how can a poor canned food be better

[micmit]

ive read that even a poor quality can food is

better than dry

but if cats need 30% protein then how can a canned

food with 10% be better?

i was considering switching from dry to wet

but i can really only afford the supermarket cans

but they only have 10% protein

i was wondering if a switch was really better

 

[Kieka]

When looking at a wet food the protein is going to be lower simply because the moisture is higher. Since dry food is dry it has less moisture so it appears to have more protein. In reality what you are seeing is the difference in the ratio on the food and not the actual protein quantity.

Another key point is since wet food is wet it has more animal based protein content than dry food. In dry food some of the listed protein is typically from plant based proteins which cats don't benefit from as much but stay shelf stable in a dry form better than animal proteins. You can also find wet foods with fewer fillers and unneeded items.

Ideally in dry food you want at least 30% protein. Most wet foods will have between 8 and 12% protein. 10% is in the acceptable range. In wet food that range translates into 35-45% usually if you were to remove the moisture content from the equation. A lower protein though in wet food doesn't necessarily mean negative because the moisture in that specific brand could be significantly higher.

The best thing to do is look at actual ingredients. My preference is one or two meats before water or using a broth instead of just water for the moisture.

 

[ginny]

Cats need more than 10% protein since they are obligate carnivores.  I think you are quoting the vet from this website below.  Here's a link to that site in which she gives more info about store brands.  

http://catinfo.org/commercial-cat-foods/

 

[ginny]

It makes you wonder, if 10% is protein, what's the other 90%?  Water yes, but what else?  I worry about the fillers used plus I wonder if all that 10% protein is easily absorbed and assimilated.  The low cost cat foods may use the cheap stuff, plus there are additives like carrageenan, which are not recommended for anyone, people or pet, who has digestive issues.  

 

[mizzely]

It makes you wonder, if 10% is protein, what's the other 90%?  Water yes, but what else?  I worry about the fillers used plus I wonder if all that 10% protein is easily absorbed and assimilated.  The low cost cat foods may use the cheap stuff, plus there are additives like carrageenan, which are not recommended for anyone, people or pet, who has digestive issues.  

Most canned food is usually about 78% moisture, then the rest is protein, fat, and fiber.

For a wet food with 10% protein and 78% moisture, you'd have 45% protein when looking at just the dry matter portion of the food (aka, reducing it to a level comparable to kibble).

Here's more information: https://www.pawdiet.com/articles/dry-matter-basis-calculator-for-pet-food/

 

[micmit]

Most canned food is usually about 78% moisture, then the rest is protein, fat, and fiber.

For a wet food with 10% protein and 78% moisture, you'd have 45% protein when looking at just the dry matter portion of the food (aka, reducing it to a level comparable to kibble).

Here's more information: https://www.pawdiet.com/articles/dry-matter-basis-calculator-for-pet-food/

what figure goes in the top box of the calculator?

 

[micmit]

When looking at a wet food the protein is going to be lower simply because the moisture is higher. Since dry food is dry it has less moisture so it appears to have more protein. In reality what you are seeing is the difference in the ratio on the food and not the actual protein quantity.

Another key point is since wet food is wet it has more animal based protein content than dry food. In dry food some of the listed protein is typically from plant based proteins which cats don't benefit from as much but stay shelf stable in a dry form better than animal proteins. You can also find wet foods with fewer fillers and unneeded items.

Ideally in dry food you want at least 30% protein. Most wet foods will have between 8 and 12% protein. 10% is in the acceptable range. In wet food that range translates into 35-45% usually if you were to remove the moisture content from the equation. A lower protein though in wet food doesn't necessarily mean negative because the moisture in that specific brand could be significantly higher.

The best thing to do is look at actual ingredients. My preference is one or two meats before water or using a broth instead of just water for the moisture.

so one listing turkey, poultry giblets,animal liver, meat by products, poultry by products, fish

then rice and so on

would be good?

 

[mizzely]

what figure goes in the top box of the calculator?

The one you want the dry matter amount for. In my example you'd want to put in the protein value of 10. If you wanted to know fat DMB, you'd put in the fat % from the can.

 

[orange&white]

 
what figure goes in the top box of the calculator?

​Type in the protein % listed on the wet can for the dry matter protein %age.  Then type in the fat % for the dry matter fat %age.

Carbohydrate fillers are required to make kibble; it won't hold together without them.  Canned food doesn't require fillers, so you usually end up with more animal meat and fat in the can...better for the cat.  Plus many cats eating kibble-only do not drink enough water to have proper hydration.

 

[orange&white]

 
so one listing turkey, poultry giblets,animal liver, meat by products, poultry by products, fish

then rice and so on

would be good?

