How To Get My Cat To Eat Enough For Insulin?? Food/treat Issues

[ericy5150]

My cat Tigger was just diagnosed w diabetes.I have deducted over the last few days that he stopped eating the Nutro dry food I leave out for all 6 of my babies and has been exclusively eating from the small piles of Whiskas Temptations treats I would leave here and there when I left for work. I made the huge error of letting all my cats eat temptations treats and they are addicted. Plus Tigger is addicted to Fancy Feast cheap food. I need to give him insulin but he wont eat good stuff. Do I just cut off the treats at once because they are looking at me like what did we do wrong and its breaking my heart. How do I get Tigger to eat for insulin??? He as NEVER eaten a full can of food or a "full" meal...he licked the gravy only and then ate treats throughout the day

I'm so scared..... he HAS to get this insulin. My second time going to give the injection it went through the scruff and poked me in the thumb...had to discard needle and do again....I'm so bad at this. :'(

 

[Sonatine]

Hang in there! Did your vet give you any coaching on how to do the injections? I admittedly only have experience with dogs in this regard, so if another member wants to chime in, maybe listen to them (though a quick google search suggests that this method still works on cats). I always gave the shots by gently pinching the scruff and pulling it up until a triangular(ish) "pocket" formed. I'd usually inject the needle facing the head, but occasionally reversed it. Keep fingers clear, of course; insulin is one of those things you really don't want to shoot yourself with if you're not a diabetic. Then I'd gently rub the skin afterwards, to make sure the insulin didn't just form a pocket at the injection site. If you've already been told/shown all of this, then I apologize! Just trying to help.

Food is trickier, and it seems like they never want to eat when they really need to. I'm not sure that free feeding dry treats is going to work for this. If he's been grazing on those all day, he's not gonna want a big meal before his shot; they're also super carby, which isn't great for a diabetic cat. I'd cut the treats, honestly. They'll beg, plead, and then forget. The only exception I'd make is if you think his blood sugar is too low; in that case, a few carby treats can raise it in a pinch, but that's not the only way to treat hypoglycemia, so do whatever your vet has said is best in those cases.

If you want to offer treats, try some Pure Bites (they're pretty much just freeze dried chicken: healthy and also very appealing to cats). Don't free feed these; use them as rewards (in Tigger's case, using them as a reward after his insulin could make the whole process a lot less unpleasant).

What sorts of food are you trying to give him for his meal? Having a set mealtime and not free feeding treats will help, but you still have to feed him something he likes that is also good for him. Fancy Feast isn't the worst thing; if you can get him to eat a good serving of that right before his insulin, that's a great start. Ideally, a food that is high in protein while also as low in carbs as possible would be best, but for now focus on getting him to eat before his shot.

Those freeze-dried chicken treats I mentioned before can help here: crumble them on his food; or use something else that he likes to eat that isn't too carby. Some members have mentioned that their cats like bonito flakes in other threads. Do whatever you can to make that meal special to ensure he won't refuse it. Don't be afraid to try new things! Maybe a different texture (mashing the food/adding water, for example) would work. Offer him a few different wet foods and see if there's one he really likes, once he's not full from Temptations. Separating him from the other cats for his food might also help; you probably don't want them underfoot when you're trying to give him a shot anyway.

Sorry for the super long post, but hopefully some of this helps, or other, more experienced members can chime in.

 

[LTS3]

Take a deep breath Please join the FelineDiabetes.com message board to get help and advice from experienced diabetic cat members.

Fancy Feast Classic / Gourmet pate foods are just fine for your diabetic cat Here's the list of which ones: Wheat gluten free, low carbohydrate Wet Food No gravy / sauce / broth type food if you can. Those are too high in carbs for a diabetic but keep a few cans on hand to use just in case your cat becomes hypgolycemic.

Treats are ok but not Tempations or other big name brands like that. Freeze dried 100% meat or fish treats are great and healthy. Fancy Feast has those little pouches of meat treats now but there are other brands that come in larger bags (ie more treats) for not much more money such as PureBites.

What insulin is your cat ok? With some insulins as long as you know your cat will eat, it's fine if he doesn't eat a full meal within a few minutes of getting insulin.

You do need to keep the diabetic cat out of the Nutro dry food and whatever else the other cats eat. Even a few bites of a no-no food can cause blood glucose levels to skyrocket and make it much harder to manage the diabetes.

