Advice on Cat Introductions - Feeling a Bit Lost

calicosrspecial

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Just quickly on the breakfast visual access - for both, it is a change.

He was eating quite heartily before we started doing the visual access at mealtimes. That said, he does and has always liked to graze. But I noticed that before at the other house too - once we started the visual mealtimes he ate less in one go and would leave and then come back later (once the door was closed).

She used to be waiting at the door for her meals, right there when I opened the door in the morning - now she is sleeping on her tree or waiting off to the side on the desk. She isn't waiting right at the gate. And she isn't eating her whole meal, either, like she was. And before she wasn't fussy about where the plate was - she'd just get right into it. Now she waits until the plate is at the edge of the bed (underneath) where she feels a bit more secure.

I will also say, though, that the weather here has changed from really spring-like to now much colder, so not sure if they're just feeling more cold/snuggly in the morning?

Although: Hawthorne still wakes me up for breakfast - but then he doesn't seem to want to come over and eat it.

Moral of the story - Both seemed to initially have a greater relish for breakfast before we started the visual access. But they aren't NOT eating. It's just with some changes.
"Just quickly on the breakfast visual access - for both, it is a change." - Ok, hmmmmm, not sure why. :/

"He was eating quite heartily before we started doing the visual access at mealtimes. That said, he does and has always liked to graze. But I noticed that before at the other house too - once we started the visual mealtimes he ate less in one go and would leave and then come back later (once the door was closed)." - Ok. But he does eat treats? If he isn't eating then pull it back a bit away from the gate to the point he will eat.

"She used to be waiting at the door for her meals, right there when I opened the door in the morning - now she is sleeping on her tree or waiting off to the side on the desk. She isn't waiting right at the gate. And she isn't eating her whole meal, either, like she was. And before she wasn't fussy about where the plate was - she'd just get right into it. Now she waits until the plate is at the edge of the bed (underneath) where she feels a bit more secure." - Ok. I didn't realize that. I am not exactly sure why this change. Nothing obvious as to why. I would like her to be out and not under the bed. Coax her, reassure her to come and get it.

"I will also say, though, that the weather here has changed from really spring-like to now much colder, so not sure if they're just feeling more cold/snuggly in the morning?" - OK, that could be it. I just am not seeing anything in the relationship that would cause it.

I would like them eating together. Doesn't have to be that close. I would like to coax them out and then eat. And if they don't then either move it a bit back (further away).

"Although: Hawthorne still wakes me up for breakfast - but then he doesn't seem to want to come over and eat it." - Ok

Are they eating less or are they just waiting to eat their meals without visual access?

I wonder if they are waiting for treats and just bored with their food or if it is something else.

"Moral of the story - Both seemed to initially have a greater relish for breakfast before we started the visual access." - Ok

" But they aren't NOT eating. It's just with some changes." - So they are eating but more out of sight?

But they are willing to eat treats with visual?
 
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"Just quickly on the breakfast visual access - for both, it is a change." - Ok, hmmmmm, not sure why. :/

"He was eating quite heartily before we started doing the visual access at mealtimes. That said, he does and has always liked to graze. But I noticed that before at the other house too - once we started the visual mealtimes he ate less in one go and would leave and then come back later (once the door was closed)." - Ok. But he does eat treats? If he isn't eating then pull it back a bit away from the gate to the point he will eat.

"She used to be waiting at the door for her meals, right there when I opened the door in the morning - now she is sleeping on her tree or waiting off to the side on the desk. She isn't waiting right at the gate. And she isn't eating her whole meal, either, like she was. And before she wasn't fussy about where the plate was - she'd just get right into it. Now she waits until the plate is at the edge of the bed (underneath) where she feels a bit more secure." - Ok. I didn't realize that. I am not exactly sure why this change. Nothing obvious as to why. I would like her to be out and not under the bed. Coax her, reassure her to come and get it.

"I will also say, though, that the weather here has changed from really spring-like to now much colder, so not sure if they're just feeling more cold/snuggly in the morning?" - OK, that could be it. I just am not seeing anything in the relationship that would cause it.

I would like them eating together. Doesn't have to be that close. I would like to coax them out and then eat. And if they don't then either move it a bit back (further away).

"Although: Hawthorne still wakes me up for breakfast - but then he doesn't seem to want to come over and eat it." - Ok

Are they eating less or are they just waiting to eat their meals without visual access?

I wonder if they are waiting for treats and just bored with their food or if it is something else.

"Moral of the story - Both seemed to initially have a greater relish for breakfast before we started the visual access." - Ok

" But they aren't NOT eating. It's just with some changes." - So they are eating but more out of sight?

But they are willing to eat treats with visual?
Yes, exactly. Their relish for treats has NOT diminished, hahaha. They'll eat those no problem. Sometimes it's just breakfast - she is just reluctant to meet me at the door now (in case Hawthorne is there) and he likes to graze. She has started to graze a bit too - she eats part of her breakfast then finishes it later. He does the same. Sometimes for breakfast they're only both eating for 30 seconds or 1 minute together before he leaves. There just seems to be a little more reluctance than before we started visual access.

That said, supper tonight was great - 3 minutes at least of eating together. So maybe I'm overanalyzing. :)

I'll try to coax her a little bit closer to the gate. They're each about....three feet, probably. Three feet on either side, so six feet apart.

I'm worried now I've made a fuss about nothing and worried you too. :)
 
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calicosrspecial

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Yes, exactly. Their relish for treats has NOT diminished, hahaha. They'll eat those no problem. Sometimes it's just breakfast - she is just reluctant to meet me at the door now (in case Hawthorne is there) and he likes to graze. She has started to graze a bit too - she eats part of her breakfast then finishes it later. He does the same. Sometimes for breakfast they're only both eating for 30 seconds or 1 minute together before he leaves. There just seems to be a little more reluctance than before we started visual access.

That said, supper tonight was great - 3 minutes at least of eating together. So maybe I'm overanalyzing. :)

I'll try to coax her a little bit closer to the gate. They're each about....three feet, probably. Three feet on either side, so six feet apart.

I'm worried now I've made a fuss about nothing and worried you too. :)
"Yes, exactly. Their relish for treats has NOT diminished, hahaha. They'll eat those no problem." - Great. SO they can and do do it which is the key.

"Sometimes it's just breakfast" - Ok. Maybe the long time between visual is the reason OR they are just not as hungry first thing in the morning (which does happen).

" - she is just reluctant to meet me at the door now (in case Hawthorne is there)" - Try to reassure her, etc.

" and he likes to graze." - Yes.

" She has started to graze a bit too - she eats part of her breakfast then finishes it later. He does the same." - Ok.

" Sometimes for breakfast they're only both eating for 30 seconds or 1 minute together before he leaves." That is ok. I am a bit surprised after he leaves she doesn;t go back to eating so I am wondering if she just isn't that hungry.

"There just seems to be a little more reluctance than before we started visual access." - There would be but as long as nothing negative happens it should diminish. BUT if they are doing it for dinner they they can (if they chose) do it for breakfast. So I suspect it is just something about the timing.

"That said, supper tonight was great - 3 minutes at least of eating together. So maybe I'm overanalyzing. :) " - We have to look at everything. But I suspect it has nothing to do with each other and is something more about the timing.

"I'll try to coax her a little bit closer to the gate. They're each about....three feet, probably. Three feet on either side, so six feet apart." - Ok, that is good. Move it a couple of inches closer each time.

"I'm worried now I've made a fuss about nothing and worried you too. :) " - Oh my. No. We can't solve something we don't know about so it is important to know everything. I was a bit worried/surprised because it doesn't match BUT it now makes sense. So we addressed it and now moving on. "Nothin' to see here". ;)

Florie is out and about in the whole house when Hawthorne is in the office, correct?

Keep up the great work.
 
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"Yes, exactly. Their relish for treats has NOT diminished, hahaha. They'll eat those no problem." - Great. SO they can and do do it which is the key.

"Sometimes it's just breakfast" - Ok. Maybe the long time between visual is the reason OR they are just not as hungry first thing in the morning (which does happen).

" - she is just reluctant to meet me at the door now (in case Hawthorne is there)" - Try to reassure her, etc.

" and he likes to graze." - Yes.

" She has started to graze a bit too - she eats part of her breakfast then finishes it later. He does the same." - Ok.

