convenia injection- i'm afraid for my kitten

[silent meowlook]

I am so sorry this happened to you and your cat Meowme. The situation sounds terrible

 

[Kflowers]

My heart breaks for you and your cat. This is terrible and a betrayal, which only increases the pain.

My cat received the convenia three times. Each time she pulled most of her fur out leaving only a ridge on her spine and boots on her legs. I was told this could not possibly be caused by the convenia. I was told the same by various members here since pulling all of their fur out is not a recognized side effect of convenia. Nonetheless, it's happened three times. At that point I insisted that she never get the convenia again. I was given the 'you're overreacting, and the side effect couldn't have come from the convenia. Who knows what she got into." House cat, no chemical cleaners in the house beyond dish soap and white vinegar. I've had that response before and the "something drifted in through the closed window that she was allergic to."

You know what you see, you know the timeline. In my opinion, don't even bother to argue, just say, this is my cat, my wallet and this is what we're going to do and not do.

As meowmee said the drug stays in the system way too long, much too long to be safe. I too have a sign on her carrier, and it's written on the front of her chart. I'm not confident that works since in the past I had a cat who was allergic to family of drugs that includes penicillin and I managed to stop the vet from giving him penicillin by putting my hand between the cat and the syringe. Apparently, they don't always read the charts when they are in a hurry.

With the horrendous increase in prices putting vet care beyond the reach of many, I begin to think pets were better off in the 1960s and 70s, when there were few solutions, but you could afford them. And when you didn't have to go into debt to pay for curing the side effects of the medication.

 

[Alldara]

Have to disagree about chicken and rice for cats. Rice is starch and carb. See this link

http://[URL]https://catinfo.org/

[/URL]
Look all around on that site. There is allot of good info.

The “ grain free” is a gimmick to increase cat food sales. If they remove the grains, they add potatoes or peas, or some other high carb filler.

Think about what cats normally eat, without intervention. I have never seen a cat stalk an ear of corn.

But, do your own research. Make sure that information is from a veterinary source, such as a university or vet.
Here is another link regarding feeding

http://[URL]https://www.aaha.org/about-aaha/aaha-position-statements/raw-protein-diet/

[/URL]
And another https://www.aaha.org/globalassets/0...ssessment/nutritionalassessmentguidelines.pdf

It's totally fair to disagree. Like I said it's a debate within the community.

This is the VCAs statement on raw diets: Avoiding Raw Food in Cats

I used to really believe in websites like catinfo.org until I began to realize some things

- they only links are to themselves or to other similar minded people with no studies or other sources to back up what's being said on the page. So, it's an opinion.

- they only give individual stories on specific cats. Often heartbreaking stories to deter from the fact that theyre only providing ancedotal evidence

- they either don't back up their credentials with links to their licensing body, or they don't have a licensing body (cat behaviouralists). This is KEY because it means they are relying on individual readers to know how to do that added check, and to do it, most won't. However, without the added check we have no way of knowing if the individual is a real veterinarian or not.

- many of the "facts" remain unedited for years. For example with catinfo.org, the document is from 2013, the last update is from 2016. There's been a TON of information learned since then. Info is dated.

Here's more information on how to analyze a source: How to Analyze a Primary Source - Carleton College


VCA is updated regularly and is a panel of vets and researcher combining and peer reviewing one another. So I tend to trust their statements.

"Research regarding the value of grain in cat diets is ongoing. There may be a link between grain free diets and heart disease, so stay tuned." What's in My Cat's Food?: Designer Diets, Grain Free Diets.

 

[silent meowlook]

I don’t have time to fully reply as I have to get to work.
I worked in the veterinary field, not a vet, for 30 years. I have recently worked 6 years cat only. 9 years internal medicine, 3 years shelter med, the rest, and currently general practice. I am basing what I recommend on personal experience.

I’ll respond fully after work.

I am always up for a friendly debate and enjoy others perspectives and ideas.

 

[Meowmee]

I am so sorry this happened to you and your cat Meowme. The situation sounds terrible

Thank you. I will never get over allowing them to give Angie convenia. And they treated me very horribly afterwards as well. My late father told me not to allow it due to the duration and I wish I had listened to him. He was right about just about everything and was a scientist.
It’s a sad situation when you have to write huges signs on the carrier etc. to try to stop a dvm from giving a drug because many can’t be trusted anymore.

