cat outside too much?

[glurf]

Hi, I could use some advice. Our 8-year-old tabby still has her claws and has been an indoor-outdoor cat most of her life. This has never been a problem. Usually she goes out during the day and comes home at night, around dinner time. In the winter she stays in (by choice) more often.

But this summer, she has developed some bad habits. She yowls to go out all night, so my husband and I can't sleep. She doesn't come home at her usual time or when called (as she always has). She would always kill the occasional mouse but now she's killing more frequently and presenting us with the kills: there was a dead mouse on our front porch and the other week she got a baby bluebird, which upset my husband and I to no end. Finally, last night she pooped outside her litterbox, which she never does.

I am worried that maybe she is spending too much time outside and it is making her act wild and forget her training. I'm considering "grounding" her and keeping her inside until she re-learns how to behave--is this a good idea? Has anyone else ever experienced this with their cats? Could it be something else? Thanks!

 

[txcatmom]

I don't have experience with indoor/ outdoor cats but one thing came to mind when I read your post.  Is she dewormed regularly?  If she is eating more prey from outdoors, then parasites could be an issue and could cause litterbox problems.  A vet visit to check her health and rule out parasites would be a good idea. 

 

[yayi]

My cats are indoor-outdoor. The increase in "gifts" could mean that there is more prey to hunt. I have been presented with baby birds but they most likely fell from the nest. There are too many interesting things on the ground preferable for my cats instead of climbing high up a tree and get pecked by angry bird parents. 

 Hunting is a natural cat instinct so you can't control what your cat will present as a trophy. 

As for pooping outside the box, I suggest you get your cat checked by the vet. It is often a sign that there are some health issues rather than behavior. 

 

[emilymaywilcha]

I am a strong believer that domestic cats don't need to go outside for any reason and there is no benefit that outweighs the million dangers out there. If you have a former feral I could understand, but otherwise, it makes absolutely no sense. So far nobody has ever given me a reason cats need to be or should be outside for any amount of time because all they ever say is, "The cat wants to go outside," or "The cat likes it out there." Some people say it is inhumane to keep them inside 24/7, but they don't explain why. So forgive me if I offend you while giving out advice - I am just concerned about cats being in dangerous places, which means everywhere that does not have walls, a floor, and a roof.

That said, I have one piece of advice: Grounding your kitty is a purrfect idea, but you should also train the cat to stay away from the exterior doors so it will not want to go outside anymore. Buy interactive toys like Da Bird (a winner for all string lovers) and a food game toy (cat moves pieces to get food) to provide distractions. Spray something cats hate on doors to keep your kitty away from them. Because your cat eats like a feral, buy raw food and go to the Raw Food Forum to learn how to prepare it. Just not letting your cat outside only causes constant meowing that drives you crazy to get worse. If you want to make a cat stop meowing at the door, you need to make that door less appealing and provide distractions.

 

[catsallaround]

The only cats I let out are the ones I got from outside to start with.  If I tried to keep them in they would cry and then go to attacking the other cats and dog.  The increased vet bills and chance of issues are there but at the same time for my other cats safety is also a concern.

I agree more stuff to hunt.  I just picked up a mouse head in my yard.

Last night was she forced to stay in against her will?  Think keeping her in may have the other result of making her more desperate to get out.  I also think a vet visit is in order since going outside the box is not only behavior it could be medical.  Next time it happens bring in the sample and make appointment on the spot for a check up.

Have you been gone more or change in schedule?  Any chance someone else has been taking her in/feeding her a food that don't agree with her?

 

[rubberboots]

I personally would never keep a cat indoors permanantly. Cats are hunters and yes you can mimic the act with toys to keep them satisfied. I think that because he's been let outside for quite a long time trying to keep him in would make matters worse. He would know what he's missing outside.The whole time I was growing up we had cats and not one of them was an indoor cat. We lived in places where there were predators and we had this one particular cat that lived 18 years. We never lost one to a predator. So I do understand why people keep their cats indoors and I'm not going to lecture them on how I think they should take care of their cats. Ultimately the choice is yours. I just believe cats experience a more interesting life when let outside. I also know some people that say (a friend of mine) well if the cat is never let outside then how is it going to be aware that going outside is better? Then I say well you can take any living thing born in captivity keep it in captivity and do the same thing, that doesn't make it right.We have a cat door with the directional locks so you can have it open both ways or just one way. We had problems with our male cat not coming when called before we installed the door. Now all we do is whenever we feel it's getting close to the time for our cats to come in we set the lock to in only. They come in and they are in not meowling to get back out they may scratch at the door for a minute or so but I think that they think it's not me that's keeping them in anymore it's the door. They don't see me locking or unlocking it so complaining is pointless. Anyway that's just my idea.
 

