Freya has weird neurological/mental issues

silent meowlook

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Oh no!! Poor Freya!!! Yes, the blood draw if done brutal could cause that in an extreme event, I believe.
please remember that no cat is ever angry in a veterinary setting. It is sheer panic and terror that causes them to get vocal or fight back. Never anger. Unless you mean the veterinarian’s anger in that instance. I don’t know why veterinarians that cannot respect cats continue to attempt to manhandle them.
I am so sorry for you and Freya.
 
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Antonio65

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Well, I wrote that Freya was angry because she turned into the wildest beast ever. She started with hissing, growling and scratching the vet. Then it turned very vocal and wanted to bite.

Freya is tiny and light, but we couldn't hold her.
The vet was being very rude, she got nervous and angry herself, she started yelling in her high-pitched voice, she grabbed Freya by her scruff and shook her. It was getting worse and worse.
Another vet arrived in help, three of us and still couldn't get her down. I was going to cry because I never saw my Freya like that, I didn't think she was even capable of that.

The rude vet was one I had never saw before, but you know how it works... They always leave unknown vets during the emergency hours.

The vets had to use the bag to contain Freya, but she managed to get free of it. It was the worst thing I ever witnessed in my life at a vet's.

When they eventually managed to take some blood for the tests, Freya let her bladder go and peed all over the rude vet.
"This serves you right!" I thought 😠

This whole nightmare lasted about 15 minutes, so I am positive that the CPK that high is due to that horrible procedure.

I'm thinking about changing clinic in the future. I've been with them for the last 6 years, but what I experienced that night is unforgettable.
 

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Did you tell the vet who'd seen Freya before that the rude vet shook her? Shaking any small creature can damage them.

Silent meow is right, that's not Freya being pissed, that's Freya fearing for her life. This is a terrible situation. Do not expect her to be anything but
terrified any time she can see or smell the rude vet, that means if the rude vet was in the room before you two go in.
 

Tigger's Mum

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They said everything was normal BUT the level of CPK.
They said this was the signal that Freya had a seizure without me noticing it.
I said that the level was way out of the range because of the extreme level of stress and anger during the blood draw.
I had never seen anything like that in any cat before. Freya is a sweetie, but the vet who took the blood was very rude that night. And this is why her CPK was that high.

They weren't able to explain why the pancreas levels were off too.
I did a quick Google search on elevated CPK. This is one of the things that came back:

What causes elevated pancreatic enzymes in cats?


"The condition has been associated with cats ingesting poisons, contracting parasitic infections or experiencing trauma like a car accident. Sometimes cats develop pancreatitis alongside inflammatory bowel disease or cholangiohepatitis (a liver disease), according to Veterinary Partner."

I'd be looking at some sort of household chemical that may cause a problem. What do you clean the litter boxes with? Do you use air fresheners, essential oils? Is Febreze in the cat litter (some of the litters here in the UK have Febreze in them - I avoid them like the plague)? Certain household plants are poisonous to cats. So many things to consider but you might well have to do a process of elimination. When she starts acting weird, think of anything you have just used.

Also think of getting a better vet. Any vet that badmouthed me or rough handled my cat would instantly get chewed into little pieces by me.
 

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The first and only time I used Febreze was the day before one of my cats had his first grand mal seizure. The vet and everyone since then has assured me there was no connection, that it was mere chance that I used the stuff within 24 hours of his first and not last seizure. They have told me I do not understand cause and effect. YMMV
 

Tigger's Mum

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The first and only time I used Febreze was the day before one of my cats had his first grand mal seizure. The vet and everyone since then has assured me there was no connection, that it was mere chance that I used the stuff within 24 hours of his first and not last seizure. They have told me I do not understand cause and effect. YMMV
I have the pet safe one but only use it occasionally and very sparingly as I'm asthmatic myself.
 

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My experience was in 2002, I don't think they had a pet safe one then, they just said it was safe for pets - on the can and at my vet's. I hope this is better.
 