 

[Meowmee]

I don’t have time to fully reply as I have to get to work.
I worked in the veterinary field, not a vet, for 30 years. I have recently worked 6 years cat only. 9 years internal medicine, 3 years shelter med, the rest, and currently general practice. I am basing what I recommend on personal experience.

I’ll respond fully after work.

I am always up for a friendly debate and enjoy others perspectives and ideas.

I totally agree about cats not naturally eating carbs etc. and I have yet to see any convincing data that even suggests much less proves that carb free cat diets are causing heart disease. Grains and other carb fillers are cheap by comparison to better proteins and that is one of the mian reasons they are added into cat and dog diets imo. That said some cats still do well on diets with grains.

 

[Meowmee]

My heart breaks for you and your cat. This is terrible and a betrayal, which only increases the pain.

My cat received the convenia three times. Each time she pulled most of her fur out leaving only a ridge on her spine and boots on her legs. I was told this could not possibly be caused by the convenia. I was told the same by various members here since pulling all of their fur out is not a recognized side effect of convenia. Nonetheless, it's happened three times. At that point I insisted that she never get the convenia again. I was given the 'you're overreacting, and the side effect couldn't have come from the convenia. Who knows what she got into." House cat, no chemical cleaners in the house beyond dish soap and white vinegar. I've had that response before and the "something drifted in through the closed window that she was allergic to."

You know what you see, you know the timeline. In my opinion, don't even bother to argue, just say, this is my cat, my wallet and this is what we're going to do and not do.

As meowmee said the drug stays in the system way too long, much too long to be safe. I too have a sign on her carrier, and it's written on the front of her chart. I'm not confident that works since in the past I had a cat who was allergic to family of drugs that includes penicillin and I managed to stop the vet from giving him penicillin by putting my hand between the cat and the syringe. Apparently, they don't always read the charts when they are in a hurry.

With the horrendous increase in prices putting vet care beyond the reach of many, I begin to think pets were better off in the 1960s and 70s, when there were few solutions, but you could afford them. And when you didn't have to go into debt to pay for curing the side effects of the medication.

I am sorry your kitty had that reaction, and to make matters worse your dvm dismissed it. That is very typical, the dismissal. It’s very obvious to me that what is happening with convenia is breaking many rules in medicine.. The way it is being pushed and given without permission with no regard for, and no warning of the dangers. And given for no medical reason without any diagnosis and with no sign of bacterial infection.

I never recall in the past having to write signs on my cat’s carrier not to give them a drug. And you were right even that is not enough probably. I still worry about it. I am glad you were there to stop them from giving your cat the penicillin. I feel like I have to be in the room now at all times to make sure they don’t make some terrible mistake.

It is also very obvious to me that there is a strong financial motivation in the use of this drug. I’m not going to say that that has never happened before in medicine but what happened with convenia is so unique that I can’t believe many people don’t see what is right in front of their faces.

Convenia costs around $80 a shot for a cat! And a lot more for large dogs. It’s a money maker.

There is always an alternative to this drug. Even if you can’t pill your cat or put medication in their food you can inject them yourself at home with a daily antibiotic, or take them to DVM to do it if that’s not an option. It’s not very hard to give those injections, the techs can train you to do it.

 

[silent meowlook]

This is a huge thing with me. I do feel that often the owners' opinions on their cats and their insights are overlooked and disregarded by veterinarians. I think there is no one better to give clues to the cat's health and wellbeing than the owner. After all, who spends the most time with their cat?

Working in the field, I have seen the eye rolls and heard the remarks. Usually, the cat is diagnosed quickly in the vets' mind, then, they have to prove it with testing and trials. Not all vets, but many. I have listened to owners for decades.

One example is a cat named Freddy. He was owned by a nice family with 7 cats. Freddy lived with the others in the catio as far as anyone could tell, he was overweight but okay. This was in an affluent area, think football players pets etc. There were four veterinarians there. I worked there during the late 1980's and early 1990's. I pet sat several times for this family. Super nice people. The owner, the adult female of the family brought Freddy in frequently and said
"He just wasn't right". The veterinarians examined him and saw nothing wrong, so decided it was the owner being neurotic. It became a long running joke with the vets as to if Freddy was going to come in that day or not. Freddy continued to come in and the owner continued to state there was something really wrong with Freddy but couldn't pinpoint any symptoms for the vets to work up or take seriously. I liked the owner and the cat. This is all long before I became the obnoxiously loud patient advocate that I am today.

