Cleopatra may have IBD(otherwise cancer).

[cleopatras mom]

Thankyou!

It is a night-mare, but I HOPE it is just IBD. Her low dose of Pred is not working, so I will call the vet and ask for a higher one. My vet actually thinks it is cancer, and not IBD. She says that there is nothing we can relly do without a biopsy. I do not have the money for that, and if I did, I cannot put her through it. I will treat her symptoms and hope it is IBD. If it gets worse, I will treat it with Leukeran as well.

How much does Artie eat in a day? Cleo eats 1/2 a cup of Wellness Core, but I need her to eat more. But she only weighs 6 pounds, so that may be asking too much.

Also, do you have any idea what this exactly means? It is on the Wellness Core bag.

Calorie Content: This food contains 3,706 kcal per kilogram or 411 kcal per cup ME (metabolizable energy) on an as fed basis (calculated).

 

[artiemom]

You are quote welcome...It is so confusing a disease. I learned a lot from the knowledgable people her.

Artie is a big boy. He eats canned food. I am giving him Pride (NV) Rabbit. As to how much he eats in a day, it depends on how he feels. He is such a fussy eater. When he gets a tummy ache, or is tired of his food, his intake decreases.

When I adopted him, he was skinny. As I said he is a big boy. He weighed less than 12 lbs. With a lot of work, I managed to get him up to 13.2 lbs. He has had so many periods of not eating. It took a while for us, (Vet and myself) to finally realize it was most likely IBD.

He went from 13.2 lbs down to 11.5 last year. That is when I went to a specialist. He had the biopsy, and started all his medications. 

At his leanest, which was earlier this year, he was down to 10 lbs. I was so afraid to even brush him because his ribs stuck out so much. 

Currently, he is weighing 10.7 lbs....it is a long process. 

Artie varies between 2-3 small cans of food a day. I wish it was more like the 3 or more daily. I also free feed him. 

I have used the dry food (Rabbit) as a 'treat" for him or as a snack. He has completely tired of that food. He refuses it now. 

I do not know if this helps at all.

I am wishing you so much luck and good times with your baby.. 

I am here if you need any more help, although there are many members who have more knowledge than I....

 

[cleopatras mom]

You have offered quite a bit of information for me! And, nonetheless, I enjoy it when people respond to my threads. I feel that I am not alone in this, and others also offer me different ideas and opinions that help me make the best choice possible.

In a way, I really wish that I could have given her a biopsy. But the vet said that sometime sit was not conclusive, and it may not even help. Especially for the 6000$ estimate, and where she suffers so much from just visiting the vet...

I know how you feel about the weight! Cleo has always been tiny, but since I am so paranoid, it is horrible! Cleo's ribs do not stick out, but her hip bones near her tail do, and her stomach is slightly sunk in so you can see the side of her spine on one spot. But, to me, she has NO weight to lose. If she loses a pound, she is in critical care. Soooo, I want her to eat a lot, but I know that is unreasonable. She only eats about 1/2 cup a day. Which is fine, but it may not help with gaining anything. She still looks healthy, plays, has a shiny coat, great teeth...

So, he has gained .7 pounds in 4 months, about? So, then, I will not see a weight gain for several weeks or so?

 

[artiemom]

It depends on the cat... I have never gone by any guideline. Honestly, I do not think there are any.

It is all so variable, depending on your cats condition and food.

You can try different types of food; That is if you are not on a limited diet. My guy is restricted to rabbit. 

You can try the freeze dry raw. You can crush some and sprinkle it on his food. 

There are also high calorie food that the Vet can give you, prescription. Expensive but it may work. 

sending you 

that things do work out for you and your baby. 

I really do not think there are any charts, graphs or anything written in stone with regards to handling this disease. I feel you learn by experience..and the experience of others.. (hugs)

As long as your girl is acting happy, eating, playing, not hiding, not vomiting..then you are on a good course. It takes time. 

Cats do not react to steroids as humans do. There is no 'sudden' weight gain. It is used to help control inflammation.

You could ask your Vet for some mirtazapine. It is a food enticer. Beware though, a lot of cats have side effects from it. Those are excessive talking, meowing, pacing. I refuse to give it to my guy because it effects him that way. If you do get it, try the lowest dose possible..about 1/8 of a tablet. 

 

[stewball]

You have offered quite a bit of information for me! And, nonetheless, I enjoy it when people respond to my threads. I feel that I am not alone in this, and others also offer me different ideas and opinions that help me make the best choice possible.

