Cat Introductions

[stephmnichols]

Would love to hear how long it took people to introduce their cats to a point where they could at least tolerate each other, specifically both young adults! Bonus points if they hated each other first (what I am currently dealing with and trying not to lose hope).....

 

[abyeb]

It can take a couple of weeks for cats to get accustomed to each other. They are territorial by nature. These articles are very helpful:

How To Successfully Introduce Cats: The Ultimate Guide

How To Fix An Unsuccessful Cat Introduction

 

[Furballsmom]

Hi!
Maybe this will help as well, and hopefully some other members will come in for you;

You, Your Cat And Stress

 

[Elphaba09]

How did you introduce them?

 

[stephmnichols]

It can take a couple of weeks for cats to get accustomed to each other. They are territorial by nature.

It’s been just about three months now; I know it takes a while and this isn’t unheard of, I’m just hoping to hear something long-process success stories!

How did you introduce them?

It’s been a long 3 months lol. At the beginning they seemed to be doing really well, but as soon as I actually let them interact Maui sort of chased after Coffee and I think that has set the tone for their relationship
They get some supervised time together most days but it’s usually Coffee hissing and growling and sometimes escalates to a fight (no claws just loud protests)

I don’t know if I need to separate and reintroduce (would be a huge bummer if so but maybe the best course of action) and I also don’t know what “separate” would entail exactly - no visual for a while (how long?), but still scent? No scent at all somehow?

 

[Elphaba09]

You might want to re-introduce them. I would say that visible yet separate would be a good place to start. Have you tried switching their collars every couple of days so that the scent of each other becomes less bothersome? What about giving the treats when they are near each other but not fighting? Or feeding them at a distance from each other and slowly moving the dishes together. Have you tried calming spray? (I have a few different kinds because they seem to work differently on each cat. Side note: I have nine cats and foster.) How much vertical space do they have?

What are their personal histories? Strays? Rescues? Purchased? Given?

The worst interactions between our cats have been Astrid and Tara. Tara is our crazy cat. She is super sweet but she used to stalk and fight with Astrid all the time. One of the things I also did in addition to the above-mentioned tricks was when I would see Tara about to pounce on Astrid, I would click my fingers, say her name, and stand near her. When I would get her attention, I would start to pet her as a way to redirect her attention. She does not attack Astrid anymore--she has not in a few years--but she does sometimes get hyperfocused and starts to stalk her. Now, I can just click my fingers and point down (like a "come here" motion), and she redirects and comes to me.

Both Tara and Astrid had a rough start at life, but Tara's was likely much worse considering her condition when we got her and her friend Simon. (Simon and Tara are wonderful together.)

It is my guess that Tara's bully behavior stems from her being scared rather than her being mean. Astrid is every bit a victim cat who needed her confidence boosted. It could be something you may want to consider as the reasoning behind your cats' behavior.

We also have a younger cat named Freya who was feral long enough as a baby that it took a lot more time to get her to like any of the cats. She hissed a lot in the beginning, but she never really fought with any of the others. We are going on three years with her. Last year, she started to get along with Astrid. They would chase each other and play rough, but nothing that I would consider fighting. This past September, we acquired a 5-week-old, Silas. Freya loves Silas. She does not eat with the other cats, though.

Freya's behavior was easy to deal with but has taken the longest to remedy.

 

[Chizzy90]

I just adopted a 4 month old kitten yesterday. Katie is very sweet, timid but hissy towards my 1 year old boy, Maynard. We have her in the bedroom and Maynard in the rest of the home. Maynard is the sweetest cat and doesn’t have a mean bone in his body and has never even hissed. Katie on the other hand has been hissing a lot at the bedroom door - Maynard will not leave outside the bedroom door and keeps pawing underneath. He’s more curious/scared of Katie than anything.

I’ve read a lot about how it can take days or even weeks but how do you know when the right time is to introduce the cats face to face?? I’m already getting impatient as Katie keeps crying to get out of the bedroom and Maynard keeps crying to get in the bedroom!

 

[stephmnichols]

Elphaba09 thanks for the response! I’ll give you a bit of history on them:

We got Coffee last May (2017) at 6 months old from the shelter. She was shy and took a while to warm up to us, but is now perfectly fine. She is still a little skittish when new guests are over, but usually gets over it and will even make an appearance half the time, and she’s usually fine with a lot of guests she’s already met.

I started school in September, so I’m out of the house about 13 hours a day (I’m commuting) and that with boyfriend’s long 12 hour days too thought we would get her a friend. She’s always seemed so curious and happy of the cats outside, never aggressive, so we thought she’d take it okay (eventually; I do know these things take a while).

