Food recommendations: Pancreatitis(possibly caused by IBD), Stones, & CKD

[merlotandasti]

Basically my cat has recently had several bouts of Pancreatitis that seemingly starts to go away when I feed him foods that include rabbit or duck, but when I put him back on his Hill's CD wet food (chicken), his flare ups start to happen again & he will begin having pain & defecation issues...

My soon to be 14 year old boy has had 2 cystotomies because of calcium oxalate bladder stones. He's been on Hills cd for 4 years now. Also has kidney stones. He was diagnosed with CKD almost a year ago, but it seems to be well controlled. The big issue right now is his Pancreatitis. I have been researching diets & read food charts, but I am having a ton of trouble trying to find a food that will balance all three of these things somehow. I really wanted to try the RC rabbit or duck formulas but I can't buy them anywhere . I looked into the RC gastrointestinal food which supposedly keeps bladder stones at bay & I believe the nutrition isn't too far from where we want it to be for his kidney disease.... but it's chicken formula. I am not 100% positive that chicken is what is causing his flare ups but I have a strong feeling that it is. But I might try this anyways. I've also looked into the Hills dd duck formula & the gastrointestinal biome formula but I'm not sure how to tell if it will keep the stones away either.


I'm at a loss really. This post is to just get some ideas while I find the perfect food for my guy. He's doing very well at the moment. I mix instinct rabbit wet with some cd Hills wet for now. He's put on weight, eats well, & is in less pain so I can tell the diet is contributing to the possible IBD & Pancreatitis.

Thanks in advance for your stories, advice, recommendations, etc...


Notes:
-Pancreatitis, calcium oxalate bladder stones (already removed twice), kidney stones, & ckd have all been diagnosed
-Ibd & food sensitivity is just purely a guess on my part from what I've observed from Asti.
-I say his ckd is controlled because his numbers (bun/crea/phos) stay the same or get slightly better over time.
-he is currently on sub q fluids every other day, Prednisolone, and metronidazole/ursodil (&buprenorphine & Gabapentin when necessary during flare ups, but not normally)
-we tried several kidney diets on 3 separate occasions; he got diahrea every time. So we stuck to a urinary diet.
-I am not looking for a miracle diet. I know every cat is different & maybe there is no balancing everything without sacrificing something in the process. But I do know the pain from being fed something that upsets his stomach every day was making him have more bad days than good so I know a good diet is important. I don't know much about feline nutrition so please feel free to share knowledge with me!! I would just like my best friend to enjoy a pain free life for as long as possible!

 

[StanAndAlf]

I will leave the more in depth stuff for those who know more about nutrition.

Just wanted to say that I do believe Hills sells a salmon version of the CD wet food. I know some warn against fish, but if it is keeping issues at bay might be worth a try to rule out chicken as the cause. Best of luck!

 

[cataholic07]

I would first get an ultrasound done and a blood test for folate/b12 to see if he has IBD or GI lymphoma. Its nice to know and he will have to be on carrageenan/agar agar/gum free wet food if so. All that crap can increase stomach inflammation. You can do premade raw as well, aafco balanced raws, many have novel proteins and its very easy to digest.

 

[Astragal14]

I agree with cataholic07 on the b12 and ultrasound. One of my cats has IBD and b12 has helped considerably.

Your description makes me think of two things to consider. The first is if you are giving a probiotic since he's taking metronidazole (I'm also curious how often he takes metronidazole.... daily? As needed for bouts of diarrhea?). Don't give a probiotic the same time of day as the metronidazole, keep them separated by a few hours.

The second thing I would consider is to compare the non-chicken ingredients in his Hill's cd food with the other foods on which he does well (you mentioned rabbit and duck). Hopefully you'll find some differences between them and can identify and reduce/remove the problem ingredients. It's great that he's doing well on the Hill's when it's mixed, and that likely means it's not a true allergy but instead a sensitivity. A long diet trial for my IBD kitty showed that he doesn't have any problems with proteins but he is highly sensitive to certain ingredients, such as gums (guar gum, xanthan gum, etc.), pea products (pea starch, fiber, protein) and various starches.

 

[merlotandasti]

I will leave the more in depth stuff for those who know more about nutrition.

Just wanted to say that I do believe Hills sells a salmon version of the CD wet food. I know some warn against fish, but if it is keeping issues at bay might be worth a try to rule out chicken as the cause. Best of luck!

I've actually tried this one for awhile as well. He got tired of the fish type really easily. He has become picky these days. & also when I first give him some, he vomits & thats pretty abnormal for him.. thank you for the post though!

I would first get an ultrasound done and a blood test for folate/b12 to see if he has IBD or GI lymphoma. Its nice to know and he will have to be on carrageenan/agar agar/gum free wet food if so. All that crap can increase stomach inflammation. You can do premade raw as well, aafco balanced raws, many have novel proteins and its very easy to digest.

