Has anyone ever gone raw cold turkey?

[kit kat nyc]

I adopted a friend's cat 9 mo ago; Kit Kat is 3.5 yo, and has eaten crap dry food her whole life. When I got her, I tried to transition her to wet food, but when she wouldn't even look at it, I bought what I ought was a high end grain free dry kibble. On her first visit, she weighed 15.75 pounds, and last month, 8 mo later she has gained almost a pound. The vet advised I switch to a low fat version of the dry, but I knew that wasn't enough. I did that and started making her exercise more, but in the extensive research I have now done, I am certain she needs to be eating raw, and I am determined to get her there.

I get that the vet is directed by the pet food companies, and doesn't really get the whole nutrition picture; it's the same with most people doctors too. I have consulted a few holistic pet care centers and stores and they all suggest I switch from free feeding t mealtimes. One man who is supposedly an expert on this told me to only feed 2x a day, slowly transitioning the food ratios, and fast her for 2 non consecutive days a week until she is eating the wet food completely. He laughed and said I probably wouldn't be able to go through with that, and I'm finding he's right. The wet food he suggested she won't touch. She may lick it once, and then looks at me like, "what are you doing?"

It's been 2 days, and she won't touch the wet food, and barely eats the kibble. I tried a few of Dr. Pierson's tips, but those didn't work either. Since she is not eating very much at all, I don't want to fast her, but may continue trying 3 meals a day so she is getting enough calories and doesn't go into hepatic lipidosis.

The real reason for posting today is that today I had some ground beef defrosted in the fridge, so tried to give her a tiny bit. She refused the wet food, but actually ate a tiny piece of the raw meat! I was thinking maybe she might benefit from just eating raw right away, but I don't want her to get sick. If anyone has ever done a cold turkey transition, I'd love to hear about it! Thanks!!!

 

[ldg]

Well, there are several members that transitioned directly from kibble to raw. But getting them on timed meals was really the first step - as it's a must for any non-kibble feeding anway. And the biggest issue with the free-fed kibble to any other format is the timed meals (in my experience).

I just wrote out the best way to manage that here: http://www.thecatsite.com/t/263265/bailing-on-raw-for-one-cat-slow-eater#post_3394158

Some cats do OK on two meals a day, but I really wouldn't recommend it for a cat that's previously been free-fed. One of my cats developed bleeding ulcers from 4 meals a day. So acid production is nothing to ignore. I do have the cats on 3 meals a day now; morning (before work), evening (dinner time) and before bed. But that is the longest they can go between meals without vomiting up bile (most of mine were 8 when we transitioned from free feeding to timed meals, and 9 when we transitioned to raw).

I see no reason not to transition directly to raw. I would put her on a probiotic ASAP, this will help her not get sick from the meat; and you may want to use digestive enzymes at first. Their bodies go through a big change - though it's easier to see looking back, than it is to be aware of it at the time. :nod: For us, there was a fair amount of vomiting along the way - that was how I knew to slow things down.

I would definitely skip the "don't feed her x amount of time" advice - but do let hunger work in your favor. But she MUST eat.

When Carolina transitioned from kibble to raw, the first thing she did for her kibble addict was switch to a high protein dry food - EVO chicken & turkey or whatever it is. I know they had the recall, but isn't it back on shelves? It is SO high in calories without the carbs, they don't need a lot of it to get their daily need. This makes it easier to get them eating timed meals and maintaining their weight.

In the end, had I known then what I know now, I would have taken the transition to timed meals much more slowly than I did. There is no rush, this is not a race. You WILL get there, because patience wins out. :nod: But make sure she eats - whatever it is.

And if she likes raw meat, I see absolutely NO reason not to feed her some. Maybe identify a daily meal with whatever call you're going to use to signify meal time be a raw food meal - while you slowly work on removing the kibble.

I know many people say "don't feed raw and kibble at the same time!" and some cats may have GI distress from this. But if on a high protein, low carb kibble, it shouldn't be such a risk. It's a heck of a lot better than fatty liver, that's for sure. :nod:

 

[mschauer]

All 4 of mine made the switch to raw cold turkey. They were between 2-4 years old then. At the time I wasn't aware of the idea of doing a slow transition to keep them from getting sick. They the only reason I knew of for doing that was as a way to convince them to eat a food they were unfamiliar with.

Two of mine just ate raw right away. For the other two I just kept offering them raw until they finally decided to eat it. For one that took months and for the last one it took about a year. I did the thing of mixing raw into wet and slowly increasing the amount with the last holdout but it never worked. At some point he would just refuse to eat. So I stopped that and, like I said, I just kept offering him raw until he finally ate it.

 

[kit kat nyc]

Thanks so much, that's great! Yes, I've been putting the probiotic in, so hopefully she'll ingest enough for it to o it's trick. I'll keep tying & see what works. Thanks again!