So in August of this year, we got Maui. Maui is around 3, also from the shelter. Maybe we should have gotten a kitten to make it easier, but I don’t know, I’m just a sucker for the older kitties who have had to spend more time there (she’d been there three months, been adopted and returned in that time too).
When we first brought Maui home, we set her up in the spare room. I know I made a mistake though, because I brought Maui down and put her in this smaller side room off the rest of the house on the first day, where there is a window to the dining room. They stared at each other through the window, the very first day. But there was no aggression it seemed. Maui was very comfortable, just lounging. Coffee was more curious than anything, no hissing or growling at all. So, after a few hours, stupidly, I opened the door. They sniffed each other for a bit and it seemed to be going well but then Maui chased Coffee, who got scared and ran, which in turn made Maui chase her harder, etc etc. I split them up as quickly as I could but I think it has set the tone for their whole relationship. After that I obviously started taking their relationship a lot slower, with the scent introductions and slow monitoring and stuff, but it’s just been a lot slower than I anticipated considering the beginning of their first day went so well (again, my bad I know). They don't have collars so I can't switch those, but what a great idea if they did!

It’s been three months now, and Coffee is still hissing at Maui (I think out of fear). As of now, during the day when no one is home, Coffee is in our room and Maui is in the rest of the house (I know this sounds backwards, but our bedroom is huge and Coffee spends most of her time up here anyways, and Maui was peeing on the floor out of protest when she was being put in the spare room all day).

So at night, they get some supervised time together, usually up in ours/Coffee’s room. There’s some hissing and growling coming from Coffee’s end, but if Maui keeps her distance she usually lets it go and they both eventually nap or play by themselves. Sometimes Maui gets too close and they’ll get in a fight but not ACTUAL fights, just mostly swatting without claws and some really loud howling. They’ve never drawn blood, and usually if it does escalate to swatting then it stops after a few seconds and they’re about a foot apart just staring at each other. This is when I usually clap to distract them so it doesn't build up, and one of them will walk away. I don’t know if I need to be letting them work this out, or breaking them up. I don’t know if I’m prolonging this by not letting them work out their little hierarchy or what..

It just seems weird because when the door is closed, they’re both on either side pawing underneath the door and meowing (not aggressively) it seems like they’re playing a game, but when I let them see each other Coffee hisses and runs either under the bed or up high on her perch. In the bedroom, we have two high surfaces, so they both can be high up if they want, but they usually battle for one. Maui is a little pushy, so if Coffee is somewhere she wants to be, the little brat will get really close to it (just out of paws reach) and start rubbing her face nearby. Rude, right?

Also, yesterday, Coffee was downstairs for once during their face to face interactions, and Maui charged at her and they got in a fight downstairs
I think Maui thinks downstairs is "hers" now, because she's on much better behaviour when she comes in to our room; it's like she knows that if she misbehaves she gets kicked out. She's very social and wants to be wherever we (people) are.

We play with them in each others' company, and I try to limit treat time to whenever they're together so they make those positive associations. Coffee especially LOVES being brushed, so if she's particularly annoyed, I bring out the brush and she calms right down. It did seem like they were making progress (admittedly, very slowly, but SOME) but I'm feeling pretty disheartened after last night's episode downstairs. I don't want Coffee to feel uncomfortable in her own home...

I'm considering getting a screen door for our bedroom, so that during the day I can have that up and they can start to have a visual on each other all day but no contact... Thoughts?

I would love to expand Coffee's territory (right now she has our room, bathroom, and walk in closet) but we have sort of a weird layout that I don't think I could put the screen up anywhere they wouldn't be able to knock it down. Our room is at the top of the stairs, with a landing in the middle and a sideways hallway with only half a wall on one side that looks down over the rest of the house. She loves sitting on this wall and observing. Ideally I'd like to somehow block off about halfway down that first set of stairs, because then Coffee could have the hallway, another room, and the balcony for looking out, but I don't know how to construct a barrier for that.

 

[stephmnichols]

This is the view from our doorway. If anyone knows how to construct a kitty barrier halfway down this front set of stairs I’m all ears!!

 

[stephmnichols]

Oh, I should also add that Coffee isn't confined to our bedroom ALL the time. Just when no one is home. In the morning if anyone is home she gets free run of the house until about 11 am, and then we switch them. Sometimes at night we put Maui to bed a little earlier too, and Coffee gets to come back out around 8 or 9. So they do trade off. At night Coffee is closed in our room, and Maui sleeps with our roommate on the opposite side of the house so no one is in the main house.

 

[Elphaba09]

Thank you for all the information! I think you need to re-introduce them over a longer period of time. A screen door would work great.

