Advice on Cat Introductions - Feeling a Bit Lost

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Furmama22

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"I was thinking about it yesterday and I realized one other fear too - that somehow they just won't get along ever and I'll have to rehome Florie." - I forgot that one as well because I already put that to bed. :/ Maybe that is a .0000000001% risk.

"That's the real fear at the bottom of this whole thing." - Ok, that is good to know. I personally think we passed that risk a long time ago but we need to prove that to you. Good to know.

"I love her too much to have that happen! :) " - Agreed!!! But honestly I don't think that is anywhere on the radar. There is not one thing that makes me think that is anywhere near a possibility.

"Last night treat session was good - she came a little further out to get some treats." - GREAT!!!

" Hawthorne stayed focussed on his treats." - This tells us everything. If the above risk was anywhere near on the radar there is NO WAY this would be happening.

"They both ate breakfast together at the gate. I can't really get them closer than say, four feet (two feet on each side of the gate) but I figure that's ok. :) " - Totally fine. Not an issue at all. If they eat and all is good then it is positive.

"We're also trying to figure out a way to prevent her from jumping the gate in the hallway." - Ok, but honestly I would not worry too much about it. She needs to think about the risk vs reward. I actually want her to think more about that.

" That would give me some peace of mind," - Ok, I understand. BUT I do think it is best to keep it like it is for now if at all possible.

Is she with you in the office at all or is she in a different room (or Hawthorne?)?

" especially overnight" - So how is it now overnight?

"or when (in September) I have to go back to the office." - Or maybe we will be intro'd by then. ;) But I understand IF we get to that point then yes, we can do something to prevent her from jumping. BUT I am not sure that is something we are going to need to deal with.

"She seems to understand she can knock cardboard away" - Hahahahaha, yep, they do figure it out. Now, if she was that afraid of him...................

"so I'm trying to think of other options." - Ok

I do guess they will be sleeping and watching birds etc when you are gone but it is good to think of an option.

"Then I'll feel comfortable leaving her door open and doing gates up all of the time. " - Ok. I understand. I do think we'll have them intro'd by then but it is good to have a backup plan.

Who do you think is more worried, you or Florie?

I am again not reading anything to suggest any issues with them. We do need to get them out in the main room (her playing, them eating, or chasing treats (a form of playing), hanging out, etc). The hall is problematic because there is only one way of escape (well 2, through him or retreat). She is doing amazingly well there but it does make it harder. BUT they are doing great with it. I do think out in the main room will give a better setup.

How are they playing? If she can play in front of him and he watches that would be huge as well.

Hang in there. They are doing great. We are going to get there. :)
Thanks as always! :)

Yes I think I'm more worried than Florie, hahah. I'm doing my best. I went for a long bike ride yesterday - physical activity helps me feel calmer. Florie is on my work desk with me right now, dipping her paw into my mug to get the leftover oat milk.

Right now, out setup is going like this:
- breakfast at the gate around 7am with Florie in her room and Hawthorne out
- I close the door to Florie's room and she stays in there until 8:30am - Hawthorne gets to have full reign of the rest of the house
- at 8:30, Hawthorne goes into the French door room (just the gate up) and Florie comes up and has full reign of the house until 12:30 (they have their food puzzles and then usually she wanders around a bit, fusses at the gate a bit with Hawthorne, and sleeps in my lap in the office)
- at 12:30, she goes into our bedroom and I close the door (there is no gate on our room). She was going into the French door room for awhile, for scent exchanges, but she seems to like it better in our room. Much better windows. Hawthorne gets full reign again. He usually sleeps in the office (where I'm working) on her bed.
- at 4pm, I let Florie out of the bedroom and she goes into the main living room area, while Hawthorne stays in the hallway territory (so then I'm using the new hallway gate to divide the space).
- at 6ish, they have supper through the gate (I've swapped them back so now Florie is back in her room and Hawthorne has full reign of the house). Usually then I close the door again to Florie's room. That's typically the time I go for a walk or leave the house for a bit.
- at 8ish, I switch them again - Florie comes into the living room space and Hawthorne goes back into the 'hallway' territory.
- at 9ish we do before bed treats, face-to-face, and then Florie either goes into her own room (door closed) or (lately) into our room, door closed.

So really it's those last remaining pockets of time where the door is closed that I'm thinking about. That, and increasing face to face during mealtimes.

She will also play in front of him, but it's where he's in the French door room and she's in the living room. She really doesn't pay much attention to him at those times (other than the gate fussing) and he can kind of see her, through the legs of the table. She'll chase the toy no problem. I'll try to move a bit closer and see if that works.
 

calicosrspecial

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Thanks as always! :)

Yes I think I'm more worried than Florie, hahah. I'm doing my best. I went for a long bike ride yesterday - physical activity helps me feel calmer. Florie is on my work desk with me right now, dipping her paw into my mug to get the leftover oat milk.

Right now, out setup is going like this:
- breakfast at the gate around 7am with Florie in her room and Hawthorne out
- I close the door to Florie's room and she stays in there until 8:30am - Hawthorne gets to have full reign of the rest of the house
- at 8:30, Hawthorne goes into the French door room (just the gate up) and Florie comes up and has full reign of the house until 12:30 (they have their food puzzles and then usually she wanders around a bit, fusses at the gate a bit with Hawthorne, and sleeps in my lap in the office)
- at 12:30, she goes into our bedroom and I close the door (there is no gate on our room). She was going into the French door room for awhile, for scent exchanges, but she seems to like it better in our room. Much better windows. Hawthorne gets full reign again. He usually sleeps in the office (where I'm working) on her bed.
- at 4pm, I let Florie out of the bedroom and she goes into the main living room area, while Hawthorne stays in the hallway territory (so then I'm using the new hallway gate to divide the space).
- at 6ish, they have supper through the gate (I've swapped them back so now Florie is back in her room and Hawthorne has full reign of the house). Usually then I close the door again to Florie's room. That's typically the time I go for a walk or leave the house for a bit.
- at 8ish, I switch them again - Florie comes into the living room space and Hawthorne goes back into the 'hallway' territory.
- at 9ish we do before bed treats, face-to-face, and then Florie either goes into her own room (door closed) or (lately) into our room, door closed.

So really it's those last remaining pockets of time where the door is closed that I'm thinking about. That, and increasing face to face during mealtimes.

She will also play in front of him, but it's where he's in the French door room and she's in the living room. She really doesn't pay much attention to him at those times (other than the gate fussing) and he can kind of see her, through the legs of the table. She'll chase the toy no problem. I'll try to move a bit closer and see if that works.
"Thanks as always! :) " - You are very welcome.

"Yes I think I'm more worried than Florie, hahah." - I kinda figured. ;) Often we tend to be!! Unfortunately when we love so much we can be a bit too protective. We all have that challenge. :/ It is never easy.

"I'm doing my best." - I know, it is hard. Just do your best and try to keep an eye on the facts and only let facts support concern.

" I went for a long bike ride yesterday - physical activity helps me feel calmer." - Great!!!

" Florie is on my work desk with me right now, dipping her paw into my mug to get the leftover oat milk." - Hahahahaha, sounds like she is enjoying life!!!!

"Right now, out setup is going like this:" - Ok

"- breakfast at the gate around 7am with Florie in her room and Hawthorne out" - Ok

"- I close the door to Florie's room and she stays in there until 8:30am" - Ok. Think about maybe jsut having the gaes open. I know you are probably running around and need to do things etc but just think about it.

" - Hawthorne gets to have full reign of the rest of the house" - Great

"- at 8:30, Hawthorne goes into the French door room (just the gate up)" - Great!!!

" and Florie comes up and has full reign of the house until 12:30 (they have their food puzzles and then usually she wanders around a bit, fusses at the gate a bit with Hawthorne, and sleeps in my lap in the office)" - Sounds great.

"- at 12:30, she goes into our bedroom and I close the door (there is no gate on our room)." - Ok. Does she want to go in there or do you put her in there?

" She was going into the French door room for awhile, for scent exchanges, but she seems to like it better in our room." - Ok

" Much better windows." - Hahahaha, yes they do like the outdoors!!!

" Hawthorne gets full reign again. He usually sleeps in the office (where I'm working) on her bed." - Ok, great!!! Now if he disliked her so much would he sleep in her scent? ;)

"- at 4pm, I let Florie out of the bedroom and she goes into the main living room area, while Hawthorne stays in the hallway territory (so then I'm using the new hallway gate to divide the space)." - Ok. He does well? Or is he fussing to get out?

"- at 6ish, they have supper through the gate (I've swapped them back so now Florie is back in her room and Hawthorne has full reign of the house)." - Ok

" Usually then I close the door again to Florie's room. That's typically the time I go for a walk or leave the house for a bit." - Ok, that is fine.

"- at 8ish, I switch them again - Florie comes into the living room space and Hawthorne goes back into the 'hallway' territory." - And they do well or does Hawthorne fuss to come out?

"- at 9ish we do before bed treats, face-to-face," - Great

" and then Florie either goes into her own room (door closed) or (lately) into our room, door closed." - ok

"So really it's those last remaining pockets of time where the door is closed that I'm thinking about." - Ok. So for when you are gone and sleeping the door closed is fine. And since there is no gate in your room that is fine.

"That, and increasing face to face during mealtimes." - Yes

It actually sounds really good to me.

"She will also play in front of him," - :yess: :hyper: :clap2:

" but it's where he's in the French door room and she's in the living room." - Ok, that is fine. Would be interesting to see if she will when both are in the main area. If she would it would be great.

" She really doesn't pay much attention to him at those times" - VERY interesting. So she i trusting, accepting.

" (other than the gate fussing)" - I am thinking because she wants to interact/play with him.

" and he can kind of see her, through the legs of the table. She'll chase the toy no problem." - Ok, great

" I'll try to move a bit closer and see if that works. " - Sure, Or if she is at the gate see if a toy can get her attention.

All I am reading is positive. Honestly, I think they are accepting each other. They are pretty much there. We just need to take that final step, reinforce it, and finish it off. This is fantastic. :)
 
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Furmama22

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"Thanks as always! :) " - You are very welcome.

"Yes I think I'm more worried than Florie, hahah." - I kinda figured. ;) Often we tend to be!! Unfortunately when we love so much we can be a bit too protective. We all have that challenge. :/ It is never easy.

"I'm doing my best." - I know, it is hard. Just do your best and try to keep an eye on the facts and only let facts support concern.

" I went for a long bike ride yesterday - physical activity helps me feel calmer." - Great!!!

" Florie is on my work desk with me right now, dipping her paw into my mug to get the leftover oat milk." - Hahahahaha, sounds like she is enjoying life!!!!

"Right now, out setup is going like this:" - Ok

"- breakfast at the gate around 7am with Florie in her room and Hawthorne out" - Ok

"- I close the door to Florie's room and she stays in there until 8:30am" - Ok. Think about maybe jsut having the gaes open. I know you are probably running around and need to do things etc but just think about it.

" - Hawthorne gets to have full reign of the rest of the house" - Great

"- at 8:30, Hawthorne goes into the French door room (just the gate up)" - Great!!!

" and Florie comes up and has full reign of the house until 12:30 (they have their food puzzles and then usually she wanders around a bit, fusses at the gate a bit with Hawthorne, and sleeps in my lap in the office)" - Sounds great.

"- at 12:30, she goes into our bedroom and I close the door (there is no gate on our room)." - Ok. Does she want to go in there or do you put her in there?

" She was going into the French door room for awhile, for scent exchanges, but she seems to like it better in our room." - Ok

" Much better windows." - Hahahaha, yes they do like the outdoors!!!

" Hawthorne gets full reign again. He usually sleeps in the office (where I'm working) on her bed." - Ok, great!!! Now if he disliked her so much would he sleep in her scent? ;)

"- at 4pm, I let Florie out of the bedroom and she goes into the main living room area, while Hawthorne stays in the hallway territory (so then I'm using the new hallway gate to divide the space)." - Ok. He does well? Or is he fussing to get out?

"- at 6ish, they have supper through the gate (I've swapped them back so now Florie is back in her room and Hawthorne has full reign of the house)." - Ok

" Usually then I close the door again to Florie's room. That's typically the time I go for a walk or leave the house for a bit." - Ok, that is fine.

"- at 8ish, I switch them again - Florie comes into the living room space and Hawthorne goes back into the 'hallway' territory." - And they do well or does Hawthorne fuss to come out?

"- at 9ish we do before bed treats, face-to-face," - Great

" and then Florie either goes into her own room (door closed) or (lately) into our room, door closed." - ok

"So really it's those last remaining pockets of time where the door is closed that I'm thinking about." - Ok. So for when you are gone and sleeping the door closed is fine. And since there is no gate in your room that is fine.

"That, and increasing face to face during mealtimes." - Yes

It actually sounds really good to me.

"She will also play in front of him," - :yess: :hyper: :clap2:

" but it's where he's in the French door room and she's in the living room." - Ok, that is fine. Would be interesting to see if she will when both are in the main area. If she would it would be great.