One day a couple of weeks later, Freddy came in and just died right there on the table. CPR was preformed but they couldn't bring Freddy back.

Freddy was no longer mentioned in the hospital. You can try to rationalize, like the vets did at the time, “ it was an underlying heart disease” “ he went quick” “we couldn’t have known”. But I think that the entire hospital failed Freddy and his owner. Failed them horribly and at Freddy’s expense. It is this closed minded thinking that kills pets.

People say that veterinarians are burnt out. Well, to bad. If you have lost your passion leave the field. A vet with no soul is not better than no vet at all.

There are still plenty of vets out there that care and listen and truly enjoy their work. You have to sometimes go through so many to find the right one.

I went through 15 vets to find one that would listen when I said something was wrong. Fifteen! So, fourteen vets were saying my horse was fine but the last vet diagnosed and did radiographs and the right blood tests to determine he has severe juvenile arthritis all over, and Cushings disease. It gets expensive and frustrating to say the least. And you have to weigh the Benefits over the stress to the kitty with multiple vet visits. Stress isn’t good for them.

Just venting, I think.

Back to nutrition:

Cats and Carbohydrates: The Carnivore Fantasy?

The domestic cat’s wild ancestors are obligate carnivores that consume prey containing only minimal amounts of carbohydrates. Evolutionary events adapted the cat’s metabolism and physiology to this diet strictly composed of animal tissues ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

The above article/study done is honestly the most boring and useless written words, if I read it correctly. I did nod off a few times. Maybe someone might have fun reading it. What I think the bottom line is Cats are: Unique
Obligate carnivores
We don’t really know anything that we can prove because all of our studies are extremely limited, biased or non existent!
Oh yeah, and one of us works for Royal Canin. (Of course that is at the very end of the miserably long pdf.)

Cats still don’t get the recognition dogs do. Then again with the way studies can be done, maybe it’s just as well.

 

[haleyrose99]

I am not going to read all of this. I can tell you convenia is a very dangerous drug.

I'm so incredibly sorry for your loss, no one should ever have to go through what you and your kitty did. Your posts about convenia were a few of the ones I read after learning more about it. I appreciate you sharing your story and informing others, it's really helped me.

First, what happened to your outdoor cat is appalling! It's terrifying that vets are administering medication without telling the owners. Incredibly unprofessional on their part, not only giving convenia for no reason but also trying to cover their own butts after you said something. I'm glad that he came through okay.
I also had no idea about the money factor! It is so disheartening thats some vets are putting dollars over the safety of pets.

Looking online, I see that their manufacturer website states it can be used for "skin disease, bacterial infections, and allergies" so I can vaguely assume what my vet was intending to do. But as you said, without knowing what is causing the reaction, it feels like using a sledgehammer to nail a sewing needle into the wall. It's excessive for a situation like this, and I'm so regretful I didn't look this medication up sooner, let alone allow them to get it in the first place. Not to mention she basically had back-to-back injections, only 3-4 weeks apart. It's hard not to worry about what will happen in the next two months.

Like you, I was also not thinking clearly- besides the stress of trying to figure out what's wrong, my grandpa got incredibly sick last month and passed a few days before her last vet visit on Friday. The vet did not inform me of any side effects or discuss/offer any other options for medication, but I myself dropped the ball and blindly trusted because I was caught up in what was happening in my life. Not to mention we were incredibly stressed during the horrendous Friday appointment- three excited barking large breed dogs in the waiting room with us (including a german shepard, whose owner let him lunge at Phoebe and I), no accommodation for my tiny little frightened kitten, and all could be heard in the exam room we were in. We were there for over an hour. I've never seen Phoebe so frightened, I almost walked out of the appointment (at this point I wish that I had). Safe to say after everything, I won't be returning to that clinic.

I did try to buy Dr. Mercola's from the recommendation on the facebook page I saw in one of your posts previously. It seems that they're making a new formula now though, and I'm not sure if it will have the same effectiveness. Couldn't get benebac either. I still have a probiotic at least though.

