Adopting/socializing Adult Semi-feral

[loalar]

Introducing the pug to Bob was wonderfully uneventful. They both ignored each other. We will continue to do longer visits. Tabitha is also continuing to do well. She is very sweet and naive and seems to have no clue that other cats may take issue with her running up to them unannounced so she continues to do that and Bob has been letting her.

However we are running into issues with the second cat which is surprising as she was the one who would run over to the window and watch Bob for hours when he was outside. And she would hang out by his door, rolling around after he came inside as long as the door was closed. I was convinced she had a crush on him! But when we have a screen up and she can see him, she hisses and growls and will swat at the other kitty (Tabitha) who she's been living with for years if Tabitha gets too close to her when Bob is in view. Bob, on the other hand, seems completely unaffected by Monet's noises and will go up to the screen to see what's going on. He has not hissed or growled once. I will continue to feed her by Bob's door until she settles down enough that we can try an introduction without the screen.

In other news, I gathered the courage up to pick Bob up today and that was also gloriously uneventful. He was not bothered by it in the least!

 

[weebeasties]

Hi loalar
Just wondering how Bob and the gang are doing now. Has the one kitty ( Monet, isn't it?) started making friends yet? Hope things have continued to go well.

 

[loalar]

Hi weebeasties thanks for checking in! Monet unfortunately continues to growl, hiss and scare Tabitha when eating with Bob in sight so I'm holding off a little longer on bringing them together without a barrier between them. Bob and Houdini (the pug) have progressed nicely though and have been successfully hanging out without a barrier for the past few evenings (about an hour or two at a time). Bob's nails have gotten long and sharp again so we've halted the face to face visits with Tabitha (the Maine Coon) until we get them clipped again (She has no sense of personal space and keeps running up to him like he's a long lost friend which puts him a bit on edge. However other than one low, gutteral meow, he hasn't responded aggressively). We will be getting his nails clipped tomorrow or Tuesday so we can get back to the Tabitha introductions.

As for his progress with us, for the most part, he's been great, albeit a bit needy. He wants to be with us a lot and will meow incessantly when we have to put him back in his room. And when he's out, he has to be right next to one of us at all times. When we take a step forward, he runs in front of our legs and pushes his body against us. When we take a step backward, he runs behind us and does the same thing. It's adorable but makes it very difficult to do anything else! Hopefully once he is able to be out all the time, he will calm down and realize that we aren't going to abandon him. In the past week, he has also swatted me three times when I've started to walk away from him. His claws are sharp again so he has drawn a little blood, but nothing major. I've been doing the firm "no" and he always looks a little ashamed afterwards so I'm really hoping over time (and maybe once we no longer have to put him in his room) that behavior will stop!

Sometimes it feels like we will never get to a point of normalcy where we can allow him free roam without fear for anyone's safety! But then I remind myself that it's only been 2 1/2 months and that we've made huge progress for an adult feral (or stray)... Hoping for a Christmas miracle!

 

[weebeasties]

Thanks so much for the update! Life at our house has been a little crazy for a few weeks, but all of you have been on my mind.
So Monet is still not happy with a new brother, huh? Have you tried letting Bob out of his room and bringing Monet in there while he is gone? You could pet her and give her treats and just let her explore in there so she is smelling him while good things are happening without his physical presence. We also have had good luck brushing them all with their favorite brush. It's actually a human hairbrush with boar bristles. (I think it's boar.) Anyway, it's super soft. It doesn't do much for removing hair, but apparently it feels amazing to them. They all just love it and will rub their cheeks against it. Then when you move on to the next one, they are smelling the others scent on it and adding their own. I really think that was what got Sunshine to accept the kittens we adopted last year. She will lay with Sam and groom him now, but in the beginning she was not happy. After I got that brush she really warmed up to him.
As for Bob being needy/occasionally swatting, I think you are absolutely right that he is still worrying about being abandoned. It's just gonna take time. You guys have done an amazing job and the proof of that is how attached Bob is to you.
Tabitha is so cute! All sweet and loving and wide-eyed innocence. What a precious girl.
I know you are hoping for a Christmas miracle, but I hope you can see that you and your husband have already performed a miracle yourselves! You have saved Bob's life and shown him what love is. You took a frightened feral and earned his trust. All that seems pretty miraculous to me!