" She really doesn't pay much attention to him at those times" - VERY interesting. So she i trusting, accepting.

" (other than the gate fussing)" - I am thinking because she wants to interact/play with him.

" and he can kind of see her, through the legs of the table. She'll chase the toy no problem." - Ok, great

" I'll try to move a bit closer and see if that works. " - Sure, Or if she is at the gate see if a toy can get her attention.

All I am reading is positive. Honestly, I think they are accepting each other. They are pretty much there. We just need to take that final step, reinforce it, and finish it off. This is fantastic. :)
Hello and Happy Saturday! Just a couple of quick updates/notes:

We did bedtime treats Thursday and Friday evening and Florie did well. She came out quite far on Thursday (from the hallway where she was sitting) and pretty far on Friday and then seemed content to follow the treats back into our bedroom, where she stays for the night.

Yesterday afternoon Hawthorne did do a bit of sneak thing while I was switching their rooms. He was in her room and I closed him in with the gate - sometimes he likes to hide under the bed. I let her out of our room and she walked very close to the gate, not realizing Hawthorne was there, and he ran right up to the gate in a charge/play/chase and she dashed down the hallway and let out a hiss. I think if the gate hadn't been there it would have been a chase. I didn't want to reward bullying, but I did want them to have a positive moment so I gave them both a bit of salmon treat on a plate and they ate close to the gate again, no problem. So it was not a big thing for Florie.

Hawthorne is continuing to do pretty well for the space swapping. He still doesn't like going in the French door room (well, he likes going in for his treat puzzles but he doesn't like STAYING in) but I use it in the morning because it's easier for me and my workday. :) In the afternoon and evening he goes into the 'hallway' territory and while he occasionally sits by the gate, he is much calmer - he just sleeps on Florie's bed, or her wall perch and generally waits more patiently for his chance to come out.

I'm also trying to play more with him. I found a bunch of toys he likes (da bird, da bee, da moth, da anything) - he bites them and carries them around, he chases them - he basically destroys them. But, I feel like if I can get a good routine (morning play before breakfast, and maybe evening play before bed), maybe he'll want to chase Florie less? He did enjoy his playtime. He ate his breakfast with a vigor!

My stepkids are here this weekend so the usual temporary pause will happen, and then Sunday night/Monday we'll go back. I'm also working up to doing supper together in the main room.

One of my questions is about exposure - I know we're trying to get them to see each other as often as possible but when they are in their separate territories and both go to take a nap, they don't see each other at all. For hours. They really only see each other during meals, or treat time, or when Hawthorne is in the French door room sitting by the gate. Is that still achieving any kind of densensitizing effect?
 

calicosrspecial

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Hello and Happy Saturday! Just a couple of quick updates/notes:

We did bedtime treats Thursday and Friday evening and Florie did well. She came out quite far on Thursday (from the hallway where she was sitting) and pretty far on Friday and then seemed content to follow the treats back into our bedroom, where she stays for the night.

Yesterday afternoon Hawthorne did do a bit of sneak thing while I was switching their rooms. He was in her room and I closed him in with the gate - sometimes he likes to hide under the bed. I let her out of our room and she walked very close to the gate, not realizing Hawthorne was there, and he ran right up to the gate in a charge/play/chase and she dashed down the hallway and let out a hiss. I think if the gate hadn't been there it would have been a chase. I didn't want to reward bullying, but I did want them to have a positive moment so I gave them both a bit of salmon treat on a plate and they ate close to the gate again, no problem. So it was not a big thing for Florie.

Hawthorne is continuing to do pretty well for the space swapping. He still doesn't like going in the French door room (well, he likes going in for his treat puzzles but he doesn't like STAYING in) but I use it in the morning because it's easier for me and my workday. :) In the afternoon and evening he goes into the 'hallway' territory and while he occasionally sits by the gate, he is much calmer - he just sleeps on Florie's bed, or her wall perch and generally waits more patiently for his chance to come out.

I'm also trying to play more with him. I found a bunch of toys he likes (da bird, da bee, da moth, da anything) - he bites them and carries them around, he chases them - he basically destroys them. But, I feel like if I can get a good routine (morning play before breakfast, and maybe evening play before bed), maybe he'll want to chase Florie less? He did enjoy his playtime. He ate his breakfast with a vigor!

My stepkids are here this weekend so the usual temporary pause will happen, and then Sunday night/Monday we'll go back. I'm also working up to doing supper together in the main room.

One of my questions is about exposure - I know we're trying to get them to see each other as often as possible but when they are in their separate territories and both go to take a nap, they don't see each other at all. For hours. They really only see each other during meals, or treat time, or when Hawthorne is in the French door room sitting by the gate. Is that still achieving any kind of densensitizing effect?
"Hello and Happy Saturday! Just a couple of quick updates/notes:" - Hello

"We did bedtime treats Thursday and Friday evening and Florie did well." - Great

" She came out quite far on Thursday (from the hallway where she was sitting) and pretty far on Friday and then seemed content to follow the treats back into our bedroom, where she stays for the night." - Perfect. That hallway is a tough place (one way in, one way out so not a lot of escape options) so really impressive she is doing so well.

"Yesterday afternoon Hawthorne did do a bit of sneak thing while I was switching their rooms. He was in her room and I closed him in with the gate - sometimes he likes to hide under the bed. " - Ok

I let her out of our room and she walked very close to the gate, not realizing Hawthorne was there, and he ran right up to the gate in a charge/play/chase and she dashed down the hallway and let out a hiss." - Ok. They will do that.

"I think if the gate hadn't been there it would have been a chase." - Probably.

"I didn't want to reward bullying, but I did want them to have a positive moment so I gave them both a bit of salmon treat on a plate and they ate close to the gate again, no problem. " - That is great.

"So it was not a big thing for Florie." - THAT tells us a lot!!! GREAT!!!

"Hawthorne is continuing to do pretty well for the space swapping." - Great

" He still doesn't like going in the French door room (well, he likes going in for his treat puzzles but he doesn't like STAYING in) but I use it in the morning because it's easier for me and my workday. :) " - Hahahaha, that is fine. He just wants to be out and about.

"In the afternoon and evening he goes into the 'hallway' territory and while he occasionally sits by the gate, he is much calmer - he just sleeps on Florie's bed, or her wall perch and generally waits more patiently for his chance to come out." - Perfect!!!

"I'm also trying to play more with him. I found a bunch of toys he likes (da bird, da bee, da moth, da anything) " - GREAT!!!! Cats tend to like those.

"- he bites them and carries them around, he chases them - he basically destroys them." - GREAT!!! Then feed treats or a meal after the play. This is really good to build confidence and to drain some energy. When we do the main room we'll try to get him to play in front of Florie.

"But, I feel like if I can get a good routine (morning play before breakfast, and maybe evening play before bed), maybe he'll want to chase Florie less?" - Agreed though I do think the chase is just play. So playing with a toy instead of her will be wonderful.

"He did enjoy his playtime. He ate his breakfast with a vigor!" - AWESOME!!! THIS is a BIG DEAL!!!

"My stepkids are here this weekend so the usual temporary pause will happen, and then Sunday night/Monday we'll go back." - Totally fine.

" I'm also working up to doing supper together in the main room." - GREAT!!!! IF he is playing a toy might make it even more likely to go well.

One of my questions is about exposure - I know we're trying to get them to see each other as often as possible but when they are in their separate territories and both go to take a nap, they don't see each other at all. For hours. They really only see each other during meals, or treat time, or when Hawthorne is in the French door room sitting by the gate." - That is fine. Not an issue at all.

" Is that still achieving any kind of densensitizing effect? " - ABSOLUTELY!!! He fact they can go and sleep and not worry about the other cat tells us they are already pretty much desensitized (or accepting).

Sounds really good. I LOVE that he is playing. If he choses play over her it is fantastic. They are sooooo close and even closer now!!! GREAT JOB!!!!
 
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Furmama22

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"Hello and Happy Saturday! Just a couple of quick updates/notes:" - Hello

"We did bedtime treats Thursday and Friday evening and Florie did well." - Great

" She came out quite far on Thursday (from the hallway where she was sitting) and pretty far on Friday and then seemed content to follow the treats back into our bedroom, where she stays for the night." - Perfect. That hallway is a tough place (one way in, one way out so not a lot of escape options) so really impressive she is doing so well.

"Yesterday afternoon Hawthorne did do a bit of sneak thing while I was switching their rooms. He was in her room and I closed him in with the gate - sometimes he likes to hide under the bed. " - Ok

I let her out of our room and she walked very close to the gate, not realizing Hawthorne was there, and he ran right up to the gate in a charge/play/chase and she dashed down the hallway and let out a hiss." - Ok. They will do that.

"I think if the gate hadn't been there it would have been a chase." - Probably.

"I didn't want to reward bullying, but I did want them to have a positive moment so I gave them both a bit of salmon treat on a plate and they ate close to the gate again, no problem. " - That is great.

"So it was not a big thing for Florie." - THAT tells us a lot!!! GREAT!!!

"Hawthorne is continuing to do pretty well for the space swapping." - Great

" He still doesn't like going in the French door room (well, he likes going in for his treat puzzles but he doesn't like STAYING in) but I use it in the morning because it's easier for me and my workday. :) " - Hahahaha, that is fine. He just wants to be out and about.

"In the afternoon and evening he goes into the 'hallway' territory and while he occasionally sits by the gate, he is much calmer - he just sleeps on Florie's bed, or her wall perch and generally waits more patiently for his chance to come out." - Perfect!!!

"I'm also trying to play more with him. I found a bunch of toys he likes (da bird, da bee, da moth, da anything) " - GREAT!!!! Cats tend to like those.

"- he bites them and carries them around, he chases them - he basically destroys them." - GREAT!!! Then feed treats or a meal after the play. This is really good to build confidence and to drain some energy. When we do the main room we'll try to get him to play in front of Florie.

"But, I feel like if I can get a good routine (morning play before breakfast, and maybe evening play before bed), maybe he'll want to chase Florie less?" - Agreed though I do think the chase is just play. So playing with a toy instead of her will be wonderful.

"He did enjoy his playtime. He ate his breakfast with a vigor!" - AWESOME!!! THIS is a BIG DEAL!!!

"My stepkids are here this weekend so the usual temporary pause will happen, and then Sunday night/Monday we'll go back." - Totally fine.

" I'm also working up to doing supper together in the main room." - GREAT!!!! IF he is playing a toy might make it even more likely to go well.

One of my questions is about exposure - I know we're trying to get them to see each other as often as possible but when they are in their separate territories and both go to take a nap, they don't see each other at all. For hours. They really only see each other during meals, or treat time, or when Hawthorne is in the French door room sitting by the gate." - That is fine. Not an issue at all.

" Is that still achieving any kind of densensitizing effect? " - ABSOLUTELY!!! He fact they can go and sleep and not worry about the other cat tells us they are already pretty much desensitized (or accepting).

Sounds really good. I LOVE that he is playing. If he choses play over her it is fantastic. They are sooooo close and even closer now!!! GREAT JOB!!!!
Hi C calicosrspecial !

Here are my few little updates from the weekend. :)

Saturday night I fed them at the gate (her in her room, him out in the hallway) and at the end of the meal, she went to the gate and looked like she was about to jump it, even though he was still there eating supper. He noticed and went right up to the gate to try to bonk her, she growled and pulled back (but didn't run) but then I think I interfered by clapping my hands (to get him away from the gate) instead of using more soothing 'it's ok' type tones, because then she ran away under the bed and he skulked off. I wish in those moments he would just let her be, although the idea of her hurtling over the gate and basically landing right beside him in a closed off hallway didn't sit well, hahah. :)

Then we did two face to face treats on Sunday, once my stepkids had left. For one, I opened her door and let her see Hawthorne, and then threw the treats to both and let her decide if she wanted to jump out or not. She eventually did jump out, although she still very much hangs back in the hallway. After treats were done, I guided Hawthorne to his room (with more treats) and closed the gate and she got to stay out.

The second treat session we did in the main room (no hallway) - she was in the middle of the room and Hawthorne was with me closer to one of the walls. He was fine and went after his treats. She was more cautious and did eventually go for the treats, but very gently. The one flaw with this set up is that at the end of the session she did not want to be guided back to her room (either because she was scared of Hawthorne or because she just didn't want to go), so she walked and kind of sat/hid behind the coffee table. Her body language is very cautious when she knows he's out. As usual, I kind of was like "oh god, what now?" and led him into his room and closed the gate. Then we gave her a few more minutes out and then carried her back to her room.

She definitely continues to be keen to be out of her room.

My partner is working late a lot this week so I will continue with treat times myself (where I can) and I might try some face to face meals. The reality is if a chase is going to happen, we're neither of us fast enough to catch it anyways, so I suppose it doesn't entirely matter if it's just me doing the face-to-face. :) I must conquer my fears!
 

calicosrspecial

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Hi C calicosrspecial !