A younger and an older cat can get along. In fact, it is often helpful for the younger cat to have an older cat around, at least in my experience. Using our Silas as an example, he is just now 4-months and has been with us since September. All of our other cats range from 3 to 13 years old. He plays the most with 3-year-old Freya, 5-year-old Willow, and 6-year-old Astrid. He snuggles the most with 5-year-old Fennimore, 13 (almost 14!)-year-old Simon, and 12-year-old Evangeline. He sometimes plays with 6-year-old Estella. He does not really interact with Tara. She smells him sometimes, though. Recently, she stopped hissing when he gets within a few feet of her. When she does hiss, we do the whole click/name thing we did with her when she hissed at Astrid.

I might have missed it, but are they both fixed? I am guessing that they are because they are at a shelter, and no shelter I know adopts cats without them being fixed.

Is either declawed?

It sounds to me that they both have confidence issues.

Here is some information you may find helpful.




How To Introduce Your New Kitten To An Older Cat

I hope some of this helps! Hang in there!

I’ve read a lot about how it can take days or even weeks but how do you know when the right time is to introduce the cats face to face??

Yes, it can. With extra difficult cases, it can take longer. Usually, those cases involve cats who have been neglected, abused, or were on their own for a long time. Follow your cats' lead and try not to rush anything. I know it can be difficult (I have nine and foster, in case you did not see that in my earlier posts), but it will be well worth it in the end.

Perhaps the links I posted can help. Good luck!

 

[KarenKat]

7 months. Before I was not constantly watching for shenanigans.

We introduced Olive (3 yr) to Gohan (7 yr) and Trin (10 yr). Similar situation where Gohan constantly chased Olive if she left the safe room. It was a few months before the chasing started to taper off, and a few months after that where Olive stopped hissing or growling defensively when he got closed. We had a few accidental scratches but no real fights. It was the constant chasing that was an issue.

It’s now been about a year since we started, Olive started to learn if she sits in place instead of runs there is no chase. A lot of mistrust still, but we can inhabit the same rooms, and leave them alone for a weekend without fear. We never tried reintroductions, mainly because Gohan takes so long to come to a decision about something that I don’t think it would have helped.

 

[Furballsmom]

Chizzy90 , a quick note since I don't want to hijack this thread, but if you look at the two articles in post #2 above by abyeb , and then let them see each other, maybe through a baby gate to better determine if they're ready.

At some point, even if you're not sure, you'll have to let them together and supervise to see how things go. You could start your own thread discussion and get feedback if you have more questions or want more input, or -->want to give us pictures

 

[stephmnichols]

I might have missed it, but are they both fixed? I am guessing that they are because they are at a shelter, and no shelter I know adopts cats without them being fixed.

Is either declawed?

It sounds to me that they both have confidence issues.

Yes, they are both fixed and neither declawed. I do think they both have confidence issues; even though Maui seems well adjusted most of the time, she does have some other problems. She has some inappropriate urination issues, ranging from either once a day or once every other day. When we first got her, she was set up in the spare room, and during the day she would be in there while Coffee had run of the house. She was using the floor as her litter box religiously (she usually pees three or four times a day), even though she would poop in the box. Now that she is out during a lot of the day and she sleeps with our roommate, I'm finding that she does it LESS, but still sometimes - more like once every other day (which is a huge upgrade from 4 pees a day, I guess).

The vet prescribed gabapentin for stress, for Maui daily and Coffee a smaller dose "as needed," like before one of their meetings. At at first I thought it was helping with the urination, but I'm not so sure anymore. At first it seemed like her issues were becoming even less frequent, but then I realized she has peed on the landing (the only carpet in the house, of course) a couple times, and I'm not sure how many times she has done this while I've been out and it has dried... So I'm not sure if it's actually helping, or if just sleeping with our roommate and being allowed out is. I think administering it to her is stressful for her, so I don't know whether or not I should continue with it. It definitely makes their meetings a little more low-key, though.

I'm hoping that getting them used to each other, and largely taking away that stress of hating each other, will help with the peeing. I just am worried that the longer this takes the more she will get used to "going" wherever she wants, and its will be a harder habit to break...

 

[stephmnichols]

Does anyone here have any experience with Rescue Remedy? For calming or for building confidence?

 

[stephmnichols]

7 months. Before I was not constantly watching for shenanigans.

Hmm, okay, that gives me hope. And how did you do it once they were allowed to be together? Short amounts of supervised time being split up afterwords? That’s where mine are now... about an hour supervised each night, but they really don’t get that much time together and I don’t know if I’m giving them enough.
Did you move to them being able to interact alone so long as someone was home and around, and if so how long did that take?
Much like yours, I find that Maui chases Coffee, then Coffee gets defensive, and then they fight... no blood, but it definitely isn’t a play fight either. I’m wondering if I should try to ignore these spats and let them work things out, or wait until their supervised hours are going smoother. It feels like I’m kinda stunting their progress by not allowing it but I also don’t want to do more damage to their relationship.