 

[msaimee]

I think taking Bob out of his room sometimes and letting Monet and the others into his room is a really good idea, and what I've done when bringing a new cat into my house. The resident cats miss the room that's been closed off to them, that's their territory too, after all, and that can increase stress. Also, try adding something new and fun to the room like new catnip toys or a small cat tree. You can also try to engage the cats together with interactive play with a wand toy or laser toy in the room. Make positive new associations with the new cat and the resident cats in that room. Finally, sooner or later we have to trust the cats to work it out among themselves - - and they will. There may be some batting and hissing for a bit, but they will work out their own social structure. As long as no one gets seriously injured, I wouldn't worry about it. My 6 pound girl kitty jumps on my 13 pound guy kitty and chases him around and they bat at each other, and ten minutes later they're nuzzled together on the couch. Go figure.

 

[loalar]

Thank you both for the suggestions! We have been letting them into each others' spaces and I've been rubbing all of their cheeks and bodies with towels to mix their scents as well as doing the vanilla extract trick. I will definitely give the brush thing a try as well! I've introduced several sets of cats in the past and it's always gone well (Monet hissed at Tabitha for about two months when we first brought Tabitha into the fold but we knew it was harmless as there was no flattening of the ears and no attempts at physical attacks). And the two of them wrestle and play up a storm now. This one is a bit different. Monet was never physically aggressive with Tabitha, but with Bob, she has lunged at the screen when Bob has been behind it so until I am fairly certain she won't do that when face to face, we are not taking the next step with her. Bob doesn't lunge back, but he also doesn't shy away. Tabitha is definitely sweet and loving and wide-eyed in her innocence so I'm not at all concerned about the two of them.

But on the progress front, they all ate separated by a screen this morning with zero hissing or growling which is officially the first time so hopefully Monet is finally starting to calm down. I'll try to give Monet more time in his room (which is filled with new fun things-a large cat tree, a second scratching post, lots of catnip toys, boxes and crinkly paper to play with and in!) and add in some brushing which Monet already enjoys daily but we haven't done it with Bob yet.

 

[weebeasties]

Yay! A family dinner where nobody started an argument! There's a lot of humans that can't accomplish that!
Give a little time and a lot of love and things will work out.

 

[loalar]

Well today did not go well. It started out great. Bob went into his carrier with no fuss, I took him to get his nails trimmed and again no fuss. Not a peep at the vet's office. He came back and was super lovable and affectionate and happy. We decided to let him out of the room with Tabitha and he full on stalked her and attacked her. We shook a can of coins which distracted him momentarily and Tabitha ran into the other room, but he chased her in there, cornered her and attacked her again. I threw a pillow between them, scooped Tabitha up and took her into the other room. Bob then hissed at us and went back into his room where he is now. It does not appear that Tabitha was hurt. I don't see any signs of blood or trauma, but she is now very jumpy and confused. I feel so bad for her! She was so sweet and really wanted to hang out with him. And up til now, it didn't seem like there would be any issues with the two of them, just Bob and Monet. Any suggestions?

 

[weebeasties]

Oh no! Poor Tabitha! I'm so sorry this happened. This has to be stressful for everyone.
This seems to be very out of character for Bob from everything we've heard. His behavior would make more sense if he was highly stressed and nervous from the vet visit, but you say he was calm and happy...
It's so darn hard to try and psychoanalyze (sp?) a cat!
Ok, here is a theory that is probably wrong, but it's the best I can come up with at the moment.
His behavior would be more understandable if he was super stressed, right? He had a big, eventful day where he had some weird, scary stuff happen all the while seeing strange people, smelling strange smells. It was a lot to deal with. Then he finally gets back home and is so relieved to be there. This idea of "home" is still so new to him. He's already dealing a little with abandonment issues. He's happy to be home and with mom but how long is it going to last? Are they going to take me away again? When? Are they going to leave me there? I just want to be in my home with my mom and dad. I love you. Pet me. Love me. Reassure me.

