Frustrated, Cat With Kidney Disease, Starting To Eat And Drink, But Has Been Sick

mrsgreenjeens

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OK, take deep breaths and try not to panic. If they are putting her on IV fluids rather than simply doing sub-qs, then it sounds like she is crashing, but they CAN come back from that. I'll be honest, at this point it's 50/50. Here is an exerpt from Tanya's website about kidney cats in crisis:

Cat in Crisis: Very High Numbers and/or Receiving Intravenous Fluids (IV)

Since it is so hard to diagnose CKD early (see What Happens in CKD? to understand why), your cat may be in crisis at diagnosis. Please do not be too despondent if this is the case, particularly if your cat has crashed and is on a drip, as happened to Thomas. Many cats have horrendous bloodwork at diagnosis, or may experience a sudden crisis after having CKD for a while, which is often a reflection of severe dehydration. The true bloodwork values will not be apparent until your cat is rehydrated and stabilised, either via sub-Qs for less critical cases or via IV for more severe ones.

For cats who are in crisis, there is usually a trigger of some kind, such as:

All of these can make the cat and the bloodwork look terrible, but once you get the situation under control, you may well find that the cat's condition greatly improves and the bloodwork may also improve, sometimes quickly, or sometimes over a period of several weeks.

Some cats with very high numbers will actually be suffering from acute kidney injury (AKI) rather than CKD, or possibly acute on chronic kidney disease. Whilst AKI is difficult to treat, if treatment is successful the cat may actually make a complete recovery.

Cats with severe anaemia (PCV or HCT below 20%) often appear extremely ill, but usually feel and look dramatically better once the anaemia is under control.

There are a variety of possible outcomes for a cat who has crashed and is on IV with extremely high bloodwork values:

  1. The cat's numbers improve on IV and the cat looks and acts better, and continues to do well at home.
  1. The cat's numbers do not improve on IV, but the cat nevertheless acts better, and the numbers gradually reduce at home (usually with sub-Q therapy).
  1. The cat's numbers do not improve on IV or with sub-Qs, but the cat acts better and continues to do well at home despite the high numbers.
  1. The cat's numbers do not improve on IV, and the cat continues to act ill once s/he is home, and is put to sleep.
  1. The cat's numbers do or do not improve on IV, but the cat crashes again once at home.
Obviously I cannot predict to which category your cat might belong, but it is usually worth trying treatments. Yes, not every CKD cat can be saved; but euthanasia is an irrevocable decision so you need to be very sure, and for most people that means giving their cat every chance. Dr SP DiBartola has stated "Don't pass judgement on a lethargic dehydrated cat with markedly abnormal laboratory results. 2 to 3 days of conscientious intravenous fluid therapy can produce remarkable results."

For a severely ill cat, one or two days on IV are simply not going to be long enough. Thomas was on IV for four solid days and nights, and only began to eat a little on day 3. Also, Thomas's numbers did not improve at all on IV fluids. He had urea of 89 mmol/l (BUN: 241 mg/dl) at diagnosis, and it was the same after four days and nights of IV. Some cats will actually have numbers which worsen while on IV fluids. Try not to panic! Your cat did not get this sick overnight, and s/he won't necessarily get better in only 2-3 days. In Thomas's case, my vet suspected he would fall into category 4 of my possible scenarios above, but in fact he was in the second category. He was acting a little better by the end of the four days on IV fluids, and with home treatments over a few weeks we eventually reduced his numbers to urea 27 mmol/l (BUN: 76 mg/dl) and creatinine 316 µmol/l (US: 3.57 mg/dl), where they stabilised for some months.

So even if you are dealing with category 4, I would recommend that you make sure that your cat is given a reasonable stint on IV, and is given a reasonable chance of success at home, especially if anaemia is present. Being at the vet's is very stressful for most cats, and they often need a few days at home convalescing before they begin to act better.

In Prolonging the life of the renal failure patient (2000), Waltham Focus 10(3) pp10-14, Dr Jonathan Elliott states that "in a retrospective study, the correlation between plasma creatinine and survival in cats who presented with signs of stable CKD was very poor, with only 5% of the variation in survival time being predicted by the initial plasma creatinine concentration."

In The laboratory diagnosis of feline kidney disease (2008) Heiene R Veterinary Focus 18(2) pp16-22, Dr Heiene states "cats can sometimes, especially in cases of acute kidney injury secondary to obstructive FLUTD, develop creatinine values of 1600-1800 μmol/L (20.98-23.6 mg/dL) and yet recover."