When you inject, point the needle straight down into the pulled up skin to minimize accidentally poking yourself. Also, if you are using U100 insulin syringes, you can use the really short 5/16 inch needles instead of longer 1/2 inch or 1 inch needles. These are the ones I used when I had a diabetic cat: BD Ultra-Fine Half Unit Insulin Syringes 31G 3/10cc 6mm 100ct

If you are using U40 insulin, there is a way to use U100 insulin syringes but only by following a conversion chart. I don't think U40 insulin syringes are available in short needle lengths. The FDMB board can give you more info on this.

 

[ericy5150]

Take a deep breath Please join the FelineDiabetes.com message board to get help and advice from experienced diabetic cat members.

Fancy Feast Classic / Gourmet pate foods are just fine for your diabetic cat Here's the list of which ones: Wheat gluten free, low carbohydrate Wet Food No gravy / sauce / broth type food if you can. Those are too high in carbs for a diabetic but keep a few cans on hand to use just in case your cat becomes hypgolycemic.

Treats are ok but not Tempations or other big name brands like that. Freeze dried 100% meat or fish treats are great and healthy. Fancy Feast has those little pouches of meat treats now but there are other brands that come in larger bags (ie more treats) for not much more money such as PureBites.

What insulin is your cat ok? With some insulins as long as you know your cat will eat, it's fine if he doesn't eat a full meal within a few minutes of getting insulin.

You do need to keep the diabetic cat out of the Nutro dry food and whatever else the other cats eat. Even a few bites of a no-no food can cause blood glucose levels to skyrocket and make it much harder to manage the diabetes.

When you inject, point the needle straight down into the pulled up skin to minimize accidentally poking yourself. Also, if you are using U100 insulin syringes, you can use the really short 5/16 inch needles instead of longer 1/2 inch or 1 inch needles. These are the ones I used when I had a diabetic cat: BD Ultra-Fine Half Unit Insulin Syringes 31G 3/10cc 6mm 100ct

If you are using U40 insulin, there is a way to use U100 insulin syringes but only by following a conversion chart. I don't think U40 insulin syringes are available in short needle lengths. The FDMB board can give you more info on this.

I found out a revelation.....Tiggers not eating dry food like the rest....he used to..in the years I left temptation treats out, he started only eating those....so by not putting any down these last two days to him ive taken away his 'food' he hasnt hardly eaten.
Yesterday and today when I sat with him and pet him as he purred he started a dry cough for a few moments. Im really scared.

 

[Sonatine]

At this point you've got to get some food in him. Hopefully he'll eat if he is hungry even if the Temptations are taken away. If wet food and freeze dried chicken fail, you could try plain boiled chicken, or even canned chicken or tuna. Those are NOT nutritionally complete, so you'll have to get him eating something else in the long term, but they can buy you some time. I hate to even suggest it for a diabetic cat, but are there any other dry foods he'll eat? Carby dry food is a terrible idea as a long term diabetic diet (again, we're just trying to buy time so you can find something more suitable), but he's got to eat something soon or he could have liver problems as well as elevated blood sugar. I know that sounds really dire, but try not to panic. He might be less willing to eat if he can sense that you're really upset.

You mentioned taking away the Temptations, but didn't say what you've tried feeding him. What have you offered so far? Knowing that will make it easier for us to make suggestions.

If it's been more than a day since he's eaten anything, I think a vet phone call might be in order. Maybe they can help you with force feeding with a syringe.

 

[LTS3]

General rule of thumb: iffy or no appetite = no insulin injection at all to avoid risking hypoglycemia.

What does your vet recommend to get your cat eating again? Can you buy some freeze dried meat tests and crumble them in top of canned food? Or get some FortiFlora from the vet and sprinkle that over food for the "kitty crack" taste.

Please join the FelineDiabetes.con message board if you haven't already done so. The people there can help you more than people here in TCS. While there are some diabetic cat owners here, very few post about their cat's current treatments and most other members just have no experience with diabetes. The FDMB is a super active board so you often get responses within a few minutes.

The coughing might be asthma or minor throat irritation. Definitely let your vet know about it.

