Cat Introduction .... Failure?

[RocketPuppy97]

https://thecatsite.com/media/vid_20190807_070745.422698/

https://thecatsite.com/media/vid_20190807_070148_1280x720.422697/


I took these videos this morning. For some reason I wasn't able to embed them here.
This is what the do one or two times a day. Some day they don't do it at all.

 

[RocketPuppy97]

https://thecatsite.com/media/vid_20190807_070745.422698/

https://thecatsite.com/media/vid_20190807_070148_1280x720.422697/


I took these videos this morning. For some reason I wasn't able to embed them here.
This is what the do one or two times a day. Some day they don't do it at all.

https://thecatsite.com/media/vid_20190807_070148_1280x720.422697/

 

[calicosrspecial]

For some reason I can't get the videos to work. Can you put them on YouTube as I know I can get those to work.

Sorry. Thanks. I would really like to see the videos. They should be helpful.

 

[RocketPuppy97]

Okay, now it should work.
They did that yesterday morning and a little bit in the evening.
We still feed them with the door open every morning. And for evening feeding session we play with both at the door and then we feed them with an open door again.

 

[calicosrspecial]

Works perfectly, thank you.

The first video - fantastic. The cat in the other room walks up to the one in the room with the camera. Great body language, no negativity, no flinching, etc. They are playing with the toy and then the cat in the room with the camera walks away. Body language looks great, they look perfect. Success!!

The second video - The cat in the camera room is reaching under THEN goes on its side which is a more vulnerable position. Looks like the cat wants to play. The cat in the other room starts to go after the paw of the other cat (of course the cat would since it is like a toy). BUT it doesn't seem mean or anything. Good body language but maybe a touch less good then the previous video.

I would like them to be playing with a toy rather than their paws since there can be mis-interpretation about paws but overall very good.

AND they looked away from each other.

Everything I see here is making highly confident we are going to have a successful introduction. I see nothing concerning.

Now, I know this is not the whole picture but I see two cats that are progressing really well and with a little more work we will get there.

Excellent work!!

Keep working on building confidence and making every encounter as positive as possible trying to limit any negative encounter. Watch their body language for any signs. Distract them if a negative encounter might start happening. If you can get a cat to look away from the other cat that tells us there is trust between them.

Please ask anything anytime and for any clarifications. You are doing a great job and I see a great future for these cats. Really great job!!

 

[RocketPuppy97]

Works perfectly, thank you.

The first video - fantastic. The cat in the other room walks up to the one in the room with the camera. Great body language, no negativity, no flinching, etc. They are playing with the toy and then the cat in the room with the camera walks away. Body language looks great, they look perfect. Success!!

The second video - The cat in the camera room is reaching under THEN goes on its side which is a more vulnerable position. Looks like the cat wants to play. The cat in the other room starts to go after the paw of the other cat (of course the cat would since it is like a toy). BUT it doesn't seem mean or anything. Good body language but maybe a touch less good then the previous video.

I would like them to be playing with a toy rather than their paws since there can be mis-interpretation about paws but overall very good.

AND they looked away from each other.

Everything I see here is making highly confident we are going to have a successful introduction. I see nothing concerning.

Now, I know this is not the whole picture but I see two cats that are progressing really well and with a little more work we will get there.

Excellent work!!

Keep working on building confidence and making every encounter as positive as possible trying to limit any negative encounter. Watch their body language for any signs. Distract them if a negative encounter might start happening. If you can get a cat to look away from the other cat that tells us there is trust between them.

Please ask anything anytime and for any clarifications. You are doing a great job and I see a great future for these cats. Really great job!!