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Antonio65

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Did you tell the vet who'd seen Freya before that the rude vet shook her? Shaking any small creature can damage them.
Yes, she knows that, but she believes that it was necessary.
She, too, raised her voice when she was in the room and Freya wasn't cooperating.

Do not expect her to be anything but terrified any time she can see or smell the rude vet, that means if the rude vet was in the room before you two go in.
I do hope I will never have to deal with her again. I never saw her before, hopefully I'll never see her again.
 
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Antonio65

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"The condition has been associated with cats ingesting poisons, contracting parasitic infections or experiencing trauma like a car accident. Sometimes cats develop pancreatitis alongside inflammatory bowel disease or cholangiohepatitis (a liver disease), according to Veterinary Partner."
I also read that most of the times, pancreatitis are idiopathic.

I'd be looking at some sort of household chemical that may cause a problem. What do you clean the litter boxes with?
I clean the litter box every two to three weeks, I use a quaternary ammonium salts detergent, something that I purchased about two years ago when the other cat, Giada, had giardia and the only way to get rid of it, according to what I read, was to clean the entire house daily, along with the litter box. But I rinse it very thoroughly. It's impossible that any important trace of it remains on the plastic.
Litter is vegetable, clumping.

Do you use air fresheners, essential oils?
Not at all.

Is Febreze in the cat litter (some of the litters here in the UK have Febreze in them - I avoid them like the plague)?
No, like I said, litter is vegetable, natural, soy pellets.

Certain household plants are poisonous to cats.
No plants in the house. Some plants are outside, but my cats do not have access to them, apart from the incident when the other cat chewed on a lily plant leaf, a month ago, but we intervened promptly and she's been checked three times so far and everything is fine.
That lily plant has been rehomed since.

When she starts acting weird, think of anything you have just used.
This isn't so easy, because it's not always readily clear that she's acting weird. Sometimes I might realize several hours later.

Actually, though, I can link the four "seizures" she had last year between March and May to loud and sudden noises.

Also think of getting a better vet. Any vet that badmouthed me or rough handled my cat would instantly get chewed into little pieces by me.
I am seriously thinking about changing clinic.
This was excellent, and the vet that usually follows my cat is very good. He was the only vet in the area (and I went to about 15 different clinics and practices) who was able to diagnose my previous cat, in my avatar, when she had an extremely rare disease. If it wasn't for him, I would have lost my Lola a year earlier. He's my hero!
There are a few other vets very good in there, but that night I had some bad luck and found this vet who I had never seen before.

I filed a complaint with the secretary about what happened, she said se will report it to the management.
 

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Definitely a serious complaint !!! I know that you are trying to help Freya and figure out a solution for her.
BUT the moment that the vet scruffed and shook my cat ..... I would STOP that vet and take her home.
I am not judging you, you are doing the best you can for your kitty. As a retired vet tech. who loves and knows cats. No vet or technician should EVER treat an animal that way... Its why I stopped working as a tech after five years. I couldn't take the way the pets were handled when they resisted, especially cats..... When I caught myself losing patience with the animals I knew it was time to get out.

Sorry for the long detour and rant.

I wish you the best and hope that an answer comes soon for Freya.
 

silent meowlook

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Hi,
I have quickly read through the entire thread but not slowly. I just skimmed it as it is super late where I am, and I have to sleep soon.

Is there any way this isn't seizure activity and is either fear based or pain-based behavior. The picture you posted in the beginning of the thread is a cat that looks terrified. The dilated pupils are that of a cat that is extremely fearful and maybe in pain.

There was pancreatitis discussed in this thread and if that is what she has it can be extremely painful in cats. Often times it can be idiopathic and there is never an cause discovered.

Back to the seizure like activity, think if it could be fear. Is there anything that is frightening her that you can remember that might be leading up to this behavior? Loud noises? Cats outside? Certain smells? Visitors? Anything at all?