 

[rubberboots]

Oh by the way, we also don't unlock the door if we aren't going to be around for a long period of time.

 

[jennyr]

I agree that a vet visit is in order for a drastic change in behaviour. And worms are a definite possibility.

 

[emilymaywilcha]

Rubber, I know I can't make you change your mind about this so I will not try to, but I believe you can train a cat to stop scratching the pet door to be let out by giving it everything it needs to be happy inside and feeding it frankenprey so it will still get full mice to eat. The only way to know if distraction works is try it. Many stray cats have lost interest in going outside this way, so there is no reason to assume the cat's history makes a complete conversion impossible.

 

[yayi]

I am a strong believer that domestic cats don't need to go outside for any reason and there is no benefit that outweighs the million dangers out there. If you have a former feral I could understand, but otherwise, it makes absolutely no sense. So far nobody has ever given me a reason cats need to be or should be outside for any amount of time because all they ever say is, "The cat wants to go outside," or "The cat likes it out there." Some people say it is inhumane to keep them inside 24/7, but they don't explain why. So forgive me if I offend you while giving out advice - I am just concerned about cats being in dangerous places, which means everywhere that does not have walls, a floor, and a roof.

I am a strong believer of the opposite - cats have the right to go outside. It's just Mother Nature. Other benefits include (for me anyways) - no litter box issues, no damaged furniture, or window screens, or curtains, or walls, or doors, no need to flood the house with cat toys, a natural pest control at home, less fur to vacuum, a quiet home with no yowling or constant meowing, no overfed cats due to boredom. My cats are spayed and neutered to remove their desire to roam, but they have been trained to come when called. They have learned to keep away from the pool and garbage.

I have a cat flap but most of the doors leading out are open during the daytime. My cats can go in and out as they please. 

Don't get me wrong, I am not on a crusade to convert indoor cat owners. Like parents, we both want the best for our children - the furry kind. We just have different ways on how to do it. Cheers!

 

[emilymaywilcha]

I know you are not trying to convert me yayi. Anyone who does is wasting a lot of time. But I always wonder how some cats survive and stay healthy outdoors because many of them don't.

 

[cannegardner]

I am always torn on the subject of indoor/outdoor or partial or none, but let me share some personal experience. We took in a feral who was with us in our yard for about 6 years. He walked in the house one day so we let him stay but the transition took about a year. Now, he could give a flying crap about going outside. For him, it's way too stressful, and as long as he has windows to look out, he's content. No litter box problems at all. But here is the situation:

When you let a cat out, they do revert to their wild isntinctual behavior, some faster than others. They will kill and eat more prey, but they will also become more territorial. You have now allowed them to expand their territory, which means, they must defend their territory and this results in longer stretches outside to patrol and mark their boundaries, which are ever increasing the longer you let them out. They will want out more and more because they feel the need to defend what they have been allowed to claim. They will walk farther and farther and be exposed to more and more dangers in defense of their space, which now doesn't just include the house. They will eat more prey, which you will need to be constantly vigilant to combat the parasite load, not just fleas and ticks, but mange, ear mites, various worms, not to mention transmittable diseases from other cats they come in contact with. They will also run into more people: cars and such, and people who don't like cats. As a result of all the territorial stressors outside, some cats may become territorially insecure, which leads to urine marking in the house, and fecal marking -- pooping outside of the box when there is no apparent health reason. Cats mark with their claws, their urine (spraying and piddling), and their poop.

My cat was a submissive, territorially insecure feral who was TNR'd. He no longer wants to go ouside because we have established a secure territory within the confines of the house. He has many litterboxes he can mark in and many scratch posts to mark along with many windows he can look out. When we used to let him out, he was constantly infested with worms and other crap, which required constant treatment. After his time out, he would behave neurotic in the house, marking, scratching, etc. because he didn't understand what was his territory and what wasn't. He could smell other cats outisde and that made him more neutoritc thinking they were going to try to take over his space. We decided to keep him in to mitigate the stress. Stress causes health issues, we know that for people.

When a cat doesn't understand where its territory begins and ends, they become confused and this causes problems like the neurosis you are seeing. This goes for girl and boy cats alike, neutered or intact. They are territorial creatures and need to feel safe and understand where the boundaries are. That is part of enriching an indoor cats life, not just play time.