I would like to get the folate/b12 test done. I will probably have to pass on the ultrasound. He's had one before for kidneys, urinary tract, & pancreas. I feel for him bc he's had so many tests done since August last year. He is really stressed when he goes to the vet now & always has trouble when he comes home. We've used Gabapentin to try to calm his nerves but it doesn't work. I would love to cut all the junk out of his foods. It's totally possible it's one of those things causing this. Do these raw diets have the right nutrition to keep away stones? I'm really stuck on how to tell which foods/ingredients/ect keep his urine acidic to keep them away. I will try to look more into raw diets. I think he would do well with it. Thank you so much

I agree with cataholic07 on the b12 and ultrasound. One of my cats has IBD and b12 has helped considerably.

Your description makes me think of two things to consider. The first is if you are giving a probiotic since he's taking metronidazole (I'm also curious how often he takes metronidazole.... daily? As needed for bouts of diarrhea?). Don't give a probiotic the same time of day as the metronidazole, keep them separated by a few hours.

The second thing I would consider is to compare the non-chicken ingredients in his Hill's cd food with the other foods on which he does well (you mentioned rabbit and duck). Hopefully you'll find some differences between them and can identify and reduce/remove the problem ingredients. It's great that he's doing well on the Hill's when it's mixed, and that likely means it's not a true allergy but instead a sensitivity. A long diet trial for my IBD kitty showed that he doesn't have any problems with proteins but he is highly sensitive to certain ingredients, such as gums (guar gum, xanthan gum, etc.), pea products (pea starch, fiber, protein) and various starches.

He gets the Metronidazole daily. I wasn't aware that the probiotic could have a negative reaction with it! Thank you for the information.


So since yesterday, we began mixing some RC SO index gastrointestinal food with his cd. Today he started having such bad diarrhea that he was walking around so uncomfortable that I thought he was maybe unable to pee (Thank God he finally peed with ease. A urinary blockage is one of my worst nightmares).... it's once again chicken. He had lots of gas after that as well. I had to give him pain meds for the discomfort.

I have a question: should I stop that food immediately & go back to the other rabbit/cd mix to get him back to normal or am I supposed to give it more time ? It has only been 2 days with maybe 1/4 a can of RC with 3/4 can of cd & then half & half today.

I wish I could make all this easy on him.

 

[artiemom]

While I am not expert, and there are many on here who are; I would eliminate all chicken containing food from his diet. Yes, the C/D food. It contains chicken. See what happens.. It may take a week for results.

I am kind of a super-freak when it comes to chicken. Artie had a chicken allergy. I noticed it when I fed him chicken, he vomited immediately.
Now, Geoffrey is going through the vomiting phase. His regular vet suspects a chicken allergy.
He is scheduled for the specialist, along with an ultrasound, in a few weeks.

I have eliminated all chicken, from him, and giving him Pepcid, twice a day. His vomiting has markedly decreased.. from 8 times a month in May, to just once a week.... and that is not much at all..

My theory is that chicken is too widely used in cat food. So much so that cats are getting allergic to it.. and who knows what parts and types of chicken are in the food.. I was very strict with feeding Geoffrey a lot of chicken, but it was impossible to do, added to almost all food.

I am now feeding him, Rabbit, exclusively....

Just my thoughts.. I get long winded...
Good Luck....

Oh, PS
The rabbit should be back in stock... I went through a panic with it.. I am not using Freely Rabbit... not the best, but it was the only one available.. so far so good.... It is a new, small, company.. at one point it was out of stock also....people were scrambling for rabbit.

 

[merlotandasti]

While I am not expert, and there are many on here who are; I would eliminate all chicken containing food from his diet. Yes, the C/D food. It contains chicken. See what happens.. It may take a week for results.

I am kind of a super-freak when it comes to chicken. Artie had a chicken allergy. I noticed it when I fed him chicken, he vomited immediately.
Now, Geoffrey is going through the vomiting phase. His regular vet suspects a chicken allergy.
He is scheduled for the specialist, along with an ultrasound, in a few weeks.

I have eliminated all chicken, from him, and giving him Pepcid, twice a day. His vomiting has markedly decreased.. from 8 times a month in May, to just once a week.... and that is not much at all..

My theory is that chicken is too widely used in cat food. So much so that cats are getting allergic to it.. and who knows what parts and types of chicken are in the food.. I was very strict with feeding Geoffrey a lot of chicken, but it was impossible to do, added to almost all food.

I am now feeding him, Rabbit, exclusively....

Just my thoughts.. I get long winded...
Good Luck....