Please find another veterinarian. There is never an excuse to fight with a cat. Nobody ever wins and the cat gets hurt. You never want the diagnostics to kill the cat. Same with any treatments, you never want to kill your cat trying to do treatments to save them. Hope this makes sense. Cat bags are obsolete and I didn't think anyone used them anymore. Sad that they do. What the vet should have done was send you home with a medication like Gabapentin and tried another day. Once a cat is upset, you cannot un upset them. They are not dogs and vet expect them to behave like dogs all the time,.
 
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Antonio65

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S silent meowlook , thanks for your post even if it is late where you are, I do appreciate it.

The photo you mention is the one I took the night she was hospitalized after the long fight with the vets to draw some blood, that's why she was terrified. She was in a state of mental confusion on her own before we went to the clinic, due to her disease, furthermore she had trouble at peeing, and this was the reason for us being at the clinic that night. I feared she was blocked and it was getting late.

The previous episodes of "seizures" were probably triggered by something. Like I said in one of my last posts, I remember that at least two episodes last year were triggered by loud and sudden noises from outside the house, one being the waste truck on a morning, the second one being a thunderstorm.
I am not able to relate the other episodes to a noise, though, so it can be something else.
In one of my posts I mention the heat cycle, this is my theory. Freya was spayed August 2021 at the age of 10 months, but my suspicion is that some ovaries tissue is still in situ, something very small that can't be detected by a scan. This would explain the cyclic occurrences.

I'm currently thinking about finding another clinic, but I can't find another one close to home and with good reviews.
 

Tigger's Mum

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I clean the litter box every two to three weeks, I use a quaternary ammonium salts detergent, something that I purchased about two years ago when the other cat, Giada, had giardia and the only way to get rid of it, according to what I read, was to clean the entire house daily, along with the litter box. But I rinse it very thoroughly. It's impossible that any important trace of it remains on the plastic.
Litter is vegetable, clumping.
This will interest you:

"Some disinfectants, including quaternary ammonium compounds, phenols, and pine oils, are known to cause severe toxicity if cats are directly exposed to them. The toxicity that can be induced by phenols (e.g. Lysol) and pine oils (e.g. Pine-Sol) is so severe that their use must be avoided in areas where cats are housed."

Also, plastic litter boxes after a while absorb urine and cleaning fluids so no matter how much you scrub and rinse them, there is still a residue. Better with stainless steel boxes. I think you can get them on Amazon. Last time I looked they were about £25, round about $30 at a rough guess. They're big boxes too.

I'm not keen on the vegetable type litter as I've read a lot of cats seem to be allergic to it. Can cause respiratory problems in some.

Also, bleach is a no-no with cats.
 

LocosMom

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My cat didn’t show neurological signs (fell down, was unable to stand and his eyes would barely open) until he was on deaths doorstep. An MRI confirmed a meningioma tumor. He had a craniotomy and though the recovery process has been rocky (medication, etc.), however, he has been running around a lot more and seems happy. He’s almost 13 and I am so thankful I decided to go through with the surgery.
 
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Antonio65

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This will interest you:

"Some disinfectants, including quaternary ammonium compounds, phenols, and pine oils, are known to cause severe toxicity if cats are directly exposed to them. The toxicity that can be induced by phenols (e.g. Lysol) and pine oils (e.g. Pine-Sol) is so severe that their use must be avoided in areas where cats are housed."

Also, plastic litter boxes after a while absorb urine and cleaning fluids so no matter how much you scrub and rinse them, there is still a residue. Better with stainless steel boxes. I think you can get them on Amazon. Last time I looked they were about £25, round about $30 at a rough guess. They're big boxes too.

I'm not keen on the vegetable type litter as I've read a lot of cats seem to be allergic to it. Can cause respiratory problems in some.

Also, bleach is a no-no with cats.
Washing anything in the house, with any detergent, leaves some residues on their surfaces. Anyone, cats and humans, will get in contact with these residues and potentially receive a damage in the long term.
But I'm sure that this isn't what happens.

