How to cut back on fat?

[otto]

Thank you LCat4, I look forward to hearing what your vet has to say.

 

[otto]

Update: My vet is not concerned about the elevated cholesterol. Her only suggestion is, if it worries me I could try to find a canned food with lower fat for their canned portions.

Mazy's blood glucose was normal.

Her bladder was not full enough to re-check her urine, however we have a bigger worry now, on which I have started a new thread.

http://www.thecatsite.com/t/262245/growth-in-mazy-cats-ear

 

[mschauer]

Update: My vet is not concerned about the elevated cholesterol. Her only suggestion is, if it worries me I could try to find a canned food with lower fat for their canned portions.

Wow, I'm surprised. I thought values that high would be a concern. Good to know. Thanks for the update! 

 

[otto]

Me too. My vet knows what a worrier I am, and knows I will agree to any further testing she deems necessary. So, if she feels nothing needs to be done, considering all the other normal numbers and the obvious excellent (in general) health of both cats, I have to trust her on this.

I will keep trying to find another canned food, lower in fat, to add to their canned portions. I never STOP looking but I have so many "no compromise" ingredients on my list I haven't been able to come up with anything yet.

I am also going to make more of a concentrated effort to increase Jennie's exercise level, since hers is so much higher than Mazy's. I realized a couple nights ago that over the summer I have slacked off a bit with Jennie's exercise regimen, so I am back on that again.

Jennie seems to have adjusted somewhat to the reduced rations. I feel bad for her, getting so little to eat, but I will not have a fat cat!

 

[ldg]

Wow, I'm surprised. I thought values that high would be a concern. Good to know. Thanks for the update! 

From everything I've read, if EVERYTHING ELSE is normal, it's not something to worry about. :dk: Seems it's just something... to keep an eye on. Meaning, recheck blood work in whole more frequently, to ensure catching any potential underlying problem that hasn't yet shown up.

 

[vball91]

      Quote:

From everything I've read, if EVERYTHING ELSE is normal, it's not something to worry about.

Seems it's just something... to keep an eye on. Meaning, recheck blood work in whole more frequently, to ensure catching any potential underlying problem that hasn't yet shown up.

I will keep trying to find another canned food, lower in fat, to add to their canned portions. I never STOP looking but I have so many "no compromise" ingredients on my list I haven't been able to come up with anything yet.

I know you hate Tiki's stupidly long names, and it IS very expensive. However, the two chicken varieties are two of the lowest fat canned foods I have seen. I think 6% and 12% DMB per Dr. Pierson's chart.

 

[otto]

It's not just the names or the price, though I do think the food is ridiculously over priced. Tiki is made in Thailand and every food I have ever fed my cats made in Thailand gives Queen Eva diarrhea. (Petite Cuisine, Weruva and Soulistic)

And their information, on the page where they compare their foods to commercial raw foods, is inaccurate.

They make the claim, for instance, that Rad Cat is (on DMB) 59% protein, 30% fat and 10% carbs. They do not specify which protein. I am looking at a Rad Cat turkey container right now and doing the DMB with my calculator for the Turkey, it is 72 % protein, 24 % fat. The carbs aren't listed on the container, but on the site are listed as 2.06 % DMB

All this comparison IS confusing because on the Rad Cat site, the DMB numbers differ because they are per 100 gr rather than "as fed" .

Hmm...a few more minutes with my calculator and it seems that Tiki averaged out the three Rad Cat proteins as one to put on their comparison list.

See what I mean? That is dishonest, in my opinion. And if they screw around with things that can be easily checked, what else are they lying about?

I don't really trust ANY pet food company much, even the By Nature Organic I am currently using for canned food.

But anyway, I have put Tiki cat in my shopping cart, and taken it back out again before clicking that order button a hundred times.

I just can't seem to ..commit..to trying it. I just have this...mistrust of it, above and beyond my petty objections listed above, which I could ignore if I really thought it would be the best thing for my girls.

The ONE time I did actually go through with the order, I ordered the wrong thing and ended up with a fish variety that is still sitting here waiting to be dropped off at the shelter the next time I drive by there.

.

