Help.. thinking of getting Neka declawed and I don't want to, but don't know what else to do...

[cat person]

 I don't want to declaw her... she's like my kid... in fact I sometimes refer to her as my daughter (as I'm pretty certain at this point I can't have kids). 

Declawing = maiming her essentially, in my mind at least. 

She allows me to trim her nails for the most part, maybe I'll just have to do it several times weekly. 

You will need to do that at least twice a week, forever. The first time you might want to let the vet trim them down VERY SHORT! Then, you just keep them that short.

Soft claws does NOT work at all. 

I agree

.

Also I would never purposely yell at or hit/tap my cat. When she has hurt me in the past I say somewhat loudly Ouch! and make a little show of it and then she just stares at me and quits doing what she was doing. But that doesn't work when she's kneading my face because I don't want her to stop kneading entirely, I just want her to do it somewhere else on me... 

I wonder if a nail file would work at making her claws less ragged... then again a) she'd have to let me do that to all of her claws and b) as soon as she sharped her claws on the scratching post it would be all for naught...

Does anyone have any NEW suggestions? 

Yes, but is the only problem you have is her hurting you when kneading you?

Please note, my responses are in red front.

...snip....
What do you use to clip her nails? Human nail clippers seem to leave raggedy edges, rounded cat nail clippers seem to leave them cleaner.

Please note, my responses are in red font.

I have also noticed that older cats will sometimes just put their paw on an unruly younger cat's head. . .not swatting them, just placing it there, maybe pushing away a little. Usually accompanied by a hiss. I've tried this with varying success. Might help.

In general, Servals are "hissy" cats. They unlike domestic cats, have many different hisses. They often hiss when happy and or playful. When my pure domestics, hiss at my F3, that only makes him more excited.

This is going to sound very odd but I don't want to tap at or hiss at my cat... 

That is very very much your right! I am just curious why?

So far I've done cat things, that cat's would do favorably. Such as touching my nose to her nose, then she usually keeps brushing across my face. 

Putting my forehead to her forehead and rubbing a little.

Pet her often.

I'll meow at her and she meow's back and it's a little meow fest for a bit, but she's usually very quiet. 

I allow her to lick my hands, arms, and forehead. 

She allows me to pet her stomach, belly whenever I want, she has never hissed or tried to get away from me when I do this she very much enjoy's it.

She flops down wherever I am for attention. 

Those are all great behaviors she exhibits towards you. You two CLEARLY, have a great relationship, congratulations.

Essentially right now she trusts me COMPLETELY. 

I agree

.

I'm afraid that I started tapping at her or hissing at her that would not be to either of our benefit. Granted she didn't get all mad at me when I used the spray bottle she was more wary of that, then she was of me. But if I hissed at her to try to coach her that way, couldn't that potentially make her a little wary of me? I LOVE her trusting me 100%, I don't want to lose that. 

Let me TRY and explain this CORRECTLY, the Savannah breed when properly socialized (which yours sounds like it was) is very adaptable. They do not spook easy. Not even when they should

. Your cat is an F5 correct? Hissing at her will do one of two things. One is "back her down" like a domestic. Or it may make her more excited, like my F3. Either way, I do not see your relationship being harmed.

For the record at this point I will not be declawing my cat, you guys can quit commenting on that part, now I just want suggestions on how I can redirect her... 

What do you want her redirected from and to? I can work from there, I think.

Please note, my responses are in red.
 

 your baby needs a playmate 

In my experience, Savannah do better with a friend. I am very much looking forward to getting my Loki a "like friend"

. I am sure my domestics will be very happy too

.
 


Please note, my responces are in red.

 

[mystik spiral]

IMHO a spray bottle is much worst than a hiss.

That's what I was going to say! A hiss is not going to make Neka fearful of you, any more than your parents telling you "stop" when you were a child made you fearful of them. I only hiss at my cat when she is aggressively using her claws against me. It used to happen pretty regularly, and now if she does it once a month it's surprising. And she still cuddles in my lap, purring while I pet her. She trusts me absolutely and is not afraid of me in any way. The other thing that I have found helpful is to watch for signals. Sometimes, even if Holland is still in my lap with her eyes closed, purring away, I can tell that it's time to stop petting her because she starts switching her tail. I've just learned over the years to stop petting at that point. If I continue, chances of her grabbing my arm with her claws increases greatly.

