Cat and Kitten fighting or playing

[KMac8682]

Hi Everyone

this may be long but I’m hoping to give full details.

I have a 2 1/2 year old neutered domestic shorthair called Layla. We got her at 12 weeks. Layla is quite a timid cat, she is indoor as she has a paw missing and is pretty skitterish, even around us. My daughter went to Uni last September and she appeared to change. Started to be sick, not eating, was very vocal when I got in from work, was leaving for work. started sleeping under our bed as opposed to her cat bed she slept in in my daughters room. Would hardly come down stairs. Health was all ok, so I thought maybe she needed company and this is were the story begins.

5 weeks ago I got a female kitten Marley who is now 13 weeks.

Marley was in the safe room for 2 weeks before we allowed them to meet. We done scent swapping, then moved to allowing Layla to visually see Marley through a gate and I felt I really hadn’t rushed introductions. Layla growled etc but it died down.

I now allow supervised time together and they are separated at night, with Marley in our room and Layla having free range of the house as her litter box and food is down stairs and always has been.
Marley at first would not leave Layla alone, jumping on her, just wanting to play fight, so before they see each other I have a good play session with Marley to tire her out.

I was getting really confident about them but now the issue is, Layla appears really aggressive during play. She is initiating the fighting more and they do both take turn chasing each other up and down the stairs and starting the play. There is never any sound from either of them.
Today however, Marley squeaked and when I looked over, Layla ears looked flat down and she was bunny kicking Marley and I seen fur on the bed. I made a loud clap to seperate and had a time out.
They both sleep on my bed together during the day and in the two beds I have in my room ( we have beds all over the house)they can be in the same room without the fighting, it’s just when it starts its starting to looks aggressive.

Do you think it’s getting real? Marley at times won’t give Layla peace and Layla looks now to be getting more aggressive. Marley always comes back for more every time,is that a good thing?They don’t groom each other either. Couple of nose bumps first thing in the morning but nothing that appears bonded as yet.
Marley is only 13 weeks so I don’t want her hurt but at the same time she won’t give Layla much respite.
Layla over the past two weeks has peed on my bed and my daughters bed which is totally out of character. They both have separate litter box and I have an extra one in the hall for them just incase.

Is this normal or should I take a step back with them?

sorry this is long

thanks

 

[di and bob]

It is normal, the kitten is VERY annoying and females are the manners teachers, the limit setters. Bunny kicking with fur flying is a little rough, but MUCH better than deep biting which could be going on if Layla wanted to harm her. Layla is stressed, indicated by the peeing, that should stop once they are bonded, which as you know by now can take many weeks to months. Layla needs a place to escape to, preferably high up that she can feel safe in and defend from the kitten. My Chrissy spent many months on top of the fridge. The kitten needs discipline too and Layla is giving it to her, they learn this between 6 and 12 weeks usually. It's hard to watch a little kitten get disciplined, just like a human child, but it is nature and needs to be done. You can break up fights if they get a little too intense, but kittens are seriously annoying to older cats and fights will happen. Giving a time out is good. It sounds like you are doing everything OK, and the MAIN thing to watch for is what you said, That Marley is coming back for more. If she starts hiding, then things are really hurting and she will avoid Layla and hide when she sees her. Growling, slapping, and hissing are all normal, Layla needs to express herself and let some emotions out, and the kitten needs discipline. It will all work out and they WILL become bonded. Layla isn't lonely or bored anymore and will become friends and interested in what the kitten is doing despite her feelings right now. All the luck!

 

[KMac8682]

It is normal, the kitten is VERY annoying and females are the manners teachers, the limit setters. Bunny kicking with fur flying is a little rough, but MUCH better than deep biting which could be going on if Layla wanted to harm her. Layla is stressed, indicated by the peeing, that should stop once tehy are bonded, which as you know by now can take many weeks to months.

Thanks for you’re reply. I have done my best to ensure Layla isn’t stressed but agree the peeing made me so anxious for her.

I do have time with Layla herself away from the kitten and have bought feliways for 3 rooms too.

I feel a bit more hopeful it’s normal behaviour and I know this process will be a long one.
All I can do is hope I’m taking all the right steps. This is them now. Layla on my bed, Marley in her dome bed.