" Sometimes for breakfast they're only both eating for 30 seconds or 1 minute together before he leaves." That is ok. I am a bit surprised after he leaves she doesn;t go back to eating so I am wondering if she just isn't that hungry.

"There just seems to be a little more reluctance than before we started visual access." - There would be but as long as nothing negative happens it should diminish. BUT if they are doing it for dinner they they can (if they chose) do it for breakfast. So I suspect it is just something about the timing.

"That said, supper tonight was great - 3 minutes at least of eating together. So maybe I'm overanalyzing. :) " - We have to look at everything. But I suspect it has nothing to do with each other and is something more about the timing.

"I'll try to coax her a little bit closer to the gate. They're each about....three feet, probably. Three feet on either side, so six feet apart." - Ok, that is good. Move it a couple of inches closer each time.

"I'm worried now I've made a fuss about nothing and worried you too. :) " - Oh my. No. We can't solve something we don't know about so it is important to know everything. I was a bit worried/surprised because it doesn't match BUT it now makes sense. So we addressed it and now moving on. "Nothin' to see here". ;)

Florie is out and about in the whole house when Hawthorne is in the office, correct?

Keep up the great work.
Hello! We're been doing the split time during the day like this: Florie comes out about 8:30 and has full reign of the house and the office until about 12; during that time, Hawthorne is in the bedroom ("his" room). Then I switch them - Hawthorne has full reign of the house and the office (should he choose to come in) and Florie goes in "his" room for the afternoon.

Do you think a different combo would work better? I hadn't thought of letting Florie out by herself for the afternoon and see what happens - and closing Hawthorne in with me. It's a curious idea!
 

calicosrspecial

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Hello! We're been doing the split time during the day like this: Florie comes out about 8:30 and has full reign of the house and the office until about 12; during that time, Hawthorne is in the bedroom ("his" room). Then I switch them - Hawthorne has full reign of the house and the office (should he choose to come in) and Florie goes in "his" room for the afternoon.

Do you think a different combo would work better? I hadn't thought of letting Florie out by herself for the afternoon and see what happens - and closing Hawthorne in with me. It's a curious idea!
"Hello! We're been doing the split time during the day like this: Florie comes out about 8:30 and has full reign of the house and the office until about 12; during that time, Hawthorne is in the bedroom ("his" room)." - Ok. Good. Does she go into the other part of the house or stick closely with you in the office? If you got to get something to drink or eat etc does she come along? Or just sleep in the office?

" Then I switch them - Hawthorne has full reign of the house and the office (should he choose to come in) and Florie goes in "his" room for the afternoon." - Ok, good.

"Do you think a different combo would work better?" - I don't know. I do want Florie to be spending time in the rest of the house more and more (if that isn't already happening).

" I hadn't thought of letting Florie out by herself for the afternoon and see what happens - and closing Hawthorne in with me. It's a curious idea!" - The only issue with that is Hawthorne feeling like territory is being "taken away" which I don't want. IF he is hanging out and enjoying time with you in a room then it would be good but during working hours that is difficult if not impossible.
 
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"Hello! We're been doing the split time during the day like this: Florie comes out about 8:30 and has full reign of the house and the office until about 12; during that time, Hawthorne is in the bedroom ("his" room)." - Ok. Good. Does she go into the other part of the house or stick closely with you in the office? If you got to get something to drink or eat etc does she come along? Or just sleep in the office?

" Then I switch them - Hawthorne has full reign of the house and the office (should he choose to come in) and Florie goes in "his" room for the afternoon." - Ok, good.

"Do you think a different combo would work better?" - I don't know. I do want Florie to be spending time in the rest of the house more and more (if that isn't already happening).

" I hadn't thought of letting Florie out by herself for the afternoon and see what happens - and closing Hawthorne in with me. It's a curious idea!" - The only issue with that is Hawthorne feeling like territory is being "taken away" which I don't want. IF he is hanging out and enjoying time with you in a room then it would be good but during working hours that is difficult if not impossible.
I will ponder it! My goal was to get Florie to spend more time outside in the main space of the house, hence the opportunity in the morning for to do her own thing if she wants. Even with the door/gate open, she does still sometimes spend time with me in the office, sleeping on her tree or in my lap. She also does sometimes sleep on the cat tree in the main living area. If I go to get something to eat and she's in the office, she does frequently follow me out.

I sometimes wonder if she wasn't allowed/encouraged to sleep on the furniture at her previous home, as she rarely sleeps on the sofa or other places. She mostly sleeps on her cat tree, the cat tree in the main area, or the carpet. When in Hawthorne's room, she sleeps in a bin in the closet.

She is, of course, allowed on anything here. :)

Hawthorne is unhappy being in the bedroom in the morning, yes. He cries a lot. She needs time out in the main space so I don't see another way around it.

We could try her in the office with me and him out in the morning, and then switch. I don't know how she would do out alone for several hours with Hawthorne in "her" room. It could be an experiment.

Tonight we'll try the French door space again and I'll update how that goes. :)

In some respects I see progress in their relationship and then in others it seems so slow. But I do think he is (or seems to be) less reactive than he has been in the past, so that's a good thing. I guess it's the small things!
 
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calicosrspecial

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I will ponder it! My goal was to get Florie to spend more time outside in the main space of the house, hence the opportunity in the morning for to do her own thing if she wants. Even with the door/gate open, she does still sometimes spend time with me in the office, sleeping on her tree or in my lap. She also does sometimes sleep on the cat tree in the main living area. If I go to get something to eat and she's in the office, she does frequently follow me out.

I sometimes wonder if she wasn't allowed/encouraged to sleep on the furniture at her previous home, as she rarely sleeps on the sofa or other places. She mostly sleeps on her cat tree, the cat tree in the main area, or the carpet. When in Hawthorne's room, she sleeps in a bin in the closet.

She is, of course, allowed on anything here. :)

Hawthorne is unhappy being in the bedroom in the morning, yes. He cries a lot. She needs time out in the main space so I don't see another way around it.

We could try her in the office with me and him out in the morning, and then switch. I don't know how she would do out alone for several hours with Hawthorne in "her" room. It could be an experiment.

Tonight we'll try the French door space again and I'll update how that goes. :)

In some respects I see progress in their relationship and then in others it seems so slow. But I do think he is (or seems to be) less reactive than he has been in the past, so that's a good thing. I guess it's the small things!
"I will ponder it! My goal was to get Florie to spend more time outside in the main space of the house, hence the opportunity in the morning for to do her own thing if she wants." - Yes, I think it would be good if she spends more time in the main space.

" Even with the door/gate open, she does still sometimes spend time with me in the office, sleeping on her tree or in my lap." - Yes, I kinda figured she might want to be with you.

"She also does sometimes sleep on the cat tree in the main living area. If I go to get something to eat and she's in the office, she does frequently follow me out." - THAT is great!!! On both.

"I sometimes wonder if she wasn't allowed/encouraged to sleep on the furniture at her previous home, as she rarely sleeps on the sofa or other places." - Could be. :/

She mostly sleeps on her cat tree, the cat tree in the main area, or the carpet." - I like that she is sleeping up in a cat tree as height = confidence.

Are you open to cat shelving at all?

"When in Hawthorne's room, she sleeps in a bin in the closet." - :/ Hmmmmmmm, I would like her to go high or be on the bed etc. I hate to close off the closet but I would like her up and more on the scent surfaces. Does he spend time in that bin at all?

"She is, of course, allowed on anything here. :)" - That I knew. :)

"Hawthorne is unhappy being in the bedroom in the morning, yes. He cries a lot." - Yes, not surprising.

" She needs time out in the main space so I don't see another way around it." - Exactly. So maybe we will try him in the office with you and Florie open elsewhere. Being with you would be easier on him.

"We could try her in the office with me and him out in the morning, and then switch." - Yes.

" I don't know how she would do out alone for several hours with Hawthorne in "her" room. It could be an experiment." - Yes it would be. But I do want her to explore and own more territory.

"Tonight we'll try the French door space again and I'll update how that goes. :) " - Sounds good. Just distract as needed.

"In some respects I see progress in their relationship and then in others it seems so slow." - Yes, definitely progress. Slower than I thought in some ways. He is coming around faster (which is fabulous and most important) while she is progressing slower (which I didn't expect but with her being de-clawed makes much more sense). .