A friend told me to grow a backbone because I tend to flounder at visits, letting vets run me in circles and talk over me or down to me (character flaw sadly, child of a narcissist here).
It will be a long wait for the dermatologist unfortunatley, but I have an appointment tomorrow with a new vet and I wrote a list of everything that needs to be acknowledged and discussed. This time I WILL be asking about every step, every medication, and every possible diagnosis. I don't care how dumb or paranoid I might seem. I just want them to be thoroughly checked after everything. I cannot put my babies through this situation again, knowing what I know now and watching their reactions after the injections.

Thank you for the well wishes. No crazy reactions from Phoebe so far but her energy, appetite, and digestion are still fluctuating. It's only been 5 days though, and still have no idea what's wrong/how serious anything is so we have a long road ahead of us.

 

[haleyrose99]

My cat received the convenia three times. Each time she pulled most of her fur out leaving only a ridge on her spine and boots on her legs. I was told this could not possibly be caused by the convenia.

Oh my goodness that reaction sounds so scary, I'm so sorry your kitty had to go through that and that your concerns weren't taken seriously when they seem to be obviously justified. The borderline gaslighting afterward is just ridiculous and unprofessional. I hope your kitty is doing okay now!
The fact that you had to put your hand in front of the syringe of penicillin is insane, it's horrible to think that vets aren't even thoroughly reading charts before treating a pet!
I agree with meowmee's reply, it seems that all the vets I have seen have been relatively dismissive in general, even after watching the videos of Phoebe and telling me it's very much not good and needs to be treated. I called my most recent vet about Phoebe's lack of appetite after the convenia, and I was told "she will eat if she's hungry enough"... like are you kidding? She's just a baby still, she can't not eat
Not sure if it's just the vets in my area, or if I'm not asking the right questions and standing my ground. I'll definitely be more firm at their visit tomorrow because you're right- they're my pets and its my decision.

 

[Meowmee]

I'm so incredibly sorry for your loss, no one should ever have to go through what you and your kitty did. Your posts about convenia were a few of the ones I read after learning more about it. I appreciate you sharing your story and informing others, it's really helped me.

First, what happened to your outdoor cat is appalling! It's terrifying that vets are administering medication without telling the owners. Incredibly unprofessional on their part, not only giving convenia for no reason but also trying to cover their own butts after you said something. I'm glad that he came through okay.
I also had no idea about the money factor! It is so disheartening thats some vets are putting dollars over the safety of pets.

Looking online, I see that their manufacturer website states it can be used for "skin disease, bacterial infections, and allergies" so I can vaguely assume what my vet was intending to do. But as you said, without knowing what is causing the reaction, it feels like using a sledgehammer to nail a sewing needle into the wall. It's excessive for a situation like this, and I'm so regretful I didn't look this medication up sooner, let alone allow them to get it in the first place. Not to mention she basically had back-to-back injections, only 3-4 weeks apart. It's hard not to worry about what will happen in the next two months.

Like you, I was also not thinking clearly- besides the stress of trying to figure out what's wrong, my grandpa got incredibly sick last month and passed a few days before her last vet visit on Friday. The vet did not inform me of any side effects or discuss/offer any other options for medication, but I myself dropped the ball and blindly trusted because I was caught up in what was happening in my life. Not to mention we were incredibly stressed during the horrendous Friday appointment- three excited barking large breed dogs in the waiting room with us (including a german shepard, whose owner let him lunge at Phoebe and I), no accommodation for my tiny little frightened kitten, and all could be heard in the exam room we were in. We were there for over an hour. I've never seen Phoebe so frightened, I almost walked out of the appointment (at this point I wish that I had). Safe to say after everything, I won't be returning to that clinic.

I did try to buy Dr. Mercola's from the recommendation on the facebook page I saw in one of your posts previously. It seems that they're making a new formula now though, and I'm not sure if it will have the same effectiveness. Couldn't get benebac either. I still have a probiotic at least though.

A friend told me to grow a backbone because I tend to flounder at visits, letting vets run me in circles and talk over me or down to me (character flaw sadly, child of a narcissist here).
It will be a long wait for the dermatologist unfortunatley, but I have an appointment tomorrow with a new vet and I wrote a list of everything that needs to be acknowledged and discussed. This time I WILL be asking about every step, every medication, and every possible diagnosis. I don't care how dumb or paranoid I might seem. I just want them to be thoroughly checked after everything. I cannot put my babies through this situation again, knowing what I know now and watching their reactions after the injections.

