Cat Food and soft stools/ diarrhea help?

[itty bitty kitt]

It's been a while since I've been active on this site! I hope I'm posting this in the right thread, so here goes,

I'm currently fostering a male, stray cat who we suspect has been abandoned. His name is Milo.


Long story short, I plan on adopting him but I have to wait. We don't know when but we predict within the year. My questions are below but here is some background first:

He's been fixed and fully vaccinated, so he's perfectly healthy with no worms or FIV. I keep him indoors for the most part but allow him to get fresh air outside with supervision. He's in great shape, weighing at 9lbs and his ribs and spine can easily be felt. He's incredibly long and between 1 - 1/12 years of age.

We had him with us for a week now. Currently I've been feeding him a mix of Fresh Pet Vital, Nutrience Holistic canned food and Natural Balance canned food. However my mom insists on giving him some Blue Buffalo kibble. Currently, his absolute favorite is Fresh Pet and has been his main food. Every now and then I mix some canned food in but some flavors have been a completed turn off to him.

He gobbles up Fresh Pet all the time and has been selective with the canned food. I've been keeping track of his stools and they always seem to be soft like toothpaste. He has about 1-2 bowl movements a day and drinks plenty of water. However his stool has been like this since we took him in. I asked the vet about this but they ensured me, that since he does not have worms, that this is a result of me giving him new food.

However, once he asked what I fed he immediately said I should not feed him moist food and I should feed him Royal Canin prescription kibble to prevent UTIs for him since males are more prone....correct me if I'm wrong but, shouldn't that be the opposite? Isn't moist food a lot healthier for your cats and its kibble that dehydrates your pet a lot more? I was tempted to confess I was planning on introducing him to a raw diet In the future but something tells me that wouldn't have gone well lol.

My mother says that she thinks Fresh Pet has too many vegetables in it since he's and "outside" cat, his stomach can't take it. Is it because of the peas? So she wants me to find more kibble for him instead like Iams. She is also under the impression kibble cleans teeth. Personally, I'm not a fan of kibble for cats, I prefer wet food, and I'm certainly no fan of Iams. My mom is in search of a kibble brand that contains NO vegetables. Does anyone know of such exists? The closest thing I found was Taste The Wild and Natural Balance, but they still contain some. I think the only " all meat" food I can offer is literally meat. However I did get confirmation that Milo should be having about 200 - 230 calories a day.


What Milo was fed BEFORE I began fostering him
Everything. My mom would leave food out for the strays so they'd all
take turns eating. She fed them a combination of:

Presidents Choice Finicky Eaters
Meow Mix
Some meat scraps
Buffalo Blue kibble
Science Diet Ideal kibble
Fancy Feast
Purina kibble

I'm u sure of the specifics of what they were, but that the basic list
of what mom fed them.

What I have been feeding Milo
For the first few days I've been trying a variety of food since I was
trying to figure out what he liked and what he would eat. So I had to
mix some of the old food he was used to in order to introduce him to
the stuff I was getting him

Fresh Pet Vital
Natural Balance
Nutrience Holistic
Buffalo Blue Indoor cat * plan on removing or replacing, but my mom
wants to keep giving it to him*


I feed him 3 meals a day at 8 am, then 12 pm and then at 8 pm. I may
switch to 2 meals a day.


Here is a track record of what he's been fed since March 2nd. On and
off my mom still gives him kibble, with or without my consent. I've
asked her to at least give no more than 1/4 cup for the day and I've
requested it not to be given until after lunch or dinner.

************************************************** ********

March 2nd
Fresh Pet opened - served 2 Tsp worth ( mixed, half meal, lunch),
Natural Balance 6 oz open - served 3 Tsp worth ( mixed )
Fancy Feast 3 oz open - served 2 Tbs worth

March 3
Natural Balance - 3 Tbs, Fancy Feast - 1 Tbs ( breakfast)
Natural Balance - 2 1/2 Tbs (lunch)
FreshPet - 3 Tbs mixed w/ 1 Tbs Fancy Feast

March 4
FreshPet - 3 Tbs mixed w/ 1 Tbs Fancy Feast ( Breakfeast)
Nutrience - 1 1/3 Tbs( lunch)
Fancy Feast - 1/2 Tps (lunch)
Nutrience - 1 TBs? ( Dinner but he left most of it)