Here are my few little updates from the weekend. :)

Saturday night I fed them at the gate (her in her room, him out in the hallway) and at the end of the meal, she went to the gate and looked like she was about to jump it, even though he was still there eating supper. He noticed and went right up to the gate to try to bonk her, she growled and pulled back (but didn't run) but then I think I interfered by clapping my hands (to get him away from the gate) instead of using more soothing 'it's ok' type tones, because then she ran away under the bed and he skulked off. I wish in those moments he would just let her be, although the idea of her hurtling over the gate and basically landing right beside him in a closed off hallway didn't sit well, hahah. :)

Then we did two face to face treats on Sunday, once my stepkids had left. For one, I opened her door and let her see Hawthorne, and then threw the treats to both and let her decide if she wanted to jump out or not. She eventually did jump out, although she still very much hangs back in the hallway. After treats were done, I guided Hawthorne to his room (with more treats) and closed the gate and she got to stay out.

The second treat session we did in the main room (no hallway) - she was in the middle of the room and Hawthorne was with me closer to one of the walls. He was fine and went after his treats. She was more cautious and did eventually go for the treats, but very gently. The one flaw with this set up is that at the end of the session she did not want to be guided back to her room (either because she was scared of Hawthorne or because she just didn't want to go), so she walked and kind of sat/hid behind the coffee table. Her body language is very cautious when she knows he's out. As usual, I kind of was like "oh god, what now?" and led him into his room and closed the gate. Then we gave her a few more minutes out and then carried her back to her room.

She definitely continues to be keen to be out of her room.

My partner is working late a lot this week so I will continue with treat times myself (where I can) and I might try some face to face meals. The reality is if a chase is going to happen, we're neither of us fast enough to catch it anyways, so I suppose it doesn't entirely matter if it's just me doing the face-to-face. :) I must conquer my fears!
"Hi C calicosrspecial C calicosrspecial ! " - Hi!!! :)

"Here are my few little updates from the weekend. :) "- Great

"Saturday night I fed them at the gate (her in her room, him out in the hallway)" - Great

" and at the end of the meal, she went to the gate and looked like she was about to jump it, even though he was still there eating supper." - WOW!!! She is doing well!!!

" He noticed and went right up to the gate to try to bonk her," - Hahahahaha, ok

" she growled and pulled back (but didn't run)" - Great. What did he do?

" but then I think I interfered by clapping my hands (to get him away from the gate) instead of using more soothing 'it's ok' type tones," - Ok, that is fine.

" because then she ran away under the bed and he skulked off. " - Ok

"I wish in those moments he would just let her be," - True. :/ But they are cats. :/

"although the idea of her hurtling over the gate and basically landing right beside him in a closed off hallway didn't sit well, hahah. :) " - Hahahaha, true BUT she did know he was there............................

It is easy to panic but they need to face each other as well. So it is really an art, we want them to encounter each other, face their "issues" and then chose good over bad. BUT it is hard. IF you can get Hawthorne to walk away from the gate THAT would be a HUGE win. With that said, I think that went absolutely fine and tells me they are doing just fine. I actually kinda love she was thining about jumping the gate. Tells me she is way better off than I think we realize.

"Then we did two face to face treats on Sunday, once my stepkids had left." - Great

" For one, I opened her door and let her see Hawthorne, and then threw the treats to both and let her decide if she wanted to jump out or not. She eventually did jump out, although she still very much hangs back in the hallway." - GREAT!!! They really do love that. I am not at all bothered by her hanging back. That is a tough spot for a cat (not many "escape routes") so that is really good.

"After treats were done, I guided Hawthorne to his room (with more treats) and closed the gate and she got to stay out." _ PERFECT!!! So she sees him walking away and being good. PERFECT!!

"The second treat session we did in the main room (no hallway) - she was in the middle of the room and Hawthorne was with me closer to one of the walls." - AWESOME!!!

" He was fine and went after his treats." - :yess: :hyper: :clap2: GRETA JOB HAWTHORNE!!! This tells me he has no bad intent. He choses treats over her. THAT is a big deal!!! :) LOVE IT!!

"She was more cautious and did eventually go for the treats, but very gently." - Ok, that is absolutely fine. She is going at her pace and once she realizes he is not worried about her she will gain that confidence AND then that confidence will deter any chases/attacks, etc.

" The one flaw with this set up is that at the end of the session she did not want to be guided back to her room (either because she was scared of Hawthorne or because she just didn't want to go), so she walked and kind of sat/hid behind the coffee table." - Hahahaha, oh Florie. I suspect it is the latter (she didn't want to go into her room).

"Her body language is very cautious when she knows he's out." - Yes but that will change in time if he isn't messing with her. As long as he is being good that is not an issue at all.

" As usual, I kind of was like "oh god, what now?" " - Oh, I know. Here is a good opportunity to see if you can "hang out" with them if at all possible. I do think she is telling us she is mostly ok with him and he with her. The key is to find that balance of letting them be there while still maintaining positivity. :/

"and led him into his room and closed the gate." - Ok

" Then we gave her a few more minutes out and then carried her back to her room." - Ok. Well, I am guessing she knew he was gone at that point so I do think she just didn't want to go back in (which I actually like because she says "I want this territory and he is not stopping me").

"She definitely continues to be keen to be out of her room." - A great sign of her building confidence.

"My partner is working late a lot this week so I will continue with treat times myself (where I can)" - Ok

" and I might try some face to face meals." - Sounds good.

" The reality is if a chase is going to happen, we're neither of us fast enough to catch it anyways, so I suppose it doesn't entirely matter if it's just me doing the face-to-face. :) " - Hahahaha, I guess that is one way to look at it. BUT I guess since the last face to face went so well not sure the fears will be realized. Just keep one of them (Hawthorne busy, focused, distracted), let her do her thing, and then end it on a positive.

"I must conquer my fears! " - :) GREAT thinking!!!

Just keep your eye on the body language, distractability of Hawthorne, etc. Focus on him, let her do her thing, maybe chase a treat.

Sounds like a great weekend!! And even more impressive is the kids were around and they did great. A little change and they still do great is great.

:) GREAT JOB!!!!
 
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Furmama22

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"Hi C calicosrspecial C calicosrspecial ! " - Hi!!! :)

"Here are my few little updates from the weekend. :) "- Great

"Saturday night I fed them at the gate (her in her room, him out in the hallway)" - Great

" and at the end of the meal, she went to the gate and looked like she was about to jump it, even though he was still there eating supper." - WOW!!! She is doing well!!!

" He noticed and went right up to the gate to try to bonk her," - Hahahahaha, ok

" she growled and pulled back (but didn't run)" - Great. What did he do?

" but then I think I interfered by clapping my hands (to get him away from the gate) instead of using more soothing 'it's ok' type tones," - Ok, that is fine.

" because then she ran away under the bed and he skulked off. " - Ok

"I wish in those moments he would just let her be," - True. :/ But they are cats. :/

"although the idea of her hurtling over the gate and basically landing right beside him in a closed off hallway didn't sit well, hahah. :) " - Hahahaha, true BUT she did know he was there............................

It is easy to panic but they need to face each other as well. So it is really an art, we want them to encounter each other, face their "issues" and then chose good over bad. BUT it is hard. IF you can get Hawthorne to walk away from the gate THAT would be a HUGE win. With that said, I think that went absolutely fine and tells me they are doing just fine. I actually kinda love she was thining about jumping the gate. Tells me she is way better off than I think we realize.

"Then we did two face to face treats on Sunday, once my stepkids had left." - Great

" For one, I opened her door and let her see Hawthorne, and then threw the treats to both and let her decide if she wanted to jump out or not. She eventually did jump out, although she still very much hangs back in the hallway." - GREAT!!! They really do love that. I am not at all bothered by her hanging back. That is a tough spot for a cat (not many "escape routes") so that is really good.

"After treats were done, I guided Hawthorne to his room (with more treats) and closed the gate and she got to stay out." _ PERFECT!!! So she sees him walking away and being good. PERFECT!!

"The second treat session we did in the main room (no hallway) - she was in the middle of the room and Hawthorne was with me closer to one of the walls." - AWESOME!!!

" He was fine and went after his treats." - :yess: :hyper: :clap2: GRETA JOB HAWTHORNE!!! This tells me he has no bad intent. He choses treats over her. THAT is a big deal!!! :) LOVE IT!!

"She was more cautious and did eventually go for the treats, but very gently." - Ok, that is absolutely fine. She is going at her pace and once she realizes he is not worried about her she will gain that confidence AND then that confidence will deter any chases/attacks, etc.

" The one flaw with this set up is that at the end of the session she did not want to be guided back to her room (either because she was scared of Hawthorne or because she just didn't want to go), so she walked and kind of sat/hid behind the coffee table." - Hahahaha, oh Florie. I suspect it is the latter (she didn't want to go into her room).

"Her body language is very cautious when she knows he's out." - Yes but that will change in time if he isn't messing with her. As long as he is being good that is not an issue at all.

" As usual, I kind of was like "oh god, what now?" " - Oh, I know. Here is a good opportunity to see if you can "hang out" with them if at all possible. I do think she is telling us she is mostly ok with him and he with her. The key is to find that balance of letting them be there while still maintaining positivity. :/

"and led him into his room and closed the gate." - Ok

" Then we gave her a few more minutes out and then carried her back to her room." - Ok. Well, I am guessing she knew he was gone at that point so I do think she just didn't want to go back in (which I actually like because she says "I want this territory and he is not stopping me").

"She definitely continues to be keen to be out of her room." - A great sign of her building confidence.

"My partner is working late a lot this week so I will continue with treat times myself (where I can)" - Ok

" and I might try some face to face meals." - Sounds good.

" The reality is if a chase is going to happen, we're neither of us fast enough to catch it anyways, so I suppose it doesn't entirely matter if it's just me doing the face-to-face. :) " - Hahahaha, I guess that is one way to look at it. BUT I guess since the last face to face went so well not sure the fears will be realized. Just keep one of them (Hawthorne busy, focused, distracted), let her do her thing, and then end it on a positive.

"I must conquer my fears! " - :) GREAT thinking!!!

Just keep your eye on the body language, distractability of Hawthorne, etc. Focus on him, let her do her thing, maybe chase a treat.

Sounds like a great weekend!! And even more impressive is the kids were around and they did great. A little change and they still do great is great.

:) GREAT JOB!!!!
Good morning! I have a bigger update from last night. I was able to have them in a room together for about 25 minutes BUT it was super tense the entire time, hahaha. Here's what happened. Let me know if I went about it the wrong way.

I was the only one home, and I thought - well, let's see what happens. Can't be worse than torturing myself thinking about it!

So, I gave her some treats on her new cat tree, which is much higher than our former cat tree, and I know she likes it up there. Also, it sits right next to the fireplace mantel, so if she wanted an 'escape' she could have one. Once she was munching away at the top, I let Hawthorne out and gave him treats and moved him into the middle of the room so he could see her, and her him. The minute he spotted her, he slunk right down and wanted to go right over (and theoretically start climbing the tree to get to her). It didn't seem like super friendly 'let's play' body language or even "hey I'm curious". It wasn't overtly aggressive, either, but let's call it direct. I blocked him with some cardboard which he did not like - he made this frustrated meow and then hissed at me/the cardboard. Then he went under a chair at the kitchen table and crouched there.

She stayed on top of her tree and growled. They both stared at each other for awhile, which I tried to distract when I could. I gave her treats on her tree and gave him treats under the chair. Initially neither wanted to eat the treats. I also tried to distract him with a toy, but no dice. It just bounced off his head.

So, I basically sat in-between them with my carboard in hand, and tried to talk to them in loving voices, and tried not to panic about how I would get out of this situation. I didn't want to pick her up off the tree, and he was not in an approachable mood. He was scared/tense like at the vet. So we waited. And waited. Eventually they stopped staring. Both had...stress faces, though. Like, the kind of squinty anxious faces they sometimes get. He calmed a bit and lay under the chair, although I could tell he was still tense.

Then, after 20 or 25 minutes, I heard a little crunch crunch - he was starting to eat the treats I had thrown before that were ignored. She also ate a couple while on the tree, though not many.

So I had the bright idea to lay a little trail of treats for him out from under the kitchen table chair, away from her, and towards the French door room with the gate. Little by little he gained the courage, and when he finally went in his room, I closed the gate. Once she realized he was away, she came down off the tree and sat with me a bit in an armchair.

I tried to spend time with both of them last night to make sure they were fine. This morning we seem to be back at the usual - breakfast together at the gate, treat puzzles, etc. Growling from her; crying at the gate from him.

I initially felt some elation that I had managed to end the tense situation off on a positive note or at least, no one getting hurt. Then I felt totally dejected - it was SO tense between them. If she had come off the tree, it would have been game over (for a chase, at least). And it isn't like he went about his business grooming or other. He was totally tense/scared too. So that made me feel exhausted - about how many more mini-steps there will be in what I thought was the last step.

