Anyone have experience with a cat with Kidney failure?

[lorie d.]

Sicy, I have a suggestion that might help Moochie. Since she will drink but won't eat, ask your friend to try giving Moochie a small amount of wet cat food that has had more water added to it so it is really soupy and has the consistency of water rather than food. Hopefully, it will work and your friend will be able to get a little more nourishment into Moochie!!!

 

[sicycat]

Thank you Lorie I will tell her. I also found some good information on the site Tess posted, I just now went to examine it.. there's a lot of good tips for getting your cat to eat.

 

[pat]

Hi Sicy,

Somehow I missed this a couple of days ago. I see someone has already listed the excellent feline crf site - and I'd like to recomend this group, [email protected] as being incredibly knowledgeable and helpful.

Patrick was diagnosed about 14 months ago, and placed on calcitriol, he also is on pepcid ac daily and pet-tinic (crf kitties may develop anemia), and sub-q fluids every other day. So far no binders since his phosphorous levels are doing well. When his appetite was better, I rotated foods using the katkarma food pages (listed at the felinecrf site) to choose low phosphorus foods that were also a bit lower in protein. I've been more concerned with the quality of the protein and the phosphorous level, than the per centage of protein. The best advice I've seen - treat the cat, not the numbers.

Recently, I've had to move to daily assist-feedings, though he is eating crunchies on his own, it's not enough, so I supplement. The good thing about this is that I use a well rate food he normally won't eat, so his diet has actually improved

I'm barely awake, so hope this is coherent...please tell your friend, that as others are noting here, Moochie can potentially live for years with this diagnosis, but it does, especially at first, require some work to figure out what they need to get them stabilized. Mouth ulcers are a common problem, as is stomach acid and nausea (which is why I use pepcid ac for Patrick, and check his gums for sores), bladder infections are also common, so keeping an eye on their box behavior and for signs of infection are important.

Patrick has blood work about every 3-4 months, and is seen in between if I feel he needs it. I shamelessly use various treats to get him to eat a bit more, and just as a reward after his sub-q fluids are given. So far, his quality of life has remained pretty good...he naps, he talks to me with his eyes (feed me now), naps some more, plays with a toy, naps, sits on my lap...you get the picture...typical older cat

 

[sicycat]

Poor Moochie!! Its like the medication makes her feel worse. She says that after she gives her the medication she drools, and she just looks sick and lays around. When she comes home from work Moochie follows her around and seems ok but as soon as she gives her the medicine, thats it

She was able to force feed her too a few times. She wont touch the k/d stuff but will eat some of her regular food. If Jenn gives her the medicine after she eats, she throws up

If she gives it to her before she eats, she wont eat. *sigh* She's going to talk to the vet again tomorrow but I cant imagine how frustrating this is.

Was it like this in the beginning for those of you who's cats have crf?

 

[pat]

What medication is Moochie on? The crf website that has been listed also lists medications used, what they are used for, and suggestions on how to give, how to time feeding with each,side effects.

K/D is *not* the only food out there for crf kitties!Here are the stats for k/d (based on dry-matter analysis, site listed below): Protein 28.20%, Phosphorus 0.460%, Fat 22.30%, IVD SelectCare Modified isrotein 28.29%, phosphorus 0.622%, Fat 24.05%, this is a popular food with some crf kitties.
Patrick didn't like the Eukanuba Multi-Stage Renal Diet but does very much like Purina CNM NF - protein 30.78%, phosphorus 0.410% and fat 12.85%. Other crf kitties like Walthams Low-Protein...these are *all* prescription dry foods for cats with kidney failure. Please tell Moochie's mom to go to these pages:
http://www.webpages.charter.net/katkarma/dryfood.htm (where the above figures are from) and http://www.webpages.charter.net/katkarma/canfood.htm so she can see all the options, prescription and non, that are out there.

 

[momofmany]

I did not have the same issues with Bogart as Moochie is having. While he lost weight prior to diagnosis, he has been eating enough to maintain his current weight (about 2 pounds less than when he was in his prime) for the last 8 months. He HATED the sub-q's (fought me tooth and nail), and only stabilized his eating after I took him off them for a while. We are getting close to putting him back on them for a while.

CRF is certainly a roller coaster ride.

 

[moochiebelle]

Hello everyone,

My name is Jenny and I am Moochie's mommy.

I cannot thank Sicy enough for starting this thread, or all of you who have taken the time to post messages. Thank you all so much, it means so much to me and gives me hope.

