Considering A Third...again

stormyandklaus

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I've posted about this before but we decided against getting a third at that time. My husband was not for it at that time but recently has expressed openness to getting a third.

We are in an apartment with a max of 2 and our landlord is very hands off/lives off property and there are never apartment inspections, etc--we've lived here for 3 years, we are quiet and we pay our rent on time so I don't worry about them finding out. Plus our lease is up in August and we will be buying a house. There is an adorable male cat, Mushu, about 4 years old available at the rescue that I volunteer for. He is in a foster home now but was at the shelter for a few months so I've spent time with him and know his temperament, personality, etc. He's great with other cats, very mellow and easy going, loves to play. He understands boundaries and would back off when some of the feistier cats would demand it. He doesn't have a domineering personality but isn't a wallflower either. He is a fun loving, easy going cat.

Backstory: my two male cats, Stormy & Klaus, have never got along. I've had them both for almost a year. Stormy is 8 years old (shelters guess- he could be younger or older), mellow, and likes to do his own thing but still be near the family. He is gentle and sweet, but does love to play and chase toys. After getting Stormy last year, I got Klaus who is now 1.5 years old. I wanted to get Stormy a buddy because my husband and I work full time and are away from home during the day. Klaus definitely still has "kitten energy". Klaus likes to pick on Stormy, and I'm not sure if it's out of boredom (seems likely) or because he is territorial. He likes to "ambush" Stormy and chase him. Stormy will hiss and show discomfort. He has swatted at Klaus a few times and gave him little scabs. I've had to break up fights rarely, because I usually separate them or redirect Klaus before it gets to that point. Mind you, it is pretty rare for it to escalate into full on fighting. But hissing and chasing is an everyday thing. He seems territorial at times too but again I can't distinguish what's territorial and what's boredom. For all the things I'm about to describe I thought it'd be worth mentioning that this does not happen 100% of the time, but maybe half the time. He will run up to Stormy and will bite him while Stormy is using the litter box. If he is close to Stormy and sees him scratch the cat tree post he will bite him--not sure if this is because he sees him occupied so he's like ambush! in a playful way or if it's like don't mark your scent on my territory so attack! in a territorial way. He'll chase Stormy off the bed or couch too. The only thing that makes me think that Klaus does these things more out of boredom than anything is that he never has never hurt Stormy and I don't think he wants to. He doesn't attack to maim whereas if Klaus pushes Stormy enough Stormy will leave little scabs on Klaus. And Klaus never hisses whereas Stormy will hiss at Klaus. So it kind of all seems like a game to Klaus, which is why I think he would do good with a friend that actually wants to play with him.

I know now that while Stormy loves to play, he does not love to play with other cats (or at least not Klaus). But I also think that Klaus doesn't understand boundaries. Like, he doesn't back off when Stormy is hissing at him. But he loves to play! And we do try to play with him as much as possible with toys but he really prefers to play with other cats I think. Klaus was taken away from his litter early as a kitten so I think he never learned boundaries of play because he still play bites me and my husband too (we are trying to train him out of it). He's a really sweet cat, I just imagine him as socially awkward with other cats haha. Mushu seems to fit the bill as a cat that will fit in with our boys. He gets along with other cats, loves to play, but understands boundaries so I think he'd leave Stormy alone who would hopefully finally get some respite from Klaus. I don't know how he'd get on with Klaus but my hope is that they would play with each other! The last thing I want to do is make things worse. I know that the slow introduction could be rocky, and that there could be initial hostility but I hate to adopt Mushu only to return him and cause him more confusion. Mushu was in a home before being brought to the shelter (the Good Samaritan who rescued him housed him for a few months), then he was at the shelter for a few months, then he went into a foster home to make more room for cats at the shelter, then got adopted out, was returned (need to find out why still because everything I know about him is that he's a really easy cat). Based on that I'm sure you can see why I really want this to work! If it does work this would make everything much easier and all cats happier! My husband and I both already love Mushu too as we've met and spent time with him.

any insights, advice, comments are always appreciated. I love this site and how knowledgeable you all are.
 

Furballsmom

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I don't worry about them finding out. Plus our lease is up in August and we will be buying a house.
Just be very sure that nothing requires repair, both so that you get your deposit back (hopefully) and also so that you don't need a janitor or other property maintenance to come in to your place. Also, try and ensure that the cats don't meow and cause someone else to turn you in.

How To Successfully Introduce Cats: The Ultimate Guide

The Multi-cat Household

How To Help A New Cat Adjust To Your Home

How Many Litterboxes Should You Have?

Do Cats Get Jealous? (and What To Do About It When They Do)

How To Move With Your Cat To A New Home In A Safe Way
 
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stormyandklaus

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Just be very sure that nothing requires repair, both so that you get your deposit back (hopefully) and also so that you don't need a janitor or other property maintenance to come in to your place. Also, try and ensure that the cats don't meow and cause someone else to turn you in.