​"By products" are a cheaper ingredient, but at least animal-sourced.  Rice is a filler.  Still that food is better than corn, wheat, soy, peas, carrots and potatoes, because most of the ingredients are animal based.

 

[Kieka]

Cats need more than 10% protein since they are obligate carnivores.  I think you are quoting the vet from this website below.  Here's a link to that site in which she gives more info about store brands.  

http://catinfo.org/commercial-cat-foods/

Nope not quoting it; although I have read it before so it probably influenced me. But I think @Mizzely  explained it a little better. 

 

[micmit]

 
so one listing turkey, poultry giblets,animal liver, meat by products, poultry by products, fish

then rice and so on

would be good?

 
​"By products" are a cheaper ingredient, but at least animal-sourced.  Rice is a filler.  Still that food is better than corn, wheat, soy, peas, carrots and potatoes, because most of the ingredients are animal based.

this is going to make the carb content around 32%

if i subtract the fat and protein from 100

if im doing it right

 

[Kieka]

​"By products" are a cheaper ingredient, but at least animal-sourced.  Rice is a filler.  Still that food is better than corn, wheat, soy, peas, carrots and potatoes, because most of the ingredients are animal based.

I fully disagree. I try to avoid any sort of "by product" in my cats foods; specifically named "by products" are slightly more acceptable then "meat" and "animal" is a definite no go. I am perfectly aware that animals in wild eat many parts of the animals. I also am aware that organs and bones provided nutritional value. By products are cooked down so much and can include animals that were sick or diseased. I would rather stick with a named actual meat that has retained more nutritional value and didn't cook down to the point that it become a by product. I will get something with a "by product" towards the bottom of the ingredients if everything else is good but not in the first 10 because sometimes it just can't be avoided. In general though I stick with identified meats that are not overly processed.

Here is the legal explanation of what each term can and can't include: http://www.aafco.org/Consumers/What-is-in-Pet-Food

I also avoid corn, rice, potatoes and wheat in any food I feed. I don't like peas and carrots but they aren't as bad at causing weight retention.

Here is a really detailed review site with explanations on how they did their review. http://www.reviews.com/cat-food/

 

[orange&white]

32% carbs in a canned cat food is pretty high.  What brand are you looking at?  Your math maybe off (or not).  Can you list the nutrient %'s from the can label, or just link to the manufacturer's product site?

 

[micmit]

 
32% carbs in a canned cat food is pretty high.  What brand are you looking at?  Your math maybe off (or not).  Can you list the nutrient %'s from the can label, or just link to the manufacturer's product site?

pc turkey and giblets dinner

5% fat minimum

78% moisture maximum

10% protein minimum

when i typed them in the calculator then subtract it leaves 32

ya i thot it was high too

if i figured right

 

[Willowy]

By products are cooked down so much and can include animals that were sick or diseased

Just a small addendum---by-product meal is a rendered product and can include 4-D animals (dead, dying, diseased, or down), but "fresh" by-products (as in canned food) are not rendered and so cannot include 4-D animals. One little word makes a difference .

I try to avoid dry foods with by-product meal but I'm OK with by-products in canned food (watch out, though, because some canned foods do have by-product meal for some reason). Given a choice of a food with no by-products but a lot of plant matter, and food with by-products but little plant matter, I'd go with the by-products.

 

[orange&white]

I fully disagree. I try to avoid any sort of "by product" in my cats foods; specifically named "by products" are slightly more acceptable then "meat" and "animal" is a definite no go.

I agree that "by-products" are not desirable, but the topic is the question (rephrased), "How can cheap canned food be better than quality dry food?"

So by-products are common in cheap canned food, and still arguably better than feeding kibble.

Even though the canned food currently in question has by-products, the top three ingredients are good, named meats, "turkey, poultry giblets, animal liver​".  On a tight budget, I'd buy it before buying kibble.

 

[Willowy]

pc turkey and giblets dinner
5% fat minimum
78% moisture maximum
10% protein minimum

when i typed them in the calculator then subtract it leaves 32
ya i thot it was high too
if i figured right

There should be some other categories on the label too. Like ash and fiber. Try putting those in.

Here's a carb calculator that I think is easier to use:

http://scheyderweb.com/cats/catfood.html

 

[micmit]

but also it does list the fat and protein amounts as minimums

maybe making the carbs lower than the 32

so i can hope it is actually higher or try something different

 

[orange&white]

 
pc turkey and giblets dinner

5% fat minimum

78% moisture maximum

10% protein minimum

when i typed them in the calculator then subtract it leaves 32

ya i thot it was high too

if i figured right

​You are correct.  It is 68.18 protein and fat, which leaves almost 32% carbs (from rice).  I keep shopping for something else.  There are a lot of inexpensive grain and vegetable-free canned choices...or at least lower carbs than that one.