Someone asked about meds....Moochie came home from the vet on Wednesday with Clavamox (1ml twice daily), Cimetidine (0.3ml 2-3 times daily as needed) and both dry and canned k/d. She wouldn't eat Wednesday night. She took a few licks of "regular" food Thursday morning (after refusing k/d), but certainly not enough and not normal for her... Moochie's an eater. So by early Thursday evening, she still had not really eaten anything and I called the vet to tell them this. They told me to stop giving her the Clavamox but continue the Cimetidine, and if she wouldn't eat I'd have to force feed. At first I was giving her the Cimetidine before feeding her... I'd give it to her, wait 30 mins to an hour for it to absorb in her and then I'd try feeding her, but the Cimetidine, to me, made her look even worse. By Friday mid-day, I thought I'd try switching it around and give her the Cimetidine after her food...big mistake, she just vomitted up everything I force fed her and also had some bowel problems immediately following.

But then when I came home from work around 5 and offered her food, again she ignored the k/d but then she did take a few licks of her normal food, again not enough though. I should note that over the past few days, there have been times when Moochie has physically looked better and acted better but it seemed like when I gave her the Cimetidine in preparation for feeding her, she looked bad again.

*sigh* I've tried every suggestion I've seen for feeding her... the tuna juice, water in the food, warming the food, mixing half her normal food with the k/d. She just doesn't have an interest in eating. She has been drinking water. I've placed several extra water bowls around the house since she came home and sometimes I notice she'll water from water bowl to water bowl.

I'm taking Moochie back into the vet this morning, and I have a ton of questions I want to ask the vet, so I'm hoping things will work out. I don't wanna give up on Moochie too soon, but it's been so discouraging this past week. I just want her to eat. I can deal with her taking pills and all the struggling/discomfort that involves, but if she's not eating, she appears so weak.

I have a feeling they may want to hospitalize her again, to get more fluids in her. I may try that again, but is it normal to keep them in the hospital that long? She was already in the hospital Sunday through Wednesday. I just can't imagine all the stress being put on her with them poking and prodding her and being in a strange place, but if it helps her, I'm all for it.

Anyway, I'm sorry... I don't even know if I'm making any sense at this point. But thanks again, to everyone, for your posts and suggestions, it's really helped A LOT!

Jenny

 

[lorie d.]

Welcome to TCS Jenny!

I wanted to suggest that you take along an old blanket or some clothing that has your scent on it. If Moochie does have to be hospitalized again, placing these items in the cage with her will help to comfort her. Also, I know from personal experience that predisone helps to stimulate a cat to eat. However, I don't know if temporarily(sp?) placing Moochie on this medication is an option that your vet can consider.

Good luck, I am hoping Moochie will start feeling better soon!

 

[pat]

Originally posted by moochiebelle
Hello everyone,

My name is Jenny and I am Moochie's mommy.

Someone asked about meds....Moochie came home from the vet on Wednesday with Clavamox (1ml twice daily), Cimetidine (0.3ml 2-3 times daily as needed) and both dry and canned k/d. She wouldn't eat Wednesday night. She took a few licks of "regular" food Thursday morning (after refusing k/d), but certainly not enough and not normal for her... Moochie's an eater. So by early Thursday evening, she still had not really eaten anything and I called the vet to tell them this. Jenny

Hi Jenny,
If you've not yet gone to the vets, ask them to discuss how to assist feed using a syringe (I use a 12 cc syringe). I've seen Patrick regain his appetite after I've assist-fed him for several days in a row...but I also know his numbers, and he's still in the earlier stages of crf. It is critical that you get her to eat, because cats just don't tolerate not eating very well, and can develop hepatic lipidosis.

What are Moochie's test results - her bun, creatinine, calcium, phosphorus, potassium, is she anemic at all? Get a copy of all the test results, because the feinecrf support list on yahoogroups, or just one of the several excellent websites out there can help you understand exactly what each results means, and the recommended treatment. Was Moochie diagnosed with an infection and that's why she's on clavamox? Would your vet consider changing from the cimetidine to famotidine (pepcid ac 1/4 tab every other day to every day is what many use)? Has he discussed eventually using sub-q fluids for Moochie at home?

I'm sorry, I know I'm throwing a lot at you, and I remember how I felt when Patrick was diagnosed...overwhelmed and just wanting my sweet cream boy to eat and feel better. I hope your vet visit brings you more answers and that Moochie begins feeling better, day by day.

 

[moochiebelle]

Hi everyone,

I'm back from the vet and here's what I know right now:

The outlook is not as well as I expected, but hopefully you guys can tell me otherwise.