Wow, really? We were under the impression that they didn't like eachother and that the situation is tense while they are doing this. Well, that's a pleasant surprise.
Yesterday we did the whole play thing infront of the gate, with the gate being cracked open a little. Monty was very invested in playing and couldn't care less, Cosmo was very interested, but I was able to focus his attention back on the toy. We did this for 12 Minutes, then they were tired. After eating with the door open, Monty wasn't interested in Cosmo's food at all, he just walked away.
Our next big step, after building more confidence in both cat, would be having them in the same room, entertaint with treats. I'm a bit nervous about that, because I don't want Monty to go after Cosmo again or playing the big boss. Things seem to work well and I don't want to ruin it.
The next question is.... when do I know that Monty won't go after Cosmo if we no longer feed them treats constantly?

 

[calicosrspecial]

Absolutely. I am highly confident we will get these cats to accept each other. I have basically no concern about it working out.

I actually think they are doing great. Intros can take a month up to over a year. I would say your cats are well ahead of normal progress.

Your play session is exactly what we are looking for. Something positive with the other cat there, no negative encounter. Walking away. SUCCESS!!

Yes, the next step at the right time will be to have them in the same room, eating or having treats, getting love (if you can do it safely without being at risk of being hurt). Distracting them if it seems like it might get negative. If we can get them to look away from the other cat and not focus on them that is success. Acceptance.

Now, our emotions are extremely important when we do this because cats take on our emotions. Now, it is normal for the humans to be anxious, worried, etc. But the cats pick up on that and then can be more "on edge" or worried and then they can go negative quicker. But if we are calm and confident and act like all is well then they tend to relax and things go better.

No, we don;t want Monty to go after Cosmo but if he does we want Cosmo to be confident so that is why continued confidence building is important. A confident cat is less likely to attack or be attacked. Also, using a toy or blocking their site with cardboard or a pillow that break up that focus. And we start using small amounts of time together (trying to have no negative encounter) then build on the time. SO if they are together for 30 seconds then Monty starts getting "funny" we break Monty's focus and then end the session in a positive way.

Keep doing scent swapping to make positive associations and you can also do some site swapping. Make it positive for both (food, play, etc) when they have the other cat's scent around.

Again, we try to make a positive association AND make it so there is no negative encounter with the scent (they smell the scent of the other cat but no chases because the other cat isn't there).

How do we know that Monty will not go after Cosmo without treats. Well, we never really know but we can tell by body language. With Monty I think that would be staring mostly but maybe getting more "tense" or lower to the ground. Growling, hissing, hair up, tail fat, etc would be other signs. But given the body language I see I don't think he would show that.

I think Monty probably would go after Cosmo to play mostly (some dominance as well) but if Cosmo is confident then Monty might think twice AND if Cosmo doesn't run then he will not be confused with prey (a rabbit, mouse etc) and Monty wouldn't get as wild.

We also would distract Monty with a toy or block the site with a big piece of cardboard or a pillow or calling his name. Things like that. So work on your distract methods during this period before the face to face intro.

I hope this helps. Please ask any questions. The question is "when" the cats will be together not "if" in my mind. I am highly confident we will have success. Don't worry, you are doing great!!

 

[RocketPuppy97]

Absolutely. I am highly confident we will get these cats to accept each other. I have basically no concern about it working out.

I actually think they are doing great. Intros can take a month up to over a year. I would say your cats are well ahead of normal progress.

Your play session is exactly what we are looking for. Something positive with the other cat there, no negative encounter. Walking away. SUCCESS!!

Yes, the next step at the right time will be to have them in the same room, eating or having treats, getting love (if you can do it safely without being at risk of being hurt). Distracting them if it seems like it might get negative. If we can get them to look away from the other cat and not focus on them that is success. Acceptance.

Now, our emotions are extremely important when we do this because cats take on our emotions. Now, it is normal for the humans to be anxious, worried, etc. But the cats pick up on that and then can be more "on edge" or worried and then they can go negative quicker. But if we are calm and confident and act like all is well then they tend to relax and things go better.

No, we don;t want Monty to go after Cosmo but if he does we want Cosmo to be confident so that is why continued confidence building is important. A confident cat is less likely to attack or be attacked. Also, using a toy or blocking their site with cardboard or a pillow that break up that focus. And we start using small amounts of time together (trying to have no negative encounter) then build on the time. SO if they are together for 30 seconds then Monty starts getting "funny" we break Monty's focus and then end the session in a positive way.