Vet Info mentions a cat they treated who lived for eight years with CKD despite initially presenting in crisis (click on Kidney Failure - Daily Fluid Treatment).



Here is the actual webpage if you want to be able to click on any of the links: Tanya's Comprehensive Guide to Feline Chronic Kidney Disease - Is There Any Hope?

Keep us posted don her progress. Yes, there are "bags" you can put cats in to contain them where basically only their heads are out. Not sure how that works for sub-qs since you need their scruff available to insert the needle, but get the info from your Vet and have them show you how to do it, even do it there in their office with her in whatever contraption will work. You should be able to do it alone if she's contained, once you feel comfortable. Remember, you aren't hurting her, you are helping her! Just keep that in mind and be strong. There are all kinds of helpful hints on Tanya's website about giving fluids too, along with places to buy what you need for really cheap.

:vibes::vibes::vibes:
 

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Hi! I've been wondering how things are with you, are you ok today. I know it's your birthday, and I don't know if it is hopefully not a sad one?
 
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burrgandy

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Hi Everyone,
I brought my cat home. The Vet said I need to do all I can to get her to eat the kidney diet and drink water, to "buy her time". She hates the kidney diet . Her blood work shows her BUN off the chart, and creating not in a good place. She is not going to get better. If I can get her eating, and keep her drinking like they did while she was at the animal hospital, I will be doing good to buy her more time. She can't eat Friskies or it will not keep her around because she is that fragile. I need REAL help now. You all are so Amazing. Thank you.
 

Furballsmom

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Did the distilled water work?
Would ice cubes in the water work?
Are you allowed to try enticements with the kidney food?

Check with your vet, and see if they ok any of the following;
Some of these things below have been mentioned already, sorry about duplication.

Try feeding in different locations - really, completely different, and utilize different heights. For example put a couple of books underneath the dish, next time use two thick phone books, or a small-ish box so the heights are varied....

Maybe there is something that might help here;

Sit with your cat and scoop some food on your finger or a spoon and hopefully your kitty will lick it. Or gently tuck some food inside the cheek.

Try some raw egg yolk. Egg white must always be cooked, and some people cook the white and make a slurry of sorts by adding in the raw yolk.

Also you could try some Nutri-cal or similar product.

Try making these recipes - they're just as viable for an adult cat as for kittens;
Kitten-Rescue.com

These below can be used on their own or combined with food. Also, if you heat the food a little - stir it so there aren't any hot spots from the microwave.

Or you could heat some water, about a tablespoon, and add that to canned food. A small glass works to stir it all up.
  • Chicken, beef or ham flavored (pureed) baby food such as Gerber Stage 2 - make sure there is no garlic or onions in the ingredients
  • Tuna and/or the juice, a low mercury/low/no sodium brand is called SafeCatch
  • Salmon, mackerel
  • Sardines (make sure there are no bones)
  • boiled cut up chicken or turkey with no seasonings
  • canned kitten food any brand
  • Try mixing in Kitten Milk Replacer - there are recipes on the internet or store bought
  • Fish, tuna or BBQ flavored canned wet food (I personally have never seen BBQ flavors, but...)
  • Lickable cat treats or pouch treat 'gravy' poured over the food
  • kitten glop (recipes in website link above)
  • Bonito flakes
  • fortiflora
  • fish oil
  • green beans, asparagus mushed up, lettuce, applesauce, mashed chickpeas, black olives
  • whipped topping such as reddiwhip
  • dry pasta
  • goat milk, or no lactose cow milk
  • whole cooked eggs (the white must always be cooked) or raw egg yolk now and then
  • broth with no salt and no garlic or onion or seasonings of any kind
  • There are also commercial toppers, Applaws is a brand that can work well as a topper
  • Some good treats would be freeze dried Purebites, Orijen, Meowtinis, Meowables, Only Natural Pet, Primal
  • There are also Lickimats that you could spread types of soft food onto, even plain unflavored yogurt, and even freeze it. Licking something can help a cat to feel better emotionally The LickiMat - Food Puzzles for Cats
  • shredded cheddar cheese, string cheese
 

Jem

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Which kidney diet did the vet give you? There are a few different ones on the market. New research was done with kidney diets and the purina pro plan brand of prescription food has more protein in it, but still low phosphorus, that might make it more palatable to her.
There is also several different flavors and textures of the royal canin in wet foods (I think there are 4 different ones?) and 3 different ones in dry.

The thing with kidney cats is they often associate their ill feeling to their food, so they may eat something once then turn their nose at it the second time. It's good to keep several options on hand to rotate thru to encourage continued eating.