 

[KarenKat]

Every situation is different … We started out with about a week of Olive coming into the basement at night from outside, and then scent swapping by Gohan and Trin coming in during the day and smelling where she was. Then it was a week of her in the basement 24-7 before we officially introduced (I did rush it a little bit, I didn't know it was a marathon, lol!).

We went to a baby gate after that, and Olive started jumping over it not too long after. We had a few nighttime "emergencies" where Olive would scream like a panther and we woke from a dead sleep. There was a scratch or two and a torn nail from her, so for about a month or two we closed the door when unsupervised (at night and at work).

At this point it's all a bit muddled. When we were home, BF would play with the boys upstairs and I would play with Olive. When we were done, we would split a pouch of Applaws Chicken and Asparagus (the only magical treat loved by all three!) between them. They could eat within a foot of each other without issue at these times, and would calmly walk away when finished. Any other interaction was a chase, but these group feedings were an odd armistice.

Over time, Gohan gradually chased less and less. We started opening the basement door without being right there all the time. We started leaving the door open on weekends during shopping trips or movies. We just guessed our best when to let them go at it … Gohan almost never attacked, he would corner Olive and hover over her with one paw raised ready to strike. Then he would slowly - like 1/100th speed slow - back away. So we felt comfortable letting that play out after a while. It wasn't easy - we almost never knew the correct action (let it play out? separate them?). My BF became extremely tired of me always asking what next.

In the end, do your best and it works out. The worst that happened was Olive getting tackled early on and scratched. It later abscessed and required a little at home care. Not fun, obviously, but not permanent. It was very very slow, but it slowly got better and eventually we were amazed at how stressed we used to be.

At three months, we were very stressed and upset at our lack of progress. Try not to evaluate every little interaction as "progress" or a "setback" - take a step back and try and see it more as a graph that has peaks and valleys but is still moving mostly in right direction. Take some breaks, go "cat-free" for a few hours to decompress. Even if it feels like no progress is being made, your kitties are acclimating to each other and getting accustomed to each others presence. We may not see evidence of this, but it is happening.

Hope my inane rambling was somewhat useful, 7 months of cat intros kind of drive anyone a little batty.

 

[KarenKat]

This was a little into month 3 … the peace was temporary lol.

 

[jen]

I just adopted a 4 month old kitten yesterday. Katie is very sweet, timid but hissy towards my 1 year old boy, Maynard. We have her in the bedroom and Maynard in the rest of the home. Maynard is the sweetest cat and doesn’t have a mean bone in his body and has never even hissed. Katie on the other hand has been hissing a lot at the bedroom door - Maynard will not leave outside the bedroom door and keeps pawing underneath. He’s more curious/scared of Katie than anything.

I’ve read a lot about how it can take days or even weeks but how do you know when the right time is to introduce the cats face to face?? I’m already getting impatient as Katie keeps crying to get out of the bedroom and Maynard keeps crying to get in the bedroom!

Open the door!!

I don't think anyone responded to this person's question unless I missed it, I didn't read everything here. I think now is the right time for your guys. They are each aware of the other and the hissing Katie is doing doesn't seem to be bothering Maynard. So go for it!! Hissing, growling even louder noises are all PERFECTLY NORMAL communication. This goes for the OP too. Let it happen. Let them talk. Let one hiss and tell the other to back off and if the other one does great! Even if the non-hisser doesn't listen at first, they will eventually. Or maybe the hisser swats next, that should get the point across.

The point is relax and let them mingle. Supervise them. Ignore hissing and growling. I like to have a laser pointer ready for distraction and for encouraging them to play together. If one gets really upset with the other separate them again. Do it!

 

[Chizzy90]

Open the door!!

I don't think anyone responded to this person's question unless I missed it, I didn't read everything here. I think now is the right time for your guys. They are each aware of the other and the hissing Katie is doing doesn't seem to be bothering Maynard. So go for it!! Hissing, growling even louder noises are all PERFECTLY NORMAL communication. This goes for the OP too. Let it happen. Let them talk. Let one hiss and tell the other to back off and if the other one does great! Even if the non-hisser doesn't listen at first, they will eventually. Or maybe the hisser swats next, that should get the point across.

The point is relax and let them mingle. Supervise them. Ignore hissing and growling. I like to have a laser pointer ready for distraction and for encouraging them to play together. If one gets really upset with the other separate them again. Do it!

Thanks! I did end up opening the door a couple days ago and they are getting along well! Maynard is still unsure of Katie and he wrestles with her a lot. She hisses every now and then if he plays too rough and I separate them if I find he's getting too dominating.