Keep doing scent swapping to make positive associations and you can also do some site swapping. Make it positive for both (food, play, etc) when they have the other cat's scent around.

Again, we try to make a positive association AND make it so there is no negative encounter with the scent (they smell the scent of the other cat but no chases because the other cat isn't there).

How do we know that Monty will not go after Cosmo without treats. Well, we never really know but we can tell by body language. With Monty I think that would be staring mostly but maybe getting more "tense" or lower to the ground. Growling, hissing, hair up, tail fat, etc would be other signs. But given the body language I see I don't think he would show that.

I think Monty probably would go after Cosmo to play mostly (some dominance as well) but if Cosmo is confident then Monty might think twice AND if Cosmo doesn't run then he will not be confused with prey (a rabbit, mouse etc) and Monty wouldn't get as wild.

We also would distract Monty with a toy or block the site with a big piece of cardboard or a pillow or calling his name. Things like that. So work on your distract methods during this period before the face to face intro.

I hope this helps. Please ask any questions. The question is "when" the cats will be together not "if" in my mind. I am highly confident we will have success. Don't worry, you are doing great!!

We do siteswapping everyday, so Cosmo can roam around the flat confident and know that all this is his home. Monty doesn't seem to mind being in the bedroom, I think it is because he loves sleeping with us at night.

Because Cosmo seems to be not the type for fights, what are other ways to boost his confidence beside playing infront of the door and treats? I started clicker training a while ago, but didnt' keep up with it because the whole eat, play love thing was more important. Would that help?

While feeding time tonight we had a bit of an odd situation, we played and fed them like always, with the door open, but Monty started eating so fast he would cough a bit, after he nearly finished his meal in record time he tried to dash for the next round, Cosmo's food. I think Monty's new favorite food is chicken with pumpkin It wasn't really negative, because cosmo didn't even flinch, but I thought his new obsession with this would be worth mentioning.

I'm really exited for the whole introduction now! And I can't imagine how great it will be when those two finally live in peace togther.
I'm so glad I found this site, because now I don't feel so alone with my problems anymore. Thank you all very much for your help

 

[calicosrspecial]

You are very welcome. Very happy to help.

How does Cosmo walk around in Monty's territory? Tail high? Tall? Does he avoid any areas? Makes sure you play with Cosmo in Monty's area and after play feed a few treats. And just give him love (if you can safely without being at risk of being hurt in any way) and get him relaxed in that territory. If you have something with Monty's scent on it have it near and see how he reacts.

How does Monty react when he goes back to "his" territory after Cosmo was exploring in it? Normal or does he avoid areas or walk lower or his tail down etc. Basically any change in the way he normal holds himself?

Clicker training can be very positive as it can make a positive association and distract typically. I think that is fine to start up again.

To me, Play, Food, Height and Love is most important along with maximizing positive encounters and minimizing/avoiding negative encounters. SO if Monty is going to do something like chase or bully stopping it before it happens is a very good thing to build confidence because Cosmo would see Monty didn't do anything bad. And staying calm and confident around them. The more Cosmo sees Monty and feels like nothing negative is going to happen then the more trust (and confidence) will be built. And the same for Monty. As long as Monty understands that Cosmo isn't going to hurt him and not take his food away or his water or litter box and not be a negative change in any way (taking love way etc) then Monty will accept. And what happens is the more positive the situation is the more positive it gets. Sure there are ups and downs but as long as we are not seeing any real fights or changes in behavior (hiding, avoiding areas, not eating, poor body language, etc) then it is positive. The key is always to watch how they react after a "dust-up". If they rebound quickly then it tells us that there is trust and everything will be ok (of course we always want to work on confidence after "dust-ups").