"But I do think he is (or seems to be) less reactive than he has been in the past, so that's a good thing. I guess it's the small things!" - Absolutely and that is a really big deal and really important. He had the territory and it was being "invaded" so that hurdle is the greatest to overcome. That has been the most important thing. And that will (eventually) drag her confidence along. Once she realizes he really doesn't mean harm (and I am convinced that is the case) she will trust and it will improve. But since she is really defenseless be being de-clawed it takes some time. But she will realize it. One thing I do is I have the lacking confidence cat on my lap (giving love) while the other cat is roaming in the free space. BUT for me it is one thing but for others it is another as I don't want them hurt in anyway. So not sure we can do that in this case. Not that she would intentionally hurt you but it could be accidentally. So don't do this for now or before we discuss. I do not want you to get hurt in any way.

We'll get there. He is doing great and everything basically he can and we just need to bring her along to build that trust. And she will. The more he stops focusing on her and doesn't charge her etc the more trust will be built. So keep trying to have him distracted and looking away from her.

Keep up the great work and let's see how tonight goes. :)
 
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"I will ponder it! My goal was to get Florie to spend more time outside in the main space of the house, hence the opportunity in the morning for to do her own thing if she wants." - Yes, I think it would be good if she spends more time in the main space.

" Even with the door/gate open, she does still sometimes spend time with me in the office, sleeping on her tree or in my lap." - Yes, I kinda figured she might want to be with you.

"She also does sometimes sleep on the cat tree in the main living area. If I go to get something to eat and she's in the office, she does frequently follow me out." - THAT is great!!! On both.

"I sometimes wonder if she wasn't allowed/encouraged to sleep on the furniture at her previous home, as she rarely sleeps on the sofa or other places." - Could be. :/

She mostly sleeps on her cat tree, the cat tree in the main area, or the carpet." - I like that she is sleeping up in a cat tree as height = confidence.

Are you open to cat shelving at all?

"When in Hawthorne's room, she sleeps in a bin in the closet." - :/ Hmmmmmmm, I would like her to go high or be on the bed etc. I hate to close off the closet but I would like her up and more on the scent surfaces. Does he spend time in that bin at all?

"She is, of course, allowed on anything here. :)" - That I knew. :)

"Hawthorne is unhappy being in the bedroom in the morning, yes. He cries a lot." - Yes, not surprising.

" She needs time out in the main space so I don't see another way around it." - Exactly. So maybe we will try him in the office with you and Florie open elsewhere. Being with you would be easier on him.

"We could try her in the office with me and him out in the morning, and then switch." - Yes.

" I don't know how she would do out alone for several hours with Hawthorne in "her" room. It could be an experiment." - Yes it would be. But I do want her to explore and own more territory.

"Tonight we'll try the French door space again and I'll update how that goes. :) " - Sounds good. Just distract as needed.

"In some respects I see progress in their relationship and then in others it seems so slow." - Yes, definitely progress. Slower than I thought in some ways. He is coming around faster (which is fabulous and most important) while she is progressing slower (which I didn't expect but with her being de-clawed makes much more sense). .

"But I do think he is (or seems to be) less reactive than he has been in the past, so that's a good thing. I guess it's the small things!" - Absolutely and that is a really big deal and really important. He had the territory and it was being "invaded" so that hurdle is the greatest to overcome. That has been the most important thing. And that will (eventually) drag her confidence along. Once she realizes he really doesn't mean harm (and I am convinced that is the case) she will trust and it will improve. But since she is really defenseless be being de-clawed it takes some time. But she will realize it. One thing I do is I have the lacking confidence cat on my lap (giving love) while the other cat is roaming in the free space. BUT for me it is one thing but for others it is another as I don't want them hurt in anyway. So not sure we can do that in this case. Not that she would intentionally hurt you but it could be accidentally. So don't do this for now or before we discuss. I do not want you to get hurt in any way.

We'll get there. He is doing great and everything basically he can and we just need to bring her along to build that trust. And she will. The more he stops focusing on her and doesn't charge her etc the more trust will be built. So keep trying to have him distracted and looking away from her.

Keep up the great work and let's see how tonight goes. :)
OK we're doing the French door visit now. So far, basically uneventful. She walked by when she first came out and they had a hiss/growl (her)/stare (him) - he was a few feet from the door and didn't charge it, exactly, but did go right over with curious/apprehensive body language. We were able to distract both of them.

He has been pacing/restless to get out of the room - occasionally hiding behind things (like a shirt on a rack) but he was willing to play a little bit and still interested in treats, and then he did take a nap for about twenty minutes on the bed. He also lay in front of the door for a while.

She ate her treats in her puzzle (my partner set it more like 10 feet away today) and once came and watched him for about three minutes from about 10 feet away. Just watching. He noticed her and had the curious/apprehensive body language at the door with some chirping but it didn't look aggressive. Then my partner was able to distract her and she spent the rest of the time in the living room with him, playing and then napping with her head on a toy.

Hawthorne was a bit more difficult to distract tonight, but I tried. At the end of the evening, I tried to distract him with treats so she could go buy the door on her way to her bedroom. She did fine and trotted past, and when he noticed her he did turn and look but didn't run to the door - I kept putting treats in front of him and he stayed for those.

Tomorrow or Friday we'll try the new set-up - Florie in with me in the office while Hawthorne is out in the house; then, Florie out in the house while Hawthorne is with me. I just need to be careful since it's a single gate now - no cats slipping out or meeting at the gates. :)

On an unrelated note, you'd asked about Florie sleeping in Hawthorne's room. She does typically sleep up high actually - in a bin on a shelf up in the closet. I just worry about her jumping down from it - it's really high and she hits the ground like a ton of bricks. Hawthorne does NOT sleep up there - I don't think he has tried to get that high. When he is closed in the room he sleeps on the ground in front of the door. He does sleep on the bed with us overnight. I don't think she sleeps on the bed, really. I could try to spend a little more time in there WITH her in the evening or such and see if she'll come join me - to help ensure the scent exchange.

We do have cat perches and I'm totally in favour of them. They're installed in Florence's room (the office). My partner is not keen on them elsewhere so that was the compromise. So far, they neither of them really go on them which is a disappointment to me! But I'm still hoping down the road, they'll try again. :)
 
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Just wanted to add a little update about breakfast - they were both eating breakfast and Florie was done a little quicker this morning. She stretched and decided she would try walking a little closer to the gate. Hawthorne left his meal and came over - I wouldn't call it a charge but I would call it quick interest - and then of course, she growled/hissed/pulled back and he started his snorting/huffing at the gate. She ran to hide around the corner by the desk, out of sight, and he snuffed a bit more and then went offside into the bedroom where he could watch the gate from a little distance. I was able to then distract them both with treats, and I left Florie in her room and closed the door. About a minute later, Hawthorne went back to eat breakfast and I looked and saw she was grooming on her cat tree. So I'm hoping that means it wasn't too serious??

Hawthorne just can't let it be and ignore her!
 

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OK we're doing the French door visit now. So far, basically uneventful. She walked by when she first came out and they had a hiss/growl (her)/stare (him) - he was a few feet from the door and didn't charge it, exactly, but did go right over with curious/apprehensive body language. We were able to distract both of them.

He has been pacing/restless to get out of the room - occasionally hiding behind things (like a shirt on a rack) but he was willing to play a little bit and still interested in treats, and then he did take a nap for about twenty minutes on the bed. He also lay in front of the door for a while.

She ate her treats in her puzzle (my partner set it more like 10 feet away today) and once came and watched him for about three minutes from about 10 feet away. Just watching. He noticed her and had the curious/apprehensive body language at the door with some chirping but it didn't look aggressive. Then my partner was able to distract her and she spent the rest of the time in the living room with him, playing and then napping with her head on a toy.

Hawthorne was a bit more difficult to distract tonight, but I tried. At the end of the evening, I tried to distract him with treats so she could go buy the door on her way to her bedroom. She did fine and trotted past, and when he noticed her he did turn and look but didn't run to the door - I kept putting treats in front of him and he stayed for those.

Tomorrow or Friday we'll try the new set-up - Florie in with me in the office while Hawthorne is out in the house; then, Florie out in the house while Hawthorne is with me. I just need to be careful since it's a single gate now - no cats slipping out or meeting at the gates. :)

On an unrelated note, you'd asked about Florie sleeping in Hawthorne's room. She does typically sleep up high actually - in a bin on a shelf up in the closet. I just worry about her jumping down from it - it's really high and she hits the ground like a ton of bricks. Hawthorne does NOT sleep up there - I don't think he has tried to get that high. When he is closed in the room he sleeps on the ground in front of the door. He does sleep on the bed with us overnight. I don't think she sleeps on the bed, really. I could try to spend a little more time in there WITH her in the evening or such and see if she'll come join me - to help ensure the scent exchange.

