do you worry about parasites etc?

[sheeshshe]

He jsut ate too much people food. you know, spices, onions, garlic etc. sigh.......  we tried keeping him out of it but he was SUPEr fast and sneaky.  we tried locking him up in the bathroom etc, but the kids would go pee, he'd sneak out and immediately be into something ebfore anyone even knew.

 

[ldg]

I remember Pretzel too. :heart2:

I went to refresh my memory on what happened, and found your thread about Pretzel being so food obsessed. I know this thread is about your concern about parasites... but with your kitty locked up in a bathroom all day, and your husband wanting to shoot him.... I'm really at a kind of loss for words. I am the first person to say that adoption is for life, and our pets are a life-long commitment. But given he seems to be ill or needy in a way that can't be safely accommodated in your home... I mean.... being caged all day, or locked up in a bathroom all day isn't much of a quality of life.

Is your hope that you can cage him for a month, feed him a raw diet to help him heal, and then let him out... and he'll be healed enough to return to free feeding kibble? And hopefully part of his food obsession is because he's ill?

Have you determined if he has ulcers? Is there a vet that will prescribe the proper medication if you can't afford an ultrasound to properly diagnose him? And can you get blood work done to determine if he's become anemic again from bleeding ulcers? Or are these expenses out of the question?

...and... once out of the crate or cage or bathroom... what then?

I'm really not trying to be difficult, I'm just trying to understand your thinking, and questioning whether it's practical, or what's best for Pretzel. :rub:

 

[sheeshshe]

I remember Pretzel too.

I went to refresh my memory on what happened, and found your thread about Pretzel being so food obsessed. I know this thread is about your concern about parasites... but with your kitty locked up in a bathroom all day, and your husband wanting to shoot him.... I'm really at a kind of loss for words. I am the first person to say that adoption is for life, and our pets are a life-long commitment. But given he seems to be ill or needy in a way that can't be safely accommodated in your home... I mean.... being caged all day, or locked up in a bathroom all day isn't much of a quality of life.

Is your hope that you can cage him for a month, feed him a raw diet to help him heal, and then let him out... and he'll be healed enough to return to free feeding kibble? And hopefully part of his food obsession is because he's ill?
Have you determined if he has ulcers? Is there a vet that will prescribe the proper medication if you can't afford an ultrasound to properly diagnose him? And can you get blood work done to determine if he's become anemic again from bleeding ulcers? Or are these expenses out of the question?
...and... once out of the crate or cage or bathroom... what then?
I'm really not trying to be difficult, I'm just trying to understand your thinking, and questioning whether it's practical, or what's best for Pretzel.

I understand.  The plan is this, I am doing this for a month, with him in a cage, without access to anything to further upset his tummy and to only access good OK food for him.  Hoping that he can completely heal 100% this time around before he starts going after food.  He has always been a foodaholic with people food.  He's always been interested in cucumbers, and melons, green beans, peas, you name it.  Not even necessarily the meat stuff, but sometimes he likes the meat, just he loves veggies!  It has always been pretty manageable, but after the whole paint water thing, once he was eating again and doing well, he started going after people food like it was a life or death experience.

 I would love to take him to a vet ( a different one) but A: we're broke (my daughter had surgery this summer and with all the appointments that went along wtih that, its been an ongoing thing for the past year, we're pretty broke) and B: with the experience with the last vet, I feel like even paying all that $, I might find another vet who either doesn't listen to me again, or has no idea what is going on, or will want to open him up for surgery.  and C: my husband doesn't want to, period.  because of all those things listed above.  

The cage, the cage is big, it is a dog cage for large dogs, loaned by my friend.  The kids go in there and spend time with him.  I take him out and play with him etc.  He isn't 100% not being loved.  He gets loved.  He looks at me with those eyes and I take him out and love on him.  

I tried looking for some assistance programs in the area to see if I could find some vet care, bc I'd love to make sure all his #'s are in check.  but the ones that we'd qualify for have gone under or aren't taking any more applications this year.  

and yes, exactly what you said.  I hope to feed him raw food, caged away from everything, heal him up, and eventually let him resume back to normal life, hoping that he won't be going after human food like he was.

and we don't own a gun, and never will, so no worries about my husband shooting him.  he says that all the time, even about himself.  I want to shoot myself.  when he is stressed out.  thankfully he hasn't said he wants to shoot me! bc I'd be outta here!

my focus with pretz right now is to give him the chance to completely heal.  he deserves that chance.  if we come back to this place again, I will give him up for adoption.  I already told my husband that.  I just need to make sure I've done everything I possibly can.  I can't lose my baby and then feel guilty that I didn't do everything i could, ya know?  I mean, it is possible that he just took on too much too fast after the paint water and just idn't have eough time to heal.  if not, then there is something else going on.  and if there is something else going on, then it is time to move on.  I just don't want it to come to that.

