I can't really explain why I'm asking, but it's for Boo who passed 08/02. I have been "notified" so to speak that Hyperthyroid in Cats with CRF is "rare". Is this true?
Thanks for any help guys.
Thanks for any help guys.
-
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Hyperthyroid in CRF cats -- Rare?
- Thread starter snickerdoodle
- Start Date
Actually the two disease often go together--hyperthyroidism increases the blood pressure, damaging the kidneys. The higher blood pressure also often masks kidney failure/insufficiency; since more blood is pumping through the kidneys, the are working harder to remove wastes, but since the wastes are still being removed, the kidney insufficiency or failure doesn't show up in the blood work. It's very common for a hyperthryoid cat to suddenly have their kidney numbers shoot up when they are put on medication and their thyroid levels are stabilized.
Just curious...does this have to do with the lawsuit against the old Vet? You WILL keep us posted on that, won't you?
As far as your above question, I don't know the technicalities, but also thought the two were pretty common together.
As far as your above question, I don't know the technicalities, but also thought the two were pretty common together.
- Thread Starter Thread Starter
- #4
I was afraid to post about the complaint against my old vet, I did not know if it was allowed by the Forum, but I would love to keep you updated on it.
I received the response from the old vet today, and there are tons of lies in there, of course. I am responding to each thing.
The old vet claims I asked for a T4 even though hyperthyroidism is rare in cats. Not "Rare in CRF cats" just "Rare in cats". He claims Boo had thickening of bone in his jaw and possibly a bone infection and claims that's why he didn't suture up the site, which he never mentioned to me. He also says in this response that the tooth was healthy. He told me to my face the tooth was rotten and it had to come out (after he took it out). As far as I know he didn't take ANY x-rays of any of this so he really has no leg to stand on right now on those counts.
As for the Amforal issue with the other vet, that vet is very hurt that I filed a complaint against him and had the gall to quote a medical book saying, "excessively high doses of Amforal are toxic to dogs and cats but given 100mg daily subcutaneously over 30 days showed no ill effects" so in my response I asked if that very small quote was referring to Chronic Renal Failure cats or regular, healthy cats that just had diarrhea? It's so ridiculous!!
The other vet claims he knows of nothing he did that would have damaged the incisors (Cut them off at the root, thank you very much)
It's like a four page letter from the vet that did his extraction, I've been working through it for the past couple hours. It just struck me as odd that they would say Hyperthyroidism is rare in cats. In CRF cats or cats with no kidney impairment?
I just wanted to nail him on that one if I could, if it isn't as "rare" as they claim. He showed almost all the signs of hyperthyroidism, scratching and restlessness, but I noted they only ran a T4, not a T4 AND T3 as is usual for most vets. *shrugs*
My new vet just got handed the request for x-rays and all records on this as I called her a few minutes ago to ask about the "bone thickening" and "bone infection" the old vet claims he saw and insists that's why he didn't suture it, so they will get the x-rays from her. I am pleased with that.
Otherwise, the Old Vet's insurance called me a few weeks ago asking for the records and x-rays so I sent them everything I had after talking to a few people about what I should do. I haven't heard from them in about week I think, but they are in a real tough spot is all I can say. The total reimbursement charges came up to 1159.58 I believe.
Other thing that ticked me off: I told the Board they returned my cat to me with an IV still in his arm after his P/U surgery, and at the time, I was mad about it but he was doing well so I didn't think to throw a fit or anything... Vet claims the person who capped the catheter was off the next day when I picked him up at another kennel staff member didn't "see it". I noted that it was VERY visible and I saw it as soon as I took him out of his carrier. If they did not see it, I said it was a very serious oversight. Laziness really but I didn't say that :T
.. will keep you guys updated, if it's allowed. Don't want to get in trouble on the forums
And please ask questions if you want. I'm all ears.
I received the response from the old vet today, and there are tons of lies in there, of course. I am responding to each thing.
The old vet claims I asked for a T4 even though hyperthyroidism is rare in cats. Not "Rare in CRF cats" just "Rare in cats". He claims Boo had thickening of bone in his jaw and possibly a bone infection and claims that's why he didn't suture up the site, which he never mentioned to me. He also says in this response that the tooth was healthy. He told me to my face the tooth was rotten and it had to come out (after he took it out). As far as I know he didn't take ANY x-rays of any of this so he really has no leg to stand on right now on those counts.