Thank you for the well wishes. No crazy reactions from Phoebe so far but her energy, appetite, and digestion are still fluctuating. It's only been 5 days though, and still have no idea what's wrong/how serious anything is so we have a long road ahead of us.

Ty for you kind words… For Phoebe That is terrible about the dogs. My Sybil also hated going to one dvm with lots of dogs. One dvm there was the very best around, but they retired and now it is awful. It became a vca.
I tried taking her to a cat only Dvm for a while but she hated that even more- she totally freaked out due to cats free roaming the office who lived there I think. Either that or she did not like the doctor. He was the only one who I have met here who was against convenia too… she was so upset to the point that they could not get any urine out of her or examine her so we went back to our regular where they were very good at doing all of that type of thing.
It is so hard when you are stressed to deal with all of these people. I hope the new dvm is better and that she will recover soon from all of this. I don’t remember now which probiotics were recommended because it’s been a long time- I never even had a chance to give any to Angie because she was so ill. Hugs to you and Phoebe

 

[haleyrose99]

Update after today's visit: I think it went well?
I'm optimistic because this vet was very thorough. She let me explain everything in detail, she explained everything to me in detail, and she asked me if there was anything I didn't understand. Sadly, this is more than I've ever gotten out of any other vet.

There are a few symptoms I didn't put in this post (but are in some of my others) for brevities sake and because the itching and sneezing were the cause for the initial injections. As I said, they've always had some sneezing and squinting, but Phoebe had some opaque eye discharge a few weeks ago (cleared up on its own, but the past couple of days her eyes have been a bit wet) and Milo recently has had some possible redness around the eyes and yellow crusties. Both have always had random bouts of diarrhea and currently, they have some mucus in there. Both also have had some weird breathing, like getting out of breath very easily when playing (I'm talking within 10-30 seconds). Within the last week or two, Milo started snorting when he takes deep breaths, drooling a little bit, and he has had some coughing (which leads to him slinging snot).

For the potty problems, she suspects food (which I expected) and/or stress because of the mucus. They were on Hill's z/d first and wouldn't eat it, but I now know it was probably from the upset stomach due to convenia and vetalog. But in any case, she told me Hill's is the least palatable so she typically offers Royal Canin so she gave me a script for that. She also gave me Proviable, which I was actually hoping for, and told me to keep the apartment calm if I can. Hopefully, the Proviable will help, Milo is so sick and tired of me using a wet rag to wipe his butt every time he poops

For the itching, as expected again, she believes it to be a food allergy. She actually told me she was shocked when she saw convenia listed as a previous medication and didn't understand why they had gotten it in the first place. She said that in their clinic, convenia is either never used or is at the least the very last option, and wouldn't be used for a suspected allergy. Not to mention the fact that they're really young, which she said was a bit concerning. Thankfully, Phoebe still seems to be okay at the moment and trucking along, but I will be watching her.

For the respiratory, she suspects a URI at the least (suggested at my last visit with my previous vet, but he didn't really discuss further or overtly treat it unless that's what the convenia was for). The combination of symptoms plus the fact that they already have FHV, she said it's very likely they are having a flare-up, especially with all the stress of other symptoms, vet visits and treatment. When she listened to both of their lungs, and Phoebe's were okay but Milo's we're a bit off. She offered an x-ray to check his heart and lungs, which I agreed to. She actually pulled it up for me, explained what everything is and why it looks the way it does, and showed a side by side of Milo's lungs compared to a healthy patients lungs (a sweet kitty named Frank). She saw some inflammation, and she said the x-ray coloring was a little more heavy/dense than she would have liked. She believes it to be the beginning of asthma, and said if he doesn't improve by his next visit, they can test him for it. I didn't even consider it then, but could this be bordetella as well? I have no knowledge or experience with it, only what I can find online, but the symptoms seem similar. I don't know, it's also been four months since they've been in a shelter and the symptoms are just happening now so it doesn't seem plausible to me, unless it got picked up at a vet along the line?

I was given Amoxiclav (which is the same as Clavomax I believe) suspension 75 mg 1.1ml every 12 hours for 10 days, in addition to the probiotics. We have a follow-up appointment in two weeks, and as mentioned she said we can do further testing if needed.