Also, I just want to clarify something you've said. The IV fluids don't jump start the kidneys, the fluids flush out the kidneys. That's why sub-Qs are so important, because no cat can drink enough water on their own, when the kidneys function is so low, to keep the toxicity levels down/kidney's flushed.
Of course, among other things, like dental problems, the build up of toxins, because the kidneys don't filter properly causes a kidney cat to stop eating. So if the IV treatment worked to get her eating again. I HIGHLY URGE you to consider finding a way to do the sub-Q fluids. I did fluids on my cat for close to three years. It was THE thing that kept him eating, unless he got a mouth abscess (which is common for kidney cats), then a simple round of antibiotics got him going again.

You may be surprised how well she'll handle the fluids. Try to do it in the vet's office. Have them watch you do it, so you feel more comfortable with your technique. And I promise you, cats take needles very well, so you don't have to worry about hurting them when it's done correctly (and even if you flub a bit - which I did on many occasions! :eek2: :) ). I found that it was the "trying to keep him still" that upset my cat, not the actual giving of fluids. So it's a matter of finding a way that keeps her comfy. My cat liked to lay on a specific pillow, and get chin scratches, but if it did not do this, he would try to get away. Also if the fluids were too cold he would squirm. I know I don't know your cat and I'll admit that my cat, in general, was pretty easy to deal with, but it can be done. You may just have to try a few times to find what works for you and your kitty.
I completely understand and empathize with what your dealing with. CKD is not for the faint of heart, but I'm holding out hope that you will find a way. And I'm sending you positive and healing thoughts that your kitty comes thru this "crash" and lives a comfortable few more years and that you find some peace thru all of this.

Also, check out this website
https://catinfo.org/docs/CatFoodProteinFatCarbPhosphorusChart.pdf

It includes a list with the phosphorus content of several varieties of wet food. If you can't get her to eat the prescription foods (but still try all the different brands and flavors first) you may at least find a low phosphorus food she will eat. Because no matter what, ANY food is better than NO food right now. You may be able to find a few that you can mix with the prescription food to entice her. And if you find different flavors, and rotate them at every meal, she will hopefully keep eating.

I hope all this helps!
 

mrsgreenjeens

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As Jem Jem stated, try mixing just a little bit of the kidney food with her Friskies and see if she'll eat it. If that works, then gradually add more and more of the kidney food into it until finally it's all kidney food! It may take a week or two, but it's better than nothing. And as she said, there are quite a afew different kidney foods, different brands even, different flavors, and different textures, so you aren't stuck wth just one. And use thata chart she provided. There are several foods out there that are low phosphorus even though they are not prescription. If you absolutely cannot get her to eat the kidney diet, then talk to your Vet about usng phosphorus binders if necessary. What about Vitamin B shots? Is she getting any? That helps improve their appetite. So does appetite enhancers. Is she on any of those? I still find it odd that she isn't drinking tons of water on her own. All of my kidney cats were always at their fountain drinking. One of mine would immediately go to his water bowl right after getting his sub-q fluids even. I always figured it was more of a comfort type thing for him :catrub:

As to giving fluids, I used to warm up a fluffy bath towel in the dryer for several minutes before I did them, while I was warming up the fluids. Then I would wrap up the cat in the warm towel to give the fluids. That way they would be "contained" in a nice warm comfy "blankie" on my lap while getting their drip. I hung the bag as high as possible so it flowed quickly and before we knew it, voila, it was done. Half the time they rarely knew what hit 'em.
 
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burrgandy

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My cat has been home a week yesterday. Water intake has declined, and so has her appetite. I'm not sure if I should force her to take her appetite stimulant? I'm crying a lot. Her inner eye lids are starting to show. I can't handle making a decision to put her down. I had to make a decision not to recessitate my late son, and I still question if it was the right decision as I watched him die, wanting to keep him alive ! I have PTSD, and my cat has been my life since losing my little boy . I thought if she was going to pass away, she would go quietly in her sleep... I HATE CKD! !!! I took her off grains before she got sick with this nightmare. Can I keep her comfortable at home without putting her down ? I am crying, and having an anxiety attack.
 

mrsgreenjeens

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What did the Vet tell you when they sent her home, other than get her to eat the kidney food and drink more? I still don't understand why she isn't drinking on her own, as with every kidney cat I've had, it seems they were constantly at either their fountain or their water dish drinking, drinking, drinking. I certainly never needed to TRY to get them to drink more. Did your Vet say why they thought she wasn't drinking?