Oh, PS
The rabbit should be back in stock... I went through a panic with it.. I am not using Freely Rabbit... not the best, but it was the only one available.. so far so good.... It is a new, small, company.. at one point it was out of stock also....people were scrambling for rabbit.

Thanks so much for the info! Today I went back to his rabbit mixed with cd food & he's already doing so much better again. Plus he is eating more normally. I would like to try an only rabbit diet. He really likes it. Thanks for the recommendations. Years ago, I used to read your posts about all the things you & Artie were going through while I was trying to get my other cat, Merlot to eat. He had gastrointestinal issues as well, but crossed over in December 2016. I never thought I would go through it again with Asti. I wish cats wouldn't have to go through all these issues with their digestive systems. But we do our best & keep moving forward!

 

[Astragal14]

I've actually tried this one for awhile as well. He got tired of the fish type really easily. He has become picky these days. & also when I first give him some, he vomits & thats pretty abnormal for him.. thank you for the post though!



I would like to get the folate/b12 test done. I will probably have to pass on the ultrasound. He's had one before for kidneys, urinary tract, & pancreas. I feel for him bc he's had so many tests done since August last year. He is really stressed when he goes to the vet now & always has trouble when he comes home. We've used Gabapentin to try to calm his nerves but it doesn't work. I would love to cut all the junk out of his foods. It's totally possible it's one of those things causing this. Do these raw diets have the right nutrition to keep away stones? I'm really stuck on how to tell which foods/ingredients/ect keep his urine acidic to keep them away. I will try to look more into raw diets. I think he would do well with it. Thank you so much




He gets the Metronidazole daily. I wasn't aware that the probiotic could have a negative reaction with it! Thank you for the information.


So since yesterday, we began mixing some RC SO index gastrointestinal food with his cd. Today he started having such bad diarrhea that he was walking around so uncomfortable that I thought he was maybe unable to pee (Thank God he finally peed with ease. A urinary blockage is one of my worst nightmares).... it's once again chicken. He had lots of gas after that as well. I had to give him pain meds for the discomfort.

I have a question: should I stop that food immediately & go back to the other rabbit/cd mix to get him back to normal or am I supposed to give it more time ? It has only been 2 days with maybe 1/4 a can of RC with 3/4 can of cd & then half & half today.

I wish I could make all this easy on him.

Are you giving him a probiotic on a regular basis? I know it won't solve all of his issues, but a probiotic and regular B12 injections have greatly help my cat's IBD. Two veterinary nutritionists specifically recommended Visbiome Vet to us as the best probiotic available. We've been using it for almost two years and it's been great. We sometimes use a different probiotic for a little while, so his body doesn't get used to the Visbiome. We use Dr. Mercola probiotic when we do that, it still has a lot of CFU's and different strains, but not as many as the Visbiome.
Visbiome® Vet
DR. MERCOLA Complete Probiotics Dog & Cat Supplement, 3.17-oz jar - Chewy.com

And it's great to hear your cat is doing better on his regular food! We had a prescription food make our cat worse one time, so it's good you have the rabbit that you know he likes and that he does well on it.

 

[merlotandasti]

So I'm beginning to wonder if there is just something wrong with Royal Canin and Hill's foods.... I've seen a lot of complaints of formula changes that are recent in the past year & last year. This is when all this has started for him. & I keep trying different prescription foods because of his stones & it feels like it's not getting any better.. but when I give him OTC foods that don't help with stones, he will get healthy again. But I can't give him those foods either because I don't want his stones to come back & him to get blocked or need another cystotomy.

It's just speculation on my part.

Has anyone had any problems with these brands?

I feel like I'm going in circles here

 

[artiemom]

RC has changed it formula and labeling, and can size. There was a worldwide shortage on almost all foods.

I heard that Hills did the same, also...and the shortage on canned food.

The RC food is not the greatest tasting. Geoffrey flat out refused to eat the new formula rabbit, I had a case of the old formula, which I have been using. He is going to have to eat it, because I do not feel like going through this with another brand.

I heard there are a ton of complaints from owners about pets refusing to eat the new formulas.

It took Geoffrey a while to get used to the new formula dry rabbit, but now he is eating it... I do not think it is his favorite, but he is eating it.

dam changes... they do not help us.. they make things worse...

 

[artiemom]

Also, in the words of my IM Vet... change on variable at a time. I take that to mean everything.. so I would suggest you pick one food, and stay with it. The constant changing can be messing with your baby's system.

 

[merlotandasti]

Also, in the words of my IM Vet... change on variable at a time. I take that to mean everything.. so I would suggest you pick one food, and stay with it. The constant changing can be messing with your baby's system.

I agree with you. I'm currently trying purina food. He seems better than the hills. I'm going to try this one long term. I guess sometimes I feel desperate to find something perfect for him to take his pain away. But I could be hurting more than helping.