If you want to let your cat outside, then the best method for this is to enclose the yard or a small part of the yard with cat appropriate fencing or caging. This will allow them to establish an outdoor territorial space with clear boundaries that they can mark and defend. It will make them feel safe and also protect them from a myriad of dangers while eliminating the territorial insecurity and neurosis that comes along with that.

After being born outside and six years of trying to survive, my feral no longer has any interest in the great outdoors. He knows what it's like out there and much prefers the quiet of the house, the soft sleepy spots, being free from parasites and other animals/people, and knowing exactly where his territory is without the need to constantly be on guard. He has really blossomed from the scrawny worm infested neurotic cat he used to be.

Just food for thought, but this is my personal experience. I care for two other ferals and some day hope to find good homes for them as well, but honestly, I don't think the one is going to make it another winter. The great outdoors greatly shortens their lives. No cat is ever completely safe outdoors. I can attest to that every time I see someone smushed pet on the road.

Also, keep in mind that people poison rodents. They live for a while with the poison in their system. When a cat eats a poisoned rodent it catches, it ingests the poison too. We saw what can happen with Hawks eating poisoned rodents: their egg shells were too thin and all the babies died before hatching. So what does a poison load do to you cat? Also, an outdoor cat has to constantly be treated for parasites, which means we are constantly putting chemicals on them and in them. We call them medications, but in reality, parasite treatments are poison. That is a fact.

When you let a pet outdoors unsupervised, they are living on borrowed time. That's just fact, even if it tears us apart thinking they want to be free. What a cat really wants is to be safe, which includes established territory, a constant food sourse, and routine. Our love is just icing on the cat cake.

It took many years to transition my feral to an indoor cat. We had to let him out during that first year so he could understand the house was safer. I worried, lost a lot of sleep at night wondering when the day would come when he wouldn't come back home. One morning, he came home very late, had lost his collar, and was covered in what smelled like feces. Then we had the battle with tapeworms. He's been inside full time since February this year, and he's happier for it. Healthier too and mommy doesn't have to worry anymore.

 

[cannegardner]

Or worse yet, your indoor/outdoor cat could run into the Woodsman, a commenter over at Way of cats. Yes, there are people like this out there who will shoot, poison, and torture anything they don't like. http://www.wayofcats.com/blog/dear-pammy-dont-encourage-cats-to-be-cruel/19633

We try to ignore that these people exist, but sadly, they exist and they hate your outdoor cat.

 

[callista]

The way I see it is this--Cats used to be outdoor animals, but they've been domesticated. That changes who they are significantly. Just like humans can now have full, happy lives entirely indoors, so can cats. Cats probably have it even easier--to a cat, a small apartment is the size of a barn, and a house the size of a small town. Humans can go to gyms to exercise and play sports; cats can run up and down a hallway. Humans learn, work, and play indoors; so can cats. Since the outdoors isn't dangerous for humans, we have no trouble going out--but for a cat, it's really a gamble. When I was a child, my mom used to force me to let my cats outdoors even though I knew it wasn't good for them, and none of them lived past the age of five years. Disease, predators, cars, other humans... Letting a cat out, in most places, is like dropping a human into a stone-age wilderness and hoping he lives past thirty. Some places are safer than others--some so safe that you can reasonably consider an indoor-outdoor cat--but none of the places I've ever lived is like that. City, country, suburbs; all have their dangers.

Your cat isn't a wild animal; s/he doesn't have to go outdoors to be happy any more than a human does. Yes, you do have to fulfill the cat's needs indoors, but then, so do we humans. We need light, so we get big windows or artificial lighting; we need Vitamin D so we add it to our food; we need to travel, so we do it in cars; we need physical activity, so we buy workout videos and go play racquetball at the Y. That's domesticated life. Domestic human; domestic cat. Not a loss; just a different way to live.

 

[rubberboots]

This is as bad as discussing politics or religion therefore I am no longer going to post about weather or not cats should be kept indoors or not. It always turns into who's right and who's wrong. People get angry and take things too personally. I will still offer advise and discuss certain topics but this one is done for me. I apologize for posting in somebody elses topic.

 

[catspaw66]

Or worse yet, your indoor/outdoor cat could run into the Woodsman, a commenter over at Way of cats. Yes, there are people like this out there who will shoot, poison, and torture anything they don't like. http://www.wayofcats.com/blog/dear-pammy-dont-encourage-cats-to-be-cruel/19633

We try to ignore that these people exist, but sadly, they exist and they hate your outdoor cat.

Wow, this guy (the Woodsman) has a lot of hate for just about everything.  Unfortunately, in my area I run across a lot of people with the same attitude.  Yes, I keep a shotgun and a pistol.  So far, all they have killed is a bunch of targets and I hope to keep it that way.

