Grocery Store Pre-ground Meats: Yes Or No?

[orange&white]

I've seen the raw-feeding members here make comments about using or not using pre-ground beef, chicken, turkey, etc from the grocery, and wanted to do a poll of sorts about how many people feel comfortable feeding raw ground meats sourced from the grocery.

The reason I'm asking is that I have not used ground meats for my cat food batches (they eat "chunks"), but ground turkey is on sale this week for $1/lb. A little light bulb went off in my head for my cat-on-a-diet, to make him some low-calorie turkey mix to feed 3-4 meals per week instead of the higher-fat mixes I normally make.

1. Do you use ground meats from the grocery for your raw cat food?
2. If you're not using them, would you be opposed to using them?

 

[mizzely]

I'm wondering this too as a local shop has ground venison for almost half the price of Hare Today without even adding shipping.

 

[orange&white]

The turkey that's on sale is USA processed and frozen in 1lb chubs (80/20 lean-fat), not the fresh ground turkey that's sitting out in the refrigerator case. I'm thinking that makes it safer from a bacteria standpoint.

 

[silverpersian]

I don't feed ground meats from the store, for two reasons: I try to use coarser grinds, and I have concerns about bacteria. The latter is not substantiated with any hard data about bacterial loads.

The USA processing and being frozen in small quantities would make a difference to me if I were considering the turkey you are describing.

Given what I know about the feline digestive tract, I would feed that turkey. Most cats are pretty good about "sniffing out" meat that has gone bad, so one option could be to buy one chub and see if they eat it.

 

[orange&white]

Yes, the increased bacteria risk is the main thing that makes me squeamish about using it. I will buy some for the dog since dogs will eat a dead carcass over 3-5 days, so I have less worries about bacteria with a canine.

There was a 2013 Consumer Report about turkey feces and antibiotic-resistant bacteria found in 90% of ground turkey. I searched for each bacteria + the words "cat infection", and none of the bacteria which were found in ground turkey are common health concerns for felines (I expect an especially heavy load might cause illness). I'm not sure if turkey processors changed their methods after that article got a lot of publicity.

 

[dhammagirl]

While I have some concerns about the bacteria, my main reason for not using grocery store ground meat is they tend to have stuff added, like rosemary or salt or vinegar. You have to look for tiny print, but I found it on all the grocery store ground turkey I looked at except for a specialty, natural, organic brand, and it was rather expensive.
Even the pieces of turkey and chicken will often have these additives.

 

[silverpersian]

Yes, the increased bacteria risk is the main thing that makes me squeamish about using it. I will buy some for the dog since dogs will eat a dead carcass over 3-5 days, so I have less worries about bacteria with a canine.

There was a 2013 Consumer Report about turkey feces and antibiotic-resistant bacteria found in 90% of ground turkey. I searched for each bacteria + the words "cat infection", and none of the bacteria which were found in ground turkey are common health concerns for felines (I expect an especially heavy load might cause illness). I'm not sure if turkey processors changed their methods after that article got a lot of publicity.

YIKES! That is disturbing. I wonder if the grinds I buy from vendors specializing in raw food for pets have the same issues. If they are whole animal grinds, the feces may not have been expelled from the animal before grinding.

I have never had problems with the grinds from mypetcarnivore. I have been purchasing exclusively and regularly from them for almost four years now.

 

[amysuen]

Ew, that's gross! Our (human) girls won't eat beef or pork so we eat a lot of ground turkey.

 

[orange&white]

YIKES! That is disturbing. I wonder if the grinds I buy from vendors specializing in raw food for pets have the same issues. If they are whole animal grinds, the feces may not have been expelled from the animal before grinding.

I have never had problems with the grinds from mypetcarnivore. I have been purchasing exclusively and regularly from them for almost four years now.

I do think that healthy cats can tolerate all the bacteria they found in the turkey after looking up each type of bacteria.

Many of the vendors who specialize in raw foods do their own processing in-house, so I would think they would be "cleaner" than mass-volume US meat processing plants. Plus they would end up on published recall lists since the food is intended to be served raw. Conversely, turkey meant for human consumption in a grocery store is assumed that it will be cooked hot enough to kill bacteria...so lower chance of a recall.

 

[orange&white]

Plus...if a cat catches a bird...it will usually eat the whole bird intestines and all.

 

[amysuen]

Plus...if a cat catches a bird...it will usually eat the whole bird intestines and all.

I was thinking "They lick their own and others' butts..."

Do you think the bacteria is less of a concern if the meat is cooked? We're not doing raw - yet.

 

[orange&white]

I was thinking "They lick their own and others' butts..."

Do you think the bacteria is less of a concern if the meat is cooked? We're not doing raw - yet.

Yes, cooking destroys the bacteria, but also reduces the potency of some nutrients and reduces the natural water from the meat which then needs to be replaced with additional supplements and added water. I think you are following a balanced cooked-food recipe with supplements, and incorporating the cooking water back into the food?

