I Have More Trust Issues Than This Feral..

[Buffster7]

Thank you guys SO much for the responses and suggestions! I am wiped out today, but will be back tomorrow to re-read them and to respond. I appreciate being able to come here for input and ideas, more than I can express.

 

[Jewely]

I found the same one on Amazon that has some different views and it shows how well its made. It shows the angles better and that is one fabulous tree! It has rave reviews as well. The boys will love it and it will look beautiful in your gorgeous home! I love your couch and walls!

Yay for the success of your boys and you as well!

 

[Buffster7]

Okay. I have to agree that Charlie might have morning pain. He obviously knew he was pushing it because he kept looking up at you. It seemed like he wanted Finn to move over. I was wondering if afterwards he took the warmest spot in front of the fire. The warmth might help. This is worth investigating. Perhaps a morning heating pad? He may also just want his morning time with you. Just follow the clues.

Yes, I think he was looking up at me because he saw me raising my phone to record them. It's a see-through fireplace which means it blows hot air out into the room on the other side of that wall, too, and he often goes and lays in that room. So in this instance, I think he really was just wanting to pick on Finn. I do think morning pain could be a possibility, but we had already been up and about for nearly 3 hours at that point. Do you think it's possible he may just be grouchy in the mornings? I cannot figure it out. If I wait and let Finn out at lunch or later, there's never a problem.

As to the spraying... ugh. Charlie is definitely marking his territory. I have a spraying cat too. Yet he only sprays in the litter box. My solution was to switch to all tall rubbermaid litter boxes. I then have puppy pee pads taped to the wall in case he really over shoots. So far that has never happened. When I clean the litter boxes, I do have to clean the spray off the sides each time. It's a really really hard habit to break. I figure my boy will never stop. Yet as long as it's done in the litter box, then I am ok with it.

Those boxes are a great idea. I think if I tape a pee pad up behind it and place one underneath in case of over-shooting, it'll do the trick. Charlie only ever sprays Finn's box in Finn's room. None of the others. Now, he has sprayed my furniture before, but that was an isolated incident and boy was I MAD - and he knew it.
Something else just occurred to me. I was gone that entire day - poor Finn is still cooped up in his room when I'm gone. So I got home in time to feed them dinner - the minute I got home, Charlie pushed his way into Finn's room and sprayed his litter box. Is it possible that there could have been another cat in my yard that Charlie saw, and he wanted to hustle into Finn's room and "claim" Finn as his territory? Do cats think like that? The boys had both been watching another cat jump my fence a few days ago.

Me too. It seems to be dominance and insecurity that takes effort on my part. I added more boxes and that made a huge difference. I give the sprayer extra attention when he does it. Positive attention. I do tell him no, no when I see it and he seems to understand. He stops. It’s an off and on thing. Mostly it happens if something outside, like the possum, has been around. You might check the outside at the times it seems to happen. Don’t I remember that there was one other cat that showed up at times? He may be spraying outside somewhere.

I found the same one on Amazon that has some different views and it shows how well its made. It shows the angles better and that is one fabulous tree! It has rave reviews as well.

Thank you! I checked out the pics and I'm still concerned about the second perch - it appears that there are no step-down ledges beyond that perch. I think Charlie would just take a flying leap off of it, and I'm afraid of doing more joint damage.

Here is the tree I currently have, and Charlie loves it. I wonder if I should just settle for this. Kind of boring to have 2 of the same - I was hoping for a taller tree to give Finn something to climb. I'm just worried Charlie will claim the tallest one. What do you guys think?

 

[Buffster7]

Wait a second. I do see a step-down shelf right at the middle of the model's thigh. I just can't tell how far it protrudes. Hmmm

 

[Jcatbird]

The cat tree is spectacular. It’s a judgement call and I can tell you feel it calling to you. Lol Just remember, Charlie does not have claws. My best suggestion is to read up on how declawing affects cats first. Then decide.
Charlie may just be grouchy in the morning but knowing what I do about declawing I also wonder if he is a bit tender. There really is no way to tell that though. Since he is okay after lunch I lean towards him wanting mornings with you. This should pass.
The spraying could be him noticing that other cat. Not sure if he is claiming Finn or just the indoors but it could be both. He obviously wants Finn. I think it’s really neat how Charlie adopted Finn through the window! There is a bond there. It’s interesting that before the spraying, they saw another cat. My best guess is that the other cat may have left his scent somewhere and Charlie knows.....
Gotta cover that smell with Charlie!!! Fun and Charlie smell combined ought to do it!

 

[Jewely]

The shelf by the model’s thigh is able to adjust to widen out as is the hammock and bed on top. I saw another link that had that question explained ( it also has more reviews and buyers personal photos). You could reach out to the seller and ask.

 

[Jewely]

ETA:
This is from the same seller but in a different color I guess, and if you look at the photos from the customers, you get a better idea with regular people taking pics and actual cats on them.
This one has more reviews.