Here is another section of Tanya's website, this is one about "the end", just to point out signs to look for, but some of them are things that can happen all during the cycle, so it can be tricky. Tanya's Comprehensive Guide to Feline Chronic Kidney Disease - The Final Hours
Since your little girl's third eyelids are showing, this sounds like something else is happening right now. None of mine ever had that happen either :dunno:. But I let them go before it got to the point where they might suffer unduly, so it's possible that might have happened if I'd let them die at home, I just don't know.

I'd give the Vet a call and tell them about her third eyelid showing and see if they think possibly something else is brewing. There are so many related issues with kidney disease that it would be easy for something else to go haywire :frown:. I know it's difficult, especially after the loss of your son, but I also know you don't want her to suffer :hugs:. Is she having more bad days than good? That's really the defining line :sigh:, since, unfortunately, this isn't something that will go away :sniffle:.

:vibes::vibes::vibes: :hugs: :vibes::vibes::vibes:
 

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My cat has been home a week yesterday. Water intake has declined, and so has her appetite. I'm not sure if I should force her to take her appetite stimulant? I'm crying a lot. Her inner eye lids are starting to show. I can't handle making a decision to put her down. I had to make a decision not to recessitate my late son, and I still question if it was the right decision as I watched him die, wanting to keep him alive ! I have PTSD, and my cat has been my life since losing my little boy . I thought if she was going to pass away, she would go quietly in her sleep... I HATE CKD! !!! I took her off grains before she got sick with this nightmare. Can I keep her comfortable at home without putting her down ? I am crying, and having an anxiety attack.
I’m so sorry what you’re going through. I had a cat die from kidney disease last year. We let him die on his own, at home. He didn’t appear to suffer. I’ve read cats could go into seizures at the end but that never happened. My cat refused the kidney food also. He was 17. How old is your kitty?
 
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burrgandy

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Thank you so much. My cat is 11. I thought she was older, but realize she isn’t. This hurts so bad. She isn’t gone yet, but my heart is breaking.
 
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burrgandy

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Our cats don't deserve this !! Why do so many cats get this? She is my "happiness ", but I might have to make a decision, that I don't want to, because she is not getting better.
 

mrsgreenjeens

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No cat deserves to get sick. No child either. But bad things happen to innocents, unfortunately :frown::alright:. Too, too often.

It's my personal opinion that most cats get kidney disease from the food they eat, but that isn't always the case. All three of my kidney cats were fed kibble for most of their lives, and I like to blame that on their issues. But I finally wised up and switched to feeding a species appropriate (raw) diet to my furbabies, and wouldn't you know it, it looks like another one may have the beginnings of kidney disease. I also switched from tap water to filtered water several years ago, even adding same filtered water to their food just to make sure they are really well hydrated at all times. Apparently these things are not working. So what is causing this in my own cats? Now I can only think it's something environmental and we don't even have carpet on our floors. But even things like Glade Plug-ins, scented candles, etc. can effect our furry friends. Things we use to clean the house can be bad. They are very sensitive creatures.
 
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burrgandy

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What are the answers? Losing my child , now making another decision, which is tough , but, this disease is not forgiving . I never thought about dialysis , like my uncles. She and my late son used to really play rough. He would bring out mittens so he wouldn't get scratched! Pretty soon, I would see her running, and him chasing her. As soon as he sat down , she would ambush him! It was funny. She owns me too.... My house is going to be really empty. She is my "happiness ".
 

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I'm so sorry you're going through such a tough time. Making that decision is not at all easy; I just went through it a few days ago with my heart kitty. mrsgreenjeens mrsgreenjeens posted a link above to Tanya's CKD guide. I know that website has great food nutritional information. You can copy and paste the entire table into an Excel spreadsheet, then filter or sort it by certain nutritional criteria if you're familiar with Excel's functions. I'm not familiar with what the nutritional restrictions for kidney are (other than "low" phosphorous), but if the website also provides information (specific numbers) for those criteria, maybe you can find some commercially available wet foods that your kitty might be interested in over the prescription kidney diet.
 
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burrgandy

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My cat is no longer eating Weasel21 Weasel21 . She is hovering the water dish, then drinks. Nothing seems to appeal to her right now. She is pretty sick. The vet told me on my birthday, she only had weeks to live, if that. Thank you for your kind words, Everyone. My mind is running a million miles an hour, my Heart is breaking, knowing her time is running out. I’m sure the Vet will tell me, what I already know. My cat cannot just “exist “. She can barely walk, she is so weak. CKD is a Ruthless disease!
 
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