Hyperesthesia Kitty

[Alldara]

A Alldara I took a look at the ingredients and no phenols... sigh. Sounds weird looking for toxins and being upset by not finding any haha. Thanks for suggesting that though. For reference, we use Cedarcide sprays. This is their list of ingredients View our Pet Safe Bug Control Ingredients | Cedarcide. It works pretty well for us. We get pretty bad mosquitoes here in the summertime and I am highly allergic to their bites. It is one of the few things that actually helps me without bringing in deet.

Phenols won't be listed separately. They naturally occur in woods. It's part of the wood oil. Pinesol doesn't list the phenols either.

Woods have to be specifically treated to remove phenols, or it's safe to assume there is some. This is why its important to use wood based cat litter rather than rabbit or horse litters. The latter isn't treated to remove the phenols.

 

[Furballsmom]

One last thought from me - Can you board him somewhere for a while and see if his behavior changes?

 

[stephanie junca]

If seizures are part of the problem and controlling the itch does not control them, then medication for seizures should be used (phenobarbital is the most common feline choice, but other medications are available as well).

This sentence is from the second article that A Alldara cited and I had wondered if the use of anti-seizure meds had been discussed with you. Keppra is another one which is commonly used.

It's interesting you mention this as I was just able to speak to the vet. She brought up Phenobarbital as our next course of action now. Our dog, who is pictured above, actually has epilepsy and we use Phenobarbital to help with that. It has proven to be a great drug for him reducing his seizure activity down to once or twice a year from his previous 5-6 a month. We also changed his diet. These two may have more in common than we thought being orange boys and all. Thanks for pointing that out!

 

[stephanie junca]

Phenols won't be listed separately. They naturally occur in woods. It's part of the wood oil. Pinesol doesn't list the phenols either.

Woods have to be specifically treated to remove phenols, or it's safe to assume there is some. This is why its important to use wood based cat litter rather than rabbit or horse litters. The latter isn't treated to remove the phenols.

Oh ok, I didn't realize that. I looked it up on their site and found this: Find Out if Cedar Oil is Toxic to Cats | Cedarcide. This is their claim of course, but it doesn't hurt to be cautious. We can try something different instead of Cedarcide as well to see if it makes a difference.

 

[Joxer]

A Alldara I took a look at the ingredients and no phenols... sigh. Sounds weird looking for toxins and being upset by not finding any haha. Thanks for suggesting that though. For reference, we use Cedarcide sprays. This is their list of ingredients View our Pet Safe Bug Control Ingredients | Cedarcide. It works pretty well for us. We get pretty bad mosquitoes here in the summertime and I am highly allergic to their bites. It is one of the few things that actually helps me without bringing in deet.

The phenols would be in the the cedarwood oil itself, so not listed as separate ingredients:

Cedarwood Oil and Cats: A Guide to Safe and Effective Use - Fluffy Tamer

Unlocking the Secrets of Cedarwood Oil for Cat Owners: A Guide to Safe and Effective Use

fluffytamer.com

It may be a long shot, but you could try discontinuing that and watching to see if Lugosi's tail biting stopped.

Lindsey attacked her tail as well, when we were staying at the pyrethroid-sprayed rental house. She would be lying down, very calm, then suddenly the muscles in her back would start "rippling" -- I could see this even through her long Maine Coon fur -- and she would jump up, dash around -- sometimes in circles -- then snap at her tail. I read about feline hyperesthesia, but nothing I found hinted at what might actually cause it.

It sounds like you've had Lugosi for two winters, and he didn't start attacking his tail until the second (current) winter. So it sounds like this is more than a seasonal change (my other cat, Casper, gets really irritable each fall when it starts getting too cold for him to go outside). Is anything new in Lugosi's environment as of this November?

One other thing that comes to mind, if there is a seasonal component, is that if it gets down to 20 degrees where you live, then indoor humidity probably gets very low. Low humidity can lead to itchy skin if you don't run humidifiers. On the other hand, if you run ultrasonic humidifiers (as opposed to evaporative humidifiers), there is some chance that a cat might be able to hear the very high frequency sound they produce, especially if the humidifier is slightly "out of tune". So if you run any of those, you could try turning them off and seeing if that calms Lugosi.

