Going To Make Dr. Piersons Recipe Tomorrow, Anyone Have Any Problems With It?

[1 bruce 1]

Going to schedule an appointment with my vet for my older cat. Are there really any tests that I can ask to be performed? I know a blood test doesn't really show anything.

I'm pretty sure I'll get banned but if this were my cat, I would go back to square one and transition more gradually and save the recipes and supplements and eggs and oils and organs to add in over time, vs. giving it all to her at once.
I would also keep the vet appointment for peace of mind, ignore the vets outcry on raw diets and return home and start with a single protein source, boneless (cooked if you feel better about it) and then gradually add in bone, then gradually add in organs, then gradually add in other protein sources.
I think recipes are a great idea and the recipe is a good one, but some cats don't seem to tolerate all the ingredients thrown into the mix during a switch and do better if one thing is introduced.
I personally don't worry about nutritional imbalances unless it's a very unbalanced diet fed over a long period of time with no interest in supplementing or varying. If she's getting a recipe, it may be too much, too quick for her.
Hope I don't step on any toes. =/

 

[orange&white]

I disagree with you, but never feel like my toes have been stepped on because someone else's opinion is different than mine.

I will respectfully defend my opinion that a cat transitioning to a raw diet should transition with a properly balanced recipe. As an analogy, let's say that canned cat foods were processed such that one can had meat or meat by-products only, and another had only the nutritional supplements, and a third had gravies, fillers and flavor enhancers that were the only ingredients that smelled good enough for the cat to eat. Now cat owners would need instructions to use 80% of a can of the meat, 10% of the can of nutrients, and 10% of the can of "good flavorings". It would certainly be confusing, but if that was what was required to give the cat a "complete and balanced" diet, most people would do it. Starting with one product, then building up to a balanced diet, would more likely cause poor health side effects than just offering a product that has everything the cat should have.

 

[orange&white]

Maybe I should just put in one and a half pound of chicken thigh(no bone) to balance it out? Do you think it's still a bone problem? Her stool also still smells really bad.

If you've already made the batches, I wouldn't worry about it. I think you figured out how to balance the chicken, so the rabbit may be slightly too high in bone, but 15% is all right, and the 10% bone in the chicken thigh portion will average that bone amount downward.

If either kitty goes the opposite direction and gets constipated, then you might add little more boneless.

 

[orange&white]

Going to schedule an appointment with my vet for my older cat. Are there really any tests that I can ask to be performed? I know a blood test doesn't really show anything.

I would primarily let him know about the chronic diarrhea and the very stinky poop. You probably want to take a stool sample in for testing. As mentioned earlier, giardia and coccidia often have false negatives, so you may specifically want to ask the vet about those possibilities. Other than that, your vet is the best person to know which tests may be helpful.

 

[1 bruce 1]

I disagree with you, but never feel like my toes have been stepped on because someone else's opinion is different than mine.

I will respectfully defend my opinion that a cat transitioning to a raw diet should transition with a properly balanced recipe. As an analogy, let's say that canned cat foods were processed such that one can had meat or meat by-products only, and another had only the nutritional supplements, and a third had gravies, fillers and flavor enhancers that were the only ingredients that smelled good enough for the cat to eat. Now cat owners would need instructions to use 80% of a can of the meat, 10% of the can of nutrients, and 10% of the can of "good flavorings". It would certainly be confusing, but if that was what was required to give the cat a "complete and balanced" diet, most people would do it. Starting with one product, then building up to a balanced diet, would more likely cause poor health side effects than just offering a product that has everything the cat should have.

I get that, I really do =) But with this kitties medical history sometimes, those with a bad start have weakened immune/gut reactions and the full recipe method doesn't work, at least not right away.
My cats did VERY well on a balanced recipe switch; we went from dry, to canned, to ground raw to to partial ground/whole with no issues, but the only cat of ours that has immune problems didn't handle raw well at all. We tried plain protein, boneless, extra organs, to no avail but a partial cooked/commercial canned is "where it's at" for this dude.
Another one (like the OP's kitten) showed up in really rough shape and raw didn't happen (it was barfed up, and hoarked up raw rabbit is super gross and stains rug BTW) but the slow method worked for her. She was also free of parasites and put on Viralys (by our vet) for problems due to her poor condition when we got her, I do feel the Viralys helped.

 

[1 bruce 1]

If you've already made the batches, I wouldn't worry about it. I think you figured out how to balance the chicken, so the rabbit may be slightly too high in bone, but 15% is all right, and the 10% bone in the chicken thigh portion will average that bone amount downward.

If either kitty goes the opposite direction and gets constipated, then you might add little more boneless.