Kneading means that she loves you and is a comforting thing for her.... you do not want to punish her for that..... it is not to say you couldn't say "NO" in a way they understand, IMHO.
My cat Bugsy does the same thing to me - only usually at 3am

I Just put a blanket on his paws where he can do it safely - you can see it in this video:

I think this is the redirection you're looking for for Neka... of course you don't want to stop her kneading because it is comforting to her, but in my experience, moving her paws to a more comfortable spot for you isn't going to hurt her feelings.

Anyway, that's my advice - if Neka is using her claws toward you in attack mode, hiss at her. If she is kneading in a spot that is uncomfortable/painful, move her paws. Her trust in you will not be broken.

 

[sarahp]

I am personally a big fan of the spray bottle... I only sprayed a couple of times, then put it on mist, and the sound (which is like a hiss), plus the threat of water was enough to stop any bad behaviour. My Stumpy was a feet attacker in the middle of the night, and had other various bad behaviours, and the spray bottle was the only thing that worked for her.

 

[jtbo]

I can say that my F3 Savannah does not work like that. The hybrid Jungle Cats I worked with, where not like that either. I think that is because there is a difference between feral and hybrid. I have noticed that hybrids, when properly socilized, lack the fear response common in domestic cats.

Also they are quite individuals, not everything works for everyone. I forgot again one of my cats, but that is as I have needed to say no to him only once, he is so shy that he really don't do anything bad, for him simply saying no did mean that he did go hiding, but he does that even if I get up from chair, so can't make much out of his behaviour.

Same with squirting water, I had one that would not stopped even if he would become soaked wet, similar mixed breed (that is no breed at all, right?) than these others too.

Without knowing any better, I would think that starting with most subtle method and working up from there, but if there is some idea what kind of things particular cat is known to respond, then using that is of course good way to start.

 

[StefanZ]

So far I've done cat things, that cat's would do favorably. Such as touching my nose to her nose, then she usually keeps brushing across my face. 

Putting my forehead to her forehead and rubbing a little.

Pet her often.

I'll meow at her and she meow's back and it's a little meow fest for a bit, but she's usually very quiet. 

I allow her to lick my hands, arms, and forehead. 

She allows me to pet her stomach, belly whenever I want, she has never hissed or tried to get away from me when I do this she very much enjoy's it.

She flops down wherever I am for attention. 

Essentially right now she trusts me COMPLETELY. 

Right.   It is well known, positive reinforcements are the best in the long run.  And should always be preferred when you do have any choice.

Tx very much for some nice examples!   Not all of them are widely known. Tx again!

But it is good to have a complete arsenal, and to know which negative signals you do have at your disposal, and how and when to use them.

Besides, for an everyday cat owner,  the negative responses are easier. Most "commoners" use them, like the wide spread advice about spraying bottle or to just shout...    So it is very good to analyse the all how and abouts here... To discriminate which are OK when appropriately used, and which are no no...

A  fantastic tread, with many participating, and very very many good suggestions and observations!!!

A tread well worth to be set up as "Sticky"  when we are ready with it.

 

[jennyr]

Part of trust is knowing how far you can go and respecting the other person. Your cat will not trust you less if you communicate the limits of behaviour to her, in fact she will be reassured as to her place and status in the family. The difficult thing is to make her understand what is acceptable. And please do not get me wrong - I would NEVER advocate hitting an animal under any circumstances. Because your kitten is still young, I am only suggesting 'talking' to her like her mother would. You only have to watch a mother cat with her kittens to see that she keeps them in check with a variety of actions and sounds, and you can mimic these, using a finger or your voice.

 

[rad65]

This is going to sound very odd but I don't want to tap at or hiss at my cat... 

Essentially right now she trusts me COMPLETELY.

Animals do not think along the same lines as humans. You are showing your cat that no matter what she does, you will never punish or dicipline her. How do you expect to get her to stop scratching you when you refuse to let her know she is doing anything wrong? Do you think mother cats are nothing but cuddles and licks? No, the mother cat is the one who teaches dicipline by scruffing, hissing, and generally being the boss. You would have trouble teaching a domestic cat to not claw you without some sort of dicipline, and I assume a savannah would be nearly impossible. It's great that your cat trusts you so much, but she won't listen to you if the worst thing you're going to do is give her an eskimo kiss.