As for the Amforal issue with the other vet, that vet is very hurt that I filed a complaint against him and had the gall to quote a medical book saying, "excessively high doses of Amforal are toxic to dogs and cats but given 100mg daily subcutaneously over 30 days showed no ill effects" so in my response I asked if that very small quote was referring to Chronic Renal Failure cats or regular, healthy cats that just had diarrhea? It's so ridiculous!!
The other vet claims he knows of nothing he did that would have damaged the incisors (Cut them off at the root, thank you very much)
It's like a four page letter from the vet that did his extraction, I've been working through it for the past couple hours. It just struck me as odd that they would say Hyperthyroidism is rare in cats. In CRF cats or cats with no kidney impairment?
I just wanted to nail him on that one if I could, if it isn't as "rare" as they claim. He showed almost all the signs of hyperthyroidism, scratching and restlessness, but I noted they only ran a T4, not a T4 AND T3 as is usual for most vets. *shrugs*
My new vet just got handed the request for x-rays and all records on this as I called her a few minutes ago to ask about the "bone thickening" and "bone infection" the old vet claims he saw and insists that's why he didn't suture it, so they will get the x-rays from her. I am pleased with that.
Otherwise, the Old Vet's insurance called me a few weeks ago asking for the records and x-rays so I sent them everything I had after talking to a few people about what I should do. I haven't heard from them in about week I think, but they are in a real tough spot is all I can say. The total reimbursement charges came up to 1159.58 I believe.
Other thing that ticked me off: I told the Board they returned my cat to me with an IV still in his arm after his P/U surgery, and at the time, I was mad about it but he was doing well so I didn't think to throw a fit or anything... Vet claims the person who capped the catheter was off the next day when I picked him up at another kennel staff member didn't "see it". I noted that it was VERY visible and I saw it as soon as I took him out of his carrier. If they did not see it, I said it was a very serious oversight. Laziness really but I didn't say that :T
.. will keep you guys updated, if it's allowed. Don't want to get in trouble on the forums
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- Thread Starter Thread Starter
- #6
It goes together.
Coco is starting to get that way.
The vet said it is very common.
Your old vet sure makes me mad.
Coco is starting to get that way.
The vet said it is very common.
Your old vet sure makes me mad.
- Thread Starter Thread Starter
- #8
Oh honey me too, me too. But don't worry, I'm getting him point by point and my case looks rock solid as for now. I assume their insurance company is awaiting my reply to the board before they call me back or proceed with the claim, which is fine.
Am so sorry to hear Coco is getting that way too .. how is she doing??
She is about the same.
Thanks for asking.
We picked her up from boarding today.
Thanks for asking.
We picked her up from boarding today.
- Thread Starter Thread Starter
- #10
Is there a certain area of the forums that would be better suited to keep you guys updated on the complaint process I'm going through over Boo? I will post this here but will continue it elsewhere if there is a better place.
I am really saddened to tell you guys that the old vet included in his statement that Boo had an elevated BUN level of 36 when he first blocked with crystals back in 2005, and when he had his P/U surgery on 06/23/05. I was shocked to see this in the letter from the vet and this makes my grieving process so much harder. This information was never made available to me whatsoever. I was always told "his numbers are fine", "Everything's fine", ... I can't believe this.
He brought that up when I had complained about Boo being returned to me with an IV Catheter stuck in his arm after the P/U surgery. I said it was due to my constant calling that must have aggrivated someone and they tried to rush him out as quickly as possible. The vet said the person who put him in his carrier didn't "see it". I said (this is loosely from my letter, I sound very professional in my letter) Wow, they didn't see it? It was in no way hidden beneath the "Vetwrap" and if I saw it immediately upon getting him home then this highlights a very serious oversight and is concerning.
He goes on to basically claim I kept putting off the tooth extraction by getting three rounds of antibiotics.
Then claims I didn't have an appointment for the tooth extraction, which he bit himself in the rear there because the vets only do surgeries on certain days of the week, you cannot just walk in and say oh! I want my kitty's tooth taken out thanks! ... I made an appointment and made it very clear I never left my cat there without making an appointment and didn't like leaving him there anyway.