 

[whollycat]

Originally Posted by sheeshshe

my focus with pretz right now is to give him the chance to completely heal.  he deserves that chance.

And what have I been preaching the last few weeks--don't give up and give him time to heal.

Also, that darn paint is caustic; thank goodness it was mixed with water or it could have been way worse; he'd be dead.

Remember where he was at when you first posted? Notice how he's doing now?

As long as y'all stick to the plan and give him time, I feel he'll come out just fine. I would do this until...until he is better, and not put a time limit on it. Um...think I've said that before too, Ms Sheeshshe.

 

and keep up the good work!

 

[sheeshshe]

LOL, I know  But.  I guess I don't know when he is 'better' per se, I mean, he acts 100% better and normal now.  I can't see his insides.  but, I figure a month is a good time out to see how things are doing and see if he can handle , 'the real world' LOL

 

[carolina]

What do you call the real world? He should not have access to tacos filled with onions and garlic, and people foods that can be toxic for cats. That "real world" needs to be kept away from a cat, period.
Please understand, I am not trying to be mean.... But I am very concerned about this kitty....
Imho it is not about creating him for a month then hoping for the best.... Because his life will be an eternal fight with these horrible episodes if precautions are not taken to ***prevent*** this from happening in the future.
A cat can't be trained, but perhaps the kids and the husband can. The humans can maybe eat at a table and maybe not leave food around :nod:
Safe-proofing you home for a cat, is about removing the things that can harm that cat from its environment. Food is locked in the cabinets, in the fridge, or in the freezer. And he won't eat.
Chemicals are locked away, and he doesn't have access to it.
These precautions need to be for a lifetime, not for a month. This is the real world of a cat, imho.

 

[carolina]

To the OP.
I am 100% for a Raw diet. I feed raw, I advocate Raw. Some say I "push Raw". Not on this case..... I do not think it is the right choice for this cat at the moment, and here is why:
Any food transition in a cat, pushes its system.... It would be ok if the cat was to remain in a raw diet long term, but evidently, this is not the plan - so he will go through 2 transitions - into raw, and out of raw.
Another thing, and the biggest disadvantage I see of a raw transition to this cat, is that as soon as you start feeding raw, the stomach immediately starts overproducing acid to digest the raw meat. That happens as a safety measure, but in this particular case, where the stomach lining has potentially been compromised by the paint, it sounds to me like a bad idea.
Acid induced regurgitation is not uncommon during a raw transition. IMHO the last thing this cat needs is to have the stomach pumping overproduced acid and inducing regurgitation, only to have the diet transitioned back to the original diet in the middle of an unfinished transition :dk:

Again, to me, Raw is the healthiest diet that there is - when it is done long term, in the right conditions.
For this cat, I would do an extremely slow transition, it would take months.

My honest opinion, truly...... If anything, I think a home made diet for this cat (at the current circumstances) would be much better, or a good, simple formula canned diet.

 

[whollycat]

To the OP.
I am 100% for a Raw diet. I feed raw, I advocate Raw. Some say I "push Raw". Not on this case..... I do not think it is the right choice for this cat at the moment, and here is why:
Any food transition in a cat, pushes its system.... It would be ok if the cat was to remain in a raw diet long term, but evidently, this is not the plan - so he will go through 2 transitions - into raw, and out of raw.
Another thing, and the biggest disadvantage I see of a raw transition to this cat, is that as soon as you start feeding raw, the stomach immediately starts overproducing acid to digest the raw meat. That happens as a safety measure, but in this particular case, where the stomach lining has potentially been compromised by the paint, it sounds to me like a bad idea.
Acid induced regurgitation is not uncommon during a raw transition. IMHO the last thing this cat needs is to have the stomach pumping overproduced acid and inducing regurgitation, only to have the diet transitioned back to the original diet in the middle of an unfinished transition

Again, to me, Raw is the healthiest diet that there is - when it is done long term, in the right conditions.
For this cat, I would do an extremely slow transition, it would take months.
My honest opinion, truly...... If anything, I think a home made diet for this cat (at the current circumstances) would be much better, or a good, simple formula canned diet.