And I felt guilt again about trying to get two cats to get along who obviously are uncomfortable with each other and who seem just as happy alone. But I suppose I have felt that at each step and we have made it through those. We just need lots more time.
 

calicosrspecial

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Good morning! I have a bigger update from last night. I was able to have them in a room together for about 25 minutes BUT it was super tense the entire time, hahaha. Here's what happened. Let me know if I went about it the wrong way.

I was the only one home, and I thought - well, let's see what happens. Can't be worse than torturing myself thinking about it!

So, I gave her some treats on her new cat tree, which is much higher than our former cat tree, and I know she likes it up there. Also, it sits right next to the fireplace mantel, so if she wanted an 'escape' she could have one. Once she was munching away at the top, I let Hawthorne out and gave him treats and moved him into the middle of the room so he could see her, and her him. The minute he spotted her, he slunk right down and wanted to go right over (and theoretically start climbing the tree to get to her). It didn't seem like super friendly 'let's play' body language or even "hey I'm curious". It wasn't overtly aggressive, either, but let's call it direct. I blocked him with some cardboard which he did not like - he made this frustrated meow and then hissed at me/the cardboard. Then he went under a chair at the kitchen table and crouched there.

She stayed on top of her tree and growled. They both stared at each other for awhile, which I tried to distract when I could. I gave her treats on her tree and gave him treats under the chair. Initially neither wanted to eat the treats. I also tried to distract him with a toy, but no dice. It just bounced off his head.

So, I basically sat in-between them with my carboard in hand, and tried to talk to them in loving voices, and tried not to panic about how I would get out of this situation. I didn't want to pick her up off the tree, and he was not in an approachable mood. He was scared/tense like at the vet. So we waited. And waited. Eventually they stopped staring. Both had...stress faces, though. Like, the kind of squinty anxious faces they sometimes get. He calmed a bit and lay under the chair, although I could tell he was still tense.

Then, after 20 or 25 minutes, I heard a little crunch crunch - he was starting to eat the treats I had thrown before that were ignored. She also ate a couple while on the tree, though not many.

So I had the bright idea to lay a little trail of treats for him out from under the kitchen table chair, away from her, and towards the French door room with the gate. Little by little he gained the courage, and when he finally went in his room, I closed the gate. Once she realized he was away, she came down off the tree and sat with me a bit in an armchair.

I tried to spend time with both of them last night to make sure they were fine. This morning we seem to be back at the usual - breakfast together at the gate, treat puzzles, etc. Growling from her; crying at the gate from him.

I initially felt some elation that I had managed to end the tense situation off on a positive note or at least, no one getting hurt. Then I felt totally dejected - it was SO tense between them. If she had come off the tree, it would have been game over (for a chase, at least). And it isn't like he went about his business grooming or other. He was totally tense/scared too. So that made me feel exhausted - about how many more mini-steps there will be in what I thought was the last step.

And I felt guilt again about trying to get two cats to get along who obviously are uncomfortable with each other and who seem just as happy alone. But I suppose I have felt that at each step and we have made it through those. We just need lots more time.
"Good morning! I have a bigger update from last night." - Good morning. Great

" I was able to have them in a room together for about 25 minutes" - WOW!!! I see the "BUT" BUT 25 minutes is great!!

"BUT it was super tense the entire time, hahaha." - OK. BUT for at least 24 minutes I am guessing nothing happened. Let's see

" Here's what happened. Let me know if I went about it the wrong way." - Ok, sounds good.

"I was the only one home, and I thought - well, let's see what happens. Can't be worse than torturing myself thinking about it!" - Hahahaha, ok, Agreed!!!

"So, I gave her some treats on her new cat tree, which is much higher than our former cat tree, and I know she likes it up there." - Perfect

" Also, it sits right next to the fireplace mantel, so if she wanted an 'escape' she could have one." - Perfect. Just make sure it is not a fire risk in the future.

" Once she was munching away at the top, I let Hawthorne out and gave him treats and moved him into the middle of the room so he could see her, and her him." - Great

" The minute he spotted her, he slunk right down and wanted to go right over" - Ok

" (and theoretically start climbing the tree to get to her)." - Does he go up on the tree?

" It didn't seem like super friendly 'let's play' body language or even "hey I'm curious". It wasn't overtly aggressive, either, but let's call it direct." - Ok, nothing out of the ordinary. It is a new situation and with a cat above (strategic position) it can be intimidating.

" I blocked him with some cardboard" - Great

" which he did not like - he made this frustrated meow and then hissed at me/the cardboard." - Yep, they will do that.

" Then he went under a chair at the kitchen table and crouched there." - Ok. Did you sense he was a little afraid of her or the cardboard or getting into position to ambush?

"She stayed on top of her tree" - Great

" and growled." - Ok, expected.

" They both stared at each other for awhile," - Ok, expected.

" which I tried to distract when I could." - GREAT

"I gave her treats on her tree and gave him treats under the chair." - Great job

Did either cat look away from the ohter?

" Initially neither wanted to eat the treats." - - Ok :/ Not surprising

" I also tried to distract him with a toy, but no dice." - Ok

" It just bounced off his head." - Ok, try to make it like a mouse or a bird taking off. If you can get him to lock in on it that would be great.

"So, I basically sat in-between them with my carboard in hand, and tried to talk to them in loving voices," - GREAT!!!

" and tried not to panic about how I would get out of this situation." - Great

" I didn't want to pick her up off the tree, and he was not in an approachable mood." - EXACTLY GREAT JOB not doing anything like that.

" He was scared/tense like at the vet." - Poor guy. :/ But he has to confront his fears and she was not attacking him so it will build trust.

"So we waited. And waited." - Ok, good.

" Eventually they stopped staring." - :yess: :hyper: :clap2: THAT Is EXACTLY what we want!!!! Woohoooooooooo!!!

"Both had...stress faces, though. " - OK BUT so far nothing bad has happened which is positive.

"Like, the kind of squinty anxious faces they sometimes get." - Hmmmmmm, ok. Did either close their eyes to the other?

"He calmed a bit" - GREAT

" and lay under the chair, although I could tell he was still tense." - ok

"Then, after 20 or 25 minutes, I heard a little crunch crunch - he was starting to eat the treats I had thrown before that were ignored." - :yess::hyper::clap2: You did it!!! Woohooooooooooo

"She also ate a couple while on the tree, though not many." - GREAT!!! Not an issue on the amount. She ate!!!

"So I had the bright idea to lay a little trail of treats for him out from under the kitchen table chair, away from her, and towards the French door room with the gate. Little by little he gained the courage, and when he finally went in his room, I closed the gate." - PERFECT!!!!

" Once she realized he was away, she came down off the tree and sat with me a bit in an armchair." - PERFECT!!!

So far success!!! Correction, YOU HAVE SUCCESS - I just read the next line!!

"I tried to spend time with both of them last night to make sure they were fine. This morning we seem to be back at the usual - breakfast together at the gate, treat puzzles, etc. " - Perfect!!!

"Growling from her; crying at the gate from him." - Hahahaha, yep

"I initially felt some elation that I had managed to end the tense situation off on a positive note or at least, no one getting hurt." - AGREED!!! It was prefect!!

" Then I felt totally dejected" - Oh my, NOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!! There was no reason to be dejected at all. This was a major test and they passed!! I mean this "broke the fever". :)

" - it was SO tense between them." - It can be typically. BUT they need that test and learn the other doesn't want to kill them.

" If she had come off the tree, it would have been game over (for a chase, at least)." - Maybe. We don't really know. BUT she didn't this time BUT she will in time.

"And it isn't like he went about his business grooming or other. He was totally tense/scared too." - Yes BUT his fears were not realized. She didn't harm him at all AND he enjoyed good treats. Builds trust.

"So that made me feel exhausted" - Yes, it is exhausting.

" - about how many more mini-steps there will be in what I thought was the last step." - Oh not many. I think you are pretty much there.

"And I felt guilt again about trying to get two cats to get along who obviously are uncomfortable with each other" - Well, they sure ended well. No need to feel guilty about saving lives. They are going to be just fine.

"and who seem just as happy alone." - They will have that option in the future just with no borders.

" But I suppose I have felt that at each step and we have made it through those." - True

"We just need lots more time." - Totally disagree. Given what I read I think they are going to be fine VERY soon.

We just need to get them to experience each other so they can trust. This was a giant step forward!!! :purr:

I am ecstatic!!!
 
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  • #429

Furmama22

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"Good morning! I have a bigger update from last night." - Good morning. Great

" I was able to have them in a room together for about 25 minutes" - WOW!!! I see the "BUT" BUT 25 minutes is great!!

"BUT it was super tense the entire time, hahaha." - OK. BUT for at least 24 minutes I am guessing nothing happened. Let's see

" Here's what happened. Let me know if I went about it the wrong way." - Ok, sounds good.

"I was the only one home, and I thought - well, let's see what happens. Can't be worse than torturing myself thinking about it!" - Hahahaha, ok, Agreed!!!

"So, I gave her some treats on her new cat tree, which is much higher than our former cat tree, and I know she likes it up there." - Perfect

" Also, it sits right next to the fireplace mantel, so if she wanted an 'escape' she could have one." - Perfect. Just make sure it is not a fire risk in the future.

" Once she was munching away at the top, I let Hawthorne out and gave him treats and moved him into the middle of the room so he could see her, and her him." - Great

" The minute he spotted her, he slunk right down and wanted to go right over" - Ok

" (and theoretically start climbing the tree to get to her)." - Does he go up on the tree?

" It didn't seem like super friendly 'let's play' body language or even "hey I'm curious". It wasn't overtly aggressive, either, but let's call it direct." - Ok, nothing out of the ordinary. It is a new situation and with a cat above (strategic position) it can be intimidating.

" I blocked him with some cardboard" - Great

" which he did not like - he made this frustrated meow and then hissed at me/the cardboard." - Yep, they will do that.

" Then he went under a chair at the kitchen table and crouched there." - Ok. Did you sense he was a little afraid of her or the cardboard or getting into position to ambush?

"She stayed on top of her tree" - Great

" and growled." - Ok, expected.

" They both stared at each other for awhile," - Ok, expected.

" which I tried to distract when I could." - GREAT

"I gave her treats on her tree and gave him treats under the chair." - Great job

Did either cat look away from the ohter?

" Initially neither wanted to eat the treats." - - Ok :/ Not surprising

" I also tried to distract him with a toy, but no dice." - Ok

" It just bounced off his head." - Ok, try to make it like a mouse or a bird taking off. If you can get him to lock in on it that would be great.

"So, I basically sat in-between them with my carboard in hand, and tried to talk to them in loving voices," - GREAT!!!

" and tried not to panic about how I would get out of this situation." - Great

" I didn't want to pick her up off the tree, and he was not in an approachable mood." - EXACTLY GREAT JOB not doing anything like that.

" He was scared/tense like at the vet." - Poor guy. :/ But he has to confront his fears and she was not attacking him so it will build trust.

"So we waited. And waited." - Ok, good.

" Eventually they stopped staring." - :yess: :hyper: :clap2: THAT Is EXACTLY what we want!!!! Woohoooooooooo!!!

"Both had...stress faces, though. " - OK BUT so far nothing bad has happened which is positive.

"Like, the kind of squinty anxious faces they sometimes get." - Hmmmmmm, ok. Did either close their eyes to the other?

"He calmed a bit" - GREAT

" and lay under the chair, although I could tell he was still tense." - ok

"Then, after 20 or 25 minutes, I heard a little crunch crunch - he was starting to eat the treats I had thrown before that were ignored." - :yess::hyper::clap2: You did it!!! Woohooooooooooo

"She also ate a couple while on the tree, though not many." - GREAT!!! Not an issue on the amount. She ate!!!

"So I had the bright idea to lay a little trail of treats for him out from under the kitchen table chair, away from her, and towards the French door room with the gate. Little by little he gained the courage, and when he finally went in his room, I closed the gate." - PERFECT!!!!

" Once she realized he was away, she came down off the tree and sat with me a bit in an armchair." - PERFECT!!!

So far success!!! Correction, YOU HAVE SUCCESS - I just read the next line!!

"I tried to spend time with both of them last night to make sure they were fine. This morning we seem to be back at the usual - breakfast together at the gate, treat puzzles, etc. " - Perfect!!!

"Growling from her; crying at the gate from him." - Hahahaha, yep

"I initially felt some elation that I had managed to end the tense situation off on a positive note or at least, no one getting hurt." - AGREED!!! It was prefect!!

" Then I felt totally dejected" - Oh my, NOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!! There was no reason to be dejected at all. This was a major test and they passed!! I mean this "broke the fever". :)

" - it was SO tense between them." - It can be typically. BUT they need that test and learn the other doesn't want to kill them.

" If she had come off the tree, it would have been game over (for a chase, at least)." - Maybe. We don't really know. BUT she didn't this time BUT she will in time.