We do have cat perches and I'm totally in favour of them. They're installed in Florence's room (the office). My partner is not keen on them elsewhere so that was the compromise. So far, they neither of them really go on them which is a disappointment to me! But I'm still hoping down the road, they'll try again. :)
"OK we're doing the French door visit now. So far, basically uneventful." - Great

" She walked by when she first came out and they had a hiss/growl (her)/stare (him)" - Expected.

" - he was a few feet from the door and didn't charge it, exactly, but did go right over with curious/apprehensive body language." - Awesome!!! I LOVE that he respected the communication.

" We were able to distract both of them." - Perfect

"He has been pacing/restless to get out of the room - occasionally hiding behind things (like a shirt on a rack)" - Yes, he doesn;t like being confined. :/

" but he was willing to play a little bit and still interested in treats," - Great

" and then he did take a nap for about twenty minutes on the bed. He also lay in front of the door for a while." - Perfect

"She ate her treats in her puzzle (my partner set it more like 10 feet away today)" - Great

" and once came and watched him for about three minutes from about 10 feet away. Just watching." AWESOME!!

" He noticed her and had the curious/apprehensive body language at the door with some chirping but it didn't look aggressive." - LOVE this response!!!

"Then my partner was able to distract her and she spent the rest of the time in the living room with him, playing and then napping with her head on a toy." - PERFECT!!!

"Hawthorne was a bit more difficult to distract tonight, but I tried." - Ok

" At the end of the evening, I tried to distract him with treats so she could go buy the door on her way to her bedroom. She did fine and trotted past, and when he noticed her he did turn and look but didn't run to the door - I kept putting treats in front of him and he stayed for those." - FANTASTIC!!!! THIS is AMAZING progress!!!

"Tomorrow or Friday we'll try the new set-up - Florie in with me in the office while Hawthorne is out in the house; then, Florie out in the house while Hawthorne is with me. I just need to be careful since it's a single gate now - no cats slipping out or meeting at the gates. :)" - Ok, sounds good. He may have issues being closed in BUT the gate should make it feel more open.

"On an unrelated note, you'd asked about Florie sleeping in Hawthorne's room. She does typically sleep up high actually - in a bin on a shelf up in the closet." - Ok, good. I like she is high up. Great sign.

" I just worry about her jumping down from it - it's really high and she hits the ground like a ton of bricks." - Yes. :/

" Hawthorne does NOT sleep up there - I don't think he has tried to get that high." - That is fine.

"When he is closed in the room he sleeps on the ground in front of the door. He does sleep on the bed with us overnight. I don't think she sleeps on the bed, really. " - Ok, that is fine.

"I could try to spend a little more time in there WITH her in the evening or such and see if she'll come join me - to help ensure the scent exchange." - You can but I don't think it has to happen. But it wouldn't hurt but if time is short then I wouldn't worry.

"We do have cat perches and I'm totally in favour of them. They're installed in Florence's room (the office)." - Great

" My partner is not keen on them elsewhere so that was the compromise." - That is fine.

" So far, they neither of them really go on them which is a disappointment to me! But I'm still hoping down the road, they'll try again. :) " - Try to coax the up with a treat or a toy. Show them it is an option.

Overall, a fantastic success last night!!!

"Just wanted to add a little update about breakfast - they were both eating breakfast and Florie was done a little quicker this morning. She stretched and decided she would try walking a little closer to the gate." - LOVE the stretch (sign of confidence, comfort),

" Hawthorne left his meal and came over - I wouldn't call it a charge but I would call it quick interest" - That is fine, expected.

" - and then of course, she growled/hissed/pulled back and he started his snorting/huffing at the gate." - Ok.

" She ran to hide around the corner by the desk, out of sight," - Ok. :/ I was hoping for better but not an issue.

"and he snuffed a bit more and then went offside into the bedroom where he could watch the gate from a little distance." - Ok, good.

" I was able to then distract them both with treats," - Great work!!

" and I left Florie in her room and closed the door." - Ok

" About a minute later, Hawthorne went back to eat breakfast and I looked and saw she was grooming on her cat tree. So I'm hoping that means it wasn't too serious??" - Perfect. Nope, wasn't serious at all!! Fast rebound = positive, And nothing really bad happened so it will build confidence.

"Hawthorne just can't let it be and ignore her! " - He is doing great. And this morning really wasn't that bad. I would like her to hold her ground more, but overall I think they both did well. He is doing great and she just needs to get that breakthrough which she will with him doing so well.

Seems like morning are still a bit of a challenge but we will get over that. I am not at all bothered and last night's progress was fantastic!!!
 
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Furmama22

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"OK we're doing the French door visit now. So far, basically uneventful." - Great

" She walked by when she first came out and they had a hiss/growl (her)/stare (him)" - Expected.

" - he was a few feet from the door and didn't charge it, exactly, but did go right over with curious/apprehensive body language." - Awesome!!! I LOVE that he respected the communication.

" We were able to distract both of them." - Perfect

"He has been pacing/restless to get out of the room - occasionally hiding behind things (like a shirt on a rack)" - Yes, he doesn;t like being confined. :/

" but he was willing to play a little bit and still interested in treats," - Great

" and then he did take a nap for about twenty minutes on the bed. He also lay in front of the door for a while." - Perfect

"She ate her treats in her puzzle (my partner set it more like 10 feet away today)" - Great

" and once came and watched him for about three minutes from about 10 feet away. Just watching." AWESOME!!

" He noticed her and had the curious/apprehensive body language at the door with some chirping but it didn't look aggressive." - LOVE this response!!!

"Then my partner was able to distract her and she spent the rest of the time in the living room with him, playing and then napping with her head on a toy." - PERFECT!!!

"Hawthorne was a bit more difficult to distract tonight, but I tried." - Ok

" At the end of the evening, I tried to distract him with treats so she could go buy the door on her way to her bedroom. She did fine and trotted past, and when he noticed her he did turn and look but didn't run to the door - I kept putting treats in front of him and he stayed for those." - FANTASTIC!!!! THIS is AMAZING progress!!!

"Tomorrow or Friday we'll try the new set-up - Florie in with me in the office while Hawthorne is out in the house; then, Florie out in the house while Hawthorne is with me. I just need to be careful since it's a single gate now - no cats slipping out or meeting at the gates. :)" - Ok, sounds good. He may have issues being closed in BUT the gate should make it feel more open.

"On an unrelated note, you'd asked about Florie sleeping in Hawthorne's room. She does typically sleep up high actually - in a bin on a shelf up in the closet." - Ok, good. I like she is high up. Great sign.

" I just worry about her jumping down from it - it's really high and she hits the ground like a ton of bricks." - Yes. :/

" Hawthorne does NOT sleep up there - I don't think he has tried to get that high." - That is fine.

"When he is closed in the room he sleeps on the ground in front of the door. He does sleep on the bed with us overnight. I don't think she sleeps on the bed, really. " - Ok, that is fine.

"I could try to spend a little more time in there WITH her in the evening or such and see if she'll come join me - to help ensure the scent exchange." - You can but I don't think it has to happen. But it wouldn't hurt but if time is short then I wouldn't worry.

"We do have cat perches and I'm totally in favour of them. They're installed in Florence's room (the office)." - Great

" My partner is not keen on them elsewhere so that was the compromise." - That is fine.

" So far, they neither of them really go on them which is a disappointment to me! But I'm still hoping down the road, they'll try again. :) " - Try to coax the up with a treat or a toy. Show them it is an option.

Overall, a fantastic success last night!!!

"Just wanted to add a little update about breakfast - they were both eating breakfast and Florie was done a little quicker this morning. She stretched and decided she would try walking a little closer to the gate." - LOVE the stretch (sign of confidence, comfort),

" Hawthorne left his meal and came over - I wouldn't call it a charge but I would call it quick interest" - That is fine, expected.

" - and then of course, she growled/hissed/pulled back and he started his snorting/huffing at the gate." - Ok.

" She ran to hide around the corner by the desk, out of sight," - Ok. :/ I was hoping for better but not an issue.

"and he snuffed a bit more and then went offside into the bedroom where he could watch the gate from a little distance." - Ok, good.