Moochie's BUN and Creatinine levels are back up. They were 143 and 12 when I took her into the emergency vet last Sunday, after fluid treatment at my vet for several days (Monday through Wednesday) the numbers dropped to 65 and 5, but they tested her again today and she's back up to 129 and 9 already. (I don't know the other numbers...I have them from the emergency visit, but not today's visit.) So the vet said things weren't looking good, they could hospitalize her again and run fluids, etc. but there was no guarantee it would for sure help. So of course I started balling because she made it sound like I was gonna have to put Mooch down right then and there. But then she mentioned the sub-q fluids (did I get the name right?) which I would have to inject into Moochie twice daily, and I told her I definitely wanted to give it a shot. The vet showed me how to do it while I was there...I just hope I can do it by myself tonight. I may need to see if my mom will come over and help me hold her the first time... I don't want to stick her with a needle and then have her get away from me and have to start all over.

I also got different food for her... Purina's NF food with trout as the third ingredient (Mooch likes seafood flavors best) and she actually ate some of it off the vet's finger at the office, and even poked her head out of the cat carrier to take a little bit more from the can, but then that was it (but at least it was something)... I tried giving her the food just now and she wouldn't even look at it. But the vet gave me two different bigger syringes and told me how much I should be getting into her using the syringe and they said if she'll eat her regular food, that's fine too, the most important thing is to get her eating on her own.

So I'm really hoping I can do the needle/fluid thing and get her eating, because it doesn't seem like her kidneys will take much more of this.

Any suggestions on giving the sub-q fluids alone? Can it be solo, or does it need to be a two person job? I usually have to wrap Moochie in a towel if I want to give her pills, etc. cuz she usually doesn't stay very well on her own, so I'm nervous about the fluids, but want to give it a shot.

Any other advice?

I'm sorry it took my cat getting sick to find such a cool cat forum web site like this. I plan to look around here more once Moochie's feeling better.

 

[moochiebelle]

Originally posted by Pat & Alix
Hi Jenny,
If you've not yet gone to the vets, ask them to discuss how to assist feed using a syringe (I use a 12 cc syringe). I've seen Patrick regain his appetite after I've assist-fed him for several days in a row...but I also know his numbers, and he's still in the earlier stages of crf. It is critical that you get her to eat, because cats just don't tolerate not eating very well, and can develop hepatic lipidosis.

The vet gave me bigger syringes and I plan to get that food into her if she won't eat on her own.

Originally posted by Pat & Alix

What are Moochie's test results - her bun, creatinine, calcium, phosphorus, potassium, is she anemic at all? Get a copy of all the test results, because the feinecrf support list on yahoogroups, or just one of the several excellent websites out there can help you understand exactly what each results means, and the recommended treatment. Was Moochie diagnosed with an infection and that's why she's on clavamox? Would your vet consider changing from the cimetidine to famotidine (pepcid ac 1/4 tab every other day to every day is what many use)? Has he discussed eventually using sub-q fluids for Moochie at home?

I'm not quite sure why they put her on Clavamox, but they didn't mention it anymore during today's visit and I didn't think of it either, so I'm just going to see how she does with the new food and the fluids.

I also got a better idea of when to give the cimetidine... I wasn't sure before but now hopefully I'll give it to her in a more timely manner that will help her eat.

 

[pat]

Hi Jenny,

I'm glad to see Moochie was interested in this latest food, and that you've had a lesson on sub-q fluids

Here is a wonderful page (from a second website that while written by a gal in England, is the best I know of, on a par with the previously recommended www.felinecrf.com, this page is www.felinecrf.org)here is her page on sub-q fluids: feline crf fluid therapy sub-q
One link from her site with photos (scroll down to find the sub-q with fluid set photos) is: vetmed.wse.edu cat fluids

All of that said...I put Patrick on his favorite bed, up on my kitchen counter...I have a cup holder I hang my cutting boards on, I take them down and hang my iv bag and set from here. I tell him he's a good boy, pull up the skin to make a tent, try my best to not poke through the tent (immediately obvious as once you open the roller the fluid is going all over his fur!), open the roller once it's inserted and watch to see that the 100 cc's I give him, has infused. When done, I put gentle pressure on the site just after I've withdrawn the needle, change to a clean needle for next use, and then give him a favorite treat (kitty kaviar or wildside salmon, or rosie's rosedust, or beef baby food), telling him how great he is. He has always been super with this, but that is also his personality, very laid back. I don't know Moochie, so do not know if this will be easy to do by yourself or not, but there are great tips on the page I listed (felinecrf.org). Hope this will help. And fwiw, I've seen numbers such as these, with other cats on the list I recommended, and many times, those cats have been able to be helped and to improve with various therapies inc. fluids.
best wishes to you, please feel free to private message me any time,

 

[sicycat]

Jenn I'm so glad you posted here

Knowledge is power and I know you and Moochie can get through this.