 

[denice]

I just wanted to add a warning here  Never fast a cat for any reason other than the few hours necessary before anesthetic.  I have been through hepatic lipidosis with a cat.  Not only is it a scary thing that is very wearing on both the cat and the caregiver but chances are very good that the cat will be left with some permanent liver damage.

 

[franksmom]

Yes I have heard of cold turkey transitions. What I would recommend is starting her on a good human grade probiotic. It is generally not advised to feed ground meat from the grocery store but you can buy ground meat from (https://www.hare-today.com) if you are in the states and apparently is is cheap, but you do have to add alnutrition to it which they also sell.

You could also cook ground meat from the grocery store and feed it with a supplement added (http://tcfeline.com/2010/08/16/cooked-meat/). We have an interesting thread on cooking meat going on right now and it appears cooked is more digestible so it may be easier to transition  at first cooking ground meat (http://www.thecatsite.com/t/263374/my-first-cooked-chicken-cat-food).

If you just want to jump into raw full force you can buy some commercial food (many pet stores will give you a sample to try), or you can buy a grinder and follow the recipe on www.catinfo.org. What I plan to do with my kitten is to chunk organic raw meat and add the TCfeline supplement with liver added- she really loves pieces of raw meat and is not so into ground.

Another idea is to get some freeze died raw like stella and chewy's or primal and rehydrate it to feed. For some reason cats tend to love these and my cat who will not eat raw will eat these. He has a vomiting issue and was finally able to keep raw down for the first time eating the poultry flavours.

 

[peaches08]

When I picked up my 3 cats from the shelter, they had been on a free kibble diet. I refuse to feed kibble so I gave them canned right from the start with no kibble. After suffering diarrhea for months, I made the decision to go raw. After I made their first raw meal, I took the canned food to the shelter. Their diarrhea was eliminated in 24 hours, but I think that me throwing them bones to munch on while I prepared the raw had a lot to do with it.

I've read that transitions should be done more slowly (after the fact), but in hindsight the only thing I would change would be to have started raw once we got home. You've been given great advice on how to help their tummies adjust.

 

[kit kat nyc]

Thanks everyone! I went back to the store today and thy gave me some mother's milk to mix with the probiotic so I know she's getting some nutrition. I got a variety of raw starters & also some raw treats. She loved the treats, but started vomiting a tiny bit and she had diarrhea for the first time that I've had her today. I think bc of all the different things I've tried, her gut is rebelling. It's so hard for me to see her like this, but I know perseverance is key to getting her healthy! It sounds like the raw may help with the diarrhea. Is that what people are fining o be true? If not, I'll take a step back & slow this down. But, if it helps, I might just keep trying the raw.

 

[kit kat nyc]

Just have to say thank you to everyone who is responding with helpful information! So nice to have people to ask or guidance!

 

[franksmom]

Thanks everyone! I went back to the store today and thy gave me some mother's milk to mix with the probiotic so I know she's getting some nutrition. I got a variety of raw starters & also some raw treats. She loved the treats, but started vomiting a tiny bit and she had diarrhea for the first time that I've had her today. I think bc of all the different things I've tried, her gut is rebelling. It's so hard for me to see her like this, but I know perseverance is key to getting her healthy! It sounds like the raw may help with the diarrhea. Is that what people are fining o be true? If not, I'll take a step back & slow this down. But, if it helps, I might just keep trying the raw.

Yes probably too many diet changes and what is in the mother's milk? I suspect that might be the culprit. To address the diarrhea you can try giving her plain cooked chicken, this often works well. Because of her GI issues you may also want to look into starting with a cooked diet and here is a very helpful new resource thread (http://www.thecatsite.com/t/263437/creating-a-home-cooked-resources-sticky)

 

[kit kat nyc]

I will try that tomorrow. She just threw up everything she ate. I'm not sure if maybe I did too much, and should just go back to timed meals with the dry food she was eating for a few days, & then start to introduce the raw on the side and slowly reduce the dry & increase the raw? This is so hard. I hate watching her vomit. I give you all so much credit for staying the course over months and years.

 

[ldg]

I think most of us, when transitioning to raw, stuck with one protein at a time, until we were sure it didn't upset the kitties' tummies. For me, that was a few days. Then I'd introduce a new protein. I continued to feed 50% raw and 50% canned.

If you're still free feeding her, what you may want to do is start with measured portions. Divide up her total daily need into two, and put out the measured amount in the morning, and the 2nd portion 12 hours later. When she starts eating (and keeping down) more raw food, you can start cutting back on the measured amount of kibble left out for her.

But set times for the raw meals, and "call" her for meals, whatever call you want to use: something to signal a meal. Differentiate this from treats, regardless of portion size. :nod: (My cats eat three meals a day, the same amount of food is provided at each meal. Mine are older adults, and those that range in size from 11 - 14 pounds all eat about 1.5 ounces per meal).