 

[di and bob]

sorry, I hit the wrong button, my reply iS more in-depth than that, sorry!

 

[cat nap]

Hi KMac8682 ...not long at all. You covered all the bases and I think you are doing everything right.

I was getting really confident about them but now the issue is, Layla appears really aggressive during play. She is initiating the fighting more and they do both take turn chasing each other up and down the stairs and starting the play. There is never any sound from either of them.
Today however, Marley squeaked and when I looked over, Layla ears looked flat down and she was bunny kicking Marley and I seen fur on the bed. I made a loud clap to seperate and had a time out.
They both sleep on my bed together during the day and in the two beds I have in my room ( we have beds all over the house)they can be in the same room without the fighting, it’s just when it starts its starting to looks aggressive.

I think what you are seeing is some aggressive play,...and also some very normal play...(that might only look very aggressive to us humans.)
Because you mention that they are taking turns, and not making any sounds...that usually means...that the play is mutually within what each cat/kitten feels is okay.

Usually, though, one cat will either hiss, vocalize, or take certain defensive/offensive postures while playing, too.

What happened when you clapped loudly?
Did they stop, look over, ....run and hide?

Do you think it’s getting real? Marley at times won’t give Layla peace and Layla looks now to be getting more aggressive. Marley always comes back for more every time,is that a good thing?They don’t groom each other either. Couple of nose bumps first thing in the morning but nothing that appears bonded as yet.

This is the start of a beautiful friendship.

Layla is just setting out her 'ground rules' and teaching the kitten Marley...how to play,...and how she likes to play.
The 'comes back for more every time'....tells you that 'all is good'.

Grooming will sometimes happen between cats, ...but usually this is much later on...when they feel really comfortable with one another...and sometimes...depending upon the cats, ...they don't like to be groomed. (Having the other cat's Scent on them.)

Marley is only 13 weeks so I don’t want her hurt but at the same time she won’t give Layla much respite.
Layla over the past two weeks has peed on my bed and my daughters bed which is totally out of character. They both have separate litter box and I have an extra one in the hall for them just incase.

Is this normal or should I take a step back with them?

The wanting to play and bother Layla is completely normal from Marley.
You'll just have to continue to tire Marley out with extra play sessions, and distractions with games and treats, ...for awhile until she understands not to jump on Layla all the time.
Hopefully, Marley does have her bouts of sleepiness, ....where Layla gets to relax, too.

The peeing on the bed is not normal, though.
So perhaps it's either that Layla did not feel comfortable using her litterbox, or Marley bothered her, or followed her to the litterbox.

Layla could be marking her territory, too,...to try and keep Marley away from either bed.
You'll have to clean all the bed blankets and sheets using some enzymatic cleaner...to get rid of all traces of cat urine.
Could you place something on both beds...such as plastic coverings, medical incontinence sheets or pads, ...to try and contain any mess.
Also, can you keep an eye on when Layla pees on the bed? Is it at times after eating or drinking, or ...when running around during playtime?

 

[cat nap]

This is them now. Layla on my bed, Marley in her dome bed.

Beautiful photo. If you are getting these sort of photos at 5 week cat-kitten intros...then that is fantastic.
I cannot really see Marley in her dome bed...but I'll take your word for it.

If you can post some more photos...or even a video of how they playfight together...then that would be okay, too.

 

[KMac8682]

Hi KMac8682 ...not long at all. You covered all the bases and I think you are doing everything right.

I think what you are seeing is some aggressive play,...and also some very normal play...(that might only look very aggressive to us humans.)
Because you mention that they are taking turns, and not making any sounds...that usually means...that the play is mutually within what each cat/kitten feels is okay.

Usually, though, one cat will either hiss, vocalize, or take certain defensive/offensive postures while playing, too.

What happened when you clapped loudly?
Did they stop, look over, ....run and hide?

This is the start of a beautiful friendship.

Layla is just setting out her 'ground rules' and teaching the kitten Marley...how to play,...and how she likes to play.
The 'comes back for more every time'....tells you that 'all is good'.

Grooming will sometimes happen between cats, ...but usually this is much later on...when they feel really comfortable with one another...and sometimes...depending upon the cats, ...they don't like to be groomed. (Having the other cat's Scent on them.)