How To Successfully Introduce Cats: The Ultimate Guide

The Multi-cat Household

How To Help A New Cat Adjust To Your Home

How Many Litterboxes Should You Have?

Do Cats Get Jealous? (and What To Do About It When They Do)

How To Move With Your Cat To A New Home In A Safe Way
Cats would be out of the apartment by the time we move out. We have places they could temporarily be held at while we move while janitor/maintenance would be there. We do need to replace the blinds (thanks, Klaus) but they already know we have 2 cats anyway. Other than that everything is fine. Thankfully we don't have spraying or scratching issues! My main concern lies in making things worse behavior-wise by getting another rather than making things better. I suppose I do know that the true answer to that question is that there's no way to know without trying but reading this forum and seeing how others experiences with this have gone helps me make an informed decision. :geekcat:
 

Furballsmom

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Something you can do for them during introductions, as you're packing and afterwards while unpacking (for the stress) is consider calming products and music.

There is low volume classical harp music, there is MusicForCats . com and also there's an app called Relax My Cat, as sources for ways to help your cats be more calm.

I recall that not to long ago there was a thread asking the question would it be better to get an additional cat before their move to a new house or after, and the answers were about 50-50.
 
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stormyandklaus

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Something you can do for them during introductions, as you're packing and afterwards while unpacking (for the stress) is consider calming products and music.

There is low volume classical harp music, there is MusicForCats . com and also there's an app called Relax My Cat, as sources for ways to help your cats be more calm.

I recall that not to long ago there was a thread asking the question would it be better to get an additional cat before their move to a new house or after, and the answers were about 50-50.
Great point about the music/app! I'll check them out.

Thank you, I will look for that thread too! That definitely is something else to think about considering we will be moving. I could see how it's better/worse both ways.
 

susanm9006

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If I had two cats and that was all I was allowed under my lease to have I would not get a third unless I was prepared to move. And if I had two cats that didn’t get along all that well I would not add a third. While a third might improve relationships it is just as likely in my opinion to make it worse.
 
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stormyandklaus

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If I had two cats and that was all I was allowed under my lease to have I would not get a third unless I was prepared to move. And if I had two cats that didn’t get along all that well I would not add a third. While a third might improve relationships it is just as likely in my opinion to make it worse.
Oh yeah, we could wait until we move and that would take away that issue. Mushu is just pulling at my heart and seems like a good fit which is why I'm considering it. Otherwise I was just planning on waiting until we move anyway.

But I'm not sure if I agree about the second part. I feel like I'm doing a disservice to both of them in their current situation. That's why I want to try a third. Stormy doesn't like being chased and stalked all the time and Klaus doesn't like being bored. But you are absolutely right that it could make things worse. I guess what I'm thinking is we won't know though unless we try. The hard part for me is putting the new cat through the stress of rehoming if things didn't work out. That's the part that makes me hesitant.

I appreciate the feedback! Its definitely not a decision we make lightly and at the end of the day I just want all kitties to be happy and loved :lovecat:
 

maggie101

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Peaches and Maggie got along as kittens. But as they got older, Peaches only plays when she wants to play so they do not get along so well. Later, I rescued Coco when she was adult. Now Maggie has no one to play with and does not like Coco. Maggie wants me to herself. Now Maggie used to sit with me but no more because of Coco. Peaches and Coco play together. Coco has taken her place and I can tell it gets Maggie upset.

So, if you adopt him, beware that one might get left out. I try to spend lots of time playing with Maggie. She is very attached to me.
 

maggie101

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Peaches and Maggie got along as kittens. But as they got older, Peaches only plays when she wants to play so they do not get along so well. Later, I rescued Coco when she was adult. Now Maggie has no one to play with and does not like Coco. Maggie wants me to herself. Now Maggie used to sit with me but no more because of Coco. Peaches and Coco play together. Coco has taken her place and I can tell it gets Maggie upset.

So, if you adopt him, beware that one might get left out. I try to spend lots of time playing with Maggie. She is very attached to me.
My cats are 5,6,and 7 yrs old. Coco the youngest then Maggie. I have had Coco for a year. She has always been afraid of Maggie
 

maggie101

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It sounds like the cat you want to adopt will work out since he is friendly with other cats. Coco will not defend herself from Maggie. Now Maggie no longer fights her but Coco remembers so she runs from her. I wrote a long story about her in my profile
 

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My 2 cents: We had two boys for about 18 months before we got our third. The boys were right around 2 years old at the time. Duncan, the original cat, is a bit of a bully to Barry and plays a bit rough, however, they did get along and play pretty well when Duncan wasn't pushing it too far. This sounds a lot like your situation.