"And it isn't like he went about his business grooming or other. He was totally tense/scared too." - Yes BUT his fears were not realized. She didn't harm him at all AND he enjoyed good treats. Builds trust.

"So that made me feel exhausted" - Yes, it is exhausting.

" - about how many more mini-steps there will be in what I thought was the last step." - Oh not many. I think you are pretty much there.

"And I felt guilt again about trying to get two cats to get along who obviously are uncomfortable with each other" - Well, they sure ended well. No need to feel guilty about saving lives. They are going to be just fine.

"and who seem just as happy alone." - They will have that option in the future just with no borders.

" But I suppose I have felt that at each step and we have made it through those." - True

"We just need lots more time." - Totally disagree. Given what I read I think they are going to be fine VERY soon.

We just need to get them to experience each other so they can trust. This was a giant step forward!!! :purr:

I am ecstatic!!!
Hahaha amazing, thank you! Your positivity is always so uplifting! I was proud of myself for doing it although in the middle there I thought "well, gee, we're kind of stuck here now!" I had counted on his interest in snacks saving the day, which it did, although not until a lot longer than I pictured.

I'm glad to hear part of the reason he might have gone for her initially was because she was up high and it was a new thing for him to see her there. And, I think he hid under the kitchen table as a reaction a bit to the fear of the cardboard and the fear of the situation.

Do we keep trying this kind of thing again? I think she felt safer on the cat tree because she just stayed up there the whole time, which I was immensely grateful for. And we don't ever use the fireplace (it's open and wood burning, and I can't risk it with the cats) so the mantel is a safe escape for her, with no risk of fire.

If this is a step in the right direction, maybe we keep trying - her on the tree, Hawthorne out.

I should add that last night after I put her away, the first thing Hawthorne did when he was out was to follow her trail and try to get close to the cat tree (he wasn't brave enough to go to the top) and investigate it.
 

calicosrspecial

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"Hahaha amazing," - It exceeded my wildest expectations. It was a great session!!

" thank you! Your positivity is always so uplifting! " - You are welcome. Well, I am only positive based on what I read (if it is positive). If it was negative I would definitely tell you.

"I was proud of myself for doing it " - I am MASSIVELY PROUD of you!!

"although in the middle there I thought "well, gee, we're kind of stuck here now!" - Hahahaha, right?

"I had counted on his interest in snacks saving the day, which it did, although not until a lot longer than I pictured." - Exactly BUT it actually maybe worked out better (that is was a bit delayed). The fact they could be together for 25 minutes with no negativity is incredible.

"I'm glad to hear part of the reason he might have gone for her initially was because she was up high and it was a new thing for him to see her there." - Yes. She was in a position of power, strength so it can be intimidating. BUT she behaved which helped him trust her (and that is our goal).

"And, I think he hid under the kitchen table as a reaction a bit to the fear of the cardboard and the fear of the situation." - Yes, agreed. But again, his fear wasn't realized.

"Do we keep trying this kind of thing again?" - Absolutely. I would love to see them eating a meal together but this worked as well.

" I think she felt safer on the cat tree because she just stayed up there the whole time, which I was immensely grateful for." - Yes, agreed and agreed.

" And we don't ever use the fireplace (it's open and wood burning, and I can't risk it with the cats) so the mantel is a safe escape for her, with no risk of fire." - Great!!! :)

"If this is a step in the right direction, maybe we keep trying - her on the tree, Hawthorne out." - That works. Anything to get them to see each other and think "I know that cat, that cat is cool". If we have another session like this it is great. I would like to see them eating a meal on the floor together in time.

I should add that last night after I put her away, the first thing Hawthorne did when he was out was to follow her trail and try to get close to the cat tree (he wasn't brave enough to go to the top) and investigate it.
"Hahaha amazing," - It exceeded my wildest expectations. It was a great session!!

" thank you! Your positivity is always so uplifting! " - You are welcome. Well, I am only positive based on what I read (if it is positive). If it was negative I would definitely tell you.

"I was proud of myself for doing it " - I am MASSIVELY PROUD of you!!

"although in the middle there I thought "well, gee, we're kind of stuck here now!" - Hahahaha, right?

"I had counted on his interest in snacks saving the day, which it did, although not until a lot longer than I pictured." - Exactly BUT it actually maybe worked out better (that is was a bit delayed). The fact they could be together for 25 minutes with no negativity is incredible.

"I'm glad to hear part of the reason he might have gone for her initially was because she was up high and it was a new thing for him to see her there." - Yes. She was in a position of power, strength so it can be intimidating. BUT she behaved which helped him trust her (and that is our goal).

"And, I think he hid under the kitchen table as a reaction a bit to the fear of the cardboard and the fear of the situation." - Yes, agreed. But again, his fear wasn't realized.

"Do we keep trying this kind of thing again?" - Absolutely. I would love to see them eating a meal together but this worked as well.

" I think she felt safer on the cat tree because she just stayed up there the whole time, which I was immensely grateful for." - Yes, agreed and agreed.

" And we don't ever use the fireplace (it's open and wood burning, and I can't risk it with the cats) so the mantel is a safe escape for her, with no risk of fire." - Great!!! :)

"If this is a step in the right direction, maybe we keep trying - her on the tree, Hawthorne out." - That works. Anything to get them to see each other and think "I know that cat, that cat is cool". If we have another session like this it is great. I would like to see them eating a meal on the floor together in time. Or him playing or her playing and the other watching or in time even joining in.

"I should add that last night after I put her away, the first thing Hawthorne did when he was out was to follow her trail and try to get close to the cat tree (he wasn't brave enough to go to the top) and investigate it." - GREAT!!!! Exactly what I would expect from him and hope for. So he can smell her and think "I know that cat, I sleep with her scent. All is good!!!"

Then this morning they did well so they tell us it went well. :)

GREAT JOB!!!
 
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Furmama22

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"Hahaha amazing," - It exceeded my wildest expectations. It was a great session!!

" thank you! Your positivity is always so uplifting! " - You are welcome. Well, I am only positive based on what I read (if it is positive). If it was negative I would definitely tell you.

"I was proud of myself for doing it " - I am MASSIVELY PROUD of you!!

"although in the middle there I thought "well, gee, we're kind of stuck here now!" - Hahahaha, right?

"I had counted on his interest in snacks saving the day, which it did, although not until a lot longer than I pictured." - Exactly BUT it actually maybe worked out better (that is was a bit delayed). The fact they could be together for 25 minutes with no negativity is incredible.

"I'm glad to hear part of the reason he might have gone for her initially was because she was up high and it was a new thing for him to see her there." - Yes. She was in a position of power, strength so it can be intimidating. BUT she behaved which helped him trust her (and that is our goal).

"And, I think he hid under the kitchen table as a reaction a bit to the fear of the cardboard and the fear of the situation." - Yes, agreed. But again, his fear wasn't realized.

"Do we keep trying this kind of thing again?" - Absolutely. I would love to see them eating a meal together but this worked as well.

" I think she felt safer on the cat tree because she just stayed up there the whole time, which I was immensely grateful for." - Yes, agreed and agreed.

" And we don't ever use the fireplace (it's open and wood burning, and I can't risk it with the cats) so the mantel is a safe escape for her, with no risk of fire." - Great!!! :)

"If this is a step in the right direction, maybe we keep trying - her on the tree, Hawthorne out." - That works. Anything to get them to see each other and think "I know that cat, that cat is cool". If we have another session like this it is great. I would like to see them eating a meal on the floor together in time. Or him playing or her playing and the other watching or in time even joining in.

"I should add that last night after I put her away, the first thing Hawthorne did when he was out was to follow her trail and try to get close to the cat tree (he wasn't brave enough to go to the top) and investigate it." - GREAT!!!! Exactly what I would expect from him and hope for. So he can smell her and think "I know that cat, I sleep with her scent. All is good!!!"

Then this morning they did well so they tell us it went well. :)

GREAT JOB!!!
Good morning C calicosrspecial !

Nothing new to report. I've just done 'gate sessions' for the last day. They both seem fine/the usual.

I want to do more meals together in the same room. I know I've asked this before, so apologies. I know G GHsaltie is wondering about this too, over on that intro thread. :)

If I do a meal together in the same room, what happens with the meal is done? This is where the 'art over science' part comes in, yes? I imagine the ideal would be that one of them goes off and starts grooming or relaxing and I can just monitor them from there and distract as needed. So far our experience has been more than Hawthorne wants to chase her, or, that she runs downstairs to the basement as soon as the meal is done.

If she were to stay upstairs and say, hide behind the coffee table, what do we do then? My experience has also been that Hawthorne spots her and wants to try to get to her in creative ways, say by sneaking around behind the chairs that are near the coffee table and ambushing. He does not go and relax/groom.

I guess we don't know until we test it again. On the one hand, I suppose just eating together in the same room is a good goal. And if she runs to the basement after, then that's ok - at least they were in the same room for a bit.

If she stays and holds ground, that's where I'm less certain. When she's up on the tree, it's easier to stay between her and Hawthorne. When they're both moving around, I feel more...out of control. :) And I'm not always sure how to end the session. When he's fixed on her in the same room and she's moving around, he isn't distractible, and when she's moving too and scared of him, she also isn't distractible. So my options are to pick her up and leave the room, try to stay between them with the cardboard (easier said than done when both are running around), or...throw up my hands and say, to hell with it! hahah. Joking, but you know what I mean.

I guess I can just do my best. They have to learn how to live together, so I suppose it will take a little experimentation.
 

calicosrspecial

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Good morning C calicosrspecial !

Nothing new to report. I've just done 'gate sessions' for the last day. They both seem fine/the usual.

I want to do more meals together in the same room. I know I've asked this before, so apologies. I know G GHsaltie is wondering about this too, over on that intro thread. :)

If I do a meal together in the same room, what happens with the meal is done? This is where the 'art over science' part comes in, yes? I imagine the ideal would be that one of them goes off and starts grooming or relaxing and I can just monitor them from there and distract as needed. So far our experience has been more than Hawthorne wants to chase her, or, that she runs downstairs to the basement as soon as the meal is done.

If she were to stay upstairs and say, hide behind the coffee table, what do we do then? My experience has also been that Hawthorne spots her and wants to try to get to her in creative ways, say by sneaking around behind the chairs that are near the coffee table and ambushing. He does not go and relax/groom.

I guess we don't know until we test it again. On the one hand, I suppose just eating together in the same room is a good goal. And if she runs to the basement after, then that's ok - at least they were in the same room for a bit.

If she stays and holds ground, that's where I'm less certain. When she's up on the tree, it's easier to stay between her and Hawthorne. When they're both moving around, I feel more...out of control. :) And I'm not always sure how to end the session. When he's fixed on her in the same room and she's moving around, he isn't distractible, and when she's moving too and scared of him, she also isn't distractible. So my options are to pick her up and leave the room, try to stay between them with the cardboard (easier said than done when both are running around), or...throw up my hands and say, to hell with it! hahah. Joking, but you know what I mean.

I guess I can just do my best. They have to learn how to live together, so I suppose it will take a little experimentation.
"Good morning C calicosrspecial C calicosrspecial !" - Good morning!!

"Nothing new to report." - Ok

"I've just done 'gate sessions' for the last day." - Ok, bummer. I was hoping you did another session BUT I know you may have needed time to recharge.

" They both seem fine/the usual." - Great!!!

"I want to do more meals together in the same room." - GREAT!!!

" I know I've asked this before, so apologies. I know G GHsaltie G GHsaltie is wondering about this too, over on that intro thread. :) " - No need to apologize.

"If I do a meal together in the same room, what happens with the meal is done? This is where the 'art over science' part comes in, yes?" - Yes. We want to see if the cats chose to walk away, go groom and then maybe go sleep. Of course, that doesn't happen that often so we watch the body language, reassure, distract as needed. What I also do is make sure the cat that has the most desire to go towards the other and cause trouble eats slower so the other cat finishes first. I try to let it go as long as possible as long as it is positive and then guide a cat into a different, more protected territory and end it there.

So I would make sure Hawthorne is hungry and that he finishes after she does if possible. Then guide her into her room or a safe territory or if possible on her tree or hang out with her.

" I imagine the ideal would be that one of them goes off and starts grooming or relaxing and I can just monitor them from there and distract as needed." - Ahhhhh, YES!! You are exactly correct!!!

" So far our experience has been more than Hawthorne wants to chase her," - The one time. If he finishes after her then it may be less likely.

"or, that she runs downstairs to the basement as soon as the meal is done." - That is fine if she chooses that. As long as nothing negative happens and any fear she may have is not realized that is positive.

"If she were to stay upstairs and say, hide behind the coffee table, what do we do then?" - Distract Hawthorne and maybe even lead him into a different area and maybe use treats or a toy.

"My experience has also been that Hawthorne spots her and wants to try to get to her in creative ways, say by sneaking around behind the chairs that are near the coffee table and ambushing. " - Yes, I suspect he wants to sniff her or play with her or maybe bully her. If distraction can work at that point that would be great.