 

[ericy5150]

At this point you've got to get some food in him. Hopefully he'll eat if he is hungry even if the Temptations are taken away. If wet food and freeze dried chicken fail, you could try plain boiled chicken, or even canned chicken or tuna. Those are NOT nutritionally complete, so you'll have to get him eating something else in the long term, but they can buy you some time. I hate to even suggest it for a diabetic cat, but are there any other dry foods he'll eat? Carby dry food is a terrible idea as a long term diabetic diet (again, we're just trying to buy time so you can find something more suitable), but he's got to eat something soon or he could have liver problems as well as elevated blood sugar. I know that sounds really dire, but try not to panic. He might be less willing to eat if he can sense that you're really upset.

You mentioned taking away the Temptations, but didn't say what you've tried feeding him. What have you offered so far? Knowing that will make it easier for us to make suggestions.

If it's been more than a day since he's eaten anything, I think a vet phone call might be in order. Maybe they can help you with force feeding with a syringe.

But isn't jarring to just take away something that was they're basically food for I don't know how long now and they're confused and don't understand it and it shocks them,... When I brought him home from the vet Saturday after the vet gave him his first shot at 2 p.m. he seemed like a new cat AC more like himself, and I picked up some Tiki and other really good canned food and stuff and some Nutro wild which was rated really highly on cat food database and he seemed to eat those up he seem to like him although he still just doesn't dig in and eat soft food he doesn't bite and swallow soft food he licks and licks and licks he never has quote-unquote eaten soft food he just doesn't eat it I don't have one cat that actually eats some soft food and bites it well maybe two... That's why I need to find I think some kind of dry because that's what he's used to chewing on and eating he just doesn't eat soft food I tried pate mixing a little water to try to make it more gravy like but he everything I tried yesterday he turned his nose up for the first time in years probably he went 12 hours without eating I finally had to relent and give him Fancy Feast chicken cheese gravy which is been his thing in the morning for years I gave it to him last night just so I can give him a shot but I'm pulled up gravy 3 or 4 times and he licked and licked and licked till he was done then I gave him the injection which was only my second so I hope I'm doing it right your tips really helped.
This morning I pet him again and he started dry coughing and went downstairs and is wedged between the wall and my exercise bike with not a good look on his face... He's used to grazing during the night and I'm sure he didn't touch the dry Nutro so this is a big withdrawal or something that is going on and I know nothing about this stuff and I guess I'll have to post in the other Forum like you said... sorry for the long post I'm just beside myself right now

 

[Sonatine]

If he'll eat the fancy feast, use that for now. You don't have to make every change all at once. For now, getting him eating a meal consistently before his shot is a good goal, and once you're managing that, you can try some new foods. Maybe try topping it with PureBites, as mentioned before. Those are crunchy since they're freeze dried, but not carby at all. My cat goes nuts for those.

If feeding him dry is what you have to do to get him to eat a meal... well, it's better than him not eating at all, but it's also not something you'll want to do for very long since it'll make his blood sugar harder to manage.

As it is, it sounds like he is eating something besides Temptations, even if it's not as much as we'd like. As long as he is eating, I wouldn't reintroduce the Temptations. He'll be healthier for it.

Last, LTS3 had a very good suggestion with the feline diabetes message board. I've not been there, because the diabetic animals I cared for were someone else's pets (I was petsitting), but I'm sure there's plenty of great information there, too. But still feel free to post here! We'll help as well as we can.

 

[LTS3]

I no longer have a diabetic cat but when I did, the FDMB was a huge source of help and support from newly diagnosed to long after my cat went to the Bridge (not diabetes related).

Your cat must eat so feed whatever he will eat even if it's the most horrible junk filled cat food.
The FDMB can help you with the diet and every other part of managing a diabetic.

How do you feel about the vet and his / her expertise in diabetes? Some vets are old school and aren't up to date on current treatments. Here are two old web pages with info on whether you need a new vet or not:

Questions for your vet - tons of 'em!
Decisions, Decisions...choosing the right vet partner

Take a few minutes to read this: Dear Mom Letter - Pet Health - Cat Health - Pet Supplies It's totally normal to be scared and overwhelmed right now Diabetes is not a death sentence. Many diabetics do very well with insulin and diet. Some cats can even go into remission. There's a bit of a learning curve but once you get the hang of everything, taking care of your diabetic cat is easy

 

[ericy5150]

Yes but the problem is I dont know if licking the gravy is enough for a 1 unit insulin shot. He went back wedged between the excercise bike and wall so I coaxed him out shaking temptations bag and he ate six of them and I gave him his shot.