 

[otto]

In desperation to lower Jennie's fat intake (without adding carbs) I broke down and ordered some Tiki Cat, found a relatively decent sale with free shipping (but it still costs, ounce to ounce, more than Rad Cat). I figured Tiki could be to Jennie's diet the equivalent to what Rad Cat is to Mazy's and Queen Eva's.

I opened the first can this morning. It smells like fish, though there is no fish listed on the ingredients, just unidentified fish oil. The top looks like nice fresh white chicken meat. The middle and bottom are grey mush.

This is the food I paid 53 cents an ounce for? I tried to e mail them, but the form says their e mail box is full or something to that effect. I suspected they were a rip off, now I'm sure of it.

.

 

[mschauer]

Are you still concerned about the fat levels in their diets because of the high cholesterol values? If so are you sure you aren't making yourself crazy needlessly? Your vet wasn't concerned.

This is from Understanding Lab Values  Jean Hofve DVM (Dec 09, 2012) - Kindle eBook  (I can't find an online link to a version that has this quote):

There are other values that may get measured in blood test, such as GGT (oliver), CK or CKT (muscle), cholesterol and triglycerides, that are important in humans, but in most cases are relatively meaningless in cats. 

 

[otto]

No, not the high cholesterol, the weight gain. Jennie is is getting only 3.3 ounces of food a day (canned and raw), and that is barely keeping her at 10 pounds. She is not a large cat and should not weigh more than 9 1/2 pounds, but I just can't cut her back any further.

So I want to cut back on her fat intake. The raw portions are already trimmed as much as possible. The canned food I am using is pretty high in fat (about 27% DMB). I used to give her Weruva, but while it is low in fat the carb % is much too high and that also caused her to gain weight.

So, even though I have a lot of mistrust about Tiki Cat (though I seem in the minority about that judging by the reviews on multiple sites) I was hoping adding it to Jennie's rotation might help control her weight without having to cut her back any further.

I do work daily on keeping her active.

 

[mschauer]

Oh, I see. Yeah, if she is only eating 3.3 oz of food a day I wouldn't cut back any more. That's a challenging situation for sure.

I understand your distrust of Tiki but if it helps keep Jennie's weight under control it would be worth a try. When I was trying to get my foster Mickey to lose weight at one point I was using a combination of Weruva and by Nature to create a low calorie food for him.

I hope the Tiki works for Jennie! 

 

[otto]

Jennie lost 2 ounces last week! I think the scale is making the difference. You wouldn't think such tiny increments would matter, but I guess it does in some cats.

What I mean is the old scale went as low as .05 ounces. Which means (for example) the read out would show .45 ounces of food, right up until I reached .5 ounces. So there may have been just enough times where that .45 was actually .49 to make the difference for her. At 6 servings day that is a potential .24 extra ounces a day. 2 1/2 tenths of an ounce may not sound like much, but for a cat prone to weight gain it can make a difference.

The new scale measures right down to .01. So her servings are much more exact.

I've started her on the Tiki. To start, she is going to get .6 ounces of it a day, replacing .6 ounces of the By Nature organic (which is 27% fat DMB) I froze .3 oz portions for ease of feeding and so I don't have to worry about the can spoiling. Once she is back to 9.8 pounds I may increase the Tiki to a full ounce, without cutting out any more food, won't that be nice for her to be able have another four tenths of an ounce of food a day!

She played more this week than I have been able to get her to do lately, too. Perhaps because it has cooled off.

 

[ldg]

That's great, Gail!

 

[mschauer]

Jennie lost 2 ounces last week!

I think the scale is making the difference. You wouldn't think such tiny increments would matter, but I guess it does in some cats.

Yea!!! 

What I mean is the old scale went as low as .05 ounces. Which means (for example) the read out would show .45 ounces of food, right up until I reached .5 ounces. So there may have been just enough times where that .45 was actually .49 to make the difference for her. At 6 servings day that is a potential .24 extra ounces a day. 2 1/2 tenths of an ounce may not sound like much, but for a cat prone to weight gain it can make a difference.

The new scale measures right down to .01. So her servings are much more exact.