"He does not go and relax/groom." - No, :/ They often don't. It is too exciting to have another cat around (there is still a novelty aspect to the cat).

"I guess we don't know until we test it again." - True. My job is to make sure she is ready for anything. I think she is really close but still not 100%. So what we are doing is I think appropriate for where we are (well she is).

" On the one hand, I suppose just eating together in the same room is a good goal. And if she runs to the basement after, then that's ok - at least they were in the same room for a bit." - ABSOLUTELY!!!

"If she stays and holds ground, that's where I'm less certain." - That would be a big sign of confidence for her and might be enough to deter him from messing with her too much. But we would see. IF she would then cut and run it would be a chase THOUGH I am not convinced he would hurt her if he caught her.

"When she's up on the tree, it's easier to stay between her and Hawthorne." - Agreed

" When they're both moving around, I feel more...out of control. :) " - Yes this is where experience (and art) tends to come in. I know I could control them BUT I am used to situations like that. You do have to believe in their abilities to do their part as well.

"And I'm not always sure how to end the session. " - Use treats or a toy to guide them out into another territory. IF that doesn't work then use the cardboard to block the sight and then try to guide. And as you did just wait them out and bore them until they think "this isn't much fun" and chose something more fun (a treat or a toy).

"When he's fixed on her in the same room and she's moving around, he isn't distractible," - Yes, he is probably in a bit of hunting mode.

"and when she's moving too and scared of him, she also isn't distractible." - Yes, but usually when they are really scared they tend to move slow motion as to say "I am not meaning to be a threat".

" So my options are to pick her up and leave the room," - Last resort option.

" try to stay between them with the cardboard (easier said than done when both are running around), or..." - Yes. Just do your best. They do need to step up as well.

"throw up my hands and say, to hell with it! hahah. Joking, but you know what I mean." - :/ Well, I know what you mean but maybe this is the last resort. They need to be exposed to each other, to work it out, BUT in the most successful way possible. So try to de-escalate, distract. This is the tough part, I know how to do it but trying to communicate it is really hard. :/

"I guess I can just do my best." - AGREED!!! AND you are doing great!!!

" They have to learn how to live together," - They are already well on the way to learning to live together. Like 95%. So we just need that final 5% and the other day was a big step to closing that off.

"so I suppose it will take a little experimentation. " - Yes, exactly. It is reading them, try to make sure it is as positive as possible trying to minimize or avoid negatives. Not overthink it but go with them. We just don't want her to act like prey. So the more we reassure her and distract him the better. I thought they both did great the other night. If they did it once they can do it time and again.

I KNOW this is not a magic wand but if you do this, do your best, stay calm and confident I don't see any real issues. You are well on your way to success. The risks at this point are pretty low.

Hang in there. I know this is hard on you. :/ BUT you really are doing great.
 
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Furmama22

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"Good morning C calicosrspecial C calicosrspecial !" - Good morning!!

"Nothing new to report." - Ok

"I've just done 'gate sessions' for the last day." - Ok, bummer. I was hoping you did another session BUT I know you may have needed time to recharge.

" They both seem fine/the usual." - Great!!!

"I want to do more meals together in the same room." - GREAT!!!

" I know I've asked this before, so apologies. I know G GHsaltie G GHsaltie is wondering about this too, over on that intro thread. :) " - No need to apologize.

"If I do a meal together in the same room, what happens with the meal is done? This is where the 'art over science' part comes in, yes?" - Yes. We want to see if the cats chose to walk away, go groom and then maybe go sleep. Of course, that doesn't happen that often so we watch the body language, reassure, distract as needed. What I also do is make sure the cat that has the most desire to go towards the other and cause trouble eats slower so the other cat finishes first. I try to let it go as long as possible as long as it is positive and then guide a cat into a different, more protected territory and end it there.

So I would make sure Hawthorne is hungry and that he finishes after she does if possible. Then guide her into her room or a safe territory or if possible on her tree or hang out with her.

" I imagine the ideal would be that one of them goes off and starts grooming or relaxing and I can just monitor them from there and distract as needed." - Ahhhhh, YES!! You are exactly correct!!!

" So far our experience has been more than Hawthorne wants to chase her," - The one time. If he finishes after her then it may be less likely.

"or, that she runs downstairs to the basement as soon as the meal is done." - That is fine if she chooses that. As long as nothing negative happens and any fear she may have is not realized that is positive.

"If she were to stay upstairs and say, hide behind the coffee table, what do we do then?" - Distract Hawthorne and maybe even lead him into a different area and maybe use treats or a toy.

"My experience has also been that Hawthorne spots her and wants to try to get to her in creative ways, say by sneaking around behind the chairs that are near the coffee table and ambushing. " - Yes, I suspect he wants to sniff her or play with her or maybe bully her. If distraction can work at that point that would be great.

"He does not go and relax/groom." - No, :/ They often don't. It is too exciting to have another cat around (there is still a novelty aspect to the cat).

"I guess we don't know until we test it again." - True. My job is to make sure she is ready for anything. I think she is really close but still not 100%. So what we are doing is I think appropriate for where we are (well she is).

" On the one hand, I suppose just eating together in the same room is a good goal. And if she runs to the basement after, then that's ok - at least they were in the same room for a bit." - ABSOLUTELY!!!

"If she stays and holds ground, that's where I'm less certain." - That would be a big sign of confidence for her and might be enough to deter him from messing with her too much. But we would see. IF she would then cut and run it would be a chase THOUGH I am not convinced he would hurt her if he caught her.

"When she's up on the tree, it's easier to stay between her and Hawthorne." - Agreed

" When they're both moving around, I feel more...out of control. :) " - Yes this is where experience (and art) tends to come in. I know I could control them BUT I am used to situations like that. You do have to believe in their abilities to do their part as well.

"And I'm not always sure how to end the session. " - Use treats or a toy to guide them out into another territory. IF that doesn't work then use the cardboard to block the sight and then try to guide. And as you did just wait them out and bore them until they think "this isn't much fun" and chose something more fun (a treat or a toy).

"When he's fixed on her in the same room and she's moving around, he isn't distractible," - Yes, he is probably in a bit of hunting mode.

"and when she's moving too and scared of him, she also isn't distractible." - Yes, but usually when they are really scared they tend to move slow motion as to say "I am not meaning to be a threat".

" So my options are to pick her up and leave the room," - Last resort option.

" try to stay between them with the cardboard (easier said than done when both are running around), or..." - Yes. Just do your best. They do need to step up as well.

"throw up my hands and say, to hell with it! hahah. Joking, but you know what I mean." - :/ Well, I know what you mean but maybe this is the last resort. They need to be exposed to each other, to work it out, BUT in the most successful way possible. So try to de-escalate, distract. This is the tough part, I know how to do it but trying to communicate it is really hard. :/

"I guess I can just do my best." - AGREED!!! AND you are doing great!!!

" They have to learn how to live together," - They are already well on the way to learning to live together. Like 95%. So we just need that final 5% and the other day was a big step to closing that off.

"so I suppose it will take a little experimentation. " - Yes, exactly. It is reading them, try to make sure it is as positive as possible trying to minimize or avoid negatives. Not overthink it but go with them. We just don't want her to act like prey. So the more we reassure her and distract him the better. I thought they both did great the other night. If they did it once they can do it time and again.

I KNOW this is not a magic wand but if you do this, do your best, stay calm and confident I don't see any real issues. You are well on your way to success. The risks at this point are pretty low.

Hang in there. I know this is hard on you. :/ BUT you really are doing great.
Just a quick update that my partner was home early enough last night that we could do a treat session with the cats, face-to-face. Florie had been in the bedroom with me while I was Facetiming a friend, so she didn't get her usual amount outside in the main room.

She wasn't super interested in her treats (Hawthorne was, as usual) and didn't seem to want to leave the hallway. She kind of just ate them when they reached her. Then suddenly at the end of the session (I'm guessing she could kind of tell from my partner's movements that things were wrapping up) she decided to walk into the middle of the room and sit on my yoga mat. As if to say, 'I didn't get my full time out this evening so I'm not going anywhere.' Hawthorne didn't seem to notice (he was going for treats and kind of was behind the kitchen island) so I threw her a couple of treats there and she ate them. And he kept eating his. And then I was able to guide Hawthorne back into his room (he's the easier one to move, usually) and she went to sleep on one of the cat trees, having been successful in her bid to stay out longer. I gave her a bit more time out and then brought her back into the bedroom with us for the night.

So I know what we should have done is let is play out and see what happened, but we were both tired and it was late. Hahaha, always an excuse, I know. :) My partner should be home a bit more this weekend and we can then just hang out with them and see if we can extend the time a little.

Anyways, that's just the little update for now. :) I was happy to see that her desire to be out is helping her overcome her fears of Hawthorne.
 

calicosrspecial

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Just a quick update that my partner was home early enough last night that we could do a treat session with the cats, face-to-face. Florie had been in the bedroom with me while I was Facetiming a friend, so she didn't get her usual amount outside in the main room.

She wasn't super interested in her treats (Hawthorne was, as usual) and didn't seem to want to leave the hallway. She kind of just ate them when they reached her. Then suddenly at the end of the session (I'm guessing she could kind of tell from my partner's movements that things were wrapping up) she decided to walk into the middle of the room and sit on my yoga mat. As if to say, 'I didn't get my full time out this evening so I'm not going anywhere.' Hawthorne didn't seem to notice (he was going for treats and kind of was behind the kitchen island) so I threw her a couple of treats there and she ate them. And he kept eating his. And then I was able to guide Hawthorne back into his room (he's the easier one to move, usually) and she went to sleep on one of the cat trees, having been successful in her bid to stay out longer. I gave her a bit more time out and then brought her back into the bedroom with us for the night.

So I know what we should have done is let is play out and see what happened, but we were both tired and it was late. Hahaha, always an excuse, I know. :) My partner should be home a bit more this weekend and we can then just hang out with them and see if we can extend the time a little.

Anyways, that's just the little update for now. :) I was happy to see that her desire to be out is helping her overcome her fears of Hawthorne.
"Just a quick update that my partner was home early enough last night that we could do a treat session with the cats, face-to-face." - Great

" Florie had been in the bedroom with me while I was Facetiming a friend, so she didn't get her usual amount outside in the main room." - That is fine

"She wasn't super interested in her treats (Hawthorne was, as usual) and didn't seem to want to leave the hallway." - Ok

" She kind of just ate them when they reached her." - OK, it happens.

"Then suddenly at the end of the session (I'm guessing she could kind of tell from my partner's movements that things were wrapping up) she decided to walk into the middle of the room and sit on my yoga mat." - What?!?!?!?! Where was Hawthorne?

"As if to say, 'I didn't get my full time out this evening so I'm not going anywhere.' " - Hahahahaha

"Hawthorne didn't seem to notice (he was going for treats and kind of was behind the kitchen island)" - Interesting

" so I threw her a couple of treats there and she ate them. " - Great

"And he kept eating his." - Great

" And then I was able to guide Hawthorne back into his room (he's the easier one to move, usually) " - Did eh finally notice she was out? I am guessing he knew she was out there.

"and she went to sleep on one of the cat trees, having been successful in her bid to stay out longer." - FANTASTIC!!!

" I gave her a bit more time out and then brought her back into the bedroom with us for the night." - Perfect

"So I know what we should have done is let is play out and see what happened, but we were both tired and it was late. Hahaha, always an excuse, I know. :) " - Sure, maybe, BUT this was PERFECT!!!!

I think we are almost there!!! :yess: :hyper::clap2:

"My partner should be home a bit more this weekend and we can then just hang out with them and see if we can extend the time a little." - Sounds good but even if you can repeat this that would be great.

This is a huge step forward!!! "By George, I think we got it!!" ;)

"Anyways, that's just the little update for now. :) " - Little?!?!?!?!?! Hahahaha, this is HUGE!!!! :)

" I was happy to see that her desire to be out is helping her overcome her fears of Hawthorne." - EXACTLY!!! The reward is greater than the perceived risk!!! EXACTLY what we have been trying to achieve!!!

:yess::hyper::clap2::purr:
 
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Furmama22

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"Just a quick update that my partner was home early enough last night that we could do a treat session with the cats, face-to-face." - Great

" Florie had been in the bedroom with me while I was Facetiming a friend, so she didn't get her usual amount outside in the main room." - That is fine

"She wasn't super interested in her treats (Hawthorne was, as usual) and didn't seem to want to leave the hallway." - Ok

" She kind of just ate them when they reached her." - OK, it happens.

"Then suddenly at the end of the session (I'm guessing she could kind of tell from my partner's movements that things were wrapping up) she decided to walk into the middle of the room and sit on my yoga mat." - What?!?!?!?! Where was Hawthorne?