The last thing that's easy to try is turning off any of those plug-in scented oil dispensers made by Glade, etc. Ditto for scented candles, potpourri, and so forth. You can also switch to unscented laundry detergent and stop using fabric softener, at least on fabrics that Lugosi is likely to spend time with.

If none of these or similar ideas does the trick, you can try dietary changes, as others have suggested. But an environmental factor, if responsible for Lugosi's condition, would probably be easier to change.

 

[stephanie junca]

One last thought from me - Can you board him somewhere for a while and see if his behavior changes?

This might be a good way of trial and error for him.

His previous living situations weren't the best as he was moved around a lot as a young kitten and then was at a foster home for half of his life (he is 3 now by the way) where we firsthand saw him get into cat fights for food. When we did a kitty meet and greet with him and saw this, I knew that I needed to take this poor kitty out of this situation even if he wasn't the friendliest or cuddliest kitty in the bunch. He was getting picked on, and I truly wonder if his previous life has brought him to these behavioral issues.

All that to say, we have been hesitant in boarding him or moving him around unnecessarily because of the previous experiences he had. But it may be worth a try. His vet has boarding options that are affordable and they know his needs well, so it might be something to try out.

 

[Eurocat]

Hi again
Just a few thoughts off the top of my head.
He‘s on quite a lot of medications which in themselves can cause issues and have side effects.
Have you ever thought of completely taking him off the fluoextine? (Of course gradually in discourse with your vet?)
If - just if - he was overgrooming with his previous humans due to various psychological issues, with you he was in a different environment and settled down.
Prozac itself can cause nasty side effects: „ Serious/severe side effects include seizures, aggression, and excessive/persistent vomiting. In cats, behavior changes such as anxiety, irritability, lack of appetite, diarrhea, and changes in sleep and bathroom use.“ If he tends to overgroom if he‘s anxious, then maybe prozac was triggering more anxiety?
On top of that he then got the next medications when he got sick - antibiotics and steroids. I don’t know which antibiotic he was on, but amoxillin is known to increase the frequency of developing polyneuropathy which can - among other things - cause pain, burning, tingling, or abnormal feeling in any area of the body (neuralgia).
Again this could be another trigger factor for his pain reactions.
My thoughts are really looking into which medications could possibly be adding to the problem by causing side effects (which are then treated by more medications to treat the next side effects) before he is put on even more medications. Or even - of course under veterinary supervision - stopping anything you think he could possibly do without and then see what happens.
As I said - I‘m just writing what‘s going through my mind. Whereas of course medications absolutely have their justification, I’ve seen so much overmedication of both animals and people where the initial cause or issue has changed yet the medications have continued. In some cases the potential and hoped for treatment or cure can become the cause.

 

[stephanie junca]

J Joxer it does get even colder than 20 here. We have winters sometimes where there are days or weeks in the negatives during the day. So far not the case this winter but it's only the beginning. It can get pretty dry in our house but not so much so far as we have had a lot of moisture outside.

Nothing has changed environmentally since November. The only change was that he and his sister got sick. It was weird though because his sister got sick first at the end of October and then a few weeks later Lugosi started attacking his tail before he started showing signs that he had caught the illness as well. The vet and I assumed that once his sickness went away that his behavior would improve but that did not occur.

 

[stephanie junca]

Eurocat Thanks for the brainstorming ideas! We saw his self-attacking behavior before his sickness really came about. I will list out the course of events in his health and meds prescribed.

His foster home had begun to notice him overgrooming so their vet put him on Fluoxetine and then he was weaned off for a short period of time as he had stopped overgrooming. Then a few months later he was put back on again as he began to overgroom.

When we brought him home, he had a ton of bald patches all over his belly, arms, legs and chest. I think it took about 3 months for him to stop doing that in our home but as mentioned we kept him on Fluoxetine.