" I was able to then distract them both with treats," - Great work!!

" and I left Florie in her room and closed the door." - Ok

" About a minute later, Hawthorne went back to eat breakfast and I looked and saw she was grooming on her cat tree. So I'm hoping that means it wasn't too serious??" - Perfect. Nope, wasn't serious at all!! Fast rebound = positive, And nothing really bad happened so it will build confidence.

"Hawthorne just can't let it be and ignore her! " - He is doing great. And this morning really wasn't that bad. I would like her to hold her ground more, but overall I think they both did well. He is doing great and she just needs to get that breakthrough which she will with him doing so well.

Seems like morning are still a bit of a challenge but we will get over that. I am not at all bothered and last night's progress was fantastic!!!
Awesome! I'm glad it's all still seeming positive. Again, your support and assessments are so helpful. I tend to see things as worse than they are, it seems.

Just a quick update that we didn't do French doors last night (it didn't work out in the evening) but breakfast this morning primarily went well. We just had a similar incident to yesterday. After breakfast (which went fine), I heard a funny noise from Florie's room and just wanted to know what it was (it was her trying to stick her head into something to find a treat). I opened the door to peek in and she came right to the gate, and Hawthorne spotted her from down the hallway and came quickly up to the gate - not quite a charge as such but definitely with interest and he was a bit lower to the ground running over . She pulled back and growled/hissed, but to her credit, did not run away. Perhaps it was because the door was only partly open and she felt more protected. He did his usual snorting/huffing and I quickly grabbed a few treats from nearby. I tossed one right by Florie and she slowly moved to eat it; then I tossed a few to Hawthorne and while he was a bit more difficult to distract, he did go to eat them. I was able to close the door then.

Hawthorne didn't put his paw through the gate or anything - so no swatting. So that was good.

I do have a question - after he does his staring/snorting, he pulls away from the gate and moves very slowly - slowly to get his treat or slowly into the bedroom. Is that him trying to show he means no harm? It seems odd to me that he wants to run up to the gate but then will back away from it slowly afterwards.

Either way, it seems both of them were over it pretty quickly again. :)

And it's back to sunshine and spring weather here, so lots of birds to watch! Florie is sleeping in the sunshine on her cat tree right now.
 

calicosrspecial

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Awesome! I'm glad it's all still seeming positive. Again, your support and assessments are so helpful. I tend to see things as worse than they are, it seems.

Just a quick update that we didn't do French doors last night (it didn't work out in the evening) but breakfast this morning primarily went well. We just had a similar incident to yesterday. After breakfast (which went fine), I heard a funny noise from Florie's room and just wanted to know what it was (it was her trying to stick her head into something to find a treat). I opened the door to peek in and she came right to the gate, and Hawthorne spotted her from down the hallway and came quickly up to the gate - not quite a charge as such but definitely with interest and he was a bit lower to the ground running over . She pulled back and growled/hissed, but to her credit, did not run away. Perhaps it was because the door was only partly open and she felt more protected. He did his usual snorting/huffing and I quickly grabbed a few treats from nearby. I tossed one right by Florie and she slowly moved to eat it; then I tossed a few to Hawthorne and while he was a bit more difficult to distract, he did go to eat them. I was able to close the door then.

Hawthorne didn't put his paw through the gate or anything - so no swatting. So that was good.

I do have a question - after he does his staring/snorting, he pulls away from the gate and moves very slowly - slowly to get his treat or slowly into the bedroom. Is that him trying to show he means no harm? It seems odd to me that he wants to run up to the gate but then will back away from it slowly afterwards.

Either way, it seems both of them were over it pretty quickly again. :)

And it's back to sunshine and spring weather here, so lots of birds to watch! Florie is sleeping in the sunshine on her cat tree right now.
"Awesome! I'm glad it's all still seeming positive. Again, your support and assessments are so helpful. I tend to see things as worse than they are, it seems." - Yes. It is often the nuance that tells us a lot which is hard to pick up without experience. Hopefully I am pointing out the things correctly.

"Just a quick update that we didn't do French doors last night (it didn't work out in the evening)" - Yes, I kinda figured. Life happens. :)

"but breakfast this morning primarily went well." - Great

"We just had a similar incident to yesterday." - Ok, let's see.

" After breakfast (which went fine)," - Ok, they were eating breakfast with the door open but with the gate, corect?

" I heard a funny noise from Florie's room and just wanted to know what it was (it was her trying to stick her head into something to find a treat)." - Awwwwwwwww, silly girl.

" I opened the door to peek in and she came right to the gate," - Awwwwwwwww

" and Hawthorne spotted her from down the hallway and came quickly up to the gate - not quite a charge as such but definitely with interest and he was a bit lower to the ground running over ." - Ok, not surprising.

" She pulled back and growled/hissed, but to her credit, did not run away." - :yess: So I am looking for "tells" and the fact she did not run is a great step in the progress.

"Perhaps it was because the door was only partly open and she felt more protected." - Possibly but that is fine. She held her ground which will deter him and is a good sign of her trusting more.

" He did his usual snorting/huffing and I quickly grabbed a few treats from nearby." - Yes, expected.

" I tossed one right by Florie and she slowly moved to eat it;" - Perfect!!

" then I tossed a few to Hawthorne and while he was a bit more difficult to distract, he did go to eat them. I was able to close the door then." - Perfect. Here, I think I would leave the door open and distract to see if they can be ok.

"Hawthorne didn't put his paw through the gate or anything - so no swatting. So that was good." - Great, not an issue. Actually the whole thing it not an issue. Not perfect, not where we want to be BUT not an issue either if that makes sense.

"I do have a question - after he does his staring/snorting, he pulls away from the gate and moves very slowly - slowly to get his treat or slowly into the bedroom. Is that him trying to show he means no harm?" - Exactly AND he is saying "don't attack me as I don't mean harm". That tells us he still doesn't trust her BUT it also tells us that he doesn't mean harm. Overall, positive. Of course, when they trust fully (or mostly) we will see that go away (slow motion movements).

" It seems odd to me that he wants to run up to the gate but then will back away from it slowly afterwards." - Not at all, happens all the time. He is being offensive (as as a good offense/deterrent is a good defense).

"Either way, it seems both of them were over it pretty quickly again. :)" - And again how they act after is key. A fast rebound tells us that they thought it wasn't a big deal.

"And it's back to sunshine and spring weather here, so lots of birds to watch! Florie is sleeping in the sunshine on her cat tree right now." - Perfect!!! :)

So overall, good progress. Just keep up the great work. And feel free to keep the visual distracting as needed. Like the dor situation (if you have time) maybe leave it open and distract and see if you can extend it a bit (in a positive way).
 
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Furmama22

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"Awesome! I'm glad it's all still seeming positive. Again, your support and assessments are so helpful. I tend to see things as worse than they are, it seems." - Yes. It is often the nuance that tells us a lot which is hard to pick up without experience. Hopefully I am pointing out the things correctly.

"Just a quick update that we didn't do French doors last night (it didn't work out in the evening)" - Yes, I kinda figured. Life happens. :)

"but breakfast this morning primarily went well." - Great

"We just had a similar incident to yesterday." - Ok, let's see.

" After breakfast (which went fine)," - Ok, they were eating breakfast with the door open but with the gate, corect?

" I heard a funny noise from Florie's room and just wanted to know what it was (it was her trying to stick her head into something to find a treat)." - Awwwwwwwww, silly girl.

" I opened the door to peek in and she came right to the gate," - Awwwwwwwww

" and Hawthorne spotted her from down the hallway and came quickly up to the gate - not quite a charge as such but definitely with interest and he was a bit lower to the ground running over ." - Ok, not surprising.

" She pulled back and growled/hissed, but to her credit, did not run away." - :yess: So I am looking for "tells" and the fact she did not run is a great step in the progress.

"Perhaps it was because the door was only partly open and she felt more protected." - Possibly but that is fine. She held her ground which will deter him and is a good sign of her trusting more.

" He did his usual snorting/huffing and I quickly grabbed a few treats from nearby." - Yes, expected.

" I tossed one right by Florie and she slowly moved to eat it;" - Perfect!!

" then I tossed a few to Hawthorne and while he was a bit more difficult to distract, he did go to eat them. I was able to close the door then." - Perfect. Here, I think I would leave the door open and distract to see if they can be ok.