"As if to say, 'I didn't get my full time out this evening so I'm not going anywhere.' " - Hahahahaha

"Hawthorne didn't seem to notice (he was going for treats and kind of was behind the kitchen island)" - Interesting

" so I threw her a couple of treats there and she ate them. " - Great

"And he kept eating his." - Great

" And then I was able to guide Hawthorne back into his room (he's the easier one to move, usually) " - Did eh finally notice she was out? I am guessing he knew she was out there.

"and she went to sleep on one of the cat trees, having been successful in her bid to stay out longer." - FANTASTIC!!!

" I gave her a bit more time out and then brought her back into the bedroom with us for the night." - Perfect

"So I know what we should have done is let is play out and see what happened, but we were both tired and it was late. Hahaha, always an excuse, I know. :) " - Sure, maybe, BUT this was PERFECT!!!!

I think we are almost there!!! :yess: :hyper::clap2:

"My partner should be home a bit more this weekend and we can then just hang out with them and see if we can extend the time a little." - Sounds good but even if you can repeat this that would be great.

This is a huge step forward!!! "By George, I think we got it!!" ;)

"Anyways, that's just the little update for now. :) " - Little?!?!?!?!?! Hahahaha, this is HUGE!!!! :)

" I was happy to see that her desire to be out is helping her overcome her fears of Hawthorne." - EXACTLY!!! The reward is greater than the perceived risk!!! EXACTLY what we have been trying to achieve!!!

:yess::hyper::clap2::purr:
Two more updates!

Last night for bedtime treat session Florie did the same thing again - hung around in the hallway and then at the end was like "not going back in my room!" and walked into the living room. She kind of hid behind this cat scratcher thing. I think she has learned that if she does that, we then put HAWTHORNE away instead of her and she gets to stay out longer. So what we need now is to show her she CAN stay out but she has to do it WITH Hawthorne. She's a clever little stinker, that's for sure.

This morning we just spent another 20 minutes in the same room. She was on her tree, up at the top, so we let Hawthorne out of his room. It was better this time. He didn't make any runs at the tree; instead he kind of worked the perimeter of the room. He was ready to eat/chase treats but slowly (with some caution) and he occasionally wanted to lie/crouch somewhere he felt safe and watch her a bit on the tree. She got lots of treats on the tree too and ate them all. She only growled when she felt Hawthorne was moving in a new spot and she wasn't certain about it, but otherwise she stayed up on the tree and ate her treats and was a good girl.

They both did some staring but it was reasonably easy to break the stare with distraction. My partner tried to play with Hawthorne and while he didn't want to pounce/catch the toy he did watch it a bit, so that's something. He was a bit more ready to move around. My partner threw some treats for Hawthorne that led back into his bedroom (the French door room) and he went to get those, then we closed him back in. Florie then came off her tree and is grooming and preparing for a nap. Hawthorne is napping in his bed in the French door room.

We'll try the same thing again tomorrow - her on the tree, him out. I think that's a good combo for now. Granted, he has to learn to see her moving around and not chase her, but I guess we'll keep working on that during the evening treats, and maybe meal times.

We haven't done meals together but I'm working on that. I feel positive about today although I'm not so foolish as to think he still won't try to chase her, if the opportunity presents or if she happens to run. But I hope this was a confidence building anyways!

We will keep building on this!
 

calicosrspecial

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Two more updates!

Last night for bedtime treat session Florie did the same thing again - hung around in the hallway and then at the end was like "not going back in my room!" and walked into the living room. She kind of hid behind this cat scratcher thing. I think she has learned that if she does that, we then put HAWTHORNE away instead of her and she gets to stay out longer. So what we need now is to show her she CAN stay out but she has to do it WITH Hawthorne. She's a clever little stinker, that's for sure.

This morning we just spent another 20 minutes in the same room. She was on her tree, up at the top, so we let Hawthorne out of his room. It was better this time. He didn't make any runs at the tree; instead he kind of worked the perimeter of the room. He was ready to eat/chase treats but slowly (with some caution) and he occasionally wanted to lie/crouch somewhere he felt safe and watch her a bit on the tree. She got lots of treats on the tree too and ate them all. She only growled when she felt Hawthorne was moving in a new spot and she wasn't certain about it, but otherwise she stayed up on the tree and ate her treats and was a good girl.

They both did some staring but it was reasonably easy to break the stare with distraction. My partner tried to play with Hawthorne and while he didn't want to pounce/catch the toy he did watch it a bit, so that's something. He was a bit more ready to move around. My partner threw some treats for Hawthorne that led back into his bedroom (the French door room) and he went to get those, then we closed him back in. Florie then came off her tree and is grooming and preparing for a nap. Hawthorne is napping in his bed in the French door room.

We'll try the same thing again tomorrow - her on the tree, him out. I think that's a good combo for now. Granted, he has to learn to see her moving around and not chase her, but I guess we'll keep working on that during the evening treats, and maybe meal times.

We haven't done meals together but I'm working on that. I feel positive about today although I'm not so foolish as to think he still won't try to chase her, if the opportunity presents or if she happens to run. But I hope this was a confidence building anyways!

We will keep building on this!
"Two more updates!" - Great

"Last night for bedtime treat session Florie did the same thing again - hung around in the hallway and then at the end was like "not going back in my room!" and walked into the living room." - :yess: :hyper: :clap2: I LOVE that she views the reward as more favorable than the "risk".

"She kind of hid behind this cat scratcher thing." - Not an issue at all. IF he didn't attack her then it is totally fine.

" I think she has learned that if she does that, we then put HAWTHORNE away instead of her and she gets to stay out longer." - Hahahaha, maybe. I think she is figuring out that he isn't that bad and she can be where she wants to be.

"So what we need now is to show her she CAN stay out but she has to do it WITH Hawthorne." - EXACTLY!!!! :)

"She's a clever little stinker, that's for sure." - Hahahaha, yep. ;)

"This morning we just spent another 20 minutes in the same room." - GREAT!!!

" She was on her tree, up at the top, so we let Hawthorne out of his room." - GREAT!!! I LOVE that you let Hawthorne come in and she could watch him come in.

" It was better this time. He didn't make any runs at the tree;" - :yess::hyper::clap2: EXACTLY what we want.

"instead he kind of worked the perimeter of the room." - Ok, that is fine as long as she doesn't pounce, etc him.

" He was ready to eat/chase treats but slowly (with some caution) " - Totally fine again as long as she is behaving.

"and he occasionally wanted to lie/crouch somewhere he felt safe and watch her a bit on the tree." - GREAT!!!

" She got lots of treats on the tree too and ate them all." - Perfect!!

" She only growled when she felt Hawthorne was moving in a new spot and she wasn't certain about it, but otherwise she stayed up on the tree and ate her treats and was a good girl." - Perfect!!! And if a hiss is needed to keep it positive and he respects it it is totally fine.

"They both did some staring but it was reasonably easy to break the stare with distraction." - GREAT!!!

" My partner tried to play with Hawthorne and while he didn't want to pounce/catch the toy he did watch it a bit, so that's something." - Very good

" He was a bit more ready to move around. My partner threw some treats for Hawthorne that led back into his bedroom (the French door room) and he went to get those, " - Perfect!!!

"then we closed him back in." - Ok

" Florie then came off her tree and is grooming and preparing for a nap. Hawthorne is napping in his bed in the French door room." - Perfect

"We'll try the same thing again tomorrow - her on the tree, him out. I think that's a good combo for now." - Sounds great

"Granted, he has to learn to see her moving around and not chase her, but I guess we'll keep working on that during the evening treats, and maybe meal times." - Yes, I am not too worried, he will get there. He is going to trust her and that will help.

"We haven't done meals together but I'm working on that." - Great. I think they will eb ready when you are.

" I feel positive about today" - AGREED!!! I think we are almost there. :)

"although I'm not so foolish as to think he still won't try to chase her, if the opportunity presents or if she happens to run." - Well, maybe, but maybe not. I think he is accepting and fearing less. These past few face to face encounters have really shown us they are going to be just fine. This is the watershed moment. It is just the finishing details now. :)

"But I hope this was a confidence building anyways!" - Hope?!?!?!?!?! ;) IT WAS!!!!!! :)

"We will keep building on this! " - :cheerleader:

REALLY WELL DONE!!! I am SO PROUD of you, your partner, Florie and Hawthorne!!! :clap2:
 
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Furmama22

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"Two more updates!" - Great

"Last night for bedtime treat session Florie did the same thing again - hung around in the hallway and then at the end was like "not going back in my room!" and walked into the living room." - :yess: :hyper: :clap2: I LOVE that she views the reward as more favorable than the "risk".

"She kind of hid behind this cat scratcher thing." - Not an issue at all. IF he didn't attack her then it is totally fine.

" I think she has learned that if she does that, we then put HAWTHORNE away instead of her and she gets to stay out longer." - Hahahaha, maybe. I think she is figuring out that he isn't that bad and she can be where she wants to be.

"So what we need now is to show her she CAN stay out but she has to do it WITH Hawthorne." - EXACTLY!!!! :)

"She's a clever little stinker, that's for sure." - Hahahaha, yep. ;)

"This morning we just spent another 20 minutes in the same room." - GREAT!!!

" She was on her tree, up at the top, so we let Hawthorne out of his room." - GREAT!!! I LOVE that you let Hawthorne come in and she could watch him come in.

" It was better this time. He didn't make any runs at the tree;" - :yess::hyper::clap2: EXACTLY what we want.

"instead he kind of worked the perimeter of the room." - Ok, that is fine as long as she doesn't pounce, etc him.

" He was ready to eat/chase treats but slowly (with some caution) " - Totally fine again as long as she is behaving.

"and he occasionally wanted to lie/crouch somewhere he felt safe and watch her a bit on the tree." - GREAT!!!

" She got lots of treats on the tree too and ate them all." - Perfect!!

" She only growled when she felt Hawthorne was moving in a new spot and she wasn't certain about it, but otherwise she stayed up on the tree and ate her treats and was a good girl." - Perfect!!! And if a hiss is needed to keep it positive and he respects it it is totally fine.

"They both did some staring but it was reasonably easy to break the stare with distraction." - GREAT!!!

" My partner tried to play with Hawthorne and while he didn't want to pounce/catch the toy he did watch it a bit, so that's something." - Very good

" He was a bit more ready to move around. My partner threw some treats for Hawthorne that led back into his bedroom (the French door room) and he went to get those, " - Perfect!!!

"then we closed him back in." - Ok

" Florie then came off her tree and is grooming and preparing for a nap. Hawthorne is napping in his bed in the French door room." - Perfect

"We'll try the same thing again tomorrow - her on the tree, him out. I think that's a good combo for now." - Sounds great

"Granted, he has to learn to see her moving around and not chase her, but I guess we'll keep working on that during the evening treats, and maybe meal times." - Yes, I am not too worried, he will get there. He is going to trust her and that will help.

"We haven't done meals together but I'm working on that." - Great. I think they will eb ready when you are.

" I feel positive about today" - AGREED!!! I think we are almost there. :)

"although I'm not so foolish as to think he still won't try to chase her, if the opportunity presents or if she happens to run." - Well, maybe, but maybe not. I think he is accepting and fearing less. These past few face to face encounters have really shown us they are going to be just fine. This is the watershed moment. It is just the finishing details now. :)

"But I hope this was a confidence building anyways!" - Hope?!?!?!?!?! ;) IT WAS!!!!!! :)

"We will keep building on this! " - :cheerleader:

REALLY WELL DONE!!! I am SO PROUD of you, your partner, Florie and Hawthorne!!! :clap2:
Hello there C calicosrspecial ! Hope you are having a good start to the week. :)

We have done two more sessions where Florie is on her cat tree and Hawthorne gets to come out. The first one was with my partner, so he attends to Hawthorne and I stay with Florie. That went very well - it was about 20 minutes and Hawthorne moved about more easily (still staying pretty well on the edges of the room) and would lie down to watch her and she did relax a bit on her tree, although she was also watchful. Both ate their treats.

Last night I tried it with just me, for only about 10 minutes. It went about the same. She still growls if he comes say, within 5 feet of the tree, which at one point he did while chasing a treat. He was good - he hasn't run at the tree again. Instead, he chases his treats or lies/crouches somewhere to observe. He had big eyes but they weren't dilated or anything. And he's obviously cautious (he lies in a place he feels safe but can still see - like, beside the kitchen island or under a bar stool) but gaining a bit of confidence. We're going to try again tonight when my partner is home and then we'll see how long we can go - see if we can get them to relax or take a nap or do something to indicate they've gotten a bit bored with the other one.

We are having a little issue with Florie. We have been doing the face-to-face treat time before bed, but for the last two nights - instead of coming out to join us for dental greenies or walking out into the room to claim her ground - she eats her paste and then she goes right into our bedroom, under the bed. My sense is that it isn't fear of Hawthorne; rather, she's trying to ensure we don't put her back in her bedroom overnight. But I also notice she prefers to use her litterbox when she's alone in her room (or alone in a room) - and when she's in the room with us overnight, she obviously isn't alone. And she really only pees say, once every 24 hours, if even that. So last night she hadn't peed in awhile, so I thought I would put her in her room overnight to give her a chance to use the litterbox. She pooped in it, but then at some point overnight or this morning, she peed on her bed again - on the blankets. The litterboxes are scooped regularly, and I will clean this other one out totally today and put in fresh litter. I don't think it's fear of Hawthorne that suddenly has her peeing. Would it make sense she did it because she didn't want to be alone in her room and felt anxious? She has been sleeping with us most other nights. This is the first time she's peed outside the litterbox since we were gone to the cottage in the third week of July.