When you mop the floor in the house, you should rinse with clean water several times before letting any pet walking on it
Chemicals are everywhere, even in water (bottled or from the tap), even the air is contaminated. Canned food, or dry food, is contaminated by several potentially dangerous compounds. Think of the white coating of all wet food cans. That coating is considered among the potential causes of hypethyroidism in cats.

We can't avoid chemicals in our daily life, but I believe that the important thing is how much of them we get in contact with, how often and how long.
 

Kflowers

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What the chemicals are matters a bit.

Try using white vinegar and water solution for your cleaning, also baking soda is fairly safe, just wipe up or vacuum up all the powder.

You can avoid all chemicals, but it's worth a try to avoid the ones you can.
 

neely

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When they eventually managed to take some blood for the tests, Freya let her bladder go and peed all over the rude vet.
"This serves you right!" I thought 😠
Good for Freya! As they say, "what goes around comes around."

I'm sorry I'm late to your thread and especially sorry for Freya. :hugs: I would be furious if this happened to any one of my cats and I know you are Freya's best advocate.

In the U.S. if you have a complaint about how an animal is treated you can report it to the State Veterinary Licensing Board. Does Italy have anything similar? I was wondering if there are any feline only vet clinics within driving distance of you. When our longtime vet retired we chose a feline only clinic because they are more understanding and knowledgeable about cats. Our present feline vet is an angel - she is older and only works part-time but when we were having a problem with Carleton and she was not going to be in the clinic she gave me her cell phone # and asked me to call with updates. I know it's unusual to find a vet that does this nowadays but it's also reassuring to know there are feline vets who are so dedicated to their patients.

Sending special thoughts and healing vibes for Freya. :vibes::vibes::vibes:
 
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Antonio65

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In the U.S. if you have a complaint about how an animal is treated you can report it to the State Veterinary Licensing Board. Does Italy have anything similar?
There are Veterinary Boards over here too, one each province (where the province is, unlike other countries, a small administrative subdivision: State -> Region -> Province -> Municipality).
I never filed a complaint that way, though.

I was wondering if there are any feline only vet clinics within driving distance of you.
I never heard of a cat only clinic here around. They all do both pets, some are even specialized on rabbits, birds, reptiles.
A few clinics have different entrances for cats and dogs, with two separate waiting rooms, but behind the counter the vets do both pets.

There is a vet who is mainly focused on cats, and I tried him years ago with my beloved Pallina, but he wasn't able to determine what was bothering her, so I understood that his fame was disproportionate compared to his real abilities.

Sending special thoughts and healing vibes for Freya. :vibes::vibes::vibes:
Thanks so much! :redheartpump:
 

Tigger's Mum

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Washing anything in the house, with any detergent, leaves some residues on their surfaces. Anyone, cats and humans, will get in contact with these residues and potentially receive a damage in the long term.
But I'm sure that this isn't what happens.

When you mop the floor in the house, you should rinse with clean water several times before letting any pet walking on it
Chemicals are everywhere, even in water (bottled or from the tap), even the air is contaminated. Canned food, or dry food, is contaminated by several potentially dangerous compounds. Think of the white coating of all wet food cans. That coating is considered among the potential causes of hypethyroidism in cats.

We can't avoid chemicals in our daily life, but I believe that the important thing is how much of them we get in contact with, how often and how long.
I'm asthmatic myself so have to be careful of what I use. In the UK our wet food cans don't have that white coating.

In my house we have carpeting throughout except in the kitchen and bathroom. One of the best things anyone can buy is a steam cleaner. I have a Polti which, unfortunately at the moment needs a repair. It is brilliant at cleaning just about everything and gets into little nooks and crannies that otherwise can't be reached - and it is so quick. Ideal too if you have laminate or hardwood flooring as it doesn't soak in. They can be a bit pricy depending on what brand you get but they pay themselves back over time with the money you save not having to spend out on chemical cleaning products.

Here in the UK our laws are very different to yours and many additives/chemicals used in food in America, both for humans and animals are banned.

We can't escape all chemicals but we can try and eliminate as many as possible.
 
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