"Hawthorne didn't put his paw through the gate or anything - so no swatting. So that was good." - Great, not an issue. Actually the whole thing it not an issue. Not perfect, not where we want to be BUT not an issue either if that makes sense.

"I do have a question - after he does his staring/snorting, he pulls away from the gate and moves very slowly - slowly to get his treat or slowly into the bedroom. Is that him trying to show he means no harm?" - Exactly AND he is saying "don't attack me as I don't mean harm". That tells us he still doesn't trust her BUT it also tells us that he doesn't mean harm. Overall, positive. Of course, when they trust fully (or mostly) we will see that go away (slow motion movements).

" It seems odd to me that he wants to run up to the gate but then will back away from it slowly afterwards." - Not at all, happens all the time. He is being offensive (as as a good offense/deterrent is a good defense).

"Either way, it seems both of them were over it pretty quickly again. :)" - And again how they act after is key. A fast rebound tells us that they thought it wasn't a big deal.

"And it's back to sunshine and spring weather here, so lots of birds to watch! Florie is sleeping in the sunshine on her cat tree right now." - Perfect!!! :)

So overall, good progress. Just keep up the great work. And feel free to keep the visual distracting as needed. Like the dor situation (if you have time) maybe leave it open and distract and see if you can extend it a bit (in a positive way).
Ok, great yes! I do think I need to keep going on the treat sessions and give them more time to see each other. I don't think Florie would try to get out knowing he's there.

We'll keep going with the French door sessions in the evening, treat sessions here and there through the day, and meal times. Maybe this weekend I can do the French door time here and there during the day, to see if we extend visual access a bit.

One last note: Hawthorne still does a little bit of guarding sometimes, when he can hear her in the bedroom - in "his" bedroom, that is. He sleeps by the door or in the hallway. Once she is quiet, he'll go about his business again. I guess that's still normal too?
 

calicosrspecial

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Ok, great yes! I do think I need to keep going on the treat sessions and give them more time to see each other. I don't think Florie would try to get out knowing he's there.

We'll keep going with the French door sessions in the evening, treat sessions here and there through the day, and meal times. Maybe this weekend I can do the French door time here and there during the day, to see if we extend visual access a bit.

One last note: Hawthorne still does a little bit of guarding sometimes, when he can hear her in the bedroom - in "his" bedroom, that is. He sleeps by the door or in the hallway. Once she is quiet, he'll go about his business again. I guess that's still normal too?
"Ok, great yes! I do think I need to keep going on the treat sessions and give them more time to see each other." - I think so. They need to see each other and realize the other isn't always focused.

"I don't think Florie would try to get out knowing he's there." - I wouldn't think BUT if you are out there she may not realize he is around and squeeze out. It is really all about seeing something and seeing it but it not really registering. Like you buy a new couch, when you walk by it for the first few times you see it, acknowledge it etc. But ultimately it blends into the background. That is how we want the cats. To get the novelty of the other cat out of the way and just realize they are "around". And more time exposure (using distraction) is good. So if he is huffing you just reassure Florie and act like it is no big deal and get her focused on you or a toy or a treat. Then he may walk away then come back and eventually be like "ok, she isn't responding so I might as well give up".

"We'll keep going with the French door sessions in the evening, treat sessions here and there through the day, and meal times. Maybe this weekend I can do the French door time here and there during the day, to see if we extend visual access a bit." - Sounds good.

And maybe next week leaving the door to the office open and the gate up and seeing what happens.

"One last note: Hawthorne still does a little bit of guarding sometimes, when he can hear her in the bedroom - in "his" bedroom, that is. He sleeps by the door or in the hallway. Once she is quiet, he'll go about his business again. I guess that's still normal too?" - Totally. Not sure it is guarding as much as curiosity. I actually get a sense he wants to be friends but she doesn't really respond (yet). I feel we are so close to the "breakthrough". I just get that sense. We just need that moment where they are like "yeah, I know you, whatever". Hawthorne was the key and I think we pretty much passed that and now if we can get her to be like "whatever" I think we get that.

Keep up the great work and fill me in on what happens. Keep playing with her as well. Both in the office and in the rest of the house (when you can I know it is hard with work, etc).
 
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Furmama22

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"Ok, great yes! I do think I need to keep going on the treat sessions and give them more time to see each other." - I think so. They need to see each other and realize the other isn't always focused.

"I don't think Florie would try to get out knowing he's there." - I wouldn't think BUT if you are out there she may not realize he is around and squeeze out. It is really all about seeing something and seeing it but it not really registering. Like you buy a new couch, when you walk by it for the first few times you see it, acknowledge it etc. But ultimately it blends into the background. That is how we want the cats. To get the novelty of the other cat out of the way and just realize they are "around". And more time exposure (using distraction) is good. So if he is huffing you just reassure Florie and act like it is no big deal and get her focused on you or a toy or a treat. Then he may walk away then come back and eventually be like "ok, she isn't responding so I might as well give up".

"We'll keep going with the French door sessions in the evening, treat sessions here and there through the day, and meal times. Maybe this weekend I can do the French door time here and there during the day, to see if we extend visual access a bit." - Sounds good.

And maybe next week leaving the door to the office open and the gate up and seeing what happens.

"One last note: Hawthorne still does a little bit of guarding sometimes, when he can hear her in the bedroom - in "his" bedroom, that is. He sleeps by the door or in the hallway. Once she is quiet, he'll go about his business again. I guess that's still normal too?" - Totally. Not sure it is guarding as much as curiosity. I actually get a sense he wants to be friends but she doesn't really respond (yet). I feel we are so close to the "breakthrough". I just get that sense. We just need that moment where they are like "yeah, I know you, whatever". Hawthorne was the key and I think we pretty much passed that and now if we can get her to be like "whatever" I think we get that.

Keep up the great work and fill me in on what happens. Keep playing with her as well. Both in the office and in the rest of the house (when you can I know it is hard with work, etc).
Hello C calicosrspecial ! I have a few interesting updates for today. :)

1. Last night we did a French door visit with Hawthorne and me in the room and Florie and my partner outside. Hawthorne was really really good! They both ate their treats and she seemed a bit easier to go past the door this time, knowing he was there (when she first came out of her room, that is). He didn't rush the door at all. And, then for some reason last night she was very interested in Hawthorne. First, she sat about five feet from the door and watched (and growled). Hawthorne didn't react - just noticed and kept going for the treats. Then she moved to two feet from the door. My partner tried to distract her but she really wanted to sit and watch. I continued to distract Hawthorne and I flicked a few treats under the door for Florie. She came even closer and at one point was sitting right outside the door growling and Hawthorne didn't do anything! He kept wanting treats and he watched her but no door charging. He even took a nap last night on the bed! And she went eventually and took a nap in another bed in the main room.

2. Breakfast - he didn't want to eat his breakfast this morning, but sometimes he wants to do clicker training first and a few kibbles and THEN he'll go eat. So I'll remember that and try tomorrow so they eat together.

3. We're doing French door visual right now - Florie is outside with us; Hawthorne in the french door room. Once again, she wanted to sit and stare at him, closer and closer. She also did go bat at his paws one when he was sticking them under the door. I took a video of them together so you can see.

The link is here: Florie and Hawthorne French Door.mp4. Turn up the volume for full growling sound effects. :)

Once again, aside from him crying to come out, I thought he did really well! She eventually gave up on the growling/watching and explored downstairs and did a few other things. He took a nap on the bed. Now he wants out again so I'll likely pop Florie back into her room and let him out soon.

So two questions: 1) why does Florie go and growl/stare at him? and 2) should we try to switch so she's in the room and see how he does then? So far it's primarily been him in the room.

Anyways, I feel kind of positive about this! I hope this is forward progress. :)
 

calicosrspecial

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Hello C calicosrspecial ! I have a few interesting updates for today. :)

1. Last night we did a French door visit with Hawthorne and me in the room and Florie and my partner outside. Hawthorne was really really good! They both ate their treats and she seemed a bit easier to go past the door this time, knowing he was there (when she first came out of her room, that is). He didn't rush the door at all. And, then for some reason last night she was very interested in Hawthorne. First, she sat about five feet from the door and watched (and growled). Hawthorne didn't react - just noticed and kept going for the treats. Then she moved to two feet from the door. My partner tried to distract her but she really wanted to sit and watch. I continued to distract Hawthorne and I flicked a few treats under the door for Florie. She came even closer and at one point was sitting right outside the door growling and Hawthorne didn't do anything! He kept wanting treats and he watched her but no door charging. He even took a nap last night on the bed! And she went eventually and took a nap in another bed in the main room.

