Bowen's Disease

[babiesmom5]

That is good the rash stopped on Kitty's chest. Likely the Aldera irritated it leading to the rash. Now as for the incision itching, I tend to think the skin may be "knitting" or healing. A sense of itchiness often occurs following any surgery on or around the incision as the skin heals or "knits' back together.
The other thing I can think of is some bacteria or fungus around the area causing itchiness. My cat had this too and the Dermatologist recommended I apply a solution of 1 part white vinegar to 2 parts water; apply around the incision once or twice a day if she will let you. Don't apply directly on the incision as it will burn, but just the irritated area around the incision. Give that a few days and see if that helps. If not, I would consult the vet for maybe a topical cream safe for cats.

 

[Black&White]

Thank you, I will try that! Her fur has already partially grown back around the incision, and it has been a couple of months since the surgery, so not sure why it would still be itchy...

 

[Black&White]

Hello Babiesmom, another question, Kitty has had 3 small scabs on her front leg for quite a few months now, our vet said he thought they were also Bowen's, but they have not responded to the Aldera. I found a new one on her back leg today that she had torn the fur off of and was licking it. I don't think these are Bowen's, but thought I would see what you think. I attached two photo's, the front paw one is not clear, it is difficult to trim the fur there, but there is a tiny blackish scab, the back leg is quite pink and larger.

 

[babiesmom5]

Just from these photos, they do not look like Bowens, but something else. Bowens is grey or black colored lesions and have a plaque or crustiness about them. It could be a fungus or bacteria. My girl has some of that between her toes. You could try the dilute water/white vinegar mixture for a few days and see if it does anything. If not, I would see the vet and get a culture. A simple scraping and a look under the microscope should give some answers.

 

[Black&White]

Thank you, much appreciated!

 

[AlexaB]

Hello ladies,
We finally have an appointment for laser surgery and I wanted to share this wonderful news with you . The CO2 laser is not available in Austria either but the doctor in Austria was very kind and gave me the name of a doctor in Germany that uses it. The surgery is planned for the 17th of March. She will have to spend 2 nights alone in the hospital (one before the surgery because they want to make sure she is well hydrated because of her kidneys and the night after the surgery to make sure she recovers well from the anesthesia) and this makes me a bit sad but I know it is for her own good. I hope all will go well, I really am optimistic. I bought some baby onesies for her to wear after the surgery to avoid the collar but I am still trying to figure out what parts of it to cut off so they fit well ) She only had one sugery, when she was sprayed, so if you have any tips for prior and post surgery for me, I would really appreciate it.

 

[babiesmom5]

This is wonderful news...am so happy for you and your kitty! CO2 laser is the most effective treatment for Bowen's, disease to prevent the lesions from going subdermal and turning into Squamous Cell carcinoma.
It is good she will be well hydrated prior to this surgery because it does require general anesthesia. It is also a good idea post op, both from a hydration standpoint and also they can add a pain medication into the IV fluids. She will be well shaved prior to surgery so the laser pen can penetrate effectively. Be sure to ask about pain medication for going home and any antibiotics needed. I am not sure about the baby onesies post-op. Could you ask the surgeon about a soft collar? In any event, you need to make sure she cannot scratch, lick at the treated lesions wherever they are as they will be sensitive and may itch.
Since she is having her surgery on March 17th, I will wish her the luck of the Irish. I am not sure we Irish have all the luck, but any we do have, I am wishing all for your baby. Please keep us updated as all here are rooting for her.

 

[AlexaB]

Hi ladies! Just want to give a very short update : we are back home, the surgery went well, my cat is alive and currently recovering (very well I might say). She had the best care she could have had and I want to wait 1-2 more weeks to make sure she is completley healed before I pull myself together to share the details of my personal expreience with this disease and the available treatments (which I hope will help other peope that have to deal with that)

 

[babiesmom5]

That's wonderful news! All here share your joy that everything went well. We will be glad to hear more details about your experience when you are able. Meanwhile give your baby some extra love from us.
Thanks for the update!

 

[SilveredFox]

Greetings! Well the good news is I've found this really lovely looking site. I'll have to check out the rest soon. The less good news is I discovered it because I was trying desperately to look up any small bit of information that was out there that had to deal with Imiquimom (which we're trying because I don't know what else to do) And I wanted to learn as much as I could before starting.