Interesting. Wow. Cosmo did really well. It might have been Monty showing some dominance in addition to loving the dinner but overall I would say that was a good reaction. Just make sure that Cosmo got his meal and that there wasn't any negative and it should be fine. That does happen and can be hard. I tend to have some treats available to distract the fast eater but it doesn't always work.

On a side note, I deal with ferals in the wild all the time. My #1 best thing is warm chicken thigh meat to use to build trust, to help them calm down in a trap, etc. Food really is a great tool to build confidence and trust.

You are doing great on the intro. I am highly confident that they will live in peace together. There will be ups and downs. I have chases in my house years after they got together. But the key is to watch how they act after, build confidence, and give them all the love you have. And just let them chose how they want to interact. So some sleep together and eat together etc while others tolerate each other. As long as they are happy that is really all that matters.

We will always be here for you but you are doing great. I really have no concerns. It really comes down to the knowledge base and the desire of the humans. You have both so I am highly confident!!

Keep up the great work!! Feel free to post anytime.

 

[RocketPuppy97]

How does Cosmo walk around in Monty's territory? Tail high? Tall? Does he avoid any areas? Makes sure you play with Cosmo in Monty's area and after play feed a few treats. And just give him love (if you can safely without being at risk of being hurt in any way) and get him relaxed in that territory. If you have something with Monty's scent on it have it near and see how he reacts.

How does Monty react when he goes back to "his" territory after Cosmo was exploring in it? Normal or does he avoid areas or walk lower or his tail down etc. Basically any change in the way he normal holds himself?

Cosmo basically owns this place, he walks around with his tail up high, making big steps and even sleeping on Monty's Cattree. He's very cuddley, he'll headbutt you everytime your head is remotley near his one. He's the ultimate purrmachine, as soon as you pick him up, he purrs like there is no towmorrow.

Monty just walks out like nothing ever happend, usually it's right before breakfast so he's got more important things on his mind

And I was really surprised too that Cosmo didn't react to Monty coming for his food.

We also found out that chickenbreast is the best thing in the world for them.

Maybe this weekend we will try having them in the same room with treats and everything if it stays this good.

 

[calicosrspecial]

Cosmo basically owns this place, he walks around with his tail up high, making big steps and even sleeping on Monty's Cattree. He's very cuddley, he'll headbutt you everytime your head is remotley near his one. He's the ultimate purrmachine, as soon as you pick him up, he purrs like there is no towmorrow.

Monty just walks out like nothing ever happend, usually it's right before breakfast so he's got more important things on his mind

And I was really surprised too that Cosmo didn't react to Monty coming for his food.

We also found out that chickenbreast is the best thing in the world for them.

Maybe this weekend we will try having them in the same room with treats and everything if it stays this good.

That is fantastic and is a great sign and will be very helpful. Getting a cat to purr in unfamiliar territory or with another cat around is a great positive and something I do in intros (BUT always be careful you don;t get hurt in any way and of course watch the the other cat's reaction - we want the other cat to have a positive experience either).

Cosmo does look confident in those videos which is very good.

That is GREAT that Monty doesn't seem to mind Cosmo is in his territory. That is exactly our goal in doing site swapping. We want the cat to think "I know that cat, that cat is cool".

It is really good that Cosmo didn't react negatively and again tells me he has some confidence (especially when it comes to food access/availability).

Yes, agreed!!

One thing, in my experience it is usually the resident cat/existing cat that has the most adjustment in intros. Because it is "their" territory being "invaded". So keep an eye on Monty and his body language, make sure he gets play and food and a lot of love.

You could try this weekend. I personally probably would continue with confidence building etc and if positive next week then try it next weekend. I tend to take it slower in order to try to maximize the probability of a positive encounter and minimize the probability of any negative encounter. The number 1 mistake I see is people rush things and some negativity develops. Even if you get a minute of positive it is great and then build on the next face to face intros for longer times. Use distraction when needed and end it if it seems to be getting a little negative.

Keep up the great work!! Really great job so far!!