In a way, I really wish that I could have given her a biopsy. But the vet said that sometime sit was not conclusive, and it may not even help. Especially for the 6000$ estimate, and where she suffers so much from just visiting the vet...

I know how you feel about the weight! Cleo has always been tiny, but since I am so paranoid, it is horrible! Cleo's ribs do not stick out, but her hip bones near her tail do, and her stomach is slightly sunk in so you can see the side of her spine on one spot. But, to me, she has NO weight to lose. If she loses a pound, she is in critical care. Soooo, I want her to eat a lot, but I know that is unreasonable. She only eats about 1/2 cup a day. Which is fine, but it may not help with gaining anything. She still looks healthy, plays, has a shiny coat, great teeth...

So, he has gained .7 pounds in 4 months, about? So, then, I will not see a weight gain for several weeks or so?

You must get rid of those worms.

 

[lisahe]

You must get rid of those worms.

Stewball is so right about the worms! Have you gotten some dewormer for Cleopatra?

 

[cleopatras mom]

Yep! Just picked it up at the vet! I called her last night, and we talked for a while. Now Cleo is getting nearly 5mg of Prednisolone, some probiotics, and a dewormer. I shall give her the wormer now, and the probiotics.

 

[lisahe]

Oh, that's great you were already able to get everything! And doubly great that it sounds like you were able to talk to the vet and not have to bring Cleopatra in again. Fingers crossed that the dewormer works and helps!

 

[artiemom]

hopefully in a few days things will be getting back to normal!!! that would be great!!

Glad you did not have to bring her in..

 

[abby2932]

I'm want to suggest getting Cleopatra on a canned diet...or at least half of her calories to come from canned food. Cats don't have much of a thirst drive and they do not drink enough water to make up for a dry diet, even if she does drink water from a bowl. Cats are designed to receive their proper water intake from their food (prey) and it's so much healthier for their digestion to eat food with a high water content.

I used to feed Wellness Core canned food and I remember my cats liked it a lot. They each ate one 5.5oz can a day

That doesn't really answer you call of help about IBD/cancer but I did want to mention the canned food diet when I saw you talking about how many cups your cat eats a day. I'm surprised no one else said anything.

Just a friendly suggestion!! 

 

 

[cleopatras mom]

Thanks for all the responses, everyone!

And thanks for the advice, Abby! I do understand that a cat should have a wet diet, because it is healthier and more natural. And their water intake is mostly from their prey.

I have tried for a very long time in transitioning her to wet, but she just won't have it. But I understand that it is really important for a cat's health. So, I transitioned her to Wellness Core Turkey and Duck dry. I needed her on a good food immediately, so I think I will feel happier knowing that I do not have to rush the situation. So, I am transitioning her onto it very slowly. Wish me luck! She is a very stubborn cat!

I gave her the dewormer, and now I just have to figure out how to give her her probiotics. I will try just moistening the dry food that she has now.

 

[artiemom]

If the probiotics are in a capsule, I would just give her the capsule.

or mix it with some water, and give through a syringe. I went to the local drug store and picked up a pediatric medicine syringe...works great!

If all she will eat is dry food, then make sure she is drinking adequately.. and supplement if you have to.

Just make sure she is eating good food. 

 

[cleopatras mom]

Thanks for the advice! I just moistened her dry fooda nd poured the capsule over it. The outer ring of the capsule is plastic(I think), so the vet said break it apart and let the powder fall onto her food. She ate most of it, so I feel happy! While I transition her to wet food, I may just occasionally add water to her dry food. She seems to enjoy it!

 

[artiemom]

Great! Yes, the capsule is water soluble. It dissolves when it gets in contact with water. You can just hold in with 2 hands and pull it apart. 

 

[cleopatras mom]

Update on Cleo: After transitioning her onto Wellness Core, and giving her 1/2 a Prednisolone tablet in the morning, and 1/4 at night, I have seen a small improvement. I think I am disapointed, not because I thought it would be easy, but because I am so scared it is NOT IBD.

She went to the bathroom this morning, and as I inspected it, I STILL saw blood. But, it was dry. It was a dry casing around her stool. Could this just be some blood residue from in her intestines, and not blood that is still actively being produced? I know with a food transition it will take a while for her tract to calm down, but I thought with Prednisolone that it would be noticeable immediately. So, I come here for some advice. My card has discontinued because a new card is being sent, so I cannot order Alnutrin or Ezcomplete until then. I have not even weighed her yet, because the scale broke. So I have to go into town to get it.