Ive had to do A LOT of food research and these treats are not the devil people think...they have vitamins, they are only 2 calories per, they have taurine, minerals, potassium, it says 100% nutritionally complete which I know can be an overstatement but would they really put that so blatentlty if it weren't I didnt think companies could do that, like gluten free, they can't put that on the package unless it is. They have 30% protein and when I add up the analysis, they are about 30% carbs, which is less than the "good" (I thought) chicken and rice Nutro I had been giving my cats all these years. Problem is it is meat by products and animal fat, and the wet fancy feast isnt any better, but 15 year old Frank has had them since he was 3 and all he's every had was a thyroid which I got him radiation at 12 yrs old.
I need to find an expert on a hard case like Tigger who has ingrained this diet the last several years and how to gradually switch him over because I think that's my only option

Tigger is on 1 unit of ProZinc every 12 hrs. The Dr said it's more expensive but it's the best there is. I think it lasts and regulates for hours...I don't know if it does all 12 hours since this is only a day old for me

I WANT to get Tigger into remission and get all 6 of my babies on a low carb high protein diet. I'm just at such a loss I feel overwhelmed I need professional help (for the cats).

 

[ericy5150]

I did read something that after insulin started appetite will decrease as they don't feel compelled to eat for sugar or something like that?

OH also, The doctor did say Purina has a 10% carb dry food. Purina DM. AND Dr Elseys (love their litter) just came out with a food "Clean Protein" Virtually no m carbs in the wet food and only 4% carbs in the dry!!

here's what the rep said
"
Eric,
Our carb count on our dry food is 4.96%. I cannot remember the wet food off hand but I know that it is under 5% as well. I have a comparison sheet with some other diabetic foods on the market as well. I will send that to you also. Always better to have more information!
We do have quite a few people who have diabetic cats that eta our food. It works well because it is high in protein and low in carbs, which is excellent for diabetic cats.
In regard to calories, our food has 544kcal/cup, which isn’t bad. An average cat eats around 1/3 -1/2 cup per day, so divided down that’s 181-272 kcals. If you supplement with wet food then you will want to use a little less dry food. I understand that some people leave dry food out all the time, me included. That is okay, as our food is higher in protein and lower in carbs. Cats metabolize protein slower so they feel fuller longer and in turn won’t eat as much as a food that is high in carbs. It also increases their energy level so that will help them lose weight as well. If your vet approves of the food for your diabetic cat, than I would say there is no reason to switch them all to another food.

I hope this all makes sense. I know having a diabetic cat changes things dramatically and you have to look at things that you never thought of before. Please let me know if there is anything else I can do for you, thank you.

Theresa"

Learn More - Dr. Elsey's

 

[ericy5150]

I no longer have a diabetic cat but when I did, the FDMB was a huge source of help and support from newly diagnosed to long after my cat went to the Bridge (not diabetes related).

Your cat must eat so feed whatever he will eat even if it's the most horrible junk filled cat food.
The FDMB can help you with the diet and every other part of managing a diabetic.

How do you feel about the vet and his / her expertise in diabetes? Some vets are old school and aren't up to date on current treatments. Here are two old web pages with info on whether you need a new vet or not:

Questions for your vet - tons of 'em!
Decisions, Decisions...choosing the right vet partner

Take a few minutes to read this: Dear Mom Letter - Pet Health - Cat Health - Pet Supplies It's totally normal to be scared and overwhelmed right now Diabetes is not a death sentence. Many diabetics do very well with insulin and diet. Some cats can even go into remission. There's a bit of a learning curve but once you get the hang of everything, taking care of your diabetic cat is easy

I was recommended to Dr Bower because he wasnt old school like my previous vet Dr Herr. Dr Herr gave one of my cats a depo shot what I cant remember, but Dr Bower refuses to give Depo shots due to the harm they can do to the heart etc as has come to light I guess. He only does liquid Predisolone which has said has been very good in cats. It is working for my Midnights allergies he was licking his fur off
I don't know if Dr Bower has any dietary expertise especially on switching diets which is why I need d diet expert. As we all not ROUTINE is EVERYTHING to cats and they've been on this routine for YEARS....I need to know how to gradually change something thats so ingrained in them AND me.

 

[ericy5150]

Have to go to work now Will keep updated on my phone...thank you all SO much! This is my first real health crisis ever.... I will posit in diabetes forum tonight.