Bigger issues: He claims the tooth was in a healthy condition. He told me to my face "That tooth was completely rotted, it really did have to come out."
He claims the problem was the surrounding bone, that it could have had a possible infection and he saw "Thickening" of the bone. Strange that no one ever told ME that, and I never heard anything about it whatsoever. I made that plainly clear in my response. I also asked why, if my new vet had such an easy time repairing what he had screwed up (in much politer terms) why could he not have done it to begin with?
He claims he did not suture Boo's extraction site up for 4 reasons: He felt there was a high probability Boo had a bone infection and didn't want to close a contaminated area. (Note that he had been on antibiotics for three rounds and had antibiotics right before the surgery and after), Second, the bone was "so thickened", he felt it would do more damage and trauma by attempting the procedure. Third, Bubba was 13 years old with an elevated BUN. Seeing that again made me even more angry, and more grief stricken. This vet KNEW my cat had an elevated BUN for more than a YEAR and never told me. That means my cat had the beginnings of renal failure and I was kept in the dark. That means Boo suffered for .. for what?
The fourth reason is that "The length of time for a gingival flap (suture) procedure and the additional time trying to get in contact with her (I'm at home all *bleeping* day I work night shift), would have kept Bubba under anesthesia significantly longer."
I am just... in complete disbelief. He goes so far as to mention Clindoral, which was given to him by some pharm company probably, and is a sol-to-gel liquid with clindamycin hydrochloride. Basically, it's inserted into the extraction site and hardens to keep food out. I was quick to point out that this isn't what happened at all, as my new vet and I were witness to. AND the old vet, since I took him up there once to have the food removed. Was it? I doubt it.
Then, he had the nerve to say it cost 14 dollars per syringe but used one of those at "No charge" to me. Awww. Isn't that sweet? I responded with, "I sincerely thanked the vet for such a generous act, but it is evident that this Clindoral did not work in this circumstance and did not prevent food from entering the extraction site, causing more pain to my cat, and it did not in any way help the extraction site to "heal on its own".
He claims he doesn't know anything that he did that would've sheared the roots of the incisors. I mentioned the elevator could have done it.
Then it goes to the day we brought him in and he was diagnosed with severe renal failure. He puts me off as not bringing Boo back soon enough, yada yada, "I didn't see her again until Boo had lost 3 pounds, was severely dehydrated" Crashing, in other words. His hemocrit at that time was 21.23 per the vet's response here, and glucose 240. Mind you none of these but the BUN was made available to me at this visit and this is where I started keeping records and writing everything down.
He suggested euthanizing then had the gall to say he suggested lowering the fluids. I cleared that up quick by saying no, My support site told me it was way too much and HAD been telling me that. So I told HIM that, he did not tell ME that. His first suggestion was euthanasia. He says I "settled" on fluid treatments. I told the Board one of the first treatments for CRF is fluids, so I did not "settle".
The T4 test comes in here, and it might go well to mention that he was given a T4 and Cholesterol check back in 2009 and these results were not made available to me nor did I know he had these tests taken. His cholesterol seemed a bit high but his T4 was fine. Here it says:
"She brought Boo in to have a T4 blood test run. She did not want to see a doctor. Boo was eating a lot and was restless; she thought he might be hypothyroid."(Yes, HYPOthyroid) She was told cats rarely become hypothyroid, but she wanted the test run anyway."
I corrected in here in my response by saying no, I asked for the T4 because I was concerned about HYPERthyroidism (underlined) and then said (Vet has written HYPOthyroid) Then included the information from Tanya's CRF site about HyperT and how it goes hand in hand with CRF and blood pressure issues.
That test DID come back normal.
Then we get to the overhydration crisis he had, where he suggested euthanasia and I told him we're lowering the fluids NOW. He said fine and to try it. Two days later Boo bounced back and was almost his normal self. I wanted to kick that vet in his shins.
This was the last visit Boo had with that hospital. It unfortunately took me that long to realize this fool didn't know his elbow from an airplane.
It's really hilarious, guys. The farther you read the farther he digs himself a hole. I showed him the X-ray given to me by my new vet and he claims it was a "Rather dark" radiograph.