 

[walli]

The cat tree might be able to be modified, it looks like the hammock
and the shelf can be switched, hmm depends on the fitting on the top of the hammock
but you could always put a shelf down a little from the top shelf or put it close to something
Charlie can jump on. Joey won't use his hammock and Walli has never been on her cat tree
except to get the snacks I put on there. she just stands as tall as she can from the bed
to get her snacks! Oh Walli!

I have our really tall cat tree next to the fireplace so Joey can jump on the tree from there
it is kind of difficult to get to some of the shelves without something to help
Kind of a flaw in the design, some of the shelves don't come out far enough like you said.

 

[Jcatbird]

The cat tree might be able to be modified, it looks like the hammock
and the shelf can be switched, hmm depends on the fitting on the top of the hammock
but you could always put a shelf down a little from the top shelf or put it close to something
Charlie can jump on. Joey won't use his hammock and Walli has never been on her cat tree
except to get the snacks I put on there. she just stands as tall as she can from the bed
to get her snacks! Oh Walli!

I have our really tall cat tree next to the fireplace so Joey can jump on the tree from there
it is kind of difficult to get to some of the shelves without something to help
Kind of a flaw in the design, some of the shelves don't come out far enough like you said.

Oh Walli! Funny how we get things we just know the cats will love but they have other ideas? I bought some toys lately that I thought would be a big hit......some liked them and some didn’t. Go figure. I’m going to start letting the kitties do the shopping.

 

[walli]

Jcatbird I know! so funny! Walli is starting to play in her room while we are awake, I think you have the same toy
the orange 3 tiered ball spinny thing.

I am going to have to get her another interactive toy soon! Poor girl has to play by herself, she won't play with me yet.
but she is definitely making some tiny progress.

Had to put in a cat flap because her room gets cold at night, she got a little freaked by it, so were taking it slow.
she bounced back pretty well tho, She is still learning how to open it with her head, I have to leave it open, otherwise she is stuck
on one side till I open it, she will go through it with it propped open a bit, but then she goes and hides and is stuck in the room
so I go open it for her. [sigh]

Thankfully were in a warm spell right now, when it gets cold it's going to stay closed at night!

 

[Jcatbird]

Jcatbird I know! so funny! Walli is starting to play in her room while we are awake, I think you have the same toy
the orange 3 tiered ball spinny thing.

I am going to have to get her another interactive toy soon! Poor girl has to play by herself, she won't play with me yet.
but she is definitely making some tiny progress.

Had to put in a cat flap because her room gets cold at night, she got a little freaked by it, so were taking it slow.
she bounced back pretty well tho, She is still learning how to open it with her head, I have to leave it open, otherwise she is stuck
on one side till I open it, she will go through it with it propped open a bit, but then she goes and hides and is stuck in the room
so I go open it for her. [sigh]

Thankfully were in a warm spell right now, when it gets cold it's going to stay closed at night!

That’s great that Walli is playing. When you mentioned that 3 tiered ball toy I realized I haven’t noticed the one in the living room the last couple of days. Banjo did it again! I found it stashed under a shelf on a table along with a mouse toy. That toy is the one thing that was a huge hit with all the cats.

Awww! I love it that she has a cat flap. I’ve seen other kitties be intimidated by them but in time she should get used to it. I think they worry about getting trapped. Locking it after it gets cold is a very good idea since she would just stay out. Cats! Lol A friend of mine used a cardboard box with a hole cut into it to place in front of the cat flap ( both sides) for awhile. Her cat was fine with going through a hole in a box. Kitty got used to the flap after that. I guess she thought finding a hidden space behind the hole was her idea.

 

[Buffster7]

I guess she thought finding a hidden space behind the hole was her idea.

Now that's funny!

 

[Jcatbird]

Cats invented everything. We just provide access. Lol

 

[Buffster7]

Hi all, I hope this week was a good one for you ladies. I have yet another question lurking. I was going to try to "integrate" the 3 of us at bedtime this weekend - let Finn sleep with us. I ended up putting Finn to bed tonight in his own room for a few reasons.
Finn and Charlie got into a little dust-up yesterday and Charlie has been crotchety and growly with Finn since then. I didn't get Finn's baby gate latched when I left his room and Charlie entered and of course sprayed Finn's litter box again (and the wall behind it ). Finn actually doesn't react to the spraying at all. However, Charlie then committed the unpardonable sin - he laid on Finn's ripple rug, and he paid for that with fur. They separated on their own, but Charlie has been testy with Finn ever since.

Tonight in the home office they faced off again. I was on a call and couldn't intervene, but I kept a close eye on them. Finn eventually backed down. So I just wasn't sure if I should wait until things are smooth between them again before trying to share the bed?