I didn't want to hiss at or scruff my cats either, but I still had to find a way to let them know they were being bad. Since starting to scruff them, I have only had to do it twice for one cat and once for the other over the past year. I find that I do have to hiss at them every couple weeks, though. Cats are smarter than we give them credit for, and they figure out how to avoid situations they don't like (i.e. being scruffed/hissed at) by not being bad in the first place. FYI, both my cats became much more affectionate after I began hissing and scruffing. They now know I am the boss, and they basically suck up to me all the time. I love cats as much as anybody on TCS, but I still understand that we are the caretakers and parents of our pets and proper dicipline is part of rearing a life.

There is one thing I know for sure: only one animal in your apartment will be the alpha. You just have to decide if that is you or your cat. If it's your cat, then you better get used to having a clawed-up face. If it's you, you better get used to doling out light dicipline when it is needed.

 

[alleygirl]

You might try getting some type of little blanket, pillow, stuffed animal, something soft and fuzzy she would like to knead on and have that in bed next to you. Maybe when she starts kneading you, direct her towards the (blanket, whatever) instead?

 

[brandy-neka]

Okay wow, I may have been doing it wrong the last four and a half months. 

Today when Neka started going for my hair (and thus also clawing at my neck) I would very clearly and sternly (but not meanly) say "No!" and also tug a bit at the scruff of her neck. After her retrying that again and again, and my doing the same thing she started stopping for a bit and then would nuzzle into my chest and try again and I'd do the same thing and she'd nuzzle into my chest again. When she was being good I was petting her constantly, but when she was going for and sometimes chewing on my hair I would be saying "No!, No!" (not shouting, just stating) and holding her by the scruff of the neck. Made her let go without her digging her claws into me... 

In the past when she had issues I would try to use the spray bottle, until she started liking the water, and otherwise I've always just tried to redirect her to something appropriate but she never really learned.

Before Neka, I had a cat for 17 and a half years but we were the same age when he died. (Essentially saying that my grandma got him when I was a baby and we more or less grew up together) I never really had to train him, he was already trained. He already knew what was right or wrong by the time I could understand cat behavior...

On here I've mostly seen people saying redirect or try the spray bottle of water, or try Bitter Apple (when she had picca issues).

I don't know if Rad65's method is completely correct, and I'm not sure how long this scuffing thing will work, but so far it seems to be...

I'm not doing that wrong am I? She didn't seem to trust me any less, she actually seemed to be apologizing with the nuzzles afterwards but I don't know... I've read a lot about cats and their behavior on here, hopefully I'm now doing this right.. 

 

[jtbo]

I wonder, as grabbing cat from neck, releases endorphin (or some hormone that makes them feel more calm and reduces pain too), could it be that grabbing from scruff is actually working against saying no, bit like giving treat and saying bad kitty? Of course it does not necessarily work like that, but this did pop to my mind all of sudden.

 

[brandy-neka]

Okay so I'll take the "No" out and just gently pull her by the scruff of the neck as it seems to be working, and then when she goes to try to get back up I'll block her, hopefully in this way she'll realize that I do not want her doing that? .... er.. maybe? 

 

[StefanZ]

Interesting though, JTbo, but it is not only moms who are taking by scruff ("neck").  Revire holders who do want to teach who is the master cat here are also doing this... 

so I dont think so, but - the though is well worth to proceed to think about.

 

[jtbo]

Interesting though, JTbo, but it is not only moms who are taking by scruff ("neck").  Revire holders who do want to teach who is the master cat here are also doing this... 


so I dont think so, but - the though is well worth to proceed to think about.

What I have observed from my three young ones, there is one at cat bed, other that comes to cat bed is grabbing from the scruff of one that is already in bed, anyone can do that to anyone and after bit of that they cuddle happily together. I know also that it is also used teaching who is master cat and also as you mention mother cats use it, I think mostly move kittens around, there might be other ones too.