We recently added Paisley - a VERY forward kitten. She was 3 or 4 months old when we got her - she made sure we noticed her because she was the one reaching out of the cage to the shelter volunteer.

Paisley did something unexpected - she broke up Duncan's intensity towards Barry giving Barry a rest and letting Duncan get out some energy. This also let Barry relax and come into his own a lot more. We were very nervous about what a third cat would do to the dynamic, but in our case it really worked out well.
 
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stormyandklaus

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It sounds like the cat you want to adopt will work out since he is friendly with other cats. Coco will not defend herself from Maggie. Now Maggie no longer fights her but Coco remembers so she runs from her. I wrote a long story about her in my profile
Thank you! I'll check out your past posts on them! It's always helpful to read stories of how things worked out for others :)
 
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stormyandklaus

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My 2 cents: We had two boys for about 18 months before we got our third. The boys were right around 2 years old at the time. Duncan, the original cat, is a bit of a bully to Barry and plays a bit rough, however, they did get along and play pretty well when Duncan wasn't pushing it too far. This sounds a lot like your situation.

We recently added Paisley - a VERY forward kitten. She was 3 or 4 months old when we got her - she made sure we noticed her because she was the one reaching out of the cage to the shelter volunteer.

Paisley did something unexpected - she broke up Duncan's intensity towards Barry giving Barry a rest and letting Duncan get out some energy. This also let Barry relax and come into his own a lot more. We were very nervous about what a third cat would do to the dynamic, but in our case it really worked out well.
Thank you, your situation does sound a lot like ours. Because our two boys now aren't out to kill each other or anything, they do get along most of the time. Klaus is just super energetic and Stormy just likes to keep to himself. So glad it worked out with your kitties
 

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We have 4 young boys and they all get along really well. They have their days where they play too rough or want their space but we also catch them grooming each other and following each other around the apartment. I think the most important part of a cat's social dynamic is their access to resources and having to share. I firmly believe that cats do not like sharing. Even the nicest cat seems to hate it when another cat is using "his toy" or sitting in "his spot". So I have always made sure to provide adequate resources to each. Duplicate toys, numerous perch areas, scratching post variety, and identical white ceramic feeding dishes. They all get the same type of food and eat around each other as a "family". None of them came from the same litter and one is a bengal/siamese mix with a needy personality and is very vocal and demanding. Another one of our cats (Otis) is an orange tabby who is very smart, vocal and outgoing. So between those two and my other two boys, the mix definitely could have gone VERY wrong. But you can tell they love each other and get sufficient attention from us.
 
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stormyandklaus

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We have 4 young boys and they all get along really well. They have their days where they play too rough or want their space but we also catch them grooming each other and following each other around the apartment. I think the most important part of a cat's social dynamic is their access to resources and having to share. I firmly believe that cats do not like sharing. Even the nicest cat seems to hate it when another cat is using "his toy" or sitting in "his spot". So I have always made sure to provide adequate resources to each. Duplicate toys, numerous perch areas, scratching post variety, and identical white ceramic feeding dishes. They all get the same type of food and eat around each other as a "family". None of them came from the same litter and one is a bengal/siamese mix with a needy personality and is very vocal and demanding. Another one of our cats (Otis) is an orange tabby who is very smart, vocal and outgoing. So between those two and my other two boys, the mix definitely could have gone VERY wrong. But you can tell they love each other and get sufficient attention from us.
Thank you for your response! I agree that equal access to resources is important. We have 3 cat trees and some vertical space which I think helps too. My cats kind of have "their spots" in the apartment which works out for them. I'm glad all of your boys get along!
 

maggie101

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Thank you for your response! I agree that equal access to resources is important. We have 3 cat trees and some vertical space which I think helps too. My cats kind of have "their spots" in the apartment which works out for them. I'm glad all of your boys get along!
Yes,duplicate toys. My cats do not share
 
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stormyandklaus

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I wanted to post a follow up on this thread...we ended up adopting Mushu about 10 days ago and things are going GREAT! Klaus no longer picks on Stormy and he loves his new playmate! He finally has a cat to play with and it confirmed that he was acting out of boredom, not aggression. Stormy is much more relaxed too and glad to finally have some peace & quiet. It was such an easy and fast introduction too, Stormy and Klaus never hissed once. Mushu initially hissed at them but only on day 1 and it made sense since he was in a new environment. Klaus was a little territorial with Mushu at first but has since figured out that he's a playmate. Mushu is a confident, playful, and loving cat. He fits in perfectly with our family. It seems as if 3 is the magic number for us. I waited to post about this until now because I wanted to be sure that it would work out.

& I've got to post photos :) in the cat tree is Stormy (grey) and Mushu (grey/white). Laying by the door is Klaus and Mushu.
 

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