Help Please! Cat trying to Kill Kitten

[hissy]

Just filter the advice you are given MT regardless who gives it.

Weigh your situation and look at your reactions from the kittens in question and move ahead that way. It really depends on the kittens because not all of them are the same. Some are just wired different. Pet store kittens here in the U.S. the majority of them come from kitten mills (very dismal sad places) even if they look pedigreed, chances are there is something wrong with them emotionally or physically.

So use your common sense and weigh each option carefully. You have a strong alpha kitten on your hands and I bet he is a lot of fun. But they get jealous of newcomers and need to show dominance and sometimes that can go a bit far.

Years ago from anothe website I run, I received an email from a man who had bought his wife a kitten as a surprise. They already had an older cat- just about a year old, so this man went on a website and asked the group how to introduce the two. The answers were varied, but sadly, the one he went with caused the demise of the kitten. He was told (and it wasn't this website by the way or mine either) but he was told that if he took tuna juice and rubbed it on the kitten and put them together in the room, all would be well! He didnt know, so he did just that and didn't get the kitten to the vet in time to save her. He was devasted and never wanted another kitten again. I did an article around this email and today I am happy to report that he and his wife have three cats and everyone is doing great!

So like I said, filter all the advice you are ever given on the Internet and go with what feels right in your heart for you and your cats. We aren't there to see the interaction you are.Sometimes what you post that you see isn't what is really happening for them. It's all a matter of perspective.

 

[maxtucker]

Thanks for the help guys and you especially Hissy. Most of what I am hearing is normal and as you suggest Hissy I am filtering the advice here.

I am tempted to agree with you as you all clearly know more than me about cats in general. However, I just wanted to go into further detail as now I have had more time to see this behavior in action.

The neck biting is consistent and every time they're together it is constant. Just now in a 10 min play session the big cat tried to wrap his jaws around the neck of the smaller one 14 times.

Also, the neck biting does not happen in the middle of play fights. It happens when the kitten is minding his own business with his back turned. The older cat approaches like a shadow and silently wraps his mouth around the kittens neck. He backs off only when he gets clawed in the face.

Does the above sound normal?

My girlfriend describes our older cat as damaged. The lady we got him from had bought him at 8 weeks old and had introduced him to their established cat right away. This led to an attack in which the kitten received a swipe and a bite. She immediately put an ad online to give him away. The next day we went to pick the kitten up but he was traumatized. For a week he would hide under the couch and he has always been extremely wary. So I am thinking that this might come into play.

I can video the neck biting behavior and post it on YouTube for you guys to see. Maybe by watching it you can see if it is normal or more sinister. Would this be ok?

 

[strange_wings]

You can certainly link to a vid of the encounters if you wish.

But do go through with separating them for a bit. This will give the older kitten time to finish getting male kitty hormones out of his system and the little one time to grow and be able to retaliate better.

Part of what you're describing in the older kitten can be blamed on him not having the social interaction he needed as a young kitten. The positive interaction with same aged siblings that teaches boundries and how to play. I wouldn't doubt that woman's inproper introductions could have a little affect. Does he ever play rough with you? Bitting or grabbing hands or feet?

 

[maxtucker]

Yes he has always been rough with me. I tried to teach him not to be rough but he never learns and always plays rough with humans. Bites and scratches (rarely breaking the skin) are common from him.

 

[strange_wings]

That would have been a good bit of info to have shared at the beginning.

Honestly that needs to be worked on. There are ways to teach him boundaries with you, and this information is in the stickies in the section for you to read through when you have time.

Honestly, I don't think you should have gotten another young kitten with him being under socialized like that. Had you joined a while back and asked you probably would have been told to adopt an adult cat. A lot of us cheat that way in these sort of situations.

Have a kitten that needs social training he/she missed? Let a tolerant adult cat do the work.

But what is done is done so you're just going to have to watch him and be careful.

One thing you can do is address his kitten energy. At his age I bet he's turning into the teenage terror kitten. (if not, you're lucky) During this time lots of play and stimulation helps keep this age group out of worse trouble. You have a laser pointer? If not, that and wand toys would be excellent for a hand biting kitten. You can look into other interactive toys in local stores, too. If you have questions about particular ones you can search or post in the care and grooming section as most people have tried just about every toy.

 

[hissy]

I would try another tact with the older one. Marilyn Krieger wrote a book Naughty No More. It is a step-by-step guidebook to clicker training problem cats. I had one here that I tried this process on and it worked great. It allowed some one-on-one bonding time, harnessed the kitty's energy and took the negative traits he was showing and turned him into a loveable kitty. It's not hard to do and the cats seem to really like it. I would go that route but still keep the two away from each other for now.

 

[rosiemac]

When l brought Sophie home Rosie hissed and growled at her for 2 weeks, but l kept them in seperate rooms until l could be with them to supervise. After a couple of month's l left them alone for 2 hours and increased it every few days until l was comfortable to leave them all day.

Rosie would bite on Sophie and she would rabbit kick her as well, but l used to grab Rosie's attention so Sophie could jump up and run for sanctuary. The ironic thing was as soon as Rosie was looking at me Sophie would pounce back onto her and the wrestling would start again

This is what happened often!

 

[farleyv]

Hi there, Just a note to make sure the toilet seat is down when there is a kitten being kept in the bathroom.

Terrible accidents can happen .

 

[feralvr]

Originally Posted by hissy

I would try another tact with the older one. Marilyn Krieger wrote a book Naughty No More. It is a step-by-step guidebook to clicker training problem cats. I had one here that I tried this process on and it worked great. It allowed some one-on-one bonding time, harnessed the kitty's energy and took the negative traits he was showing and turned him into a loveable kitty. It's not hard to do and the cats seem to really like it. I would go that route but still keep the two away from each other for now.