2. Breakfast - he didn't want to eat his breakfast this morning, but sometimes he wants to do clicker training first and a few kibbles and THEN he'll go eat. So I'll remember that and try tomorrow so they eat together.

3. We're doing French door visual right now - Florie is outside with us; Hawthorne in the french door room. Once again, she wanted to sit and stare at him, closer and closer. She also did go bat at his paws one when he was sticking them under the door. I took a video of them together so you can see.

The link is here: Florie and Hawthorne French Door.mp4. Turn up the volume for full growling sound effects. :)

Once again, aside from him crying to come out, I thought he did really well! She eventually gave up on the growling/watching and explored downstairs and did a few other things. He took a nap on the bed. Now he wants out again so I'll likely pop Florie back into her room and let him out soon.

So two questions: 1) why does Florie go and growl/stare at him? and 2) should we try to switch so she's in the room and see how he does then? So far it's primarily been him in the room.

Anyways, I feel kind of positive about this! I hope this is forward progress. :)
"Hello C calicosrspecial C calicosrspecial ! I have a few interesting updates for today. :)" - NOW I am looking forward to this, you are intriguing me. :)

"1. Last night we did a French door visit with Hawthorne and me in the room and Florie and my partner outside." - Great

" Hawthorne was really really good!" - Awwwwwwwww

" They both ate their treats and she seemed a bit easier to go past the door this time, knowing he was there (when she first came out of her room, that is)." - Awesome. She was? WOW!!

" He didn't rush the door at all." - Fantastic!!

"And, then for some reason last night she was very interested in Hawthorne. First, she sat about five feet from the door and watched (and growled)." - Interesting

" Hawthorne didn't react - just noticed and kept going for the treats." - :yess: :hyper::clap2: GREAT JOB HAWTHORNE!!!

"Then she moved to two feet from the door. My partner tried to distract her but she really wanted to sit and watch. I continued to distract Hawthorne and I flicked a few treats under the door for Florie. She came even closer and at one point was sitting right outside the door growling and Hawthorne didn't do anything! He kept wanting treats and he watched her but no door charging. He even took a nap last night on the bed! And she went eventually and took a nap in another bed in the main room." - WHOA!!! :yess::hyper::clap2: I am speechless!!! FANTASTIC!!!!

"2. Breakfast - he didn't want to eat his breakfast this morning, but sometimes he wants to do clicker training first and a few kibbles and THEN he'll go eat. So I'll remember that and try tomorrow so they eat together." - Ok, he might just be a late starter. Seems to be a trend.

"3. We're doing French door visual right now - Florie is outside with us; Hawthorne in the french door room. Once again, she wanted to sit and stare at him, closer and closer. She also did go bat at his paws one when he was sticking them under the door. I took a video of them together so you can see." - Great, will take a look.

The link is here: Florie and Hawthorne French Door.mp4. Turn up the volume for full growling sound effects. :)

Video - Right at the beginning I see Hawthorne walk towards the door, calmly. Florie stays. I LOVE the body language to begin with. The growling is not at all an issue. My goodness are they gorgeous cats. She has no issue looking away from him, turning her back. He goes for the treat. They are eating treats then he comes up to the door and gets a treat and she doesn't even care. LOVE this!! And the body language remains great. Both of them. I mean this is perfect!!! :clap2::hyper: I can't say one negative thing, one thing I didn't like. He looks like he has accepted her. She is almost there. Amazing!!!!

"Once again, aside from him crying to come out, I thought he did really well!" - Oh my, I thought he was PERFECT!!!

"She eventually gave up on the growling/watching and explored downstairs and did a few other things." - Perfect

" He took a nap on the bed. Now he wants out again so I'll likely pop Florie back into her room and let him out soon." - Great

"So two questions: 1) why does Florie go and growl/stare at him?" - I think as a warning though the body language is totally fine so it is a pretty mild warning AND he is respecting it. AND I think it might just be her.

"and 2) should we try to switch so she's in the room and see how he does then? So far it's primarily been him in the room." - I think I would do the gate sessions. I don't think she needs to be in there and it might be that she is a bit insecure in there (not sure). And I don't think you need the doors.

"Anyways, I feel kind of positive about this!" - Oh my, "kind of"???? Hahahaha, you are so understated!! ;) THIS IS AMAZING!!!

" I hope this is forward progress. :) " - Oh my, yes. I actually feel we are on the brink of that breakthrough. I think Hawthorne is there, she is almost there. Let's reinforce this positive association, positive encounter. I think I would do it with the gate at the office as we can push it a bit and get more scent. If they do this well for the next week I think we will be doing a face to face soon :)

I can't say enough how good he was, how proud I am of him. I think he has accepted her. We'll want to reinforce this but I think he is good. AND I see her trusting him A LOT more. Not fully yet and if he would make a move I think she would still react BUT I think she is REALLY close.

I am blown away. Did not expect this (yet). Whoa!!! :) I wish you could see the smile on my face right now!!! :D
 
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Furmama22

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"Hello C calicosrspecial C calicosrspecial ! I have a few interesting updates for today. :)" - NOW I am looking forward to this, you are intriguing me. :)

"1. Last night we did a French door visit with Hawthorne and me in the room and Florie and my partner outside." - Great

" Hawthorne was really really good!" - Awwwwwwwww

" They both ate their treats and she seemed a bit easier to go past the door this time, knowing he was there (when she first came out of her room, that is)." - Awesome. She was? WOW!!

" He didn't rush the door at all." - Fantastic!!

"And, then for some reason last night she was very interested in Hawthorne. First, she sat about five feet from the door and watched (and growled)." - Interesting

" Hawthorne didn't react - just noticed and kept going for the treats." - :yess: :hyper::clap2: GREAT JOB HAWTHORNE!!!

"Then she moved to two feet from the door. My partner tried to distract her but she really wanted to sit and watch. I continued to distract Hawthorne and I flicked a few treats under the door for Florie. She came even closer and at one point was sitting right outside the door growling and Hawthorne didn't do anything! He kept wanting treats and he watched her but no door charging. He even took a nap last night on the bed! And she went eventually and took a nap in another bed in the main room." - WHOA!!! :yess::hyper::clap2: I am speechless!!! FANTASTIC!!!!

"2. Breakfast - he didn't want to eat his breakfast this morning, but sometimes he wants to do clicker training first and a few kibbles and THEN he'll go eat. So I'll remember that and try tomorrow so they eat together." - Ok, he might just be a late starter. Seems to be a trend.

"3. We're doing French door visual right now - Florie is outside with us; Hawthorne in the french door room. Once again, she wanted to sit and stare at him, closer and closer. She also did go bat at his paws one when he was sticking them under the door. I took a video of them together so you can see." - Great, will take a look.

The link is here: Florie and Hawthorne French Door.mp4. Turn up the volume for full growling sound effects. :)

Video - Right at the beginning I see Hawthorne walk towards the door, calmly. Florie stays. I LOVE the body language to begin with. The growling is not at all an issue. My goodness are they gorgeous cats. She has no issue looking away from him, turning her back. He goes for the treat. They are eating treats then he comes up to the door and gets a treat and she doesn't even care. LOVE this!! And the body language remains great. Both of them. I mean this is perfect!!! :clap2::hyper: I can't say one negative thing, one thing I didn't like. He looks like he has accepted her. She is almost there. Amazing!!!!

"Once again, aside from him crying to come out, I thought he did really well!" - Oh my, I thought he was PERFECT!!!

"She eventually gave up on the growling/watching and explored downstairs and did a few other things." - Perfect

" He took a nap on the bed. Now he wants out again so I'll likely pop Florie back into her room and let him out soon." - Great

"So two questions: 1) why does Florie go and growl/stare at him?" - I think as a warning though the body language is totally fine so it is a pretty mild warning AND he is respecting it. AND I think it might just be her.

"and 2) should we try to switch so she's in the room and see how he does then? So far it's primarily been him in the room." - I think I would do the gate sessions. I don't think she needs to be in there and it might be that she is a bit insecure in there (not sure). And I don't think you need the doors.

"Anyways, I feel kind of positive about this!" - Oh my, "kind of"???? Hahahaha, you are so understated!! ;) THIS IS AMAZING!!!