As a side note, we have dogs AND cats, and for cats that are straining to defecate (so far) a little slice of liver (1/2 tsp per cat, per meal, max) has been fondly known as "emergency rear repair" =D
We've found lessening bone and adding a bit of liver for a meal or two can loosen strained bowels up, and for our dogs that look a little "loose", adding a bit more bone can work wonders.
This IMO is why having a big freezer to keep things in bulk takes the headache out of raw feeding, as the stuff you need is there and there's no need to go into to store or butcher to order emergency food stuffs! =)

 

[orange&white]

Certainly, different approaches for different cats. I think the best next step is a vet's opinion, not necessarily about what the cat should be eating, but why the soft stinky poop. (I never talk to my vet about feline nutrition; like most vets, he didn't study diet, but he usually has a "cure" for injuries and illness.)

If the vet can't find anything, I think I'd try a prebiotic/probiotic with the raw mix.

 

[saleri]

Certainly, different approaches for different cats. I think the best next step is a vet's opinion, not necessarily about what the cat should be eating, but why the soft stinky poop. (I never talk to my vet about feline nutrition; like most vets, he didn't study diet, but he usually has a "cure" for injuries and illness.)

If the vet can't find anything, I think I'd try a prebiotic/probiotic with the raw mix.

So good news! Vet said she's all good! Plus her stool has become soft and looks fine. I got a glove and felt it, and it felt kinda like Ferrero Rocher Fine Hazelnut Chocolates minus the inside filling when you crushed it.

So I think in the future I'm going to focus a bit more on rabbit since my two kittens seem clearly to like the rabbit a lot more then the chicken. I currently get my rabbit from Haretoday

Product | Hare Today, Gone Tomorrow

for 5 pounds I get 75% meat 15% bone and 10% organ.

I foolishly with this batch of rabbit realized Dr. Pierson recommended also adding chicken thigh to this recipe.

So I think I'll add 2 pounds of rabbit and 0.75 pounds of chicken thigh with the skin. Any thoughts on changes I should make? I know to add less salt with this batch.

 

[orange&white]

So good news! Vet said she's all good! Plus her stool has become soft and looks fine.

So I think I'll add 2 pounds of rabbit and 0.75 pounds of chicken thigh with the skin. Any thoughts on changes I should make? I know to add less salt with this batch.

Nope, as far as changes. Those are the recipe amounts from Pierson's site.

Happy to hear she got a good review at the vet's office!

 

[saleri]

Nope, as far as changes. Those are the recipe amounts from Pierson's site.

Happy to hear she got a good review at the vet's office!

Okay hate to bother you so much, but looking at my recipe below does it look right?

https://photos.app.goo.gl/0c16AWZcJj6ykj1I2

With the additional 3 ounces of liver it'll be 14.5% liver, 11% bone, and 82% meat. Thoughts on that?

 

[orange&white]

Your math is off, but only very slightly. Figure that the organs in the hare today rabbit carcass are 50% liver and 50% other organs. Then when you add 3 ounces of liver, you have 4.6 total ounces of liver. Then you should end up with 79.3% meat, 10.6% bone, and 10.1% liver. That is as Pierson's recipe is written.

Her recipe is no longer based on the traditional 80/10/10 - broken down further to 80/10/5/5, where 5/5 is 5% liver and 5% other organs. Personally, I would cut that 4.6 ounces of liver to 2.3 ounces of liver total (1.6 oz from the 2 lbs of rabbit and less than 1 oz additional liver), but Pierson is an expert in feline nutrition so it's hard to argue with her recipe. Also, guessing that the rabbit liver is 50% of all the organs is a guess...it may be less than that (or it may be more - the liver is one of the largest organs). Sorry...I know it's confusing because not everything has been researched, so some of balancing a raw diet comes down to guesswork. Fortunately, there is a range of safety for components.

Anyway, use the precise recipe as written or cut back a bit on the additional liver. I think you'll be within the "range" of a good balance.

 

[saleri]

Your math is off, but only very slightly. Figure that the organs in the hare today rabbit carcass are 50% liver and 50% other organs. Then when you add 3 ounces of liver, you have 4.6 total ounces of liver. Then you should end up with 79.3% meat, 10.6% bone, and 10.1% liver. That is as Pierson's recipe is written.

Her recipe is no longer based on the traditional 80/10/10 - broken down further to 80/10/5/5, where 5/5 is 5% liver and 5% other organs. Personally, I would cut that 4.6 ounces of liver to 2.3 ounces of liver total (1.6 oz from the 2 lbs of rabbit and less than 1 oz additional liver), but Pierson is an expert in feline nutrition so it's hard to argue with her recipe. Also, guessing that the rabbit liver is 50% of all the organs is a guess...it may be less than that (or it may be more - the liver is one of the largest organs). Sorry...I know it's confusing because not everything has been researched, so some of balancing a raw diet comes down to guesswork. Fortunately, there is a range of safety for components.