 

[RocketPuppy97]

That was this mornings feeding session. The video cuts off where Cosmo's tries to go to Monty for a quick hello. Nothing bad happened, Monty was just a bit shocked that, that cat on the other side of the door would just walk over to him.
I separated them and showerd them in treats. Cosmo acts the same as always. Monty is a little hyperactive after that, but that's nothing new in the morning either.

I think I'll play with Monty to get this energy away

 

[RocketPuppy97]

That was this mornings feeding session. The video cuts off where Cosmo's tries to go to Monty for a quick hello. Nothing bad happened, Monty was just a bit shocked that, that cat on the other side of the door would just walk over to him.
I separated them and showerd them in treats. Cosmo acts the same as always. Monty is a little hyperactive after that, but that's nothing new in the morning either.

I think I'll play with Monty to get this energy away

After a quick play session for both of them.
More treat

 

[calicosrspecial]

That was this mornings feeding session. The video cuts off where Cosmo's tries to go to Monty for a quick hello. Nothing bad happened, Monty was just a bit shocked that, that cat on the other side of the door would just walk over to him.
I separated them and showerd them in treats. Cosmo acts the same as always. Monty is a little hyperactive after that, but that's nothing new in the morning either.

I think I'll play with Monty to get this energy away

AWESOME!!! Did you see how they would look at each other then be like "everything is fine, I am going back to eating". FANTASTIC!!! That is what we are looking for!! GREAT!!

I would move their bowls a touch closer each day. If you see them not eating then back them up. Then when they are done distract them so they don't have a negative encounter.

It is GREAT that Cosmo went to Monty after the video ends and nothing happened. Again, that is trust building. An encounter but nothing negative which is a positive.

If you would have asked me which cat was which I would have said it was Monty with the person with the camera and Cosmo was in the other room. Totally opposite of reality.

Monty looks a little less confident (understandably because it is "his territory" being "invaded". So keep working on building Monty's confidence. Cosmo sure does look confident. Seeing this video I am surprised Monty got on top of Cosmo but of course this is just one moment.

This video is REALLY FANTASTIC!!! Great work!!

 

[calicosrspecial]

After a quick play session for both of them.
More treat

Hahahaha, they are loving life!!!

Everything looks very positive.

I would feed them a little bit closer each day and monitor them. If you have the door open then distract if needed so a negative encounter might happen. You may want to keep the door closed when you get the feeding bowls get closer and see how they react before letting the door open.

All I see are positives. We just need to reinforce to them that the other cat is not a threat.

I would like to continue building Monty's confidence and watching his body language.

Given what you said about Monty being a little hyperactive after Cosmo went up to him in the earlier video I think we need to just keep feeding them closer each day and reinforce that positive encounter/positive association. The more Cosmo doesn't show aggression to Monty the more trust Monty will have with him.

Keep up the great work. All I see are positives really and you are very, very close. Let's just reinforce those positives and watch how they act when the food is closer and let's keep on eye on how Monty is acting.

But the fact Monty looks at Cosmo wondering if there is going to be a negative and nothing negative happens it is such a confidence and trust builder.

GREAT stuff!! I am really proud of your efforts. They are working!!

 

[Furballsmom]

to both of you!!

 

[RocketPuppy97]

Hahahaha, they are loving life!!!

Everything looks very positive.

I would feed them a little bit closer each day and monitor them. If you have the door open then distract if needed so a negative encounter might happen. You may want to keep the door closed when you get the feeding bowls get closer and see how they react before letting the door open.

All I see are positives. We just need to reinforce to them that the other cat is not a threat.

I would like to continue building Monty's confidence and watching his body language.

Given what you said about Monty being a little hyperactive after Cosmo went up to him in the earlier video I think we need to just keep feeding them closer each day and reinforce that positive encounter/positive association. The more Cosmo doesn't show aggression to Monty the more trust Monty will have with him.

Keep up the great work. All I see are positives really and you are very, very close. Let's just reinforce those positives and watch how they act when the food is closer and let's keep on eye on how Monty is acting.