March 5
Nutrience - 3 Tbs mixed with 1 Tsp of Fancy feast ( Breakfeast ate about 1 Tsp)
Gave leftover of Breakfeast for lunch. 1 Tsp left over.
FreshPet - 2 1/2 Tbs mixed with 1 Tbs of Fancy Feast

March 6
FreshPet- 4 TBS w/ 1 TBS Nutrience( Breakfeast)
FreshPet -1 TBS w/ 1 TBs Nutrience ( Lunch)
Freahpet - 3 TBS w/ 1 TBS Nutrience( dinner)
* had 1 loose stool but one Solid over night*

March 7
FreshPet - 3 1/2 TBS w/ 1 TBS Nutrience ( Breakfeast)
FreshPet - 2 TBS ( lunch)
FreshPet - 4 TBS w/ 1 TBS Nutrience
* pooped twice today*
b
FreshPet - 4 TBS ( Breakfeast) * before vet visit*
FreshPet - 2 TBS ( lunch) * after vet visit*
FreshPet - 3 TBS w/ 1 TBS Nutrience

March 9
1/4 cup of kibble, 1 TPS of Fancy Feast - not very hungry
Not very hungry today
FreshPet open- 2 TBS
Failed mixes w/ rice, kibble and Natural Balance Turkey, hates
* Pooped twice in a row*

March 10
FreshPet - 2 TBS ( Breakfeast)
FreshPet - 2 TBS with shredded beef as sprinkles ( lunch)

***********************************************


So here are my questions:

1. Milo loves Fresh Pet. If he really likes it and it seems fairly
well balanced, do I really need to mix or add other food in it?
However I am unsure if this is the cause of his pastey stools. I am
feeding him JUST Fresh Pet now with no mixes for the next week to
determine if it really is the cause or not. In the past I'd mix a TBS
of the other food.

2. If Fresh Pet is causing the pastey stools, what should I do? I've
read adding plain white rice can help but he didn't want to touch it.

3. I noticed he hasn't been as hungry since he came back from the vet
(March 8th) , so he's eating a little less, is this normal? It's only
been 2 days.

3. Was I going too fast? Maybe I was introducing him to new food too
quickly? Should I switch him to 2 meals a day?


Any advise or feedback welcome!


************************************************** ******************




For those wondering, here are the ingredient lists for the food I've
been giving Milo.

Fresh Pet Vital:
Chicken, Chicken Liver, Ocean Whitefish, Natural Flavors, Eggs,
Carrots, Spinach, Pea Protein, Pea Fiber, Vinegar, Salt, Taurine.

Natural Balance Tuna and Shrimp (canned):
Tuna, Whitefish, Fish Broth, Chicken Liver, Chicken, Ground Brown
Rice, Shrimp, Carrots, Eggs, Guar Gum, Taurine, Dicalcium Phosphate,
Carrageenan, Dried Cranberries, Potassium Chloride, Zinc Sulfate,
Ferrous Sulfate, Vitamin E Supplement, Copper Sulfate, Manganese
Sulfate, Niacin Supplement, Sodium Selenite, Thiamine Mononitrate,
Calcium Pantothenate, Calcium Iodate, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride
(Vitamin B6), Riboflavin, Vitamin A Supplement, Folic Acid, Biotin,
Vitamin D3 Supplement, Vitamin B12 Supplement.

Nutrience Holistic Beef Stew (canned) * note, this is a Canadian only
brand, I cannot get a hold of this by the time I can adopt him*
Beef, cooking broth, tapioca, rice, salt, sodium tripoli phosphate,
vitamins and minerals and carrageenan.

