Advice for a picky and necessary home cooked cat food

[moderncat2]

I found a cat 7-8 years ago (at 7 months) who seem to throw up all the time immediately after eating.  He would throw up within minutes of eating, so the food was whole, he would swallow more then chew.  He preferred to chew plastic.  It would be food, no furballs.  Years later with blood work and x-rays, nothing coming up.  My vet put him on dry Royal Canin[emoji]174[/emoji] Veterinary Diet Gastrointestinal Fiber Response HF Cat Food.  He did much better for about a year and started throwing up more often.  I added can to his diet,  It did good for a while.  Then i took him to the vet and they said he is pre-kidney disease to only feed can.  Worked but still threw up. 

Now comes the raw experiment.  Tried Rad Cat lamb and Turkey, didn't work, threw up.  So I boiled chicken breast and thigh, it worked, he didn't throw up.  He is very very picky so I was happy he liked something.

QUESTION:  I give him about 2 small servings of boiled chicken (shredded) and about two servings of *Primal Freeze dry Formula (about 2 nuggets)  a day, Is this enough nutrients for a 6-7 lb, 7-8 year old male house cat?   Oh and I would love to give kibble, easier but I read dry food is not good for pre-kidney.  When I go out of town for 2-3 days I like to leave kibble, What is the best and closest to raw in kibble?

*Chicken and Salmon formula.  Add about about 1/4-1/3 cup water to each nugget

Thanks

 

[denice]

You can add a pre-mix to the cooked chicken that will balance it out.  That way he will be getting the necessary nutrients in the proper ratio.  There is a homecooked resources sticky at the top of this forum that has the websites for the different premixes.    You will need to get one with calcium in it because you can't use the cooked bone.  Some of them have the option of getting one with liver powder in it so you don't have to add cooked liver.  Since you are already cooking for him it would just be a matter of getting a gram scale and weighing the meat and pre-mix.  

 

[vball91]

It's hard to telll how much you are serving. Can you weigh the boiled chicken servings? As long as he is maintaining his ideal weight, that's the perfect amount to feed. If he is gaining or losing unwanted weight, then you need to adjust his serving size.

I agree that a premix is a good option. That way you can continue to feed the boiled chicken he likes, properly balanced. Examples of premixes are Wysong Call of the Wild, TCFeline, Alnutrin, BalanceIT. There are some that balance meat only. Others balance meat and organ. Still others, meat and organ and bone. You want to ensure that you get one that balances meat only.

To me, there is no kibble that compares to raw. However, the best kibbles I know of are Wysong Epigen 90, Young Again Zero Carb and Ziwipeak. The Ziwipeak air-dried raw is probably the closest to raw.

 

[moderncat2]

Denice

ah, the scale, already have an excellent one to keep the hubby trim LOL  I will measure

Vball91

Thanks for the exact options, that really helps.

Does anyone think the *Primal Freeze dry Formula (chicken & salmon) is a good addition? Which he is taking two nuggets. or I still need extra ingredients in addition to this?

Ingredients: Chicken, Chicken Necks, Chicken Gizzards, Salmon, Chicken Livers, Organic Kale, Organic Yams, Organic Carrots, Organic Apples, Organic Broccoli, Cranberries, Blueberries, Organic Pumpkin Seeds, Organic Sunflower Seeds, Minerals (Zinc Sulfate, Copper Carbonate, Sodium Selenite), Organic Apple Cider Vinegar, Organic Parsley, Salmon Oil, Taurine, Organic Coconut Oil, Cod Liver Oil, Organic Quinoa Sprout Powder, Dried Organic Kelp, Alfalfa, Natural Vitamin E, Mixed Tocopherols (natural preservative).

I will weigh him in a couple of days, he has always been 6ish lbs, 7 max

 

[peaches08]

Cats can have about 15% of their diet as raw without supplementing it. Hopefully others with kidney cats will chime in, but from my understanding if you have a kidney cat then it is best to stay away from bone and bone meal (phosphorus). I believe eggshell calcium is the better choice; but again I hope the kidney kitty owners can confirm it.