But the fact Monty looks at Cosmo wondering if there is going to be a negative and nothing negative happens it is such a confidence and trust builder.

GREAT stuff!! I am really proud of your efforts. They are working!!

We did feed them with the door closed when we started the introduction process and got them to the poit where they could both eat directly at the door without any problems, that's why we moved on with feeding with an open door. To show both that, even without a door between them, nothing bad ever happens.

The more we talk about this, the more I see that Monty is the one who needs the confidence boost and not Cosmo, I thought it would be the total opposite, but that's good because Monty is a total freak with play, he would play 24/7 if he could and if we miss one day of playing with him, he'll let us know for sure

I'M excited to see what towmorrow brings, maybe we'll try feeding treats in the same room, maybe we'll close the door and move the bowls directly at the door again.

 

[calicosrspecial]

Absolutely. We always start with the door closed and move the food closer each door watching how they do. Then it is great to feed with the open door.

Sorry, I think I wasn't clear in my last post. I would like you to keep the door open during feeding but each feeding move the food just a little closer and see how they react. If they just pay attention to their own food and finish then it is success (positive association) and the next time move the bowls about 6 inches closer with the door still open. Monitor their eating and if one doesn't eat and starts moving toward the other cat's bowl then distract to keep it positive. If we can get them to eat a foot apart with no barrier in the near future and they walk away or look away after eating we have success.

Yes, I agree. Monty was good in the videos but I did see a little anxiousness (keeping an eye on Cosmo while eating) in video 3 and I think it was Monty pawing at Cosmo's paw in one of the first videos (I think it was Cosmo pawing under the door and Monty was doing well but did swat it a little aggressively (which could have been just play or if it was a little defensive it is understandable). Just very little things that show that Monty needs a little more confidence and time to realize Cosmo doesn't really mean harm.

So for tomorrow absolutely feed with an open door. Maybe move the food bowls 6 inches to a foot closer then where you had them in this recent video #3. Distract as needed if they don't eat or go to the other cat.

By the way, your cats are ABSOLUTELY ADORABLE!!

You are doing great. Just take baby steps and make small progress each day. They are going to be fine. I am not at all worried. We may have some ups and downs but they are going to be fine. You are doing great.

As Furballsmom says

 

[RocketPuppy97]

So today seemed like any other day. Feeding was good and our playtime went well.
It's 1 a.m. where I live so it's well past our normal bed time. So the cats started getting active again. A fee shenanigans at the door, nothing special.
Cosmo was complaining, out of boredom or because he wanted our attention. That's what he always does. Now I wanted to go to bed and noticed this smell. The smell of let's wreck the whole good experience of the day with a little pee.
He peed inside of our laundry bin, probably because he didn't get our attention, because that's what we know him for. Now we have to wash everything tomorrow, so Monty doesn't pee on them again. And we have to buy a new laundry bin as well because our is made out of

 

[RocketPuppy97]

So today seemed like any other day. Feeding was good and our playtime went well.
It's 1 a.m. where I live so it's well past our normal bed time. So the cats started getting active again. A fee shenanigans at the door, nothing special.
Cosmo was complaining, out of boredom or because he wanted our attention. That's what he always does. Now I wanted to go to bed and noticed this smell. The smell of let's wreck the whole good experience of the day with a little pee.
He peed inside of our laundry bin, probably because he didn't get our attention, because that's what we know him for. Now we have to wash everything tomorrow, so Monty doesn't pee on them again. And we have to buy a new laundry bin as well because our is made out of

Well I didn't mean to post that one unfinished.

Our laundry bin was made out of some key kind of fabric and now it's ruined.
I'm really frustrated, because we played a lot. And I always go in to check on him and give him cuddles and treats and everything. And now he pees on my stuff again.
We switch Monty and Cosmo every night so Monty can sleep with us in the bedroom, I moved the clothes out of the room, but non the less he was not really happy for the first 30 minutes, because of that. Slowly walking, low walking as if someone is creeping up at him. I felt sorry for him