In March of 2023, we had a lot of house work being done and the contractors made a lot of dust in our home as can happen with renovations. Lugosi ended up with coughing and sneezing fits. The vet put him on Claritin and we even discussed doing nebulizer treatments for him. But with steroids and antibiotics, he recovered at that time. At that point, he did not show signs of the self-mutilation that we see now even though it was a similar situation of illness and drugs prescribed.

From then on until November, he was doing great. Healthy, playing normally, eating normally, snuggling his sister and his favorite doggie.

At the end of October our other kitty, Luna, got sick. We had her on antibiotics and steroids for a few weeks until she recovered. Then shortly after, Lugosi started attacking himself at the most random moments. In the middle of the night in hallways, by the back door, in his little food nook area, in the basement, on our bed, etc. We could not pinpoint an area that brought it out of him. Then a few days later he started having the same symptoms that Luna had: coughing, sneezing and upset stomach. His cough however was markedly worse than Luna’s though and we seriously wondered if he had kitty covid as that is possible. We took him in and they prescribed him the antibiotics (doxycycline) and steroids before doing gabapentin to see if he improved with these meds. After a week, and him having probably the most terrifying self-mutilation episode I had seen (blood was all over our bathroom and I had to put him in his carrier with blankets and towels to restrict him) I took him back to the vet again. His tail was in such bad shape. We put him on gabapentin. It initially caused sedation and calmed him but he very soon after started self-attacking again. We decided to give the gabapentin a shot for a whole month as I read it can take two weeks to see the full effect, but now here we are trying to figure out what's going on with our poor Lugosi and how we can help him.

One thing I didn't mention before, our vet tried to do xrays on him to make sure he had no spinal or tail injuries but he was so aggressive that they could not control him at the time. We are going to proceed with xrays next week but sedate him more of course so that he can be handled. If there is nothing noticeable there, then we will proceed with Phenobarbital. She also mentioned trying Clomipramine. Not together of course. We are going to take him off of Gabapentin though and then potentially add on one or the other and possibly wean him off of Fluoxetine. She said at this point it is trial and error with drugs to see what works.

 

[Furballsmom]

One thing I didn't mention before, our vet tried to do xrays on him to make sure he had no spinal or tail injuries but he was so aggressive that they could not control him at the time.

You read my mind

 

[Alldara]

Well we are rooting for you both! Let us know how things go and we can all help brainstorm some more if needed.

 

[stephanie junca]

Well we are rooting for you both! Let us know how things go and we can all help brainstorm some more if needed.

Thank you !

 

[silent meowlook]

I would stop the Revolution Plus and switch to the original Revolution. There have been reports of the Revolution Plus causing neurological issues in cats.

If he has been diagnosed with environmental allergies, your best bet would be to see a board certified dermatologist. There are injections like the allergy injections people get that could help him.

With the Prozac you have to be careful adding other medications because some can cause sick serotonin syndrome. So always check a drug interaction checker like .drugs.com

 

[silent meowlook]

Drug Interaction Report: Claritin, gabapentin, Prozac

I know it’s for humans, but interactions would be similar.
Both Prozac and Gabapentin need to be weaned off, not abruptly discontinued.

 

[stephanie junca]

Thanks again for all of the suggestions and ideas to research!

We may have discovered a few things in the past two days. First of all, I noticed that an area where he tended to have self-attacking episodes tended to happen by our back door pretty regularly which made me think previously that it was due to him wanting to go outside. Yesterday, I was outside with my dogs playing when I see Lugosi standing inside by the back door. I watched him for a while to see if he would have an episode and nothing happened. In fact, he just sat and watched us for a while and then jumped up to a little bench I have there for the kitties to lounge on while looking out the door. He was just calmly grooming his face and then settled in. I found that very interesting!