The wanting to play and bother Layla is completely normal from Marley.
You'll just have to continue to tire Marley out with extra play sessions, and distractions with games and treats, ...for awhile until she understands not to jump on Layla all the time.
Hopefully, Marley does have her bouts of sleepiness, ....where Layla gets to relax, too.

The peeing on the bed is not normal, though.
So perhaps it's either that Layla did not feel comfortable using her litterbox, or Marley bothered her, or followed her to the litterbox.

Layla could be marking her territory, too,...to try and keep Marley away from either bed.
You'll have to clean all the bed blankets and sheets using some enzymatic cleaner...to get rid of all traces of cat urine.
Could you place something on both beds...such as plastic coverings, medical incontinence sheets or pads, ...to try and contain any mess.
Also, can you keep an eye on when Layla pees on the bed? Is it at times after eating or drinking, or ...when running around during playtime?

Thank you so much for you’re reply.

When I clapped they both stopped and looked at me then walked away.

I beleive Layla smelt Marley on our bed as when I woke up during the night. Marley had creeped in my bed and the spot she was sleeping was the exact spot Layla peed
Right now Layla is on my bed sleeping so do you think I should have both of them remain off the bed? It’s hard as right now I’m just happy they are both sleeping and content so unsure what to do.
Marley has an energy that I do not recall Layla having maybe as Layla has a paw missing she wasn’t quite as boisterous but Marley is like the Duracell bunny.

I really appreciate your advice

 

[KMac8682]

Beautiful photo. If you are getting these sort of photos at 5 week cat-kitten intros...then that is fantastic.
I cannot really see Marley in her dome bed...but I'll take your word for it.

If you can post some more photos...or even a video of how they playfight together...then that would be okay, too.

Marley in her bed
Both having treats together last night and a video from today before it kicked off
(Can’t upload video)

 

[KMac8682]

Sorry both had dinner last night not treats. Was trying to feed them together as Marley was sneaking down and trying to eat kayaks food.

 

[cat nap]

When I clapped they both stopped and looked at me then walked away.

That is great. I was worried that the little one Marley might have gotten too scared.
(My cats are both 5.5 years and both siblings from same litter, male and female, ...and they still chase each other and playfight...but when I clap or loudly say "hey, hey, hey"...then the male cat always runs away...as though he's scared or at fault. Meanwhile today in the morning, it was the female cat who started the chase and swatted him. She often does this to get him back for a prior play-fight.)

I beleive Layla smelt Marley on our bed as when I woke up during the night. Marley had creeped in my bed and the spot she was sleeping was the exact spot Layla peed
Right now Layla is on my bed sleeping so do you think I should have both of them remain off the bed? It’s hard as right now I’m just happy they are both sleeping and content so unsure what to do.

Okay. So then perhaps Layla is just marking her favourite spots, and not being scared or bothered from using her litterbox.

I personally would leave them on the bed...but I would buy those 'incontinence sheets or bedding pads'...or even place some sort of 'bed protection sheets'...so that your mattress does not get ruined.

It's difficult if Layla pees only on the comforters or blankets...but may be they make some sort of 'special comforter covers' for incontinence, too. (If you can sew or velcro...then sew some flat sheets together to make a special cover.)

Marley has an energy that I do not recall Layla having maybe as Layla has a paw missing she wasn’t quite as boisterous but Marley is like the Duracell bunny.

I really appreciate your advice

"like the Duracell bunny"...haha... I remember that commercial...it keeps going and going...
Yup, sounds like you have a totally normal kitten there.

Marley in her bed
Both having treats together last night and a video from today before it kicked off
(Can’t upload video)

Okay, thanks. Now I can get a clear photo of Marley.
Adorable when they are sleeping.

Both your cats look great.
I cannot believe the size difference.
I forget how small kittens were, and how fast they grow up.

 

[cat nap]

....and a video from today before it kicked off
(Can’t upload video)

This cat site article might help:
How To Upload And Add Videos To Your Posts – TheCatSite Articles

To upload a video, I think that you have to have it in a special format, and size has a limit.
Or maybe members link to it...from youtube or elsewhere...I cannot recall.