My poor vet doesn't know much but she's trying to learn as we go and follow the specialist's advice. I've only really processed this for a few days and like probably too many other people we did a ton of useless treatements to finally end up at a biopsy to realize yeah it's SCC

So treating it is really important. I don't know if I'll have the funds to look into an oncologist and my main priority right now is finding some way to manage the issue while letting her have a good life so I don't know if putting her through surgeries will even BE an option but hi!

Sad to be a part of the club here, but I want to learn and I want to be a lot more proactive in keeping my other furbabies healthy.

My other current stress has been worry about the papillomavirus itself. There's like no data online anywhere - I have two other cats (babies really they're only 2 years old) and they mean everything to me, and only just now learning that my other furbaby DOES have a papilloma induced issue, I'm terrified that they've been exposed and will end up sick as well.

They live on seperate levels since they don't really get along but they HAVE touched noses once, and I go back and forth between them so I have n idea if it's highly likely things have spread? If sharing a carrier once maybe risked them? If my clothes might have been a carrier?

Literally the only information I've dug up so far talks about dogs, dog toys, and just keeps repeating 'it's fine cause it's not cross species' (Yeah thanks internet, I'm worried about cat to cat - PLEASE have more information so I can take care of my babies better?)

I can expand more on everything in a bit, I'm still coming to terms with all of this and just trying to wrap my head around it but I'm willing to do whatever I can because my cats are absolutely my sanity right now and they deserve the best I can give them.

 

[babiesmom5]

First, welcome to this small, but specialized club...but sorry you have to be here. Like the rest of us, Bowen's Disease is diagnosed after a lengthy process where everything else is ruled out. Because it is so rare, vets are usually not knowledgeable about it. My vet admits she has only seen one case of it in nearly 50 years of practice! Therefore, a specialist needs to get involved; the sooner the better.

Did the biopsy definitely diagnose Squamous Cell Carcinoma? Bowen's Disease is a slow growing cancer and can be successfully managed as long as it stays DERMAL (on the skin). When it grows deeper, (beneath the skin) then it becomes SCC. I would get a clear diagnosis first.

If it is still dermal; ie Bowen's Disease, then I would recommend a Vet Dermatologist. If it has indeed gone subdermal,(beneath the skin layers), then I would recommend a Vet Oncologist. There is a big difference here in how this is managed/treated.

Imiquimod is used when it is still dermal; has not penetrated beneath the skin layers. It can be effective for a time, but it usually requires further therapy, Cyrotherapy, Laser, surgery etc.

I would recommend you read through all the postings from those of here on this thread. Different treatments, therapies are discussed. That will answer some of your questions and concerns.

In answer to your question about the exposure to Pappilomavirus, I asked my vet dermatologist that same question as my cat lives with, sleeps with, eats with, is in very close contact with her sister cat. My vet reassured me that NO it is not transferable unless there is very close, very prolonged contact with the lesions. She never caught anything, so I wouldn't worry about it.

I realize you are just coming to terms with all of this; trying to process it all as we here have. Let me reassure you that Bowen's is treatable and manageable as long as you are diligent and pro-active.

All here wish you and your kitty all the best. Please keep us updated.

 

[SilveredFox]

Thank you - unfortunately it did change to SCC and my vet is trying to round up an oncologist but the price of one as well as the ability to actually find one (and the current treatment options for how many locations it's in as well as expense and what's offered here in the northeast) made her advise trying to just manage things topically and palliatively.

I don't know what to do, because I also don't want to drag her around to millions of appointments, put her through tons of treatment stress when the prognosis will still be less than ideal because that would be for me, not for her. But I also want to do as much as I can while I can.

Unfortunately even though it's slow growing since she's had it for a very long time and then we didn't catch it because none of my vets had any idea what we were dealing with it grew enough to change. The recommendation was still trying the imiquimod to just keep the lesions under control and just... accept things. I tried bringing up possible options but her current advice is that most treatments would be very invasive, very expensive, and not likely to add much quality to her life.