 

[moochiebelle]

Moochie update

I actually think Moochie looks better already, but I'm trying not to get too excited. I volunteer at an animal shelter and I stopped by there yesterday to drop off some stuff, and let me tell you, when you have a sick pet, the best friends to have are those that volunteer/work for the animal shelter! The shelter's director hooked me up with a couple of smaller needles (#20) for the fluids, she said the ones the vet gave me (#18) were pretty big. She also gave me a can of food called a/d. She says they use it at the shelter for animals that won't eat, and most of those animals will eat it because of its consistency. I'm so glad she gave it to me, cuz even though I tried to get Moochie to eat her new NF food yesterday, she snubbed it, but I put down a little of the a/d food for her, and she actually tried a little bit. Then I offered it to her two more times last night and she's ate some each time, for a total of three times!

And granted, she didn't eat THAT much during each setting but just showing an interest in food and actually eating some all by herself three separate times in one evening is so great to me. And this morning, she really wasn't interested in either the NF or a/d so I offered Moochie her "regular" cat food and she ate the most I've seen her eat since she's been sick. (Still not her normal appetite but the quanities are improving, I think.) So hopefully this pattern with continue and I want to start blending in the NF food with her regular food so I can hopefully, eventually, get her eating just the NF.

But she's looking better to me, she greeted me at the door when I came home yesterday (something she's ALWAYS done but hasn't really done since she got sick) and she was actually waiting around the food bowls for food cuz it was dinnertime. She also seems much more alert, she's walking around more than she was before and just seems a little more herself... it's hard to explain but I'm seeing little things that are letting me know she's feeling better.

And I administered the sub-q fluid all by myself! Well, my mom was on hand last night for my first solo attempt, cuz I wasn't sure how Moochie (or I) would react, but I held her in my lap and putting the needle in wasn't as bad as I thought. And Moochie didn't even flinch when I put the needle in her (she's such a good kitty

) There were a few times when I could feel her pushing like the wanted to get up and walk away, but I just held her firmly in my lap and petted her and talked kitty-talk to her. This morning's dosage went smoothly, too. So I'm glad I'm over that hurdle.

I like what I'm seeing so far, but I'm trying not to get my hopes up until I see her eating a little more and see how she does the next few days.

 

[pat]

Originally posted by moochiebelle
Moochie update

I actually think Moochie looks better already,

And I administered the sub-q fluid all by myself! Well, my mom was on hand last night for my first solo attempt, cuz I wasn't sure how Moochie (or I) would react, but I held her in my lap and putting the needle in wasn't as bad as I thought. And Moochie didn't even flinch when I put the needle in her (she's such a good kitty

) There were a few times when I could feel her pushing like the wanted to get up and walk away, but I just held her firmly in my lap and petted her and talked kitty-talk to her. This morning's dosage went smoothly, too. So I'm glad I'm over that hurdle.

Congratulations! We use Terumo 20's...Patrick likes them much better than monoject 18's!!

 

[tuxedokitties]

Hi Jenny,
It's good to hear that Moochie's beginning to perk up, and that you're doing OK w/the fluids. I'm glad you've joined the board!

 

[momofmany]

Hi Moochiebelle!

Bogart gets his sub-q's as he lays across my chest - his legs in my lap and his arms over my shoulder. He buries his face in my hair, which gives him comfort. He fights me everytime (it's the needle stick that he hates), so I hold him close while my husband sticks him and watches the fluid levels. The vet suggested that we move the needle at least once during the process so that not too much fluid builds up in a single place. The online sights all call for a new needle for each stick, but the vet said it was OK to use the needle for a single session, even though I stick him twice.

Because Bogart HATES the needle stick so much, we pursued getting the catheter in his neck. No stick with this, you uncap the catheter and put in the fluids directly. While the process to give him fluids was great (he purred and licked me the entire time), he HATED the catheter in his neck all the time, and actually manage to rip it out of his own back. I recommend that you don't do this if given the option.

By the way, check with your vet on the A/D. My vet recommends it for weaning formula and for my geriatric cat who has severe gum problems. I believe it is too high in protein for a CRF cat and hard for their system to breakdown. On the other hand, if it's the only thing that your baby will eat, what is worse, starving or eating something that isn't the best for him? My Bogart only likes Science Diet Maintenance and a few laps of wet food gravy, so that is what he gets. If I serve any other food to him he won't eat at all. While it might shorten his life a little, he is happy living it.

 

[sicycat]

Moochie is not doing very well. She's not eating much on her own. Jenny is going to take her to a different vet but she doesnt feel this is a way to live, and I cant really blame her

 

[sicycat]

Moochie's gone

 

[tuxedokitties]

I am so sorry, Sicy!
Please give my sympathy to Jenny. I'm sure she did her best, but it was just her time to go. I'm so very sorry.