My indoor cats still hunt and kill prey.  But it is daddy longlegs, moths, little tiny flies that I can barely see and very rarely a lizard.  Even the ones that have never been more outside than the screened-in back porch have the instinct.  They are also death on furry toy mice.

I choose to keep my cats indoors to keep them away from predators, parasites and and cars.  I believe I am doing the right thing.  If I am wrong, I will find out on Judgement Day.  

 

[cannegardner]

Thanks Callista for the domestication post.

When I was retraining my feral, he would wake me up in the middle of the night to go out, or rather, I perceived that he wanted to go out, but in reality, he was on a schedule. Feral cats (all cats really) sleep most of the day and then hunt when their prey is out and about, which happens to be at night and early morning. He didn't want to go out. What he wanted was to get fed and patrol his territory because his schedule demanded it. That's what he'd always done. So, in light of that, I had to make some modifications to "MY" lifestyle to accomodate his needs and make him happy. When he wakes me up in the middle of the night, I feed him. He wants to patrol and mark his territory, so I made sure he had mutiple clean litter boxes to mark in and scratch posts all over the house of various types so when he is patrolling -- like he would outside -- he can mark things along the way. He does his patrol, then he eats, then he goes back to sleep. I got used to the routine. I feed him, I get a drink, I go to the bathroom, I go back to bed.

Since I started this "new" schedule, which was similar to the one he was used to and wanted, he doesn't make a peep at the back door anymore. He doesn't scratch the furniture because he has appropriately and strategically placed things to scratch mark. He has more than one litter box, so he never misses and has appropriate strategic places to urine and poop mark. He just does it in a box now and doesn't seem to mind. He eats a low carb meat diet, small mice sized amounts every 3-4 hours starting at 4:30 PM. He's not fat, or bored, and he only poops one small poop maybe once a day. And it doesn't smell.

We also grow various grasses for him indoors so he can munch a lawn like he would outside. I think a lot of problems with cats happen because we don't really understand what they want and need. We want them to behave by human rules, but they are cats, not humans. Sure, I had to make some compromises to accomodate him, but to keep him safe and healthy, it was the least I could do. We all know that play stimulates the prey drive, but there are other things that need to be considered to make an indoor cat happy as in understanding their territorial behavior and how to allow them that without giving over our entire house to the cat.

It can be done. A wild feral can be brought inside for good and be happy. My licky lovey lap cat is proof. It took me four years to socialize him and one year to transition, but it can be done successfully. Ferals don't live much past five years. We've seen them come and go rather brutally in some cases. Indoor/outdoor cats live longer, but it's still a wish and prayer. It's not a matter of will something happen, it's a matter of when. I found that out the hard way when he came home mauled and **** upon. So now, I prefer not to take that chance since he has put his trust in me. I feel bad when the birds are chirping, but then he licks me and lies down in the sun on the window sill and I know I've done the right thing for him. I used to be an outdoor cat ok with it kind of person, until that long sleepless night. He could have died. I don't know what happened to him that night, but it frightened him, so it frightened me. End of story. I changed my mind.

 

[cannegardner]

This is as bad as discussing politics or religion therefore I am no longer going to post about weather or not cats should be kept indoors or not. It always turns into who's right and who's wrong. People get angry and take things too personally. I will still offer advise and discuss certain topics but this one is done for me. I apologize for posting in somebody elses topic.

Sorry to hear that Rubberboots.

Indoor or outdoor is a choice we make "for" our cats. So I think it's important for any responsible caretaker to hear both sides of the issue so they can understand the pros and the cons of such a decision. Like I said, I used to be all for outdoor cats, until that night something happened and changed my mind.

I still advocate outdoor time, but only in a safe, confined, and supervised outdoor space.

Invariably, it's the caretaker's choice -- not the cat's. And the caretaker has to be willing to live with their choice should nothing happen or should something terrible happen. When we adopt an animal into our lives, we make a promise to keep them safe and healthy. How we interpret that promise is an individual's freedom of choice. The cat really doesn't have one. It's our choice, and the cat has to live with it.

Some of us have the luxury of experience. We've seen both the good and the bad of outdoor cat life. Everyone has to weigh their own odds and everyone has the right to the facts before they do so.

 

[rubberboots]

Life is full of risks and choices, if we (all living things) don't take risks we aren't living we are merely surviving. If choices are taken away from us (all living things) we aren't free. It's called living in a bubble.
 

 

[mrblanche]

But a cat can't make an informed decision.  Letting them go outside is exposing them to risks they are not equipped to handle.