Carolina, I've been PMing Sheeshshe because no canned or kibble would stay down, and I felt I could be of help. Canned or kibble resulted in immediate vomiting with no end in sight. This was so disheartening, and would only impede healing, which was a major hurdle. He didn't have months to transition to a raw/cooked diet. He was losing more weight and acted like he was starving--which he probably was.

After thoughtful consideration I proposed trying plain human-grade grocery store chicken. Cooked or raw, didn't matter. She's been partially cooking it, then running it through her food processor now. Only chicken with no supplements or calcium yet, as it was just a a trial. The first day of the chicken, he kept it down until later in the day (this was chunked meat, not food processor food yet)--way longer than the immediate vomiting with canned or kibble. The next day after she started using the food processor, and the days after that, no vomiting.

My thinking on the chicken is that even though it may cause an upswing in acid, who knows for sure what the paint/water mixture did? Her vet was worthless for help. It was worth the risk to me to give this a go for this little youngster. I mean, what could he do, vomit it immediately like the canned or kibble? Already been there. So far this change in diet has paid off. Pretzel has gained a half a pound. Now we've been talking supplementing calcium as the next step along with taurine. She has access to unlimited egg shells, so can grind up her own ESP. Then if all goes well, a couple other supplements to make it a balanced raw/cooked or even fully raw (maybe--mama needs to get past the "ick" factor of raw meat

) diet, including organ meat and egg yolk. (She raises her own eggs--I'm envious!)

My other thinking on going to raw/cooked chicken is that diet is a huge factor in all bodily processes, so it made sense to me at least, that a carnivore eating highly digestible, bioavailable food would be better off than with any canned food out there.

Now, what the future holds, I'm not sure. Time will tell, but I'm optimistic. Heck, a home prepared balanced diet is cheaper than feeding commercial canned or kibble, which could be a huge selling point for her hubby.

Do you think my thinking is screwy?

So far the results have been pretty good.

 

[sheeshshe]

We are doing our best here, I plan on continuing to do our best.  We are not perfect people, we make mistakes.  I don't purposely try and give my cat a death sentence.  And I don't plan on doing that either.  The paint water was an innocent mistake.  I didn't think he'd drink it, I didn't know.  I already feel guilty enough as it is.  I don't want to feel like everyone thinks I am a horrible person.  I have a good heart.  I have 3 young kids, I do my best.  We've always had food hanging out when the kids didn't finish their food and later when they're hungry, they need to finish the food they didn't finish.  It hadn't been a problem before because even if Pretz did go for it, we'd see him and just get him down.  This past month however, he was just too fast and too obsessed with it, I mean it was nearly impossible.  It was constant and it was obsessive.  We wouldn't even have TIME to put things away. Heck, one time I brought some meatballs home from a birthday party and gave them to my husband.  He was eating them, the kids did something, he set them down for TEN SECONDS, 10!  and turned around and pretzel was eating them.  Tell me that it was our fault.  I mean, there is only SO MUCH one can try and prevent.  ya know?  YES we have room for improvement.  YES we can do better with cleaning up faster.  YES there are other things we can try harder for.  Will I try my darn best? YES.  Am I perfect? NO.  will I make mistakes YES.  we all do.  Nobody is perfect.  And I feel like I am looked at here as a bad cat parent, or someone who doesn't care, or is just like, "whatever" it is just a 'cat'. because if anyone thinks I am that way?  they don't know me, and I dont' expect you all to know me, I am another person on the internet.  You can't really 'know' someone just from what they type.  I am passionate about my cats.  Is my husband? no.  am I? yes.  always have been, always will be.  I love animals.  I tried to save a baby newborn rabbit the other day and drove a ways to do so.  I have chickens.  I take care of them like they are my pets.  people think I'm crazy.  that is who I am, I am a crazy animal lover who does all I can with what is at my disposal.  I do however, have to do all I can with whatever is comfortable with my husband. I can't lose my marriage over my animal family.

