Danger in the litter box?

[otto]

I've been talking with someone in the very early stages of considering a raw diet (we've all been there!) She has a concern about cleaning the litter boxes, if bacteria (ie: E.Coli, C.Dif or Salmonella) from the raw meat is passed through the feces into the litter box.

Somehow it's not something I ever thought about before, but I don't have children. (who might be given litter box duty).

Can anyone offer some thoughts on this that I can pass on? Thanks.

 

[vball91]

Well, I don't see how it's any different. After cleaning the litter box(es), you wash your hands. Since cats who are not raw fed also have bacteria in their feces (extrapolating from a dog study), then it's not any more risky. Just like preparing raw food for cats cats isn't any different from preparing raw food for your own family. Just follow common sense raw meat handling procedures and litter box handling procedures.

 

[ldg]

Anyone who cleans a litter box should be using a utensil with which to scoop the litter - and washing hands when done. So no, there should be no issue. If she's been feeding kibble and/or her kitty is a rescue cat, she and her children have already likely been exposed to any and or all of these things from kitty already anyway.

I remember doing the research when the AVMA was going to vote on the raw feeding policy. Our dogs and cats are already carriers of Salmonella, E. coli, and other pathogens. “The intestinal carriage of Salmonella by dogs and cats is more common than the prevalence of clinical disease, with numerous serovars being isolated from each animal species. Prevalence of isolation of Salmonella spp from feces of healthy dogs is reported to be between 1 and 36%, and from healthy cats between 1 and 18%. (Sanchez 2002). Sanchez S, Hofacre CL, Lee MD, Jaurer JJ and Doyle MP. (2002). “Animal Sources of Salmonellosis in Humans,” JAVMA 221:492-497.

...and salmonella and e. coli have been found far more often on human foods other than meat: Bean sprouts, melons, salads, apple cider, almonds...

The risks are inherent in shopping, period. Just take normal hand-washing precautions after cleaning a litter box!

 

[peaches08]

E. coli and salmonella don't really concern me as much as it used to, but after some members battled C. diff, I'm kinda wondering if I should look into a safe wash or soak to clean the meat before grinding it. I'll be curious to hear what others say.

 

[ldg]

Actually, tammyp's kitties didn't turn out to have c. diff. So it's just one family of kitties out of ... how many? that had C. perf in ... how many years of people posting here? I guess it's possible there have been others that didn't post.

But Dr. P suggests searing the meat prior to grinding if one is worried, no? I don't know that there's a "wash" that would help prevent something like that. :dk:

 

[vball91]

peaches, I can't remember if you're already feeding probiotics or not, but the Nexabiotic 20 strain one seems very effective against all clostridium strains. I'm switching to that one next.

 

[ldg]

After Carolina's experience, I switched. :nod: It includes the S. boulardii - which I don't know if you saw or not, but the S. boulardii resolved coccidia without antibiotics in the kittens we rescued in June.

 

[otto]

I'm thinking of trying Nexabiotic 20 too. Can someone tell me what the "other ingredients" are? Mazy is just so sensitive to so many things.

And..what do you think about rotating probiotics? Mazy is still on Proviable DC, as the Natural Factors caused her to regurgitate.

Queen Eva is now getting Proviable DC one day and half a Natural Factors (the 15 billion one) the next.

Jennie is on Natural Factors, only

And back on topic, I want to be sure to give correct info to my friend. If I understand correctly, probiotics aren't just for digestive health in general, they actually work against bad bacteria?

 

[peaches08]

I used to do the searing method, but the cats like it better without searing. Plus the time saved!

As far as anything washing off C. diff, that is how we reduce C. diff infections between patients is soap and water. Hand sanitizer won't affect C. diff. I rinse the meat I use pretty well; I even rinse the skin I use separately from the meat.

I don't use probiotics at this time. Is the S. boulardii palatable? I'd rather prevent than treat, and I admit to not following up on that thread.

 

[otto]

Hmmm..I never rinse meat. I don't grind though, is rinsing just for when grinding? I read that rinsing is just as likely to spread bacteria around as to remove it.

I just freeze it, thaw it enough to cut with the scissors and weigh it out, then freeze it again. I made up my mind in the beginning to not worry about if bacteria in raw meat, knowing they are equipped, (except in rare exceptions as in Carolina's case,) to deal with it.

But back to my question about probiotics actually helping to prevent problems with certain bacteria....? How does that work?

And if I understood something else, dry food is just as likely, if not more so, to cause a cat to shed bacteria in the litter box. I know that dry food itself is much more likely to carry bacteria, and cause a problem in a cat (because of it's slow digestion rate) than raw meat. I never carried the thought further to the other end, in the litter box, but it certainly makes sense.

Thanks for replying everyone, this is very interesting!

 

[ldg]

There was a discussion of probiotics in this thread, and I provided links to more info (including the other ingredients in the Nexabiotic). http://www.thecatsite.com/t/262587/probiotics-search-human-grade-and-cfus

But yes, probiotics help prevent infection from unhealthy bacteria. L. acidophilus and bifidobacterium help the gut from overgrowth of unhealthy e. coli and salmonella strains; S. boulardii provides protection against overgrowth of clostridium and coccidia strains.

peaches, the S. boulardii alone is bitter and not palatable.

As to the rinsing, I rinse the meat, but only because it's habit. My mom grew up on a farm where they slaughtered a lot of their own meat, so they probably rinsed the meat just to clean it from dirt and stuff. So rinsing was a habit "hangover" from that, I suspect. But according to the CDC, otto's right - rinsing just increases the risk of spreading the bacteria around.

 

[peaches08]

Hmm. If the bacteria is going to get drug into the meat anyway then, then why do we avoid ground meats from the store? Not trying to be obtuse, I hear what you are saying and wonder what we could do better...ya know?

 

[ldg]

Because the cuts of meat do not necessarily have salmonella on them - the higher risk is the ground meats because of the grinding environment, potential of equipment not being properly cleaned, etc.

...And the other issue with is the nutrients are better retained in the meat cuts, and then you grind them at home and freeze them. They're not sitting out on a shelf covered in saran wrap for several days, exposed to air and light at not frozen temperatures, etc.

 

[peaches08]

Gotcha! Thanks!

I hope my questions help you to answer your friend, Otto. Didn't mean to hijack your thread.

 

[lehighluke]

I was asking about this when I started too.

Alot of good info in my thread: http://www.thecatsite.com/t/261445/...-my-wife-is-scared-of-salmonella#post_3376978

Also consider:

Kibble is just as, if not more likely to have salmonella than meticulously prepared raw food, so whats the difference?

Some large % of cats have salmonella in the GI tract as part of their normal flora, again, so whats the difference?

You should be using good hygenie/sanitation practices when handling litter no matter what, if so, what is the threat to people?

There have been no reported cases of pets on raw food ever passing salmonella to owners (ive read that in many forums, articles), but something like 200 cases with pets eating commercially prepared foods.  (Sources somewhere in my thread)