Whether that's true, or she's learning as much as I am I don't know. I'm not going to be frustrated that she's not a specialist because that's NOT her specialty but I'm in a hard space right now with trying to find someone who would be an option, and finding the extra to put towards it. I want to just toss thousands at a new consultation/specialist/treatments but if it will just torment her then not only would that be a horrible choice, but I don't have that offhand right now. I already used my backup funds to get the biopsy along with all of the failed treatments we attempted that just let more and more time pass for it to get worse.

Not that I'm saying she's not worth finding a way to come up with the funds for - I just am trying to weigh out what I should make her go through because I want to keep her with me, versus just accepting that she might have had this growing from before I even brought her inside and due to everything I let it get so much worse because I (and my vets who DID try very hard to help they just kept trying in the wrong directions) didn't know what we were doing.

We have gone through so many different attempts to fix this - from some advice to just watch things, to antibiotics, to trying to keep it covered since she kept worrying at her neck, to everything stopping to take care of her teeth which caused the biggest delay, but if we didn't get her teeth straightened out there wouldn't be a cat to treat. She had horrible dental issues from being outdoors for years and I remember asking about possible other issues, and if there was anything else they could do while she was there and under since they were already putting her through that to remove them, and it pretty much was just - Teeth are bad it's just dental disease just get the teeth out.

All of it just added time and more time.

But I'm where I am, and I'm trying to just find a good direction to go in. And stressing that every choice I make will be the wrong one, or if only I realized/pushed harder/we got these results sooner maybe it would have made enough of a difference.

Or maybe it wouldn't have and she already was riddled with issues. I'm still waiting for the biopsy report if they will send that to me - I got something but it looked like it was just the initial submission results.

There were also a lot of months of 'Oh we need to figure this out but I'm not worried at this time' delays which I'm not going to blame anyone for but I'll be privately heartbroken at how all of this went down.

For now she's been very done with being dragged to the vet just to get bloodwork and I don't know if putting her through an extremely intense cancer routine would help? Or just wreck the rest of her QOL. Or it would be worth trying because there's still a chance.

It's a lot, and thank you for your kind words as I'm just trying to deal with all of this.

If I remember from the fog I was in when she called with the results, it's changed to SCC but the vet didn't think it had spread very far yet - so maybe there's a chance for this to help or at least help manage things until I can save up for/find an oncologist who HAS an opening.

I don't know the first thing about finding a specialist, other than my vet repeating over and over 'well it's really expensive and they're currently hard to get appointments with'

 

[SilveredFox]

My other frustration is that I've wasted so many hundreds and precious TIME on things that weren't what we needed to be focused on, that all could have helped pay for that specialist, or the treatment. Or helped avoid harder treatments being necessary. But I can't change the past, I can only try and do what I can now and try not to be so heartbroken about what could have been. And for all I know it wouldn't have changed much, but ... well it is what it is. Tons of trips back and forth to the vet only to not really accomplish anything before we finally have answers and now I'm racing against a clock that's probably been ticking for ages.

I've read through this entire thread start to finish, and will keep trying to look for more information but there's so little out there that it's ben hard.

Every time I try and find the energy to figure out what to do on my own I have to fight the heartache and overwhelming amount of things to learn to even START to try and find some answers, or help or. Anything.

 

[SilveredFox]

Also sorry if this isn't the best place for discussions and questions! If she's progressed past Bowen's disease I tried to make a thread about imiquimod in general, and questions towards that. But if any experiences we get through all of this can help anyone here in the future I'll keep posting here as we go. It can be an unfortunately good reminder for why catching things early is so very very important.

I know in my head that there's only been so much I've been able to do since this was probably developing for ages before I ever even got her but my heart just says I screwed everything up.

She showed up after an ice storm randomly slightly feral and starving and over the coarse of a year and a half or so I got her friendly and trusting again. My vet is 99% sure at some point during all of the time she was outside fighting with other cats that that would have been when she was infected but we have no idea how old she is. Or when this started, so it could have been growing and already bad by the time we even started trying the wrong things (so even more time passed)

She invited herself in and has been a happy indoors girl ever since but I have no idea about her medical history which has been making this a lot harder and probably contributed to all of the wrong directions through the time she's been with me. I'll just be happy if at least I can keep her comfortable, because I know I also should take into account that she could have even more issues we're not even aware of - and I've been trying to weight doing the more invasive tests with putting her through all this stuff when all she seems to want is to curl up and be happy inside.