 

[Sonatine]

I know that Temptation treats are not the devil, and I'm not saying they're going to kill you cat (I occasionally give my cat a few). But they are high in carbs and that's not great for a diabetic. Those carbs worry me more than the by-products do. Nutritionally complete means that a food has all the vitamins and minerals a cat needs, but it definitely doesn't mean that the food is healthy. Still, the best food for a cat is a food that the cat will eat. Just do the best you can with getting the insulin into him and switching him to a better food. If that requires a slow transition, then it's your cat, and you know him best. I'd still suggest giving PureBites a try as a wet topper, when you get to that point.

You can always look for a cat-only vet or feline nutritionist. They may be better able to develop a plan for managing Tigger's food and diabetes. It's harder to offer advice from afar, for a cat I've never met! But a specialist who can actually meet your cat and see his condition, weight, bloodwork, etc, will be in a great position to help manage his condition. Definitely do a google search and see if you can find one in your area!

 

[LTS3]

Yes but the problem is I dont know if licking the gravy is enough for a 1 unit insulin shot.

It's not. It's best to withhold giving any insulin for now but speak to your vet and express concerns about your cat's lack of appetite.

Temptations are like giving a Human diabetic a frosting covered sugary cookie as a snack instead of fresh cut veggies. Try giving healthier pure meat treats a try.

Tigger is on 1 unit of ProZinc every 12 hrs. The Dr said it's more expensive but it's the best there is. I think it lasts and regulates for hours...I don't know if it does all 12 hours since this is only a day old for me

I'm not familiar with ProZinc. It's a pet specific insulin. Other insulins that can be used with cats that have a high remission rate are Lantus and Levimir, both are Human insulins bought at any Human pharmacy with a prescription.

Read the stickies at the top of the FDMB Prozinc forum page for in depth info on this insulin: Prozinc / PZI | Feline Diabetes Message Board - FDMB

I WANT to get Tigger into remission and get all 6 of my babies on a low carb high protein diet. I'm just at such a loss I feel overwhelmed I need professional help (for the cats).

Aim to get Tigger's blood glucose levels close to normal levels for now Diabetes is a slow journey for many cats. Some cats can go into remission while others never do. It's not your fault if a cat doesn't go into remission even if you are doing everything right. Some cats have pancreases that just won't produce insulin normally. My diabetic never went into remission but that was ok with me. He was happy and otherwise relatively healthy (also had asthma) and that was all that really mattered

The FDMB can help you with getting all the cats onto the same diet.

I did read something that after insulin started appetite will decrease as they don't feel compelled to eat for sugar or something like that?

Yes, when blood glucose levels are better controlled the excessive hunger and urination and other symptoms start to go away.

The doctor did say Purina has a 10% carb dry food. Purina DM. AND Dr Elseys (love their litter) just came out with a food "Clean Protein" Virtually no m carbs in the wet food and only 4% carbs in the dry!!

Don't listen to the vet. Most vets have very little education in nutrition, especially the connection between disease and diet. The vet who originally created Purina DM no longer recommends it because Purina drastically changed the formula over the years to where it's just pure junk. The carbs are too high for a diabetic as well.

Many diabetic cats are very carb sensitive and even a food that is just a little higher than10% carbs is enough to spike blood glucose levels.

Dr. Elsey's Clean Protein food is new so I can't comment on that. It's probably been discussed in depth on the FDMB if you want to search for that.

I was recommended to Dr Bower because he wasnt old school like my previous vet Dr Herr. Dr Herr gave one of my cats a depo shot what I cant remember, but Dr Bower refuses to give Depo shots due to the harm they can do to the heart etc as has come to light I guess. He only does liquid Predisolone which has said has been very good in cats. It is working for my Midnights allergies he was licking his fur off

Pred is also available as a pill, chewable tablets, and a transdermal gel. A compounding pharmacy can make these for you. Wedgewood Pharmacy is a great place if you don't have a local compounding pharmacy: Prednisolone Medication & Information for Animals, Wedgewood Pet RX, Wedgewood Pet RX

I need to know how to gradually change something thats so ingrained in them AND me.

Patience Any good vet would be willing to listen to a client and their concerns and give a new method a try. Again, the FDMB members can help you work with the vet.