" I hope this is forward progress. :) " - Oh my, yes. I actually feel we are on the brink of that breakthrough. I think Hawthorne is there, she is almost there. Let's reinforce this positive association, positive encounter. I think I would do it with the gate at the office as we can push it a bit and get more scent. If they do this well for the next week I think we will be doing a face to face soon :)

I can't say enough how good he was, how proud I am of him. I think he has accepted her. We'll want to reinforce this but I think he is good. AND I see her trusting him A LOT more. Not fully yet and if he would make a move I think she would still react BUT I think she is REALLY close.

I am blown away. Did not expect this (yet). Whoa!!! :) I wish you could see the smile on my face right now!!! :D
Fabulous!! Haha, I love your enthusiasm! I felt very uplifted by these interactions and very proud of Hawthorne.

What do you envision for their visual access visit using the gate at the office? Would I be in there with Florie and Hawthorne out here in the main area? And we just hang out? I sense she would want to come out so I'd have to keep an eye on her so she doesn't squeeze out/jump.
 

calicosrspecial

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Fabulous!! Haha, I love your enthusiasm! I felt very uplifted by these interactions and very proud of Hawthorne.

What do you envision for their visual access visit using the gate at the office? Would I be in there with Florie and Hawthorne out here in the main area? And we just hang out? I sense she would want to come out so I'd have to keep an eye on her so she doesn't squeeze out/jump.
"Fabulous!! Haha, I love your enthusiasm!" - Awwwwwwww, that is great. I love when the family sees the positives.

" I felt very uplifted by these interactions and very proud of Hawthorne." - AGREED!!! :)

"What do you envision for their visual access visit using the gate at the office? Would I be in there with Florie and Hawthorne out here in the main area?" - Yes, I think to start Florie in the office ("her" room), gate in place, you with Florie, distracting. Hawthorne in the main space hopefully by the gate (like by the french doors). Maybe he will come and go. And just hang with her, reassuring, distracting. I would be very surprised she would squeeze through the gate with you in the room with her.

"And we just hang out?" - Yes

" I sense she would want to come out so I'd have to keep an eye on her so she doesn't squeeze out/jump." - Would she with you with her? Especially with him on the other side?

The first time or two might be a little tense but I get a sense they should be fine. Just distract. Given how well they did with the french doors I don't sense it would escalate.

Have a pillow or a cardboard near just in case but I am not getting any sense they will have issues. The body language in the video was fantastic. If you want to wait a few days that is fine. No rush. But I think they are ready to keep moving forward.
 
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Furmama22

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"Fabulous!! Haha, I love your enthusiasm!" - Awwwwwwww, that is great. I love when the family sees the positives.

" I felt very uplifted by these interactions and very proud of Hawthorne." - AGREED!!! :)

"What do you envision for their visual access visit using the gate at the office? Would I be in there with Florie and Hawthorne out here in the main area?" - Yes, I think to start Florie in the office ("her" room), gate in place, you with Florie, distracting. Hawthorne in the main space hopefully by the gate (like by the french doors). Maybe he will come and go. And just hang with her, reassuring, distracting. I would be very surprised she would squeeze through the gate with you in the room with her.

"And we just hang out?" - Yes

" I sense she would want to come out so I'd have to keep an eye on her so she doesn't squeeze out/jump." - Would she with you with her? Especially with him on the other side?

The first time or two might be a little tense but I get a sense they should be fine. Just distract. Given how well they did with the french doors I don't sense it would escalate.

Have a pillow or a cardboard near just in case but I am not getting any sense they will have issues. The body language in the video was fantastic. If you want to wait a few days that is fine. No rush. But I think they are ready to keep moving forward.
No real updates! We've just continued to do French door visual access times, and they've gone about the same - she sometimes starts off wanting to go by the door and watch/growl and he is fine. They had a couple of batting incidents but that was when he was sticking his paw under the door trying to get out. Ultimately both went to take a nap in their respective spots (obviously him in the French door room) and it's been good. She's grown in confidence going past the door - she sometimes just delivers a hiss and then continues on her way.

Today we did a brief treats session with him in "his" bedroom and her just coming out of her room. He did rush the gate a bit then - not a charge, but quick interest - and she did two strong hisses and ran away. She didn't run far - just a couple of feet - enough to feel away from him. He didn't do his snorting - just a bit of staring - and I called his name a couple of times and threw a treat and then he went for it. Then, with a bit of coaxing, she came back to the gate area and had her treats too (growling all the while). So it's like you said - she's building trust, but still reacts when he does something she doesn't like.

She's growing in confidence too re: sleeping outside in the main area. She has a new spot she likes right by the window - and Hawthorne sleeps in it too, so that's good.

That's all for now! We'll try next week with just the gate and see how that goes. The other option would be to put a gate on the French door room and continue to do the same thing but just with the gate instead of the door - Hawthorne in the room, her out here. Just a thought. :)

Hope you are having a good weekend!
 

calicosrspecial

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No real updates! We've just continued to do French door visual access times, and they've gone about the same - she sometimes starts off wanting to go by the door and watch/growl and he is fine. They had a couple of batting incidents but that was when he was sticking his paw under the door trying to get out. Ultimately both went to take a nap in their respective spots (obviously him in the French door room) and it's been good. She's grown in confidence going past the door - she sometimes just delivers a hiss and then continues on her way.

Today we did a brief treats session with him in "his" bedroom and her just coming out of her room. He did rush the gate a bit then - not a charge, but quick interest - and she did two strong hisses and ran away. She didn't run far - just a couple of feet - enough to feel away from him. He didn't do his snorting - just a bit of staring - and I called his name a couple of times and threw a treat and then he went for it. Then, with a bit of coaxing, she came back to the gate area and had her treats too (growling all the while). So it's like you said - she's building trust, but still reacts when he does something she doesn't like.

She's growing in confidence too re: sleeping outside in the main area. She has a new spot she likes right by the window - and Hawthorne sleeps in it too, so that's good.

That's all for now! We'll try next week with just the gate and see how that goes. The other option would be to put a gate on the French door room and continue to do the same thing but just with the gate instead of the door - Hawthorne in the room, her out here. Just a thought. :)

Hope you are having a good weekend!
"No real updates!" - OK, that is actually good.

" We've just continued to do French door visual access times, and they've gone about the same - she sometimes starts off wanting to go by the door and watch/growl and he is fine." - Perfect

" They had a couple of batting incidents but that was when he was sticking his paw under the door trying to get out." - OK, expected. Depending on how it goes it could be pretty neutral. And if they rebound to "normal" quickly after it is not an issue.

" Ultimately both went to take a nap in their respective spots (obviously him in the French door room) and it's been good." - Great

" She's grown in confidence going past the door - she sometimes just delivers a hiss and then continues on her way." - I LOVE this!!! This is a big deal and is very helpful. She is responding to his trust and confidence.

"Today we did a brief treats session with him in "his" bedroom and her just coming out of her room." - Wow, this is one of the most "challenging" setups. As he wants out typically.

"He did rush the gate a bit then - not a charge, but quick interest" - Ok, pretty good.

" - and she did two strong hisses and ran away. She didn't run far - just a couple of feet - enough to feel away from him." - OK, pretty good. l like that it was only a few feet. Really great.

"He didn't do his snorting - just a bit of staring - and I called his name a couple of times and threw a treat and then he went for it." - :yess: :hyper: :clap2: Able to big distracted which is awesome.

"Then, with a bit of coaxing, she came back to the gate area and had her treats too (growling all the while)." - AWESOME!!! :yess::hyper::clap2: This is a big deal. And if he was good when she came back it builds that trust.

"So it's like you said - she's building trust, but still reacts when he does something she doesn't like." - Totally fine, it is a process and she is making it.

"She's growing in confidence too re: sleeping outside in the main area. She has a new spot she likes right by the window - and Hawthorne sleeps in it too, so that's good." - Perfect!!!

"That's all for now!" - OK, well, I think this is actually more progress. I am feeling really good with this.

"We'll try next week with just the gate and see how that goes. " - Sounds good. Do it when you feel confident. Just let me know before you do it.

"The other option would be to put a gate on the French door room and continue to do the same thing but just with the gate instead of the door - Hawthorne in the room, her out here. Just a thought. :) " - Great option if it is not too much of a hassle.

"Hope you are having a good weekend! " - With updates like this it makes it great!!! :)

Keep up the great work!!!! You are getting close!!! :)
 
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