Thank you so much for your advice and kind words and I definitely have typed more than a few essays already. I ramble when I'm stressed and this has been absolutely stressful in all ways.

I've tried over the years to ask for advice from a few of the vets we've seen and they all very respectfully have tried to explain 'oh well you might not want to try that because it's very expensive and it might not help you' (when I last asked about being referred to a dermatologist) And apparently they're all booked up too.
I appreciate the concern about my finances but I'm worried I lost so much valuable treatment time because no one would give me a good CLEAR answer it was just 'well this is a lot'
> Ok well how much is a lot? maybe I can borrow, or find a way to budget for it or... something
Oh well a lot.
and then all the funds that could have been saved to go towards that went into visit after visit for antibiotics, and checking up to see that they haven't done anything and then a very expensive biopsy to finally be here where we are now.

This is my little duck btw - she pretty much followed me inside, and follows me around all day back and forth until I sit and she can be a puddle of a cat on my legs. Christmas was when we were dealing with her almost $1700 teeth extraction which helped a lot but it overshadowed the real issue (which was what would have been the Bowen's disease)

But she recovered from it. She has very few teeth now since they were all in horrible shape after all her time outdoors, but she put up with the process and all the meds and everything that's been thrown at her so well. I don't want to put her through more. But I also don't want to give up on her even though I've only really known her for a bare few years including the time I spent with her outside when she first found me.

 

[SilveredFox]

Thinking more on the conversation (they were supposed to send me the results but haven't so I sent another e-mail if they could please forward those to me so I don't have to just rely on my stressed memory)

She might have said SCC in situ - she said something about there definitely being signs of papillomavirus, and it being concerning and that it looked like it might be mutating but might not have penetrated deeply yet?

My worry is that we didn't biopsy her extremities and that one of those might have already been a deeper issue. I'm going to keep trying to follow up with all of this, and probably be a bit of a mess in the threads here as I both process, and come to terms and learn all the things I wish I knew months ago but I'm just so absolutely grateful that this thread here exists.

I was feeling so hopelessly alone with all of this, and just finding a few people who've dealt with it has already made all the difference emotionally.

 

[SilveredFox]

(Sorry for so many multiple posts I keep remembering stuff and realizing I can't just edit it in) A good possible thing! My regular vet is finally back! It's been about 4 or 5 months and I've been using a different vet in the mean time which is partly why this all dragged so long (we started all the way over from scratch and I was just in a tailspin trying to follow advice but my gut kept telling me that we weren't doing the right things but I didn't know what to ask at that time)

But my regular vet is back and just hearing her voice again on the voicemail made me so relieved I think I'm going to see if she's ok with me switching back to her and get her all updated. I want to be polite to the person who's been helping me so much recently, but more heads are better and this way maybe they can work together - Newer vet has the recent stuff but my old vet has more experience across the whole time I've had Honey. And I think knows a little more about dermatology. Not a specialist but it's something that she's passionate about so she might have some extra insights maybe.

It wasn't anything bad, just maternity leave and I'm so happy for her but I'm so desperately grateful she's back and I hope that we can follow up soon. I wish I'd realized that she was in because I would have gone straight to her for the follow up but I'm just glad that we're making some progress somehow. Again I don't want to be rude to this other lady who's been doing her best with a difficult and confusing situation (most of the people who've tried to help so far were convinced it was likely pemphigus but I wanted the biopsy to know what we were dealing with for sure)

 

[SilveredFox]

>< Her results weren't actually uploaded into her profile. I just happened to talk to a totally different vet who saw my kittens recently and she checked everything out for me while I had her on the phone (I've been waiting for the results to be sent?) And she said they didn't even have them. This - this is why all of this has gone on so much longer than it needed to so now we might be dealing with such a worse problem -_-

I'm just hopeful that I'm aware now, I'll be VERY on top of what I can and I just hope it's not all too late after all of this. Again thanks for bearing with all of my many posts and updates. I'll hope to see some actual information soon.