Anyway, use the precise recipe as written or cut back a bit on the additional liver. I think you'll be within the "range" of a good balance.

Yeah when I said 14.5% liver, I really meant 14.5% of liver and other organs. So instead of adding 3 extra ounces of liver, just add 1 extra ounce of liver for every 2.25 pounds of meant? I did show this to other people, and they said I used too much liver.

 

[orange&white]

It is hard to argue with Dr. Pierson since she is one of the very few vets who has concentrated decades of her career on the study of feline nutrition. On the other hand, you always need to use your best judgment.

The "unknown" variable here is what percentage of total rabbit organs comes from liver. You could split the difference and add 2 ounces.

 

[saleri]

It is hard to argue with Dr. Pierson since she is one of the very few vets who has concentrated decades of her career on the study of feline nutrition. On the other hand, you always need to use your best judgment.

The "unknown" variable here is what percentage of total rabbit organs comes from liver. You could split the difference and add 2 ounces.

Hello,

Okay I'll just add 2 ounces and not 3. All the other supplements here look good though?

https://photos.google.com/share/AF1...?key=dHBSZUgyZVNDcjBiMlJ0ZWJ5d21tc2JRem5tcEtB


I'm honestly thinking of just feeding my cats this from now on instead of having one chicken only and one chicken/rabbit. Do you think that'll be a problem? Will they get bored of eating this chicken/rabbit combination for the rest of their lives? Will give some chicken hearts, gizzards, sashimi, etc as treats once in a while I suppose.

 

[orange&white]

Hard to say if they'll get bored. I like to rotate so that my cats don't get their taste buds set on one flavor. That's just a precaution in case they were to develop an allergy/intolerance to a particular protein and I need to cut something out. Also rotating can help average out those unknown variables.

...but you figure a bunch of cats in the world eat nothing but the same kibble or the same canned food their entire lives...so I think your kitties would be better off with the same raw mix rather than the same processed food.

Pros and cons to everything.

 

[saleri]

Hard to say if they'll get bored. I like to rotate so that my cats don't get their taste buds set on one flavor. That's just a precaution in case they were to develop an allergy/intolerance to a particular protein and I need to cut something out. Also rotating can help average out those unknown variables.

...but you figure a bunch of cats in the world eat nothing but the same kibble or the same canned food their entire lives...so I think your kitties would be better off with the same raw mix rather than the same processed food.

Pros and cons to everything.

Hello,

Okay thanks for all the help!

 

[jstie]

I also don't reheat. My cats are fine with fridge-temp raw, and I feel more comfortable feeding them raw at that temperature (even though they scarf it down within 10 minutes anyways). But if your cats prefer warm, you can put the meat into a plastic bag and run under warm water. Some people microwave briefly, but I'm not comfortable with that since doing so causes hot spots in the food.

Two of my cats tend to barf if the food is cold. I put the serving on a ceramic plate and microwave for no more than 7 or 8 seconds, then stir it gently. That's just enough to take the chill off and doesn't create hot spots.

 

[saleri]

Hard to say if they'll get bored. I like to rotate so that my cats don't get their taste buds set on one flavor. That's just a precaution in case they were to develop an allergy/intolerance to a particular protein and I need to cut something out. Also rotating can help average out those unknown variables.

...but you figure a bunch of cats in the world eat nothing but the same kibble or the same canned food their entire lives...so I think your kitties would be better off with the same raw mix rather than the same processed food.

Pros and cons to everything.

By the way, not sure if I asked, but do you feed your cats treats? Just got them of temptations and need to find something else.

 

[saleri]

Two of my cats tend to barf if the food is cold. I put the serving on a ceramic plate and microwave for no more than 7 or 8 seconds, then stir it gently. That's just enough to take the chill off and doesn't create hot spots.

Yeah normally I have the frozen food in the refrigerator for at least a whole day, and after 24 hours their defrosted enough to feed. So I usually don't have to microwave at all.

 

[orange&white]

By the way, not sure if I asked, but do you feed your cats treats? Just got them of temptations and need to find something else.

One of my cats doesn't like treats and will only eat his raw meals.

Two of the kitties enjoy cracklins'. I always have lots of chicken skin and trimmed pork and beef fats left over from making their food, so I render the liquid fat off, leaving the crunchy bits of solids. They enjoy those.

The feral cat who I thought I'd only see occasionally after TNR gets 8-10 pieces of grain-free kitten kibble as training treats. I bought it so I could offer her some food whenever she came around, but she decided to move in permanently and eats 3 meals of raw food with the other cats. When this kibble is gone, I won't be buying anymore.