I guess my question is- is the Clavamox okay to give to Phoebe? She's already had two Convenia injections, Milo has had one. The vet did say it was okay, and that she has had to do it in the past for some very sick pets and there weren't any issues. But I don't know, it seems like a lot of medicine to be putting in her... I don't want to be too trusting and totally wreck Phoebe's body. I saw a comment on another thread that giving clavamox to a cat with two shots of convenia is a no-no, so I'm just wary. I don't have to give it until tomorrow, but does anyone know anything? I'd just like some peace of mind

 

[Meowmee]

Update after today's visit: I think it went well?
I'm optimistic because this vet was very thorough. She let me explain everything in detail, she explained everything to me in detail, and she asked me if there was anything I didn't understand. Sadly, this is more than I've ever gotten out of any other vet.

There are a few symptoms I didn't put in this post (but are in some of my others) for brevities sake and because the itching and sneezing were the cause for the initial injections. As I said, they've always had some sneezing and squinting, but Phoebe had some opaque eye discharge a few weeks ago (cleared up on its own, but the past couple of days her eyes have been a bit wet) and Milo recently has had some possible redness around the eyes and yellow crusties. Both have always had random bouts of diarrhea and currently, they have some mucus in there. Both also have had some weird breathing, like getting out of breath very easily when playing (I'm talking within 10-30 seconds). Within the last week or two, Milo started snorting when he takes deep breaths, drooling a little bit, and he has had some coughing (which leads to him slinging snot).

For the potty problems, she suspects food (which I expected) and/or stress because of the mucus. They were on Hill's z/d first and wouldn't eat it, but I now know it was probably from the upset stomach due to convenia and vetalog. But in any case, she told me Hill's is the least palatable so she typically offers Royal Canin so she gave me a script for that. She also gave me Proviable, which I was actually hoping for, and told me to keep the apartment calm if I can. Hopefully, the Proviable will help, Milo is so sick and tired of me using a wet rag to wipe his butt every time he poops

For the itching, as expected again, she believes it to be a food allergy. She actually told me she was shocked when she saw convenia listed as a previous medication and didn't understand why they had gotten it in the first place. She said that in their clinic, convenia is either never used or is at the least the very last option, and wouldn't be used for a suspected allergy. Not to mention the fact that they're really young, which she said was a bit concerning. Thankfully, Phoebe still seems to be okay at the moment and trucking along, but I will be watching her.

For the respiratory, she suspects a URI at the least (suggested at my last visit with my previous vet, but he didn't really discuss further or overtly treat it unless that's what the convenia was for). The combination of symptoms plus the fact that they already have FHV, she said it's very likely they are having a flare-up, especially with all the stress of other symptoms, vet visits and treatment. When she listened to both of their lungs, and Phoebe's were okay but Milo's we're a bit off. She offered an x-ray to check his heart and lungs, which I agreed to. She actually pulled it up for me, explained what everything is and why it looks the way it does, and showed a side by side of Milo's lungs compared to a healthy patients lungs (a sweet kitty named Frank). She saw some inflammation, and she said the x-ray coloring was a little more heavy/dense than she would have liked. She believes it to be the beginning of asthma, and said if he doesn't improve by his next visit, they can test him for it. I didn't even consider it then, but could this be bordetella as well? I have no knowledge or experience with it, only what I can find online, but the symptoms seem similar. I don't know, it's also been four months since they've been in a shelter and the symptoms are just happening now so it doesn't seem plausible to me, unless it got picked up at a vet along the line?

I was given Amoxiclav (which is the same as Clavomax I believe) suspension 75 mg 1.1ml every 12 hours for 10 days, in addition to the probiotics. We have a follow-up appointment in two weeks, and as mentioned she said we can do further testing if needed.

I guess my question is- is the Clavamox okay to give to Phoebe? She's already had two Convenia injections, Milo has had one. The vet did say it was okay, and that she has had to do it in the past for some very sick pets and there weren't any issues. But I don't know, it seems like a lot of medicine to be putting in her... I don't want to be too trusting and totally wreck Phoebe's body. I saw a comment on another thread that giving clavamox to a cat with two shots of convenia is a no-no, so I'm just wary. I don't have to give it until tomorrow, but does anyone know anything? I'd just like some peace of mind

I would not give her the clavamox if it were me. Convenia needs to get out of her system. Why did dvm think she needs an antibiotic? It seems she has no confirmed bacterial infection? Uri is usually a virus. Same for Milo. Asthma does not need an antibiotic unless a bacterial infection develops, if he had convenia too I would not give it to him either. Neither is critically ill either tg.