Whenever someone threw up, I didn't stop offering the raw food, I just went back to whatever protein they were eating before the vomit, or I cut down the amount of it fed.

I agree with Franksmom - probably just too many new things. I don't know what mother's milk is either, but it sounds like something that may be too rich, or have too much lactose for an adult cat. :dk:

You can always skip a day to let her system "reset." :nod:

 

[catbythesea]

We switched our two cats cold turkey! I'm not sure I have much advice, but I can tell you our experience. When we got our cats from the shelter, we right away started offering wet food. They became reluctant to eat kibble after discovering the wet food - so much for a slow transition! Both are young cats - Warbear was 4 months when we got her, Brenna's around a year old. So we also started with 4 meals a day, then moved to 3 meals once Warbear got a bit older.

In the past month, although we were feeding high quality canned, both kitties suddenly started having diarrhea and throwing up. After a couple vet visits, tests, etc, we tried giving them just raw chunks of chicken to see how they took that. Within 12 hours, the diarrhea had stopped and the cats were no longer acting nauseous and unhappy. (Also, they loved it!) We'd been planning to move to a proper raw diet for months, so we actually were prepared to give it a shot right away... if the change would help their little tummies, not make them more upset. After a couple of unbalanced test meals, our supplement (TC Feline) arrived in the mail, and we went ahead and mixed up a batch.

Well, Warbear was just fine with it right away. But poor Brenna, our long hair, had a big hairball coming along when she ate her dinner. So unfortunately, she didn't keep down any of the nicely balanced meal we fed her, and refused a second helping to make up for it. The next morning, she was hungry again, so we fed her her usual breakfast. But that was too much... I guess the raw stuff with the supplements and so on is very rich. So she tossed up maybe half of that. By this time, poor Brenna wasn't interested in anything with that supplement slurry on it! She seemed to associate it with her tummy upsets. Smart kitty, but we knew it was better for her. Warbear wasn't having any of this trouble, so we guessed that Brenna's difficulty was not that the food was bad, just that she had that hairball and then too much at once the next day. She refused her lunch, crying for us to feed her something, anything but that! At dinner time, we sat with her, stroked her back, and told her how delicious this food is. We talked to her very reassuringly and confidently, and every time she jogged off to the kitchen trying to convince us to feed her something else, we called her back to her dish and reminded her that it was filled with yummy stuff already. 

After a few minutes of this, Brenna took one very suspicious bite. And then another. She really does like it, she was just scared it would give her a tummy ache again! We pretended to her that we were absolutely certain it would be great and not make her uncomfortable, but truth be told, we were worried about her. The diarrhea previously had lasted a week and some days, and there was no clear diagnosis from the vet. Our pretending paid off, because Brenna has now successfully been eating her balanced raw chicken diet for  about a week. No more throw up, no more diarrhea. 

So, the throwing up is something that looks really scary. It was really upsetting to see her do that! She looked so uncomfortable. But she really liked the food itself, and it's really encouraging to know that. We found that offering her a small amount at a time really helped. Like, we'd give her a small meal, maybe 1-2 ounces, and see if that stayed down and if she was acting normal. If so, and she was still hungry, then we'd give another small meal a little bit later. You could even give less at a time, whatever works. We're back to giving 3-4 meals a day. They are both comfortably eating their usual portions again, and it's only been a week. Both our cats are still growing, so we do feed them a lot. They do eat a bit less overall of the raw than they did of the canned. 

Anyway, good luck! 

 

[kit kat nyc]

Thank you, that is really helpful. So happy for you that it was a quick transition. Since she never really took to wet food before, I'm sure it will take some adjustment, but we'll get there. I will try diving the 1/8c dry food 2x a day and put the raw food with it. I'm guessing if I just keep putting it on her plate she'll eventually eat it. I started tonight with primal's venison, but I think I might try some raw chicken that I have since it seems as though chicken is the easiest to digest when starting. Once she adjusts to that for a few days, I'll decrease the dry and try the venison again. I've been so upset about her tonight, I completely forgot to eat myself since this afternoon! I know my stress imparts to her, so I need to relax about it all, and I know it will work out fine!

 

[kit kat nyc]

Hello everyone, sorry to bother again! This morning she woke me up, and I was excited that she was hungry. I walked into the kitchen to feed her, and passed the living room, where there were 2 dried up liquid piles of vomit on the floor. I cleaned it up and fed her, she ate only the dry, and I guess because she is eating so fast because she knows it is going away, or she's so hungry, she vomited that up immediately, many of the pellets were still whole. Se didn't try the wet, so I know that's not the problem. I gave her a tiny piece of chicken raw, and she loved it. Gnawed on it a few times, and then walked away, didn't finish it and didn't try any others.