 

[moderncat2]

Tanji, fortunately does not have kidney disease yet.  The vet said he was pre-kidney.  He was on dry Royal Canin prescription.  Since hearing that I swtiched him from dry to can wet to now boiled chicken and Primal.  In 6 month I will take him back for more blood work to see if the food change have changed his future outlook and balanced his numbers.  Thus advice if boiled chicken and Primal together is enough. Thanks  

 

[peaches08]

I'm not sure what is meant by pre-kidney...which values were off? And by how much?

I know some members here have reported that some renal values increase while on raw but NOT due to pathology...it's due to higher protein intake.

 

[moderncat2]

the vet didn't mention any detail so I figured with his food intake at the time was ROYAL CANIN Gastro Intestinal Fiber Response   and since he wasn't doing good and wasn't solving the problem it led me here to make sure I am going more good then damage.

 

[denice]

I looked up the calories for the Primal and it's 161 per ounce.  It says an ounce is about 3 1/2 nuggets.  It sounds like they are getting close to 100 calories from the primal and the primal is a complete freeze dried raw.  Indoor cats generally need about 20 calories per pound of their ideal weight.  For a 7 to 8 pound cat if that is an ideal weight they would need 140 to 160 calories per day.  I think if you balance their shredded chicken with a pre-mix then they should be getting enough calories and the nutrients that they need.  If one of your cats is starting to show signs of kidney deficiency I would go with one that uses egg shell calcium, especially since the primal contains bone meal.  I am pretty sure that TC Feline has an option for both egg shell calcium and liver powder.   Alnutrin has a mix with egg shell calcium but they don't have an option for a premix with liver powder so you would also have to add liver to the mix.  That doesn't bother me but I know a lot of people are repulsed by handling liver.

 

[peaches08]

You can get copies of your cat's files for your own records. I used to do that when searching for answers for Grey (RIP).

 

[ldg]

As Denice says, the Primal is complete and balanced, so you don't need to add anything to that.

But as your kitty may be leaning towards kidney problems, you want to reduce the phosphorus load. Bone is typically a source of calcium in raw feeding, but as peaches08 points out, eggshell is a great source of calcium WITHOUT the phosphorus. And if you cat likes egg whites, substituting about 10% of the meat portion of the diet with egg whites will reduce the phosphorus load further, but keep the protein level high.

But you do need a vitamin mix with calcium for those boiled meats (or the egg whites, if you choose to use some as part of the diet).

If your cat likes liver, the best option is the Alnutrin with eggshell. That can be purchased here: http://www.knowwhatyoufeed.com/shop_online.html

Click on Alnutrin with Calcium, and choose the option for the one with eggshell.

Figure out how much weight of boiled chicken you use, and remove 10% of the chicken, and replace it with liver.

Other supplements to consider that should benefit your cat's health would be salmon oil, 500mg a day if he likes it. The omega 3s are anti-inflammatory.

I suggest you read through some of the links in the Home-cooked resources thread: http://www.thecatsite.com/t/264153/home-cooked-cat-food-resources

There are links to a number of recipes for home-cooked food that is complete and balanced.

 

[moderncat2]

I fed Tanji 7 oz of boiled chicken, shredded.  He threw up minutes later.  so I diced the chicken to bits and pieces.  One of his problems is NOT chewing.   He swallows or eats too fast.  My whole issue is him throwing up. I want to stop it,  I hope dicing to itty bitty bits will solve this problem.

 

[ldg]

Did he keep the diced chicken down?

How long does he go between meals? Is it possible he's regurgitating due to acid build-up? If it IS that, the way to find out is to feed him more frequent smaller meals. You can also try feeding him a snack of something like freeze dried chicken breast - a small bite or two - about 10 minutes or so before the meal.