Also, if they have fhv and are flairing that can explain a lot of their symptoms. Did you try lysine?

 

[haleyrose99]

I would not give her the clavamox if it were me. Convenia needs to get out of her system. Why did dvm think she needs an antibiotic? It seems she has no confirmed bacterial infection? Uri is usually a virus. Same for Milo. Asthma does not need an antibiotic unless a bacterial infection develops, if he had convenia too I would not give it to him either. Neither is critically ill either tg.

Also, if they have fhv and are flairing that can explain a lot of their symptoms. Did you try lysine?

That's what I'm thinking as well. I guess I probably could've waited to schedule a visit for a later time once the convenia ran its course. I honestly didn't even expect to come out with any medication, I just wanted them to get thoroughly checked. What's perplexing me is the acknowledgment that these symptoms are some form of allergy but I keep getting antibiotics thrown at me. I did ask about antihistamines and was told if this treatment doesn't work, benadryl is an option. She did agree that steroids would be a last resort, and only when they are older.
She said she gave the clavamox for the suspected URI and respiratory issues, but she did not confirm a bacterial infection, correct. They just got a physical for both and Milo got an x-ray, no other testing. At this point I feel like I got ran in circles again.
But yes, I have been giving them lysine since Oct 31st of last year but honestly, I have not seen improvement. My vet did say it's possible it wouldn't help and it won't hurt for them to have it, but if it doesn't I can stop anytime. I haven't yet because weirdly Phoebe LOVES the stuff, she comes screaming when she hears me open the gel cap
At this point, I'm wondering if I'm the crazy one and it's all in my head. I'm even wondering if the allergy is to the lysine gel now, because the symptoms line up (itching/biting skin, appetite fluctuation, diarrhea), but then again so do most allergy causes. As I said in a previous comment, this is not constant. Usually bad for a day or a few, then it sort of stops until it starts again. It does make her not all that excited to eat and she gets a bit lethargic because I'm sure it's tiring. In any case, I'm attaching some videos because I just realized I've never shown what her symptoms look like. Here's two:

Not sure if it's obvious in the video, but sometimes I can distract her by playing, like with my pant string here.

Milo trying to help in the last video Thinking I might just wait this out with the probiotics and see where it takes us.

 

[silent meowlook]

Hi. When a crazy is having a flare up if herpes, it leaves them open to secondary bacterial infections. That is most likely why she prescribed the clavamox. Usually if a nasal discharge or ocular discharge is anything but clear, it can mean an infection. I don’t really like Clavamox for cats, it can cause GI upset. But, allot of vets do use it.

Stress is a huge factor in herpes virus in cats.

It sounds like you had a much better visit this time, and at least this vet took her time and explained things to you.

 

[Meowmee]

That's what I'm thinking as well. I guess I probably could've waited to schedule a visit for a later time once the convenia ran its course. I honestly didn't even expect to come out with any medication, I just wanted them to get thoroughly checked. What's perplexing me is the acknowledgment that these symptoms are some form of allergy but I keep getting antibiotics thrown at me. I did ask about antihistamines and was told if this treatment doesn't work, benadryl is an option. She did agree that steroids would be a last resort, and only when they are older.
She said she gave the clavamox for the suspected URI and respiratory issues, but she did not confirm a bacterial infection, correct. They just got a physical for both and Milo got an x-ray, no other testing. At this point I feel like I got ran in circles again.
But yes, I have been giving them lysine since Oct 31st of last year but honestly, I have not seen improvement. My vet did say it's possible it wouldn't help and it won't hurt for them to have it, but if it doesn't I can stop anytime. I haven't yet because weirdly Phoebe LOVES the stuff, she comes screaming when she hears me open the gel cap
At this point, I'm wondering if I'm the crazy one and it's all in my head. I'm even wondering if the allergy is to the lysine gel now, because the symptoms line up (itching/biting skin, appetite fluctuation, diarrhea), but then again so do most allergy causes. As I said in a previous comment, this is not constant. Usually bad for a day or a few, then it sort of stops until it starts again. It does make her not all that excited to eat and she gets a bit lethargic because I'm sure it's tiring. In any case, I'm attaching some videos because I just realized I've never shown what her symptoms look like. Here's two:

Not sure if it's obvious in the video, but sometimes I can distract her by playing, like with my pant string here.

Milo trying to help in the last video Thinking I might just wait this out with the probiotics and see where it takes us.