I don't know what's normal for time to wait or information to get or anything, and I'm learning as I go. But I have a feeling there's been a ton of things slipping through the cracks here and I'm starting to feel the frustration.

 

[babiesmom5]

I can well understand your stress over all this, but take a deep breath; take one step at a time. First, you need to get the biopsy report back. It usually takes 4-5 days up to a week. If that amount of time has passed, follow up.

Before any treatment decisions can be made you need a definitive diagnosis. All Bowen's Disease is Squamous Cell Carcinoma. The difference is if the biopsy states "IN SITU". If yes, the SCC is still confined to skin. This can be treated by a good Vet Dermatologist.

If the biopsy does not state "In Situ", then your kitty likely needs treatment by an Oncologist.

Depending upon the exact wording of the biopsy report, your vet can then direct you to a specialist. You can find Vet Dermatologists and Oncologists at Vet teaching hospitals as well as large specialty care vet clinics. My cat is treated by a Dermatologist at a large specialty clinic outside of a major city.

While all here have stressed over lost time in diagnosing Bowen's Disease, the key is to determine what steps are needed going forward to give your cat the best fighting chance.

Let us know when you receive a definitive diagnosis.

 

[SilveredFox]

I can well understand your stress over all this, but take a deep breath; take one step at a time. First, you need to get the biopsy report back. It usually takes 4-5 days up to a week. If that amount of time has passed, follow up.

Before any treatment decisions can be made you need a definitive diagnosis. All Bowen's Disease is Squamous Cell Carcinoma. The difference is if the biopsy states "IN SITU". If yes, the SCC is still confined to skin. This can be treated by a good Vet Dermatologist.

If the biopsy does not state "In Situ", then your kitty likely needs treatment by an Oncologist.

Depending upon the exact wording of the biopsy report, your vet can then direct you to a specialist. You can find Vet Dermatologists and Oncologists at Vet teaching hospitals as well as large specialty care vet clinics. My cat is treated by a Dermatologist at a large specialty clinic outside of a major city.

While all here have stressed over lost time in diagnosing Bowen's Disease, the key is to determine what steps are needed going forward to give your cat the best fighting chance.

Let us know when you receive a definitive diagnosis.

Thank you again. It actually took almost 2 and a half weeks and we did for sure get the report back but I couldn't remember what she said over the phone- and they can't forward it until they upload the data to her profile. This has all been in result of the follow up to that biopsy (she had the biopsy done on march 30th, I got the results earlier this week, and I still feel like I haven't had much real support in a comprehensive way through the process.

I think my next steps are going to be straightening out this lack of clarity because clear answers (when I SHOULD have answers since the pathology results did come in and I have no idea why they aren't on her charts right now) and possibly staging to get a better idea is the next step I want to try taking.

I feel like I remember my vet mentioning an oncologist since it looked like it was progressing so I know at least I need to be on top of this. It probably will be at least a day or more to get this followed up but I'll wait to come back until I have some actual real answers.

Thank you guys for just being support through this it's been helping, and just reading through all of this has been helping me start to make a game plan for getting her on the right track.

 

[SilveredFox]

I can well understand your stress over all this, but take a deep breath; take one step at a time. First, you need to get the biopsy report back. It usually takes 4-5 days up to a week. If that amount of time has passed, follow up.

Before any treatment decisions can be made you need a definitive diagnosis. All Bowen's Disease is Squamous Cell Carcinoma. The difference is if the biopsy states "IN SITU". If yes, the SCC is still confined to skin. This can be treated by a good Vet Dermatologist.

If the biopsy does not state "In Situ", then your kitty likely needs treatment by an Oncologist.

Depending upon the exact wording of the biopsy report, your vet can then direct you to a specialist. You can find Vet Dermatologists and Oncologists at Vet teaching hospitals as well as large specialty care vet clinics. My cat is treated by a Dermatologist at a large specialty clinic outside of a major city.

While all here have stressed over lost time in diagnosing Bowen's Disease, the key is to determine what steps are needed going forward to give your cat the best fighting chance.

Let us know when you receive a definitive diagnosis.

Vet called me back! She said they scanned in the wrong thing, and that it is In Situ (we don't have any biopsy results for her nosepad or foot so I don't know if those could be at different stages but her neck is still In Situ)