So as there are variety of uses, what is then telling the cat which kind of scruff grab it is, is it sheer force used or events after/before grabbing? That is something I have not yet found out actually.

Also is this cat biting hair comparable to what I have observed with my little ones doing when one is at cat bed and other comes there?

Maybe moving cat will work just fine and when cat is trying to get back to unwanted action one thing I have learned to work is put one finger top of cats head and gently push down, my three seem to understand that to as stay put, has been much easier than trying to keep cat on place when cat does not understand why movements of his/hers are being restricted by human hands.

Cats are however quite intelligent and they figure out quite quickly why, when they are kept moved away constantly after some action.

 

[thembcat]

I would first attempt to trim your kitty's claws before you resort to declawing.    Chacho isn't the easiest to trim nails on but if I catch him when he's sleeping or in a snuggly mood its a lot easier.

If you do resort to declaw I would find a vet that does the laser declaw and just have the front delawed only.    The laser procedure is alot safer and gentler on the cat and usually doesn't have the lengthy recovering time afterwards.   I would not get the oldschool surgical declaw procedure. Its cruel and very very painful for the cat and can often result in lasting emotional damage.  My family had a cat (this was before the laser procedure) but we got her front claws declawed. It was done at our own vet which we had a very great relationship but for some reason her recovery after surgery was horrible. Her paws kept bleeding and she could walk for almost 2 months and she became very mean and hostile especially towards our other cats. She also ended up gaining a bunch of weight and became pretty obese.  We never declawed another cat after that. We didn't want to see another beloved pet go through what Toonsit went through.

My Grandma Freeman got her cat, Mitzi delawed after she adopted her.  She had the Laser procedure done. Her cat had pretty much no recovery time after it was done. There was no bandages, no bleeding, and unless Mitzi got too crazy running around, it seemed like she wasn't in very much, if any, pain.  Mitzi is a mean cat...but she was mean before the surgery so it wasn't the laser delaw that made her cranky lol.

Still despite laser declawing being much better thanthe surgical way, it should always but the very very last option.  I would try everything else before turning to declaw.

 

[p3 and the king]

With letting out a loud OUCH or NO, you may scare her and cause her to do more damage to you than she would.  That has been my experience.  My thing is just to put them down or turn away from them when they are getting too clawsy with me. 

 

[stephiedoodle]

Declawing if it must be done as lets remember your taking off part of the toe as well as the claw should be a major think it through and weight EVERY single option. As for her kneading your face redirect the kneading to a cushion or a blanket make it known to Neka that kneading your face is a no no hiss at her and then follow it up with No Neka. It'll take a while but eventually she will get the gist of it.

 

[jmeeko10]

I understand how you feel about that .. 

when I got my first cat Jasper when he was 6 weeks old yeah too young to bring new home .. my sister's friend was give away not sure where Jasper's mother of cat maybe run away dunno .. Anyway , I got Jasper and it was fine cause he was small baby kitten till grow older start went to attack me and I yelled OW!! to let him know and then I said easy voice said no as he knew it then again attack me I keep going said OW! so he know my voice and run off  and I was thinking about declaws him hmm so I ask my sister about it cause she have a cat and have declaws so I asked him how much does it ?? she was told me about $300 declaws, meds, stay at vet overnight and I was like OH YIKES! that too much cost I cant afford so I decided to leave it jasper's nails alone but he is so friendly yeah but too scary with stranger human dont know them only me as he know it is me cause I had him for 4 years and always sleep with me all the times .. I did clipper his nails so he wouldnt hurt my skins but his teeth so I have to be careful with it and he was being good boy so far no attacked me .. now he is passed away 2 yrs ago .. till my mom got me another kitten when he was 9 weeks old so cute! you can see my display of my cat name is Meeko.. He is so smart! I dont need to declaws him .. when he was little bout maybe 6 or 7 months old his nails start to hard not as kitten tiny nails anymore and he did attacked me and I yelled said OW!!! and he just right run off so fast!! and I came to him and very light tap on his nose said no bite.. no bite and his eyes of black went wide and his ears went down as he knew not to attack me . He does it again to me few times till finally he know how not to hurt me from his paws! yaya .. when he did attack me just do his paws not the claws just paws soft grab me .. but the plm is teeth grrrr I keep said no bite .. sometime he loves to bite me lol I still keep said no bite thats all .. 