 

[LTS3]

While I have some concerns about the bacteria, my main reason for not using grocery store ground meat is they tend to have stuff added, like rosemary or salt or vinegar. You have to look for tiny print, but I found it on all the grocery store ground turkey I looked at except for a specialty, natural, organic brand, and it was rather expensive.
Even the pieces of turkey and chicken will often have these additives.

Yes, you have to be careful with store ground meats as they can contain flavorings, salt solutions, and other things in them. Read the tiny print or, if it's a brand name product like Shady Brook Farms, look on the company's web site or contact them directly.

A butcher who does farm-to-table meats or even a farmer who sells directly to customers at a farmer's market and other places might be an option to get ground meat but it may also be more costly.

 

[orange&white]

Yes, this product is 100% "natural" turkey with no additives. It is the $1/lb sale price that is tempting me to use it. Whole meat turkey and turkey parts are cheap right before Thanksgiving through Christmas and are "stupidly" priced every other time of year.

I'd love to buy organic, free-range, and grass-fed meats for the pets and for myself, but with going through 40 pounds of meat every month just for pet food, it's out of the question.

 

[amysuen]

Yes, cooking destroys the bacteria, but also reduces the potency of some nutrients and reduces the natural water from the meat which then needs to be replaced with additional supplements and added water. I think you are following a balanced cooked-food recipe with supplements, and incorporating the cooking water back into the food?

I'm following Dr. Pierson's recipe with the supplements she recommends. I'm including all the liquid from cooking the meat and pressure cooking the bones, plus more additional water than the recipe calls for. Then before serving I warm the food and add more water until it's "slurry" consistency.

Gradually I'll decrease the cook time until it's half raw like she recommends, and either get a grinder or cut up small bones so they get raw bones instead of pressure cooked. But right now I'm just glad they're all eating it!

 

[orange&white]

I'm following Dr. Pierson's recipe with the supplements she recommends. I'm including all the liquid from cooking the meat and pressure cooking the bones, plus more additional water than the recipe calls for. Then before serving I warm the food and add more water until it's "slurry" consistency.

Gradually I'll decrease the cook time until it's half raw like she recommends, and either get a grinder or cut up small bones so they get raw bones instead of pressure cooked. But right now I'm just glad they're all eating it!

Yes, I knew you were "doing it right" from your other thread. So nothing to worry over.

 

[maureen brad]

Honestly, I would not use pre-ground grocery store meats. The grocer assumes you will cook that meat and so, is not worried about bacteria.I also worry about feeding cats(or people for that matter) any meats from animals raised on anti-biotics.

 

[orange&white]

I've been researching to see if the poultry/meat processing industries have taken any steps to clean up bacteria since Cargil had to recall 37 million pounds of fresh and frozen turkey in 2012, and the Consumer Reports expose in 2013 about 90% of ground turkey being infected with fecal matter and antibiotic-resistant bacteria.

It appears that many processors are using HPP technology to effectively "sanitize" and extend the shelf-life of meats.

Excerpt from article, Strengthening meat safety | MEAT+POULTRY:
"Whether they advertise it or not, most of the larger meat and poultry processors use HPP in one product or another, Barnard claims.

“The most well-known are Hormel with the Natural Choice product line, Applegate Farms sliced RTE products and Perdue Short Cuts chicken strips,” he adds. “Jennie-O processes their ground turkey chubs with HPP. Costco, HEB, Whole Foods and even Walmart want clean-label products for their store brands.” "

The frozen "natural" turkey I'm looking at is the HEB store brand, so I'm feeling fairly comfortable that is has been HPP processed to kill off bacteria and is safe to use.

Of course, now I can't let a silver lining get away without finding a cloud. The HPP process works by denaturing proteins (breaking covalent bonds), essentially resulting in cellular death in the meat. So I'm wondering now if I wouldn't prefer natural live-cell proteins in meat even if that means a few fairly nasty bacteria live there. Just can't win.

Anyway, I'm going to mix a low-cal turkey "diet food" to feed Tangent 3-4 meals per week (out of 14), and the rest of his meals will be the regular higher-calorie pork/chicken chunk mix I'm making for him and the growing kitten.

 

[orange&white]

This morning, I mixed 1lb of partially-defrosted ground turkey with chicken hearts, gizzards, liver, egg yolk and supplements (Taurine, egg shell powder, B-complex, Vit-E, and extra water). That produced nine - 2.5 oz servings I'm freezing in muffin tins, plus 1.8 ounce extra food that I will offer Tangent as part of tonight's dinner. We'll see if he likes it. Otherwise, I just made nine "turkey muffin" treats for the Corgi dog.

 

[amysuen]

This morning, I mixed 1lb of partially-defrosted ground turkey with chicken hearts, gizzards, liver, egg yolk and supplements (Taurine, egg shell powder, B-complex, Vit-E, and extra water). That produced nine - 2.5 oz servings I'm freezing in muffin tins, plus 1.8 ounce extra food that I will offer Tangent as part of tonight's dinner. We'll see if he likes it. Otherwise, I just made nine "turkey muffin" treats for the Corgi dog.

Is the egg shell powder instead of bones?

I have a feeling the 9 lbs of cat food I made Wednesday isn't going to last a whole week like I'd hoped...