I will monitor her to see if she uses the box again in the next day. I'm happy to take her to the vet, if that's the best next step. Is there anything else I should be considering at this point? She is eating and drinking and seems otherwise herself.
 
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calicosrspecial

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Hello there C calicosrspecial ! Hope you are having a good start to the week. :)

We have done two more sessions where Florie is on her cat tree and Hawthorne gets to come out. The first one was with my partner, so he attends to Hawthorne and I stay with Florie. That went very well - it was about 20 minutes and Hawthorne moved about more easily (still staying pretty well on the edges of the room) and would lie down to watch her and she did relax a bit on her tree, although she was also watchful. Both ate their treats.

Last night I tried it with just me, for only about 10 minutes. It went about the same. She still growls if he comes say, within 5 feet of the tree, which at one point he did while chasing a treat. He was good - he hasn't run at the tree again. Instead, he chases his treats or lies/crouches somewhere to observe. He had big eyes but they weren't dilated or anything. And he's obviously cautious (he lies in a place he feels safe but can still see - like, beside the kitchen island or under a bar stool) but gaining a bit of confidence. We're going to try again tonight when my partner is home and then we'll see how long we can go - see if we can get them to relax or take a nap or do something to indicate they've gotten a bit bored with the other one.

We are having a little issue with Florie. We have been doing the face-to-face treat time before bed, but for the last two nights - instead of coming out to join us for dental greenies or walking out into the room to claim her ground - she eats her paste and then she goes right into our bedroom, under the bed. My sense is that it isn't fear of Hawthorne; rather, she's trying to ensure we don't put her back in her bedroom overnight. But I also notice she prefers to use her litterbox when she's alone in her room (or alone in a room) - and when she's in the room with us overnight, she obviously isn't alone. And she really only pees say, once every 24 hours, if even that. So last night she hadn't peed in awhile, so I thought I would put her in her room overnight to give her a chance to use the litterbox. She pooped in it, but then at some point overnight or this morning, she peed on her bed again - on the blankets. The litterboxes are scooped regularly, and I will clean this other one out totally today and put in fresh litter. I don't think it's fear of Hawthorne that suddenly has her peeing. Would it make sense she did it because she didn't want to be alone in her room and felt anxious? She has been sleeping with us most other nights. This is the first time she's peed outside the litterbox since we were gone to the cottage in the third week of July.

I will monitor her to see if she uses the box again in the next day. I'm happy to take her to the vet, if that's the best next step. Is there anything else I should be considering at this point? She is eating and drinking and seems otherwise herself.
"Hello there C calicosrspecial C calicosrspecial ! Hope you are having a good start to the week. :) " - Hello

"We have done two more sessions where Florie is on her cat tree and Hawthorne gets to come out. The first one was with my partner, so he attends to Hawthorne and I stay with Florie. That went very well - it was about 20 minutes and Hawthorne moved about more easily (still staying pretty well on the edges of the room) and would lie down to watch her and she did relax a bit on her tree, although she was also watchful. Both ate their treats." - GREAT!!

"Last night I tried it with just me, for only about 10 minutes. It went about the same." - Great

" She still growls if he comes say, within 5 feet of the tree, which at one point he did while chasing a treat." - Ok, not an issue if he respects the communication.

"He was good - he hasn't run at the tree again. Instead, he chases his treats or lies/crouches somewhere to observe." - GREAT!!!

" He had big eyes but they weren't dilated or anything." - Ok, not an issue., Not supported by any negative actions.

" And he's obviously cautious (he lies in a place he feels safe but can still see - like, beside the kitchen island or under a bar stool) but gaining a bit of confidence." - Great, that is what we want. To build that trust and confidence.

" We're going to try again tonight when my partner is home and then we'll see how long we can go - see if we can get them to relax or take a nap or do something to indicate they've gotten a bit bored with the other one." - Sounds great

"We are having a little issue with Florie. We have been doing the face-to-face treat time before bed, but for the last two nights - instead of coming out to join us for dental greenies or walking out into the room to claim her ground - she eats her paste and then she goes right into our bedroom, under the bed." - Ok.

" My sense is that it isn't fear of Hawthorne; rather, she's trying to ensure we don't put her back in her bedroom overnight." - Ahhhhhhh, makes sense.

"But I also notice she prefers to use her litterbox when she's alone in her room (or alone in a room) " - Ok, that is pretty common.

"- and when she's in the room with us overnight, she obviously isn't alone. And she really only pees say, once every 24 hours, if even that." - :/ Does she drink enough?

" So last night she hadn't peed in awhile, so I thought I would put her in her room overnight to give her a chance to use the litterbox. She pooped in it, but then at some point overnight or this morning, she peed on her bed again - on the blankets." - Hmmmmmmm. Not good. When was the last time she did that? It could be medical or behavioral (territorial insecurity). Now, she could have been stressed not sleeping with you. And she expressed the stress by peeing. Does Hawthorne sleep on the bed? I suspect (given she is not peeing a lot) it may be medical.

"The litterboxes are scooped regularly, and I will clean this other one out totally today and put in fresh litter." - Ok, but not sure tht is it. :/

" I don't think it's fear of Hawthorne that suddenly has her peeing. " - I don't think so either.

"Would it make sense she did it because she didn't want to be alone in her room and felt anxious? She has been sleeping with us most other nights." - Yes, entirely possible. BUT I don't like that she is only peeing once every 24 hours. Are you sure of that?

"This is the first time she's peed outside the litterbox since we were gone to the cottage in the third week of July." - Ok.

"I will monitor her to see if she uses the box again in the next day." - Excellent.

" I'm happy to take her to the vet, if that's the best next step." - Ok. How does she do going to the vet? Is it stressful?

" Is there anything else I should be considering at this point? " - Monitor, give extra love and attention.

"She is eating and drinking and seems otherwise herself. " - Hmmmmmmm, good. Maybe it was not being able to sleep with you that caused some insecurity? Jives with the vacation.

Please keep me up.
 
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Furmama22

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"Hello there C calicosrspecial C calicosrspecial ! Hope you are having a good start to the week. :) " - Hello

"We have done two more sessions where Florie is on her cat tree and Hawthorne gets to come out. The first one was with my partner, so he attends to Hawthorne and I stay with Florie. That went very well - it was about 20 minutes and Hawthorne moved about more easily (still staying pretty well on the edges of the room) and would lie down to watch her and she did relax a bit on her tree, although she was also watchful. Both ate their treats." - GREAT!!

"Last night I tried it with just me, for only about 10 minutes. It went about the same." - Great

" She still growls if he comes say, within 5 feet of the tree, which at one point he did while chasing a treat." - Ok, not an issue if he respects the communication.

"He was good - he hasn't run at the tree again. Instead, he chases his treats or lies/crouches somewhere to observe." - GREAT!!!

" He had big eyes but they weren't dilated or anything." - Ok, not an issue., Not supported by any negative actions.

" And he's obviously cautious (he lies in a place he feels safe but can still see - like, beside the kitchen island or under a bar stool) but gaining a bit of confidence." - Great, that is what we want. To build that trust and confidence.

" We're going to try again tonight when my partner is home and then we'll see how long we can go - see if we can get them to relax or take a nap or do something to indicate they've gotten a bit bored with the other one." - Sounds great

"We are having a little issue with Florie. We have been doing the face-to-face treat time before bed, but for the last two nights - instead of coming out to join us for dental greenies or walking out into the room to claim her ground - she eats her paste and then she goes right into our bedroom, under the bed." - Ok.

" My sense is that it isn't fear of Hawthorne; rather, she's trying to ensure we don't put her back in her bedroom overnight." - Ahhhhhhh, makes sense.

"But I also notice she prefers to use her litterbox when she's alone in her room (or alone in a room) " - Ok, that is pretty common.

"- and when she's in the room with us overnight, she obviously isn't alone. And she really only pees say, once every 24 hours, if even that." - :/ Does she drink enough?

" So last night she hadn't peed in awhile, so I thought I would put her in her room overnight to give her a chance to use the litterbox. She pooped in it, but then at some point overnight or this morning, she peed on her bed again - on the blankets." - Hmmmmmmm. Not good. When was the last time she did that? It could be medical or behavioral (territorial insecurity). Now, she could have been stressed not sleeping with you. And she expressed the stress by peeing. Does Hawthorne sleep on the bed? I suspect (given she is not peeing a lot) it may be medical.

"The litterboxes are scooped regularly, and I will clean this other one out totally today and put in fresh litter." - Ok, but not sure tht is it. :/

" I don't think it's fear of Hawthorne that suddenly has her peeing. " - I don't think so either.

"Would it make sense she did it because she didn't want to be alone in her room and felt anxious? She has been sleeping with us most other nights." - Yes, entirely possible. BUT I don't like that she is only peeing once every 24 hours. Are you sure of that?

"This is the first time she's peed outside the litterbox since we were gone to the cottage in the third week of July." - Ok.

"I will monitor her to see if she uses the box again in the next day." - Excellent.

" I'm happy to take her to the vet, if that's the best next step." - Ok. How does she do going to the vet? Is it stressful?

" Is there anything else I should be considering at this point? " - Monitor, give extra love and attention.

"She is eating and drinking and seems otherwise herself. " - Hmmmmmmm, good. Maybe it was not being able to sleep with you that caused some insecurity? Jives with the vacation.

Please keep me up.
Thanks for your feedback! I've looked back over her peeing and it has sometimes been x2 per day, but in the last few days really only once every 20ish hours - like evening the one day, then afternoon the next day, etc. I've been tracking it now because it seemed so infrequent.. It's nowhere near as often as Hawthorne goes. I think she drinks enough - I see her drinking at least 2 or 3 times a day. And she gets primarily wet food, although I guess there are quite a few kibble treats in there. The kibble is formulated to support urinary concerns - Hawthorne has had a UTI before. I haven't seen her grooming the area or focusing attention there, like as per a UTI. But I haven't seen her pee so I can't tell about straining.

I've only taken her to the vet once before, when I first adopted her. I don't think she loved it, no. But she seemed to do ok. I'll have her sleep with us again tonight and see if she pees in the box. If not, I'll book an appointment. Best to be confident it isn't medical.
 
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calicosrspecial

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Thanks for your feedback! I've looked back over her peeing and it has sometimes been x2 per day, but in the last few days really only once every 20ish hours - like evening the one day, then afternoon the next day, etc. I've been tracking it now because it seemed so infrequent.. It's nowhere near as often as Hawthorne goes. I think she drinks enough - I see her drinking at least 2 or 3 times a day. And she gets primarily wet food, although I guess there are quite a few kibble treats in there. The kibble is formulated to support urinary concerns - Hawthorne has had a UTI before. I haven't seen her grooming the area or focusing attention there, like as per a UTI. But I haven't seen her pee so I can't tell about straining.

I've only taken her to the vet once before, when I first adopted her. I don't think she loved it, no. But she seemed to do ok. I'll have her sleep with us again tonight and see if she pees in the box. If not, I'll book an appointment. Best to be confident it isn't medical.
"Thanks for your feedback!" - You are welcome.

" I've looked back over her peeing and it has sometimes been x2 per day, but in the last few days really only once every 20ish hours - like evening the one day, then afternoon the next day, etc. I've been tracking it now because it seemed so infrequent.." - :( Yeah, I don't like that. Any time there is change it is something we need to look at. Do you think she is drinking less? Eating less wet food?

" It's nowhere near as often as Hawthorne goes." - Yes :/

" I think she drinks enough - I see her drinking at least 2 or 3 times a day. And she gets primarily wet food, although I guess there are quite a few kibble treats in there." - Ok. It sounds ok. Is it warmer or drier than usual lately?

"The kibble is formulated to support urinary concerns - Hawthorne has had a UTI before. I haven't seen her grooming the area or focusing attention there, like as per a UTI. But I haven't seen her pee so I can't tell about straining." - Ok. Hmmmmmm

"I've only taken her to the vet once before, when I first adopted her. I don't think she loved it, no. But she seemed to do ok." - OK, good to know.

"I'll have her sleep with us again tonight and see if she pees in the box." - I think that is fine. I have a feeling it was a bit of stress/separation anxiety. BUT I am bothered that she may not be peeing as much. Do you think there is any chance she is using "his" box?

"If not, I'll book an appointment. Best to be confident it isn't medical." - Yes, it never hurts as long as they don't get too stressed. Sounds like she would be ok.

Keep an eye on her and let me know and also see if she may be using :his" box. I just wonder if she is.
 
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