The main discovery was that I already had switched them to a limited ingredient kibble but was having a hard time finding a good limited ingredient wet food that had the same consistency as his beloved Friskies. Tuesday this week, while grocery shopping, I happened to come upon a food I had never seen before. "I and love and you: XOXOs". The ingredients looked good and the consistency looked similar to the Friskies he likes ("Prime Filets"... no pate!). We started feeding him this wet food that night. Yesterday was a pretty bad day for him unfortunately... having about 5 or 6 episodes... but today so far he has just had one episode. Most of the day he lounged on the cat tree in the sun and is now laying on our bed. He even seemed interested in this DIY Interactive toy that I made him and Luna for xmas.

Cross your paws that it is relating to a gluten allergy and that it will only get better from here!

 

[Furballsmom]

nothing happened. In fact, he just sat and watched us for a while and then jumped up to a little bench I have there for the kitties to lounge on while looking out the door. He was just calmly grooming his face and then settled in.

Most of the day he lounged on the cat tree in the sun and is now laying on our bed. He even seemed interested in this DIY Interactive toy that I made him and Luna for xmas.

Oh, thank goodness, and what an enormous gift for this baby

 

[Alldara]

Thanks again for all of the suggestions and ideas to research!

We may have discovered a few things in the past two days. First of all, I noticed that an area where he tended to have self-attacking episodes tended to happen by our back door pretty regularly which made me think previously that it was due to him wanting to go outside. Yesterday, I was outside with my dogs playing when I see Lugosi standing inside by the back door. I watched him for a while to see if he would have an episode and nothing happened. In fact, he just sat and watched us for a while and then jumped up to a little bench I have there for the kitties to lounge on while looking out the door. He was just calmly grooming his face and then settled in. I found that very interesting!

The main discovery was that I already had switched them to a limited ingredient kibble but was having a hard time finding a good limited ingredient wet food that had the same consistency as his beloved Friskies. Tuesday this week, while grocery shopping, I happened to come upon a food I had never seen before. "I and love and you: XOXOs". The ingredients looked good and the consistency looked similar to the Friskies he likes ("Prime Filets"... no pate!). We started feeding him this wet food that night. Yesterday was a pretty bad day for him unfortunately... having about 5 or 6 episodes... but today so far he has just had one episode. Most of the day he lounged on the cat tree in the sun and is now laying on our bed. He even seemed interested in this DIY Interactive toy that I made him and Luna for xmas.

Cross your paws that it is relating to a gluten allergy and that it will only get better from here!

All paws crossed here!

 

[stephanie junca]

Well, unfortunately, yesterday was just a good day. Today has turned out to be probably one of the worst for him. I ended up having to put an even tighter shirt on him that is like a thunder shirt so he would stop self-mutilating. He has been just growling and hissing at himself with his tail swooshing back and forth for the past half hour or more just now. He has probably had around 6 episodes like this today. I am at such a loss of what to do, home alone with the fur kids, all the other pets are just terrified. I feel very emotional right now (pregnant) and am really worried that he is just never going to be ok.

 

[Alldara]

Is there any difference between yesterday and today that you can note? Not in terms of his symptoms but in terms of things that have happened.

 

[stephanie junca]

Is there any difference between yesterday and today that you can note? Not in terms of his symptoms but in terms of things that have happened.

Nothing we could think of. My husband and I mostly work from home and we were both here during the day on Friday and then he left in the afternoon for his usual game night with his buddies. My husband was gone Thursday part of the day but returned in the afternoon. I wondered if there was anything there but Lugosi barely had any episodes on Thursday and then Friday it was an all day thing.

Friday at lunchtime we put away our Christmas decore and my husband vacuumed. We know Lugosi hates the vacuum so he usually just runs and hides in the basement which he did. No episode at that point but about 2 hours later he started up his growling, hissing, and self-mutilation when we were both back at our computers working.

The other pets were doing their usual things. Our other pets are probably the most well-behaved dogs and cat. I didn't see anything of note there. No change in their routine.

We didn't do anything different with his food schedule either.

Also, on Wednesday he had a bad day having about 5 or 6 episodes and it was pretty much the same day as Thursday.

We didn't spray anything new. I was trying to think back to the last time I used that Cedarcide and it was in August I believe. That stuff is supposed to be resprayed every month but we fell off the schedule there and then it got cold.

Just really confused