In response I said "It was a "rather dark" radiograph because he was pointing at a poorly lit ceiling light, not attaching it to a proper light box to light it up the way radiographs were meant to be lit up, as my mother can attest to as she was with me and witnessed this." Can you believe the stupidity here?
He claims I didn't say anything about having the new vet's records with me, I did. I cleared that up as well and also mentioned my mother as a witness. He claims he would have biopsied and cultured the bone had I taken his offer to re-examine Boo. I laughed when I read that and nearly wrote "If my new vet saw no need to culture and biopsy the bone, why did he?" But instead wrote, "Why did my new vet have such an easy time cleaning and repairing this poorly done extraction site and removal of the sheared incisors if all of this is true? And his mouth healed extremely quickly and well? And the foul odor was gone? And his spirits picked up immediately? And his appetite skyrocketed and he returned almost to his old self?" That is a loose transcription.
And THEN: "I also noted the new vet's recommendation to raise the fluid rate." What? I scrambled through the records. Nothing of the sort. Flat out incorrect. She recommended to continue at 100mL like we had been doing.
I also pointed out the huge sticker on the front of the chart from the old vet, which the old vet was so happy to provide a picture of to the Board, that tells everyone who can see it that I had CareCredit for a limit of $500. I don't know about anyone else, but I didn't think that was anyone's business, and that tells me that my vet kept a close eye on how much I had available to spend and how much they could or could not do. I did have half the good sense to say, "If my financial situation had any bearing on the level of care given to my Boo, I am beyond horrified and saddened."
Also he wanted to do that culture and biopsy, I said "Why would I let him do anything else to my cat requiring sedation, which this vet uses Ketamine and valium, on a renal impaired cat?"
Then at the end he mentions "Our Treatment Authorization Form states no guarantee has been made as to a cure and that the client is responsible for the cost of surgical complications." In response I said: "This was not a complication, and if it were a complication I would have or should have been notified of it. This was simply negligence on the part of the veterinarian."
Has the nerve to say he realizes I love Boo very much (At this time he was unaware of Boo's passing) and hopes he does well with any future care. BLAH!
The biggest thing that hurt me in all this was seeing the test results that he provided (Which I requested and never got at the end of our seeing him the last time, I got a print out of the things I bought there, not any test results) and seeing that his numbers were elevated for nearly a year before he crashed. I made it clear that keeping those numbers from me cost my cat his life, most likely, and his screwing up this extraction site severely cut the chances that Boo would have survived any longer than he did. If I had been notified of those numbers when they found them, we could have started some sort of treatment or at least been aware of what was going on. But no. It was basically too late.
I am so angry, and grief-stricken wondering how I could let someone who calls themselves a pet lover do this to my animal. Thinking about how Boo acted when we went there, how panicked and angry he got just being there. It should have been red flags to me. He acted happy at the new vets. He liked the people there. He never flipped out on anyone. I should have seen it and it hurts me so badly.
I just wanted to update with this before I send it off and see what happens next. Next I believe it goes to the Committee of Reviews. After that I am not sure. I am also thinking that the old vet's insurance company is waiting on my reply to see exactly how bad of a spot they are in.
I don't know. This is a loosely, quickly typed version of what I am putting in the mail. I am thinking of starting a site to document all of it but am not sure about that yet.
Thank you all for all of your love and care and support. Without you we wouldn't have made it as far as we did with Boo. Thank you so much
I am really saddened to tell you guys that the old vet included in his statement that Boo had an elevated BUN level of 36 when he first blocked with crystals back in 2005, and when he had his P/U surgery on 06/23/05. I was shocked to see this in the letter from the vet and this makes my grieving process so much harder. This information was never made available to me whatsoever. I was always told "his numbers are fine", "Everything's fine", ... I can't believe this.
He brought that up when I had complained about Boo being returned to me with an IV Catheter stuck in his arm after the P/U surgery. I said it was due to my constant calling that must have aggrivated someone and they tried to rush him out as quickly as possible. The vet said the person who put him in his carrier didn't "see it". I said (this is loosely from my letter, I sound very professional in my letter) Wow, they didn't see it? It was in no way hidden beneath the "Vetwrap" and if I saw it immediately upon getting him home then this highlights a very serious oversight and is concerning.
He goes on to basically claim I kept putting off the tooth extraction by getting three rounds of antibiotics.
