, but based on both cat's reaction so far, isolation is working. It also works until i solve the litter issue. Right now, rivel is sleeping on the sofa, and everytime i check on silver she's sleeping. I give her some pets, scratch her chin, then go back to whatever she's doing. Basically as long she doesn't feel threatened, she will be fine.

 

[Hoboforeternity]

Well everything is progressing dandily. Silver has acknowledged what a litter box is (i just put a piece of poo inside and show her to bury it. Eventually she used it)


Rivel is back to her normal self and began to tolerate the noises from the bathroom. I should have done this since last week.

 

[klunick]

Well everything is progressing dandily. Silver has acknowledged what a litter box is (i just put a piece of poo inside and show her to bury it. Eventually she used it)


Rivel is back to her normal self and began to tolerate the noises from the bathroom. I should have done this since last week.

That is great!!!

 

[Hoboforeternity]

so when isolation is over, can i just move the box wherever i want, or i have to gradually move it so silver doesn't get confused? do cats share litterboxes or they will only use their own?

also Silver doesn't bury her poop, maybe she never learned it or some other behavior. i don't see it as too much problem because i scoop them immediately after they poop (unless it's like 2 AM at night when i can't be bothered)

 

[klunick]

so when isolation is over, can i just move the box wherever i want, or i have to gradually move it so silver doesn't get confused? do cats share litterboxes or they will only use their own?

also Silver doesn't bury her poop, maybe she never learned it or some other behavior. i don't see it as too much problem because i scoop them immediately after they poop (unless it's like 2 AM at night when i can't be bothered)

Yes, cats share. One cat might prefer one over the other but I have never had any issues with multiple cats using the same litter box. Boone doesn't covers his 50% of the time either. Gracie will eventually come along and do it for him if I haven't either done it myself or just scooped it out already.

 

[di and bob]

Many cats don't bury their waste, they are confident and don't need to worry about predators. To me, everything sounds great, swatting, hissing, growling, hiding, and lunging are all normal. They will subside over time. I'm sure silver will become a major PITA to Rivel for a while, but eventually, they will bond and become family. It all takes time to establish the cat hierarchy of a house.

 

[Hoboforeternity]

So yeah about litters. She already used it when she's in the bathroom. But i let her out tonight to stretch her legs. We cuddled a bit and she bolt kinda exploring, but i found her in my room . . Pooping.

So she obviously know what is the litterbox for, but if she has the option . . She prefers the floor? She's back in there now sleeping after i try to tire her wit a toy

 

[klunick]

So yeah about litters. She already used it when she's in the bathroom. But i let her out tonight to stretch her legs. We cuddled a bit and she bolt kinda exploring, but i found her in my room . . Pooping.

So she obviously know what is the litterbox for, but if she has the option . . She prefers the floor? She's back in there now sleeping after i try to tire her wit a toy

View attachment 361904

I wish I had some words of advice. When you saw her pooping, did you pick her up and stick her in the box? Make sure you clean the areas really well or the smell will remain and she will keep using them to potty.

 

[Hoboforeternity]

I wish I had some words of advice. When you saw her pooping, did you pick her up and stick her in the box? Make sure you clean the areas really well or the smell will remain and she will keep using them to potty.

I use floor soap, then some alcohol. No i didnt scoop her up because i am afraid i will startle her and associate the box with being forced into it. I just scoop the poop with old papers then throw one bit into the litter box, after that i let her roam a bit then put her back in the bathroom and we played a bit then have dinner.

 

[Lari]

I don't know if poop is the same as pee, but I know with pee you need like an enzyme type cleaner because even if you think you got the scent out, they can still smell it and think it's an okay spot to go.

 

[di and bob]

Yeah, an enzyme cat urine remover works much better. i really think she doesn't like the litter. You might have to just get a clumping clay litter and see how that goes. There is always a reason a cat refuses the box, and litter is the top one. The only reason clumping clays are 'bad' is that if a very young kitten ate some, like they often do, it can harden in their stomachs and hurt them. Silver is old enough not to do that. Remember too, kittens can't hold their urine/poop for very long so if a litter box is not readily available they will go on the floor. Keeping her in that small room would help train her to go in the box. She may be too excited when she gets to leave that small room that she forgets where her box is.