Conflicting signals, confident or not?

[Ragdolldadnyc]

Hello,
I have learned so much from reading all the various threads, very appreciative. First time posting. Would love your thoughts on:

2 male cats, litter mates, had since kittens, 1 year old. They are nice boys overall.

More dominant cat would approach before meal time sit in my lap, purrs, chin rubs, grooming, playing, all the good stuff. As soon as meal is over he becomes terrified of me and runs and hides. His brother hangs around and sometimes comes to me for additional pets and a nap on my lap. If I break out the second grooming brush, dominant cat looses all inhibitions, rushes over to get his brushes first. Once he is done, back to being terrified and running off. I m very baffled by this behavior. My biggest concern is the poor guy has all this fear. His much more timid brother on the other hand is always hanging around. How can he be so social and confident then immediately loose it all once the activity is over. Should I be concerned? History wise I m certain no abuse occured. There is one area of friction between us though. He will bully his brother around litter box, water bowl and resting spots (despite having multiples of each). I would then distract him with play and he ll stop. Sometimes he persists. I would then gently pick him up and move him to another spot, put him down, sort of pet him to block his view of his brother to give the timid guy time. Could this be the cause?

 

[Antonio65]

Hi and welcome to TCS,

Some cats just have a different personality, built on previous experiences, even during litter time, or based on innate features. Some cats outgrow this as they grow up, others maintain this character lifelong.

As for the meal behavior, he sounds like one of my outdoor cats who only "loves me" when it's mealtime, you can read it in this link

 

[di and bob]

Unless you are yelling at him or swatting, etc., I don't see how moving him to give the other cat space would terrify him. He may be more at ease with all the activities, routines, etc., and then becomes much more insecure when they end. Cats thrive on routine. Just keep giving him attention, he may always be this way, but he will adjust eventually.
My outside cats LOVE a back scratch until they see my hand doing it, then they take off like a rocket. It may be along those lines, he is still unsure what is going on!

 

[PushPurrCatPaws]

... He will bully his brother around litter box, water bowl and resting spots (despite having multiples of each). I would then distract him with play and he ll stop. Sometimes he persists. I would then gently pick him up and move him to another spot, put him down, sort of pet him to block his view of his brother to give the timid guy time. Could this be the cause?

It could be. Have you tried just playing with him when the bullying-the-other-cat starts, but not proceeding to the part where you usually pick him up and move him? You could be right: that maybe he is not doing anything long-term with you, as he is "worried" you might interrupt that with picking him up and moving him. He thinks he can avoid that part of your relating, by just running away first, before it happens?

 

[Alldara]

Do you say anything when you pick him up and move him? Litter peeking behaviour I've always had to train out of male cats but never had them become insecure from it. I usually say no and move them away like you do. After the first few times I usually try just saying, "Hey, *name*. No thanks." Not in a firm voice just calm the first time. I might still have to get up, and move the cat a couple of times or of they're really focused. I think teaching them words really helps them to know what's happening and such.

Can you get a video of the bullying behaviour? Some of it may be him trying to initiate play which might be causing the insecurity. Nobel didn't like Calcifer and Magnus to play when Cal first got here. Nobel would stomp over and break them up. It causes Cal and Mags to take off like that whenever anyone got up and they were playing. Once we caught on camera what was happening, we could spend time encouraging Magnus and Cal to play while comforting Nobel. We would pet Nobel (and I'd keep a hand on his chest if needed), and say, "Magnus and Calcifer play. Good boy Magnus. Good boy Calcifer." Now, it's been some months but we can reach our hands into the playing and give a pat or a pet with no interruptions. (A good boy skritch is nice too!)

 

[Jcatbird]

Maybe I missed it but are they are both neutered?
If they were not ferals then I think this could be dominant kitty knowing he is not supposed to bully but his instincts are to be the top cat. As said before, it could be rough play which is something cats do to establish a “pecking order,” He may just be confused. Reassure him and be patient. If he seems fearful, keep doing whatever brings him back out and reassure him again. All cats are different and it takes time but it may pass as they get older. By the way, Welcome to the site!

 

[Ragdolldadnyc]

Thank you for your response. Good points

Do you say anything when you pick him up and move him? Litter peeking behaviour I've always had to train out of male cats but never had them become insecure from it. I usually say no and move them away like you do. After the first few times I usually try just saying, "Hey, *name*. No thanks." Not in a firm voice just calm the first time. I might still have to get up, and move the cat a couple of times or of they're really focused. I think teaching them words really helps them to know what's happening and such.