Further reasons are that Finn really likes his room; he enjoys going back there at night with his Music for Cats, hot water blanket, nightlight, "nest" of blankets on the bed, and his bedtime snack. The minute I close the door to Finn's room, Charlie gets happy and playful and starts his zoomies. Then we play. It's become a little ritual. I've felt a little sad for him tonight since he's been keeping himself separate from us until bedtime. He doesn't hang out with us too much. And I do like our time in the morning. So I wanted one more night, but I don't want to keep doing this bedtime dance forever (I don't think?)

Do you think I should keep them separated at night until they're totally comfortable together, or do you think that sleeping together will bring about the "totally comfortable" with them?

 

[Jcatbird]

The only way to be sure is to try it. Sorry I can’t give a better answer. It is possible that this would be the final thing needed to finish the integration. The thing is, you can always revert back. I think the effort will take time and there may be discussions between them but Charlie may want that bedtime routine.
The thing with the Ripple Rug and box are that they are strictly Finn things. Do they need to learn to share everything? Not necessarily but it might be part of the final issue. I , personally have some who do want private time. With them I have attributed it to the traits of the breed being more high strung but whatever the cause, they are happy with quiet time so , whatever works for the individual. Give it a try and see how it goes. Sometimes during the night I do have little squabbles over who gets what spot in the bed but it isn’t a nightly issue. It took time to reach this point though. In your case, one kitty on the left and one on the right? Hopefully!!! I always have one on my head!

 

[pearl99]

I think also sleeping together may finalize comfort and integrating. May. And as jcatbird said don't know till you try! Mine had the discussions about who got to sleep where- actually it was Waffles informing Moo that the left side of me was HIS spot. No relenting on that. So Waffles on my left, Moo on my right.
It sounds like Charlie loves that bedtime routine, that is so cool. Finn could visit his room for awhile before bed and Charlie has his routine time then Finn can come out for the night- they both get their routines.
I have also alternated who sleeps with me at night, one cat one night, the other the other night so both scents are on the bed before letting both cats sleep on the bed (if they choose.) My house easily allowed for that though with a finished basement, and my bedroom door was open so no one was meowing at the door to get in.
And, now, Waffles has decided he doesn't need to sleep with me at night, he's somewhere else in the house. Probably in his pineapple cat cave which is his favorite spot. But, every time I sit down he's on my lap so he gets his mom time. So, now it's Moo always on my left side. Luckily no one's on my head (LOL'd at that.)
So you never know how it's going to turn out.

I'm also curious, how is the Ripple Rug? Had never heard of it and looked it up. It looks wonderful!! Moo would spend hours in it. Does it hold up? I've read mixed reviews.

 

[Buffster7]

Thank you both so much for your replies! I'm currently sitting (haven't started getting ready for bed yet) with a cat on each corner of the bed. Charlie keeps giving me the hairy eyeball, probably wondering when I'm going to kick Finn out. I'm tempted to try it tonight. I'm just worried about Charlie. He's been so offish for a few days. He's not interacting much with Finn or me and today stayed in the hearth room all day long rather than in the living room where I was studying. Finn is so affectionate and loves to be touched/held - that he's always climbing into my lap or arms, always trying to snuggle under my chin. So maybe to Charlie it feels like he's been edged out. Yet Charlie doesn't want to be held, doesn't really want to be touched these days. So it's hard to "spread the love" when he stays just out of reach, and Finn pushes in.

I would really love the boys to become integrated and become friends or at least company for each other. If sleeping in the same bed will help, I'll try. Lately it just feels like Charlie is pulling away more than enjoying Finn's company, so am not sure what the right move is tonight. Will see what transpires as I begin to get ready for bed. Thank you for your thoughtful replies - you're right, guess I won't know til I try!

 

[Buffster7]

I'm also curious, how is the Ripple Rug? Had never heard of it and looked it up. It looks wonderful!! Moo would spend hours in it. Does it hold up? I've read mixed reviews.

Finn loves the ripple rug! Charlie likes to lay on it but doesn't really play in it. Finn loves to dive through one of the holes and hides under the top layer, then pounces out at things (toys, feet, Charlie) that move by it. It seems very hardy to me - with as rough as Finn plays, it's not showing any wear that I've seen! Finn has become fiercely territorial over it - it's his prized possession now.

 

[Jcatbird]

Charlie may object but also, it may take some pushing on your part. I’m hoping that it will end up being the tie breaker though. You are the source of all things kitty! Be the alpha. Banjo sometimes objects to being held too. She wants it to be on her terms only. I pick her up anyway but I don’t hold her once she gets agitated. That’s often pretty quick but holding a toy up helps.

pearl99 I’m glad you got a laugh out of the cat sleeping on my head. I don’t even wake up anymore when it happens. Purring fur head warmer. Actually, head to feet purring blanket might be more accurate.

 

[Furballsmom]

Keep an eye on Charlie, is he eating and eliminating normally?