 

[mschauer]

We are doing our best here, I plan on continuing to do our best.  We are not perfect people, we make mistakes.  I don't purposely try and give my cat a death sentence.  And I don't plan on doing that either.  The paint water was an innocent mistake.  I didn't think he'd drink it, I didn't know.  I already feel guilty enough as it is.  I don't want to feel like everyone thinks I am a horrible person.  I have a good heart.  I have 3 young kids, I do my best.  We've always had food hanging out when the kids didn't finish their food and later when they're hungry, they need to finish the food they didn't finish.  It hadn't been a problem before because even if Pretz did go for it, we'd see him and just get him down.  This past month however, he was just too fast and too obsessed with it, I mean it was nearly impossible.  It was constant and it was obsessive.  We wouldn't even have TIME to put things away. Heck, one time I brought some meatballs home from a birthday party and gave them to my husband.  He was eating them, the kids did something, he set them down for TEN SECONDS, 10!  and turned around and pretzel was eating them.  Tell me that it was our fault.  I mean, there is only SO MUCH one can try and prevent.  ya know?  YES we have room for improvement.  YES we can do better with cleaning up faster.  YES there are other things we can try harder for.  Will I try my darn best? YES.  Am I perfect? NO.  will I make mistakes YES.  we all do.  Nobody is perfect.  And I feel like I am looked at here as a bad cat parent, or someone who doesn't care, or is just like, "whatever" it is just a 'cat'. because if anyone thinks I am that way?  they don't know me, and I dont' expect you all to know me, I am another person on the internet.  You can't really 'know' someone just from what they type.  I am passionate about my cats.  Is my husband? no.  am I? yes.  always have been, always will be.  I love animals.  I tried to save a baby newborn rabbit the other day and drove a ways to do so.  I have chickens.  I take care of them like they are my pets.  people think I'm crazy.  that is who I am, I am a crazy animal lover who does all I can with what is at my disposal.  I do however, have to do all I can with whatever is comfortable with my husband. I can't lose my marriage over my animal family.

I don't think anyone blames you for what happened. It was clearly an accident. It happens.

It sounds to me like you are doing a wonderful job with Pretz. 

In my opinion, and we are all just expressing opinions here, there is no reason for you to be concerned about switching back to commercial processed foods later if you decide to. 

 

[blueyedgirl5946]

Would it be an option for this cat to be somewhere else when the family is eating, maybe in another room until mealtime is over. It is a given with most people that cats will eat what they find. There are too many additives in people food that would not be good for cats. I remember how your cat drinking the paint water. I do hope that the track you are on now with the feeding helps him to overcome the damage to his insides. Keep up the good work. It sounds like this whole experience has been an eye opener for your family and a hard lesson. Good luck.

 

[auntie crazy]

You've definitely been through a touch time, Sheeshshe.

I recommend you continue with the raw food. This kitty needs the highest quality nutrition he can get, in the easiest to digest form, for however long you can give it to him. I hope that's forever, but even just a month is better than none at all.

As nutrient-packed as raw chicken is, however, chicken meat alone is not a healthy diet. I would recommend you add a small bit of liver and another organ to the food you're feeding, as well as a tiny pinch of dried, finely crushed eggshell powder to supply his calcium needs. I very rarely suggest anything other than whole bone for raw fed cats, but given there's usually a learning curve to eating bone, he's going to be limited to eating raw for only a few weeks, and his digestive system appears compromised, I think the eggshell powder is sufficient in this case. (If, however, you believe you can keep him on a PMR diet, I strongly recommend you start adding bone-in meals after about six weeks.)

So, your boneless diet should consist of about 90% meat, 10% organ (half liver, half anything else like kidney, spleen, brains, etc.). The eggshell powder can be mixed in at 1/2 a teaspoon of ground eggshell per pound of meat eaten each week; really a very small amount.

You prepare the eggshell as follows: Rinse well with plain water and peel the membranes off. Dry by setting out overnight or oven baking for 30 minutes (must be completely dried to avoid potential mold issues). Grind or crush into powder with coffee bean grinder, mortar and pestle, or food processor (all new or very thoroughly cleaned first). Sprinkle very lightly over cat's food at 1/2 teaspoon per pound of plain raw meat eaten per week.

One more item to note: the minimum protein rotation requirement for house cats is generally set at 3-5. Again, given your particular circumstances, I think you can get away with feeding just chicken products. If, however, you are able to feed raw beyond four to six weeks, you should start incorporating other meats; pork, beef, rabbit, duck, venison, whatever you can get in your area.

Good luck, hon!

AC