Can you get a video of the bullying behaviour? Some of it may be him trying to initiate play which might be causing the insecurity. Nobel didn't like Calcifer and Magnus to play when Cal first got here. Nobel would stomp over and break them up. It causes Cal and Mags to take off like that whenever anyone got up and they were playing. Once we caught on camera what was happening, we could spend time encouraging Magnus and Cal to play while comforting Nobel. We would pet Nobel (and I'd keep a hand on his chest if needed), and say, "Magnus and Calcifer play. Good boy Magnus. Good boy Calcifer." Now, it's been some months but we can reach our hands into the playing and give a pat or a pet with no interruptions. (A good boy skritch is nice too!)

thank you. I will look into the video. Appreciate the info

 

[Ragdolldadnyc]

Maybe I missed it but are they are both neutered?
If they were not ferals then I think this could be dominant kitty knowing he is not supposed to bully but his instincts are to be the top cat. As said before, it could be rough play which is something cats do to establish a “pecking order,” He may just be confused. Reassure him and be patient. If he seems fearful, keep doing whatever brings him back out and reassure him again. All cats are different and it takes time but it may pass as they get older. By the way, Welcome to the site!

Yes indeed they are neutered never feral. Thank you for good points

 

[Ragdolldadnyc]

Do you say anything when you pick him up and move him? Litter peeking behaviour I've always had to train out of male cats but never had them become insecure from it. I usually say no and move them away like you do. After the first few times I usually try just saying, "Hey, *name*. No thanks." Not in a firm voice just calm the first time. I might still have to get up, and move the cat a couple of times or of they're really focused. I think teaching them words really helps them to know what's happening and such.

Can you get a video of the bullying behaviour? Some of it may be him trying to initiate play which might be causing the insecurity. Nobel didn't like Calcifer and Magnus to play when Cal first got here. Nobel would stomp over and break them up. It causes Cal and Mags to take off like that whenever anyone got up and they were playing. Once we caught on camera what was happening, we could spend time encouraging Magnus and Cal to play while comforting Nobel. We would pet Nobel (and I'd keep a hand on his chest if needed), and say, "Magnus and Calcifer play. Good boy Magnus. Good boy Calcifer." Now, it's been some months but we can reach our hands into the playing and give a pat or a pet with no interruptions. (A good boy skritch is nice too!)

I never considered all the verbal aspects. I ll certainly try and be better with that as I m pretty silent around them thinking they prefer quiet but could also be menacing like a predator would so soft tone is a good idea

 

[Ragdolldadnyc]

Hi and welcome to TCS,

Some cats just have a different personality, built on previous experiences, even during litter time, or based on innate features. Some cats outgrow this as they grow up, others maintain this character lifelong.

As for the meal behavior, he sounds like one of my outdoor cats who only "loves me" when it's mealtime, you can read it in this link

Thank you for your input and welcome. There could be a character trait issue that I need to work with

 

[Ragdolldadnyc]

It could be. Have you tried just playing with him when the bullying-the-other-cat starts, but not proceeding to the part where you usually pick him up and move him? You could be right: that maybe he is not doing anything long-term with you, as he is "worried" you might interrupt that with picking him up and moving him. He thinks he can avoid that part of your relating, by just running away first, before it happens?

Definitely something I will keep in mind as I try and put myself in his shoes so to speak

 

[Ragdolldadnyc]

Unless you are yelling at him or swatting, etc., I don't see how moving him to give the other cat space would terrify him. He may be more at ease with all the activities, routines, etc., and then becomes much more insecure when they end. Cats thrive on routine. Just keep giving him attention, he may always be this way, but he will adjust eventually.
My outside cats LOVE a back scratch until they see my hand doing it, then they take off like a rocket. It may be along those lines, he is still unsure what is going on!

Little rascals . I m very gentle with them so I keep things within their comfort zone

 

[Ragdolldadnyc]

Hi and welcome to TCS,

Some cats just have a different personality, built on previous experiences, even during litter time, or based on innate features. Some cats outgrow this as they grow up, others maintain this character lifelong.

As for the meal behavior, he sounds like one of my outdoor cats who only "loves me" when it's mealtime, you can read it in this link

Thank you for response and link

 

[iPappy]

Unless you are yelling at him or swatting, etc., I don't see how moving him to give the other cat space would terrify him. He may be more at ease with all the activities, routines, etc., and then becomes much more insecure when they end. Cats thrive on routine. Just keep giving him attention, he may always be this way, but he will adjust eventually.
My outside cats LOVE a back scratch until they see my hand doing it, then they take off like a rocket. It may be along those lines, he is still unsure what is going on!

Our farm cats are the same. Pet away until they realize you're actually touching them, then they're gone. They remind me of the old Loony Tunes when they run off the cliff and keep running and only fall when they look down!
For the issue in the OP I would maybe try scattering favorite treats on the ground before the attention ends. IDKW this cat is doing this but it seems very strange, and I'm wondering if it's just become a habit. I wonder if using a very favorite food or toy to break that cycle of attention/run as an interrupter would work.