Buffalo Blue Indoor Cat
Deboned Chicken, Chicken Meal, Whole Ground Barley, Oatmeal, Whole
Ground Brown Rice, Fish Meal (natural source of Omega 3 Fatty Acids),
Chicken Fat (naturally preserved with Mixed Tocopherols), Dried
Cellulose, Natural Chicken Flavor, Whole Potatoes, Peas, Whole
Carrots, Whole Sweet Potatoes, Cranberries, Blueberries, Flaxseed
(natural source of Omega 3 and 6 Fatty Acids), Barley Grass, Dried
Parsley, Alfalfa Meal, Dried Kelp, Taurine, Yucca Schidigera Extract,
L-Carnitine, L-Lysine, Turmeric, Dried Chicory Root, Oil of Rosemary,
Beta Carotene, Vitamin A Supplement, Thiamine Mononitrate (Vitamin
B1), Riboflavin (Vitamin B2), Niacin (Vitamin B3), d-Calcium
Pantothenate (Vitamin B5), Pyridoxine Hydrochloride (Vitamin B6),
Biotin (Vitamin B7), Folic Acid (Vitamin B9), Vitamin B12 Supplement,
Calcium Ascorbate (source of Vitamin C), Vitamin D3 Supplement,
Vitamin E Supplement, Iron Amino Acid Chelate, Zinc Amino Acid
Chelate, Manganese Amino Acid Chelate, Copper Amino Acid Chelate,
Choline Chloride, Sodium Selenite, Calcium Iodate, Salt, Caramel,
Potassium Chloride, Calcium Carbonate, Saccharomyces cerevisiae,
Lactobacillus acidophilus, Bacillus subtilis, Enterococcus faecium.

 

[catspaw66]

OK, if I read correctly you want the three questions answered.

1.  If you mix all the different foods that you are feeding, it is hard to tell which one is giving him problems.  You are correct in sticking with only one kind for a few days.

2.  If the Fresh Pet is the problem, switch to ONE of the others, and observe the reaction.

3.  Measuring with a spoon is not very accurate.  To be precise you need a scale, one that will weigh in grams.

4.  Yes, I think you were going too quickly.  Stick with one type for a while.

This is not a slam or put-down, but,  Your post has too much information in it.  We didn't really need the ingredients for the foods you feed.  A wordy post is more likely to be skipped over. 

I hope I answered the main questions you needed. 

 

[goholistic]

Okay, I've skimmed your post. A wet diet is best, and many on this site feed raw. I agree that a diet as true to their ancestral diet as possible does not include grains, fruits or vegetables. However, any grain-free kibble that I've come across needs a carbohydrate or "binder," which is usually in the form of potatoes, peas, tapioca, etc. My only concern about feeding the Fresh Pet exclusively is that I do not see any added vitamin and minerals added to the ingredient list you provided above. How do we know your cat is getting all the nutrients he needs from the ingredients in Fresh Pet? A good multi-strain probiotic could help balance out his intestinal tract and firm up his stools. Consult with your vet.

Everyone will have a different opinion on a particular food. For wet foods, you could try one of the 95% varieties from Before Grain or EVO as they are typically "meatier" (my cats love EVO). Stella and Chewy's has freeze-dried raw that you just add water to...kinda nifty.    You talked a lot about kibble, but didn't actually ask a question about it. I'll just say that if you're going to go with Blue Buffalo kibble, then you might as well go with their grain-free version (Blue Freedom), although I'm not crazy about some of the extra "stuff" in there. I have recently come across California Natural Grain-Free Chicken Formula, which has a simple ingredient list, but people don't like that Natura was bought out by P&G. Again, kibble is not ideal. You want wet, high protein, low carbs, no grain. Some people like to calculate the percentages.

You didn't say what your cat went to the vet for, so it's difficult for me to say whether or not it's normal that he's eating less. It could be stress.
 

 

[ritz]

What struck me is that some of the canned/wet foods you feed have a fair amount of fish in them.  Fish is bad for male cats, has to do with the high mineral content which can cause UTIs/blockages.  Was it your vet who said to feed Royal Canin prescription kibble, which I find kind of ironic, considering the amount of fish your cat is getting in his wet food.  I agree with you that you should ditch the dry food; as it is, your cat is getting way more carbs than he needs in the wet food (rice, oatmeal, potatoes, carrots, peas, etc.)

Regarding kibble keeping teeth clean:  cats don't chew kibble, they swallow it.  So, no chewing is involved.  Since you mentioned perhaps raw feeding, see if your cat will chew chicken gizzards--gizzards are really tough, and that will give his teeth a good workout!

 

[itty bitty kitt]

OK, if I read correctly you want the three questions answered.

1.  If you mix all the different foods that you are feeding, it is hard to tell which one is giving him problems.  You are correct in sticking with only one kind for a few days.