Bigger issues: He claims the tooth was in a healthy condition. He told me to my face "That tooth was completely rotted, it really did have to come out."
He claims the problem was the surrounding bone, that it could have had a possible infection and he saw "Thickening" of the bone. Strange that no one ever told ME that, and I never heard anything about it whatsoever. I made that plainly clear in my response. I also asked why, if my new vet had such an easy time repairing what he had screwed up (in much politer terms) why could he not have done it to begin with?
He claims he did not suture Boo's extraction site up for 4 reasons: He felt there was a high probability Boo had a bone infection and didn't want to close a contaminated area. (Note that he had been on antibiotics for three rounds and had antibiotics right before the surgery and after), Second, the bone was "so thickened", he felt it would do more damage and trauma by attempting the procedure. Third, Bubba was 13 years old with an elevated BUN. Seeing that again made me even more angry, and more grief stricken. This vet KNEW my cat had an elevated BUN for more than a YEAR and never told me. That means my cat had the beginnings of renal failure and I was kept in the dark. That means Boo suffered for .. for what?
The fourth reason is that "The length of time for a gingival flap (suture) procedure and the additional time trying to get in contact with her (I'm at home all *bleeping* day I work night shift), would have kept Bubba under anesthesia significantly longer."
I am just... in complete disbelief. He goes so far as to mention Clindoral, which was given to him by some pharm company probably, and is a sol-to-gel liquid with clindamycin hydrochloride. Basically, it's inserted into the extraction site and hardens to keep food out. I was quick to point out that this isn't what happened at all, as my new vet and I were witness to. AND the old vet, since I took him up there once to have the food removed. Was it? I doubt it.
Then, he had the nerve to say it cost 14 dollars per syringe but used one of those at "No charge" to me. Awww. Isn't that sweet? I responded with, "I sincerely thanked the vet for such a generous act, but it is evident that this Clindoral did not work in this circumstance and did not prevent food from entering the extraction site, causing more pain to my cat, and it did not in any way help the extraction site to "heal on its own".
He claims he doesn't know anything that he did that would've sheared the roots of the incisors. I mentioned the elevator could have done it.
Then it goes to the day we brought him in and he was diagnosed with severe renal failure. He puts me off as not bringing Boo back soon enough, yada yada, "I didn't see her again until Boo had lost 3 pounds, was severely dehydrated" Crashing, in other words. His hemocrit at that time was 21.23 per the vet's response here, and glucose 240. Mind you none of these but the BUN was made available to me at this visit and this is where I started keeping records and writing everything down.
He suggested euthanizing then had the gall to say he suggested lowering the fluids. I cleared that up quick by saying no, My support site told me it was way too much and HAD been telling me that. So I told HIM that, he did not tell ME that. His first suggestion was euthanasia. He says I "settled" on fluid treatments. I told the Board one of the first treatments for CRF is fluids, so I did not "settle".
The T4 test comes in here, and it might go well to mention that he was given a T4 and Cholesterol check back in 2009 and these results were not made available to me nor did I know he had these tests taken. His cholesterol seemed a bit high but his T4 was fine. Here it says:
"She brought Boo in to have a T4 blood test run. She did not want to see a doctor. Boo was eating a lot and was restless; she thought he might be hypothyroid."(Yes, HYPOthyroid) She was told cats rarely become hypothyroid, but she wanted the test run anyway."
I corrected in here in my response by saying no, I asked for the T4 because I was concerned about HYPERthyroidism (underlined) and then said (Vet has written HYPOthyroid) Then included the information from Tanya's CRF site about HyperT and how it goes hand in hand with CRF and blood pressure issues.
That test DID come back normal.
Then we get to the overhydration crisis he had, where he suggested euthanasia and I told him we're lowering the fluids NOW. He said fine and to try it. Two days later Boo bounced back and was almost his normal self. I wanted to kick that vet in his shins.
It's really hilarious, guys. The farther you read the farther he digs himself a hole. I showed him the X-ray given to me by my new vet and he claims it was a "Rather dark" radiograph.
In response I said "It was a "rather dark" radiograph because he was pointing at a poorly lit ceiling light, not attaching it to a proper light box to light it up the way radiographs were meant to be lit up, as my mother can attest to as she was with me and witnessed this." Can you believe the stupidity here?