 

[ericy5150]

I found out a revelation.....Tiggers not eating dry food like the rest....he used to..in the years I left temptation treats out, he started only eating those....so by not putting any down these last two days to him ive taken away his 'food' he hasnt hardly eaten.
Yesterday and today when I sat with him and pet him as he purred he started a dry cough for a few moments. Im really scared.

I have tried the freeze dried treats before and went over like a lead balloon. I did buy Purebites chicken and also Shrimp, suprisingly two of my cats ate the shrimp but Tigger did not want any of it, not the Tiki Tuna flakes either. He is wondering why I'm putting all this new stuff under his nose I think and that with two vet trips in 3 days has his whole world turned upside down. It just seems like after a life of carb food anything natural or non carb is not going over....but like i said he did lick the Nutro wild frontier chicken which is high protein, zero carbs, and he licked and maybe bit into the tuna chicken Tiki which has 0 carbs. but that was Saturday evening, and I guess he wanted the old routine come Sunday morning and when he didnt get it, we had problems.... he wouldnt touch either of the things I gave him Saturday....not at all....

 

[ericy5150]

Just posted a loooong intro post to FDMB...... this is so hard...I pray everyone will take me in as I'm on my own, Vegas is a solitary, unfriendly place...I have NO ONE to help me I live alone have limited money and 6 cats who 5 of them are old or getting old .....and of course Tigger with diabetes now

 

[Furballsmom]

Hi! We love you, we can tell you're trying really hard, with a very challenging situation!
Maybe something here might help. The articles aren't long but have lots of info.

No Money For Vet Care? How To Find Help And Save Your Cat's Life

Financial Aid for Pets

How To Get Your Cat To Start Eating Again

Which Foods Are Safe Cat Treats?

Transitioning Your Cat From Kibble To A New Type Of Food (canned, Raw, Or Homemade)

 

[Furballsmom]

I'm concerned about the hiding. Is there any chance you could speak with another vet?

In the meantime here are some topper/enticements that might help, on their own or combined with food. Also, if you heat the food a little - stir it so there aren't any hot spots from the microwave. Or (I think you tried this?) you could heat some water, about a tablespoon, and add that to canned food. A shot glass works to stir it all up.

• Chicken or beef flavored baby food such as Gerber Stage 2 - make sure there is no garlic or onions in the ingredients

• Tuna and/or the juice, a low mercury/low/no sodium brand is called SafeCatch

• Salmon, mackerel

• Sardines (make sure there are no bones)

• boiled cut up chicken or turkey with no seasonings

• canned kitten food any brand - it's usually smelly. See if it's eaten on its own, then maybe mix it in or put on top

• Try mixing in Kitten Milk Replacer - there are recipes on the internet or store bought

• Fish, tuna or BBQ flavored canned wet food (I personally have never seen BBQ flavors, but...)

• Lickable cat treats or pouch treat 'gravy' poured over the food

• kitten glop (recipes are on the internet, look for some with goat milk)
• Bonito flakes
• fortiflora
• fish oil
• green beans, asparagus

• goat milk, or no lactose cow milk
• whole cooked eggs (the white must always be cooked) or raw egg yolk now and then
• broth with no salt and no garlic or onion or seasonings of any kind
• There are also commercial toppers, Applaws is a brand that can work well as a topper
  
• Some good treats would be freeze dried Purebites, Orijen, Meowtinis, Meowables

• There are also lickimats that you could spread types of soft food onto, even yogurt, and even freeze it. Licking something helps a cat to feel better emotionally The LickiMat - Food Puzzles for Cats
• You could brew some chamomile tea (from the little bags - it's safe for cats) for him, a couple teaspoons a couple times a day or so

 

[ericy5150]

I have tried the tiki with sardines and one with mackerel...lead balloons...I just don’t think my babies will ever go for their ancestral food from the wild...they are suburban Americanized junk food eaters, although I tried to find good dry food not like meow mix garbage . Once they’ve tasted pizza they’re not going for kale or beets in human terms.
Your probably not thinking this after seeing the diet...I was ignorant to it..so really was...but I love animals more than people...save for who I can count on one hand...all I see out of people is selfishness and so much cruelty to animals...I always choose animals....My babies are my whole life...my family..their all I have, so I’m more extreme in my feelings for them than most people probably...they’re so strong it gets in the way of clear thinking sometimes...like with food...I wanted whatever made them happy....now the consequences.... but I did get some good stuff for them along with way..