2.  If the Fresh Pet is the problem, switch to ONE of the others, and observe the reaction.

3.  Measuring with a spoon is not very accurate.  To be precise you need a scale, one that will weigh in grams.

4.  Yes, I think you were going too quickly.  Stick with one type for a while.

This is not a slam or put-down, but,  Your post has too much information in it.  We didn't really need the ingredients for the foods you feed.  A wordy post is more likely to be skipped over. 

I hope I answered the main questions you needed. 

Yeeeah, I think I went overboard on the details. I'll try to work on condensing my information better int he future

As for the food, you were right, I was going too fast. His stool are looking much better now that he's had the chance to adjust. I'll work on seeking a scale.  Thank you for the input.

 

[itty bitty kitt]

What struck me is that some of the canned/wet foods you feed have a fair amount of fish in them.  Fish is bad for male cats, has to do with the high mineral content which can cause UTIs/blockages.  Was it your vet who said to feed Royal Canin prescription kibble, which I find kind of ironic, considering the amount of fish your cat is getting in his wet food.  I agree with you that you should ditch the dry food; as it is, your cat is getting way more carbs than he needs in the wet food (rice, oatmeal, potatoes, carrots, peas, etc.)

Regarding kibble keeping teeth clean:  cats don't chew kibble, they swallow it.  So, no chewing is involved.  Since you mentioned perhaps raw feeding, see if your cat will chew chicken gizzards--gizzards are really tough, and that will give his teeth a good workout!

Yeah I'm generally pretty cautious with other fish, the Natural Balance i listed was the only flavor I tried with Milo so far, having rejected turkey and duck. I've been giving him bits of roast beef to help counter balance with it. 

and oh! Tell me more about these gizzards! If i were to serve it to him, would it be better to serve it separately from his cooked food ( I heard cooked and raw should not be served together)?

 

[vball91]

I had heard the same thing as well about not feeding raw and cooked together. I actually read 12 hours between feeding kibble and raw. However, there are members here who have fed both kibble and raw together during transition, and there have not been any reports of problems doing that.

So, if you're interested in adding some raw, as long it is less than 15% of the total diet, you don't have to worry about balancing or supplementing. Just chop or dice some raw meat and feed separately if he'll eat it or mixed with his wet food.

Gizzards are hit or miss, so I wouldn't start with that. They're very chewy, so great for dental benefit as Ritz mentioned, but some cats don't like them at all, including mine! Some like gizzards just fine, but since you're introducing raw, I would start with something easier (chicken breast or thigh pieces) so you don't turn him off to raw.

 

[raintyger]

1. Milo loves Fresh Pet. If he really likes it and it seems fairly
well balanced, do I really need to mix or add other food in it?
However I am unsure if this is the cause of his pastey stools. I am
feeding him JUST Fresh Pet now with no mixes for the next week to
determine if it really is the cause or not. In the past I'd mix a TBS
of the other food.

2. If Fresh Pet is causing the pastey stools, what should I do? I've
read adding plain white rice can help but he didn't want to touch it.

3. I noticed he hasn't been as hungry since he came back from the vet
(March 8th) , so he's eating a little less, is this normal? It's only
been 2 days.

3. Was I going too fast? Maybe I was introducing him to new food too
quickly? Should I switch him to 2 meals a day?


Any advise or feedback welcome!
 

1. I haven't analyzed Fresh Pet, but I think this is the refrigerated but cooked brand? It is low in calories, IIRC. You described his poop like "toothpaste." Actually, I had heard that consistency of toothpaste is about right! Here is an article and a tool for you to measure and communicate to your vet how soft the stool is and what the desireable softness is:

http://www.floppycats.com/cat-const...tment-of-constipation-with-dr-jean-hofve.html

Soft stool around the 3 or 4 rating is preferred because it's less strain to push out.

2. Pumpkin can help with either diarrhea OR constipation.

3. Can't answer this question without knowing why he went. Some vaccines or medications will curb appetite.

4. Switch food in 25% increments--25% new food, 50% new food, 75% new food, complete switch over. I was told to increase each week, but I've heard some people do every 2-3 days, I guess if they feel their cat has no adverse symptoms. 3 meals a day is actually a pretty good schedule. Wet food is definitely better over dry.