I second this advice with the older kitten. Clicker training is very fun for both cat and owner. I do use it as well and it has saved a few ambushes in my home

. It is really fun to train a cat tricks, especially one that has lots of energy and want something to do. If you kitten is food motivated, then the clicker training is a great option for you. I also would keep them separated for awhile as well, with only supervised, short sessions together.

 

[gemmahoban]

hiya i actually have the opposite my cat is trying to play mum to my other cats kittens.

and it is 8 weeks for a kitten to go to its new home here in ireland.

 

[wellingtoncats]

To the OP good luck with your baby.

Please don't feel this post here is directed towards you, just general info

The practice of a few people obtaining kittens at 6 weeks in the UK is NOT the norm. To anyone who is reading this thread who wants more information one of the major fancies in the UK recommends that kittens don't go to their new homes until 13 weeks old. This is pedigrees of course but 6 weeks is no age for a kitten to be going to a new home. I am fairly certain TICA has similar ethics in the UK. I can't imagine my little 6 week old bubbies being away from their Mumma's.

http://www.gccfcats.org/ethics.html

 

[maxtucker]

Originally Posted by WellingtonCats

To the OP good luck with your baby.

Please don't feel this post here is directed towards you, just general info

The practice of a few people obtaining kittens at 6 weeks in the UK is NOT the norm. To anyone who is reading this thread who wants more information one of the major fancies in the UK recommends that kittens don't go to their new homes until 13 weeks old. This is pedigrees of course but 6 weeks is no age for a kitten to be going to a new home. I am fairly certain TICA has similar ethics in the UK. I can't imagine my little 6 week old bubbies being away from their Mumma's.

http://www.gccfcats.org/ethics.html

When I say 'the norm' I mean if you look for kittens on gumtree (kind of like a UK Craigs List) you will see many kittens being sold from 6 weeks onwards.

Based on my viewing of 10 ads the average age of kittens being sold is 8 weeks old.

Since the majority of people buy cats through gumtree or newspaper ads I would say 8 weeks or so is normal. Amongst breeders I am sure normal is more like 12 weeks as you say.

 

[maxtucker]

Originally Posted by hissy

I would try another tact with the older one. Marilyn Krieger wrote a book Naughty No More. It is a step-by-step guidebook to clicker training problem cats. I had one here that I tried this process on and it worked great. It allowed some one-on-one bonding time, harnessed the kitty's energy and took the negative traits he was showing and turned him into a loveable kitty. It's not hard to do and the cats seem to really like it. I would go that route but still keep the two away from each other for now.

Thanks again for some more great advice. Clicker training sounds great and I jsut gave it a test run with some good results. Thanks.

 

[-_aj_-]

Originally Posted by WellingtonCats

To the OP good luck with your baby.

Please don't feel this post here is directed towards you, just general info

The practice of a few people obtaining kittens at 6 weeks in the UK is NOT the norm. To anyone who is reading this thread who wants more information one of the major fancies in the UK recommends that kittens don't go to their new homes until 13 weeks old. This is pedigrees of course but 6 weeks is no age for a kitten to be going to a new home. I am fairly certain TICA has similar ethics in the UK. I can't imagine my little 6 week old bubbies being away from their Mumma's.

http://www.gccfcats.org/ethics.html

I'll will agree maybe pedigree cats don't go at 6 weeks but you look anywhere that are selling them and its six weeks Sam everyone I know here got there cats at 6 weeks

 

[Anne]

I'm glad to see this thread is taking on a positive direction

I was getting worried going through the first posts made by Strange_wings. I think it's crucial for us "old-timers" to remember that new members do not share the experience some of us have, and do not deserve to be chastised over mistakes just because we have seen them brought up repeatedly here... Difficult as it may be, we have to keep in mind that this is a new person asking, not the accumulative personas that we've dealt with in the past

Please let's try and keep this place friendly towards newcomers, and in general. We can help more cats this way, and this is what we're here for, right?

Regarding the age of kittens - just because it may be the norm in certain countries, doesn't mean it's in the best interest of the cats. The younger, the cuter, making it easier for owners to find homes. By the way, I see that a lot here in Israel as well. People who don't spay their cat, then try to "get rid" of the kittens when they're too young, to maximize their chances of finding homes for them all.

I think it's wonderful that forums like this may help create more awareness in other countries as well for good cat care practices

 

[maxtucker]

Ok so i finally got a video that shows the cats fighting. If you put the volume up you can here the little kitten cry three times or so.


Is this kind of fighting serious? A lot of people here say fighting is ok and normal. If this is too violent what should I do? Even though the little kitten cries and is obviously in pain he will almost always start the fights. He is the aggressor for the most part and he is almost fearless.

 

[c1atsite]

Originally Posted by MaxTucker

Ok so i finally got a video that shows the cats fighting. If you put the volume up you can here the little kitten cry three times or so.


Is this kind of fighting serious? A lot of people here say fighting is ok and normal. If this is too violent what should I do? Even though the little kitten cries and is obviously in pain he will almost always start the fights. He is the aggressor for the most part and he is almost fearless.

In my humble opinion, it looks like play. At 1:50-1:53 it looks like the older one is affectionately licking the little tabby's stomach

 

[jugen]

Originally Posted by c1atsite

In my humble opinion, it looks like play. At 1:50-1:53 it looks like the older one is affectionately licking the little tabby's stomach

I agree. It all looks like playing to me also. Maybe a little aggressively but still it looks like my boys when they have their moments of zipping thru the house and playing with each other.

 

[lexi21]

this is first time hear cat trying kill kitty, may be the cat jealous with new commer
thank for the advice, great info

 

[maxtucker]

Thanks for all the advice and help guys, they're best of friends now!