Aww poor thing… it does look like itching to me too. What the cause is I can’t say of course. That’s funny that she likes the lysine gel. But if you think that might be causing the itching just stop it and see if the itching goes away maybe- did the itching start when she started taking lysine?

re: The Clavamox and herpes flare and possible bacterial infection. I agree with SM on why the Dvm would prescribe it but I don’t think it’s right. Because if she didn’t show sign of a green or yellow it’s discharge there’s still no evidence of any bacterial infection. Sometimes doctors will prescribe them to try to prevent that from happening. However since both your cats just had convenia and pheobe is reacting to it there is no way I would give them another antibiotic right now.

I would just wait a month, give them the probiotics and wait to go to a dermatologist. Once you think she’s OK from the convenia you could try the anti-histamine and see if that helps. Chlorphenerimine is one that I used to give to my cats when they needed one. If they do seem worse and it seems like it’s bacterial you can always give them the clavamox if they really need it. But right now I don’t think it would be a good idea because it’s just going to add more into the mix when they still have convenia in their system. Well that’s just my opinion but you have to decide what you think is best for your kitties.

I used to try to give lysine to Wizard because he was FIV positive and he had mild herpes symptoms sometimes. But almost everything that I gave him in pill form made him vomit so I stopped.

They are very pretty kitties that is so sweet that Milo comes over to try and help her when she’s so itchy. They are so sensitive to each other.

 

[haleyrose99]

I will respond to these messages after work, but I did just get a call from my vet and she told me the clavamox was actually not for the URI like I understood, it was specifically for the GI issues in both kittens, and for Milo's lung inflammation. Again, no tests have been done for bacterial infection, but she said at their next visit she will set up a GI panel for them to look for enzyme deficiencies. At the moment I don't see any other symptoms of bacterial infection in Milo's lungs besides that he gets out of breathe easily from playing (the nasal and ocular discharge was very short lived a few weeks ago). Which could be asthma as well, I'd have to wait for a test. Looking online I don't see clavamox being mentioned as a treatment for GI issues, if anything I just see that clavamox causes the GI upset. Unless I'm just not seeing anything? Anybody know anything about this? I haven't given it yet because of the convenia and I'm a bit worried it will hurt them, their appetite is still kind of hit or miss and I would hate for them to vomit or stop eating entirely because of the clavamox.

 

[Alldara]

haleyrose99 I have only used clavamox once, for my late cat Lily. She was on 4 different types of medication including that.

I know Kitten Lady has Ferguson who is permanently on Clavamox because he stops eating when off it and no one knows why, including his specialists. At least last update I read that was the conclusion.

Anyway, Clavamox is used in very young kittens and is fairly safe. I don't think you need to keep worrying so much over the convenia. Most side effects would have happened already.
URIs — Kitten Lady

I usually check what the VCA says on any medications for my cats.
Amoxicillin-Clavulanic Acid

And then I usually check the manufacturer for their lists of side effects: Zoetis

I do NOT search the random internet, as you will 100% without doubt hear horror stories about everything. However, we don't get the full information, and each cat is an individual. I'm always very aware that each cat has their own potential allergies and reactions and again that you won't hear stories of, "my cat had this basic infection and got better from this basic medicine." New medicines likely yes, or for tricky diseases you'll find that kind of thing, but not for basics. People just aren't going to be out there posting good news so the internet is always a skewed result. Kind of like how people always ask to speak to a manager about a negative experience and not about positive ones.

 

[r-kins]

I can't talk much about the meds or allergies because I don't have experience with that, but regarding the eating, since it's the most important thing right now...

Because she's hungry but then walking away, have you considered something to help soothe her stomach? Perhaps she's nauseous. My cat was on pepcid, so see if your vet thinks that could help.

There are also appetite stimulants you can ask about. And keep a close eye on her to make sure she isn't dehydrated.

 

[mrsgreenjeens]

I've had two different cats who could not take Clavamox. In their case, they completely stopped eating and I honestly thought they were going to die. They had notes in their file to never get that drug again. Now I have a cat who gets diarrhea from it

Most antibiotics have one side effect or another. If you are concerned about giving any antibiotic so close to them having had Convenia, call the Vet back and discuss it. I think that's your best bet since we are not Vets here, we can only give your our experiences and moral support .

Gorgeous kitties, BTW