He claims I didn't say anything about having the new vet's records with me, I did. I cleared that up as well and also mentioned my mother as a witness. He claims he would have biopsied and cultured the bone had I taken his offer to re-examine Boo. I laughed when I read that and nearly wrote "If my new vet saw no need to culture and biopsy the bone, why did he?" But instead wrote, "Why did my new vet have such an easy time cleaning and repairing this poorly done extraction site and removal of the sheared incisors if all of this is true? And his mouth healed extremely quickly and well? And the foul odor was gone? And his spirits picked up immediately? And his appetite skyrocketed and he returned almost to his old self?" That is a loose transcription.
And THEN: "I also noted the new vet's recommendation to raise the fluid rate." What? I scrambled through the records. Nothing of the sort. Flat out incorrect. She recommended to continue at 100mL like we had been doing.
I also pointed out the huge sticker on the front of the chart from the old vet, which the old vet was so happy to provide a picture of to the Board, that tells everyone who can see it that I had CareCredit for a limit of $500. I don't know about anyone else, but I didn't think that was anyone's business, and that tells me that my vet kept a close eye on how much I had available to spend and how much they could or could not do. I did have half the good sense to say, "If my financial situation had any bearing on the level of care given to my Boo, I am beyond horrified and saddened."
Also he wanted to do that culture and biopsy, I said "Why would I let him do anything else to my cat requiring sedation, which this vet uses Ketamine and valium, on a renal impaired cat?"
Then at the end he mentions "Our Treatment Authorization Form states no guarantee has been made as to a cure and that the client is responsible for the cost of surgical complications." In response I said: "This was not a complication, and if it were a complication I would have or should have been notified of it. This was simply negligence on the part of the veterinarian."
Has the nerve to say he realizes I love Boo very much (At this time he was unaware of Boo's passing) and hopes he does well with any future care. BLAH!
The biggest thing that hurt me in all this was seeing the test results that he provided (Which I requested and never got at the end of our seeing him the last time, I got a print out of the things I bought there, not any test results) and seeing that his numbers were elevated for nearly a year before he crashed. I made it clear that keeping those numbers from me cost my cat his life, most likely, and his screwing up this extraction site severely cut the chances that Boo would have survived any longer than he did. If I had been notified of those numbers when they found them, we could have started some sort of treatment or at least been aware of what was going on. But no. It was basically too late.
I am so angry, and grief-stricken wondering how I could let someone who calls themselves a pet lover do this to my animal. Thinking about how Boo acted when we went there, how panicked and angry he got just being there. It should have been red flags to me. He acted happy at the new vets. He liked the people there. He never flipped out on anyone. I should have seen it and it hurts me so badly.
I just wanted to update with this before I send it off and see what happens next. Next I believe it goes to the Committee of Reviews. After that I am not sure. I am also thinking that the old vet's insurance company is waiting on my reply to see exactly how bad of a spot they are in.
I don't know. This is a loosely, quickly typed version of what I am putting in the mail. I am thinking of starting a site to document all of it but am not sure about that yet.
Thank you all for all of your love and care and support. Without you we wouldn't have made it as far as we did with Boo. Thank you so much
Gosh, I'm so sorry that all of this is now making the grieving process even harder for you. If I knew how to attach one of the hugs things here, I would)
I'm wondering if you can use any of the posts from this site (where you were telling us what was happening play by play) to aid you in submitting your paperwork to help prove your case? (Don't know the legalities of that)
I'm wondering if you can use any of the posts from this site (where you were telling us what was happening play by play) to aid you in submitting your paperwork to help prove your case? (Don't know the legalities of that)
- Thread Starter Thread Starter
- #12
Yes, I'm sure I could do that. There should be nothing wrong with that. I don't know if that'd be a better thing to use for small claims (If it comes to that) or for the Vet Med Board, because they want receipts, paperwork and information from vets. I've already caught him in several lies because my mother was a witness to it standing right there, and he had no witness with him. He also only provided one of the test results from April on a sheet of paper, copied, which made no sense. I will look through my posts and print them out, though. Thanks for the idea
And I knew it was going to make it harder, but I didn't realize I'd be finding out information I was never told, like his BUN levels...
And I knew it was going to make it harder, but I didn't realize I'd be finding out information I was never told, like his BUN levels...