 

[moderncat2]

So I dropped down from 7 oz to 5 oz of died / minced chicken, he still threw up.  I try to feed him 4 meals a day but he eats when he wants to and rarely ever when I put it down.  He actually didn't eat well today at all.  So now I am at a lost.

 

[ldg]

Wait - 5 ounces of food? Per meal? four meals a day?

How much does he weigh?

Has he always eaten meals this large?

How much does he eat when he throws up? A few bites? The whole meal?

There are raw feeders that feed 6 or 7 ounces a DAY, but those are usually people feeding bone-in meals. My cats range in size from 7 pounds to 13.5 pounds, and they eat between 2.6 ounces a DAY to 4.5 ounces daily. One cat gets 7/8 of an ounce of food at each meal (3 meals a day): she weighs about 8 pounds. I have a 7 1/4 pound cat that eats 1 ounce meals (3 ounces a day).

Have you tried feeding him plain chicken baby food? (Beechnut - Gerber's has corn starch in it now) Just to see if he can keep that down.

Though at some point it seems like "meal times" need to be established rather than leaving the food down... has he ever been given an anti-nausea medication like Cerenia, or an antacid like pepcid a/c (famotidine)?

 

[moderncat2]

Sorry forgot to add point .5. I think my scale is right.  For example one of those 3 oz cans, that would be 3 meals.  No the vet has never given anything for throwing up.  He said you have to give small portions and I thought .7-.5 or even less 1/3 of a 3oz can from the can was little.  I am not home all the time, for example I am gone in the morning 10:00, drive an hour, stay an hour return, maybe have time to come home if not straight to another appointment and won't be home until 5ish due to location and traffic, so I have to leave enough out.  FYI he hasn't thrown up on the Primal freeze dry formula. 1 nugget at a time.  Will weight it after I mix it.

He threw up on his bed, he went to go lay down after he aide and threw up on his bed. 

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• moderncat2
• Oct 2, 2013

 

[ldg]

OK. :lol3: That makes a lot more sense.

So here are the new questions:


How much does he eat when he throws up?

How long after eating does he throw up?

Is it digested, partially digested, or completely undigested?

Have you tried feeding him plain chicken baby food? (Beechnut - Gerber's has corn starch in it now) Just to see if he can keep that down?

If he keeps the Primal down, is there any reason not to feed exclusively that?

And has he ever been given an anti-nausea medication like Cerenia, or an antacid like pepcid a/c (famotidine)?

 

[moderncat2]

He eats about 1 teaspoon, or 1 oz or less when he throws up.  If the food is chunks that's what he throws up.  He doesn't chew his food.

He throws up just minutes, up to 5 minutes after he eats before he throws up.   He usually makes his way off tile where his food is and on carpet when he throws up 

Undigested, full size food, what ever the food looks like in the dish is exactly what it looks like after.

Haven't tried baby food, is that enough or balance nutrient for him?

He rather eat the boiled chicken, and loves it.  He threw up the chicken when it was schredded but since mincing it he hasn't yet threw up.  But he is not a big fan of the Primal, but thus far had kept it down. I can barely get him to eat 2 nuggets a day and it calls for him to eat 3-4 a day

Any medication that goes into his mouth, he throws up.  The vet gave him a pill and while we were on the way home he threw up the pill.  He gave me liquid to put in his mouth, he throws that up within minutes.  When the vet opens his mouth once he won't allow him to do it again, lock jaw. So he doesn't make life easy.

 

[Willowy]

No, baby food isn't complete and balanced (neither is just plain boiled chicken), but if you HAVE to get some food into him it'll be fine for a while.

You can put the chicken into a food processor or blender for the same effect.

 

[moderncat2]

I am going to try to wean him off of chicken then maybe he will just eat Primal without problems.  He was throwing up with .7 oz of food, now I am at .5.  I just wish there was nutritional food he would like that I won't have a problem with him eating or throwing it up.