He know how not to hurt me anymore since he was about 6 or 7 months old he is now 2 yrs old

 maybe you try what JTbo said .. JTbo is sound like same as mine when I had Jasper and now Meeko

 

[stephiedoodle]

 
I understand how you feel about that .. 

when I got my first cat Jasper when he was 6 weeks old yeah too young to bring new home .. my sister's friend was give away not sure where Jasper's mother of cat maybe run away dunno .. Anyway , I got Jasper and it was fine cause he was small baby kitten till grow older start went to attack me and I yelled OW!! to let him know and then I said easy voice said no as he knew it then again attack me I keep going said OW! so he know my voice and run off  and I was thinking about declaws him hmm so I ask my sister about it cause she have a cat and have declaws so I asked him how much does it ?? she was told me about $300 declaws, meds, stay at vet overnight and I was like OH YIKES! that too much cost I cant afford so I decided to leave it jasper's nails alone but he is so friendly yeah but too scary with stranger human dont know them only me as he know it is me cause I had him for 4 years and always sleep with me all the times .. I did clipper his nails so he wouldnt hurt my skins but his teeth so I have to be careful with it and he was being good boy so far no attacked me .. now he is passed away 2 yrs ago .. till my mom got me another kitten when he was 9 weeks old so cute! you can see my display of my cat name is Meeko.. He is so smart! I dont need to declaws him .. when he was little bout maybe 6 or 7 months old his nails start to hard not as kitten tiny nails anymore and he did attacked me and I yelled said OW!!! and he just right run off so fast!! and I came to him and very light tap on his nose said no bite.. no bite and his eyes of black went wide and his ears went down as he knew not to attack me . He does it again to me few times till finally he know how not to hurt me from his paws! yaya .. when he did attack me just do his paws not the claws just paws soft grab me .. but the plm is teeth grrrr I keep said no bite .. sometime he loves to bite me lol I still keep said no bite thats all .. 

He know how not to hurt me anymore since he was about 6 or 7 months old he is now 2 yrs old

 maybe you try what JTbo said .. JTbo is sound like same as mine when I had Jasper and now Meeko

 Okay this was hard to read vey hard to read though I think the context was much of what everyone else has been saying yell 'ouch' follow him in a soft voice say 'no clawing/biting' and soft tap to the nose....I think.

 

[lucykitty]

My history is as follows

I was born feral, got caught spayed and  my ear clipped to show I had been spayed.   Then someone caught me again adopted me since I am so lovable when I  want to be   Next thing I knew I was  missing my front claws.     I am lucky to be alive because I apparently got out of the house and got lost for a very long time until a friend decided to take me to the vet (when she finally caught me) for shots and FL/FIV/Worm check  since there are young children in the community I was  living in.  I got my shots and the tests were all negative (what a relief that was)  She took me home and took me into her house so I wouldn't run off after being "tortured"  she thought I might forget about that  haha.....  She tried to play with me but  I didn't really understand  what she was trying to do so I ran off and hid for a few hours.    Later I saw her sitting down and jumped into her lap and let her pet me for a few minutes,  thats when she noticed   I was missing my front toenails  (Thank goodness because I think she might have tried to paint them).   She  only lets me outside now is she can be with me and I think I have more sense now than to run off again.   But  unless you just have to remove the claws  for health  reasons I suggest you don't.     There are many things to so to  teach us not too.  I still like a scratching post/condo and I also have one that I can roll around with and use my back feet on to keep my fighting skills should I ever need them.   I did occasional  try to scratch the sofa  but my mom had a little water pistol she would shoot me with and Id stop I learned real quick not to scratch there.Oh she also sprayed catnip on my condo posts and now I know to go there.  

So please    research  humane ways to stop your adorable feline  friend before you declaw them   UNLeSS  you are 200%   sure  they   will never get outside There is a lot of new dangers out there.  Raccoons  coyotes too......

 

[jmeeko10]

Sorry if it hard to read ? :S 

 soft said ow? no I just yelled loud yes and he just run off cause it gonna like hurt his ears like high pinch .. meeko know my voice and wont hurt starch me again but only still bitting as far he know what no mean