That's why I measure small amounts in grams rather than ounces. 045 oz = 12.8 grams and 0.5 oz = 14.2 grams. That's a difference of 11%.

Of course using a higher resolution scale works too and you don't have to do a unit conversion. 

 

[ldg]

WHAT a good point. I think I'll go back to using the American Weigh scale and keep the Oxo one as a back-up. I've let Chumley get fat, and I really have to be more disciplined about how much food he gets. :anon:

 

[otto]

Mazy has lost some weight since starting with the new scale too, so I have already increased her intake.

Queen Eva has not, but that is because I coax and hover to get her to eat as much as possible. I did try letting her self regulate for a few weeks and her weight dropped quickly, so I am back to following her with her leavings and coaxing her to finish.

She rarely needs any help with her raw portions but several times a week I find myself 'spoon feeding' left over canned portions to her, because she apparently is just too busy to be bothered finishing it on her own. :lol3:

I really like the AW scale but I already got the display wet. It has dried out some but not completely yet. It doesn't weigh accurately it I put it in a plasrtic bag.

I was wondering if I could put some of that LCD screen protective film over the display, like what I have on my camera, what do you think?

 

[ldg]

You can try - I would think that would work? :dk:

Yeah, I don't like that I can't pull it into a plastic bag. That was the main reason I switched to the Oxo scale for all-the-time use. I wonder if saran wrap just placed over the front of it would work....

 

[otto]

To sum up: Jennie had gained almost a pound. Even cutting her back to 3.3 ounces (canned and raw) a day, she stopped gaining, but was not losing. Kicking and screaming in protest, I ordered some Tiki Cat, the chicken formulas, because Tiki is relatively low in fat (the chicken formulas are 12% and 6% DMB) and zero carbs.

There may have been a slight issue with the food scale increments, too, but I think the fat percentage in Jennie's diet is the main issue. She just has a slower metabolism that the other cats.

Well the Tiki cat is doing the job for Jennie. She is finally starting to lose 2 or 3 ounces a week. In fact she only has 1 1/2 ounces to go to be back to her healthy 9 pounds 8 ounces. Then I can increase her quantity a little. I'll be increasing the Tiki cat portions, rather than By Nature Organic or Wild calling (both 27% fat DMB). She has adjusted to 3.3 ounces a day, but I know it's difficult for her, and I want her to be able to have more. I'll go up to 3.6 at first and see how that goes.

The Tiki is outrageously priced for a canned food, not to mention a company that seems very reluctant to be contacted. But I will not have overweight cats, so I had to turn to Tiki in desperation.

I know this is still in the raw forum, but it was the improved nutrition, including fat in the raw diet that caused Jennie's weight gain in the first place.

 

[mschauer]

That's great news! 

I don't know how brands like Tiki and Weruva get their foods so low in calories. I worry what it is they do to the meat to get all that fat out of it!

When an ultra low calorie diet is needed it could be the answer though!

 

[otto]

The Tiki isn't low in calories though, just low in fat (relatively) and zero carbs. But I agree with you, I am not real thrilled with Tiki, but as a small part of Jennie's rotation to reduce her fat intake, I guess it will be okay.

Weruva is low in calories but high in fat and carbs and that potato starch gravy is heavy. I still have a case of Weruva nine livers I was hoping to use for Jennie, but there is so much gravy and so little food, it just isn't feasible for her. I've tried straining out the gravy, but I'm worried all the nutrients are lost that way, too.

So I guess that is just one more food that will make it's way to the shelter or someone in need. I sat down and figured out that over the past 18 months of food trials and transitioning to raw I have given away close to $1000 in canned foods. Before Grain, By Nature 96%, Merrick, Wellness, Castor & Polluck, Nature's Variety Instinct, Weruva, Soulistic, all foods I had stocked up on, but gradually eliminated from their rotation.

$1000 is not an exaggeration or typo, in fact it may even be on the modest side. I don't regret it really, I sent the food to people who really needed it (using the USPS flat rate shipping boxes, so would have to add all the postage into the final tally!) or dropped it off at the shelter when I was going that way.

But I can't afford to do that any more.