At this point, what do you all think I should do? I really hope someone will answer and provide their own opinion. Should I immediately transfer her to cooked(chicken or turkey. But I think she is allergic to chicken, maybe both)? Or should I wait one more week before making a decision, as I watch her weight progress? Is Pred really working and she is just getting all that gunk out of her system?

I DID notice that she no longer is constipated and she can hold her bowel movements for a long time, unlike a month or so ago. But that is all I have really noticed. Blood is still there....but it seemed dry, so I hope it is just flushing out of her system. Any thoughts/ideas? Should I wait if the grocery store has only chicken/turkey? I will check Hannaford and see if they have lamb/bison? Does bison go down well for cats? Or lamb? I have no idea...

 

[abby2932]

I don't know about the blood but I did want to chime in with some friendly advice from personal experience to answer a couple of your questions:

- I would wait a little while to change her diet again. Just so you're not changing too many things at one time. Let the new diet run its course then once you get your new card to order the Alnutrin or EZ complete, then get things ready to transition to homemade raw/cooked.

-I have one cat that eats any tye of raw protein with no issue (poultry, beef, lamb, pork, etc) but I also have one cat who is allergic to all poultry and intolerant to all red meat. He will basically throw up beef and lamb within 2 minutes of eating it. I now only feed him rabbit, pork and goat. I would probably try Pork with Cleo first since you suspect a poultry allergy

 

[cleopatras mom]

Thanks for the info!

I actually have no idea if she is allergic to poultry. I say she is, because the only thing she has ever been on, really, is chicken or turkey. So, if she WAS allergic to a protein, it would be that. But, ultimately, maybe she is just allergic to soy, grains, wheat,ect.

I will wait for a diet change, then, and see if everything is fine. She has been on the new diet for about two weeks, and  has been on probiotics and a higher dose of Prednisolone for three days.

I also have to add that a few days ago Cleo was grooming herself and she was shedding. She started sneezing, and a few of the hairs found their way to me and I sneezed several times too. Since then, every time she grooms herself, she sneezes. Is this something to be concerned about? She only sneezes when she grooms herself.

 

[lisahe]

I don't know about the blood but I did want to chime in with some friendly advice from personal experience to answer a couple of your questions:

- I would wait a little while to change her diet again. Just so you're not changing too many things at one time. Let the new diet run its course then once you get your new card to order the Alnutrin or EZ complete, then get things ready to transition to homemade raw/cooked.

I think this is very good advice. I'd also probably give the new food another week or two -- there's been some improvement, after all, and these problems aren't always quick to resolve themselves -- and then start very slowly on whatever homemade you want to feed, be it raw or cooked.

Another factor is stress and lots of cats with gastric issues seem to get stressed out easily. (We were chatting about this earlier today on the Facebook IBD/raw feeding group.) Some cats get very stressed when their food is changed, particularly if they liked the food.

 
I DID notice that she no longer is constipated and she can hold her bowel movements for a long time, unlike a month or so ago. But that is all I have really noticed. Blood is still there....but it seemed dry, so I hope it is just flushing out of her system. Any thoughts/ideas? Should I wait if the grocery store has only chicken/turkey? I will check Hannaford and see if they have lamb/bison? Does bison go down well for cats? Or lamb? I have no idea...

I don't think our Hannaford has turkey without additives like rosemary or salt but the selections can vary quite a bit. There are many types of pork without additives and many kinds of lamb and beef, too. I was most interested in pork when I was looking so focused on that. And don't know if our store sells bison!

 

[cleopatras mom]

Oh! We always seem to post within a few minutes of each other!

Alright, I definitely will wait at least a week, then. And I think our Hannaford up here sells bison very occasionally. And Cleo IS a stressed out cat. Well, she always has. She was feral as a kitten. But she only really shows her stress towards the dogs by scratching them, or occasionally, launching off her seat to scratch them. Several weeks ago, to make her happier, I bought her a cat tree, and that rascal only used it for a week!!!

 

[cleopatras mom]

Another Update: She pooped again, which is unlike her. She normally poops every day and a half. Well, one segment had blood encased around it, and another had a streak of blood. So, even with Prednisolone, it might not ease the whole blood issue? I think, in a way, I just want to know if I should add Leukerin or not. I am afraid to wait so long, but I know it is a must.