How do I know that she's not vomiting bile when she throws up now? Is it bright yellow, or just whitish yellow? I'm scared that she isn't getting very many calories, and that she's going to stop eating because of all the trauma. And, if I take her to the vet, I am sure they will tell me to go back to free feeding. If anyone has suggestions, I'd really like to hear! Thanks!

 

[mschauer]

Hello everyone, sorry to bother again! This morning she woke me up, and I was excited that she was hungry. I walked into the kitchen to feed her, and passed the living room, where there were 2 dried up liquid piles of vomit on the floor. I cleaned it up and fed her, she ate only the dry, and I guess because she is eating so fast because she knows it is going away, or she's so hungry, she vomited that up immediately, many of the pellets were still whole. Se didn't try the wet, so I know that's not the problem. I gave her a tiny piece of chicken raw, and she loved it. Gnawed on it a few times, and then walked away, didn't finish it and didn't try any others.

How do I know that she's not vomiting bile when she throws up now? Is it bright yellow, or just whitish yellow? I'm scared that she isn't getting very many calories, and that she's going to stop eating because of all the trauma. And, if I take her to the vet, I am sure they will tell me to go back to free feeding. If anyone has suggestions, I'd really like to hear! Thanks!

If I understand correctly she is throwing up even if you feed her *only* the food she was previously able to eat without throwing up? If so I would get her to a vet. A UTI (urinary tract infection), for instance, will cause a cat to be hesitant to eat because of nausea and to throw up when they do eat.

If you haven't gone back to the food she was able to eat without throwing up you need to do so. Then once her stomach is settled go forward *slowly*.

 

[denice]

A cat will definitely vomit right after eating too fast.  Is she completely used to getting meals?   I would definitely wait until she is before trying raw.   There are ways to slow down fast eaters.  Something as simple as putting a ball in the bowl with the kibble will slow them down because they have to eat around it.  I know you want to get her on a good diet but cats have to be transitioned very slowly.  When she is fully used to meals and her digestive system is settled you could try raw again.  I would stick with the protein that is the primary protein in her kibble.

She does have to eat something.  If this continues very long she will need a vet visit.  I know you don't want to do this because of the advise they will give you about food but it will be needed.

 

[ldg]

Can you provide more information about how you're feeding her? Is kibble left out overnight for her to nibble? Did you pull it completely? When? How many meals do you offer her? How much food at a time? Are meal times being offered on a set schedule?

Regurgitation when the stomach is full of acid is quite common, especially during a transition to timed meals.

This is why it's best to not pull the kibble up front, but rather add meal times. Then pull the kibble in stages. If she won't eat meals offered with the kibble down, we can help there too. But if she'll eat additional small meals, with a measured amount of kibble left out for her to free feed, this is the easiest method on her tummy to start the transition. Given she doesn't like the wet food, but does like the raw, I'd use the raw as the "meal time" food. But I think we should discuss portion sizes in relation to how much kibble and how many meals a day are being offered. :rub:

I suspect what's happening here is a build-up of bile. But some additional information will really help us help you and your kitty. :heart2:

 

[mschauer]

Can you provide more information about how you're feeding her? Is kibble left out overnight for her to nibble? Did you pull it completely? When? How many meals do you offer her? How much food at a time? Are meal times being offered on a set schedule?

Regurgitation when the stomach is full of acid is quite common, especially during a transition to timed meals.

This is why it's best to not pull the kibble up front, but rather add meal times. Then pull the kibble in stages. If she won't eat meals offered with the kibble down, we can help there too. But if she'll eat additional small meals, with a measured amount of kibble left out for her to free feed, this is the easiest method on her tummy to start the transition. Given she doesn't like the wet food, but does like the raw, I'd use the raw as the "meal time" food. But I think we should discuss portion sizes in relation to how much kibble and how many meals a day are being offered.

I suspect what's happening here is a build-up of bile. But some additional information will really help us help you and your kitty.

What *exactly* are you doing now????

 

[kit kat nyc]

I called an holistic home visit vet this morning after posting. She is coming this afternoon, but since then, I have managed to get her to eat 2 small meals of raw chicken and a little bit of "before grain" kibble, maybe 15 pellets. She seems able to keep that down, and since she isn't eating a whole lot at each feeding, I figured i wouldn't free feed, but just space the meals every two hours. She has been napping as usual and is very interested in playing and running around, so I'm pretty sure I was just being a nervous nelly. I'm glad the vet is coming to just reassure me and will hopefully have some tips as well. Thanks to everyone for their concern and guidance. This is such an amazing resource. The only person I know to ask questions to in my regular world is the friend I adopted her from, and she thinks wet food is the problem, so that's a dead end. This is an amazing resource, and I look forward to being able to offer guidance to others as well! Will keep everyone posted!