What I'm trying so say in my long - winded way is that maybe he was a lot more stressed out than he seemed. For instance when people set off fireworks on the 4th my cats go into hiding until it's over. Then they come out and are super lovey and talkative. They may seem happy but they aren't. They are still weirded out. They want comforted and reassured that everything is all right and the world has now returned to normal.
So maybe Bob was super stressed and just needed more time to decompress? He is still learning to navigate this new world, after all.
Then again this all may be utter hogwash. In my defense, I've been up for about 22 hours right now so I'm pretty certain if I reread this in the morning it will be rambling and incoherent.
A good idea would be for you to start a thread about this incident in the stray and feral or behavior section. There are a lot of experts that have experience and better insights than I.
I'm so sorry I rambled on so long without any helpful advice.
I hope tomorrow goes better. Please give poor Tabitha a hug from me.

 

[loalar]

Thank you and I will definitely read thru the stray/feral behavior section to see if anyone else has had similar experiences and start a new thread. You're probably right in that he may have been more stressed by the vet visit than it appeared. I probably should've given him a day to decompress. Everyone seemed calmer at dinner time, but I had the screen up between them. Tabitha finished her dinner, went up to the screen to look for Bob who was out of sight at the time, but when he came towards the screen, she quickly backed away. Monet did hiss and growl once, but only while eating. When she finished, she laid down close to the screen and just quietly watched Bob which was unusual and interesting as he was fairly close. If only I could get inside their minds!

 

[msaimee]

When a cat returns from a vet visit, he returns with all kinds of unfamiliar scents on him from bring exposed to other cats and dogs in the office, from being touched by strange people, etc. That can be upsetting to the other resident cats, and can also put him out of sorts. I usually rub down my cats with a moist towel after a vet visit. So that may be part of it. The other factor may be that he was very stressed from the vet visit and had some displaced anger he was taking out on the other kitty. I notice that my alpha male cat does this. If he's upset with me for holding him too long or grooming him, etc. he'll go after another cat and bat at him or her and take it out on the other cat instead of on me (because I'm "head cat" in the household). This may be part of what's going on. The other issue may be jealousy. He doesn't want to share you with the other cats. This should get better with time. If he establishes himself as the dominant cat and the others fall in line, then it will resolve sooner rather than later. Part of the adjustment involved in adding another cat to a household is the restructuring of social hierarchy and territory. They almost always work it out in time, so I wouldn't be too discouraged.

 

[loalar]

msaimee That makes a lot of sense! He knows he can't take it out on the vet or on us, so he goes after Tabitha who is definitely bottom of the hierarchy. Poor Tabitha. It's interesting, when she originally came into the fold, I already had Monet and I had another cat, Boomer who was older, male and in his final days. Boomer was the head cat at the time and Monet worshipped him. When he passed, Monet looked to Tabitha to take over the head position, but Tabitha just wants to sleep, eat and be pet so being head cat seemed like too much work and was of no interest to her. Monet finally took it upon herself. I'm sure Bob has noticed Monet push Tabitha away to eat out of her bowl when they all eat with the screen separation so he knows she's the pushover and easy pickings. I'm not giving up, just going to maybe put Tabitha on a harness and leash next time so she can't run over to him. As for Bob establishing himself as the dominant cat, he may have to fight Monet for the position. I am really not looking forward to that. She's half his size!

 

[msaimee]

Size doesn't always matter. Female cats can be quite feisty. I already mentioned that my 6 pound girl cat chases and jumps on my 13 pound male cat. It has to do more with personality than size.

One thing I would recommend is to have a few different feeding stations, if possible, or at least three different bowls of food at one station. I have five cats and three different feeding stations, and I leave out dry food 24/7, so there are no stressors concerning access to food or competition for food or space. It's important for your three to know that they are not in competition with each other for food.

Also, you might need to define yourself as the "alpha cat" with Bob. My alpha cat, Harry, would be quite aggressive to the others if I had not established myself as "the boss of him." If he becomes too rough with one of the others, I will say his name very loudly in a stern voice, or clap my hands, and sometimes I will even make a hissing sound to him. He was once a feral kitten, and his feral papa cat, who raised him outside for the first three months of his life, was the alpha cat in the neighborhood. So it's kind of in Harry's genes to be in charge. But I have socialized him very well, so even when he gets too rough, he does not actually hurt the other cats.

It may be a rough five or six months while your three cats adjust to each other, but they will. Indoor cats, unlike outdoor cats, know they have to share the same space and have to negotiate with each other. When you get to the point where they could be in the same room together, encourage interactive play between the three of them and yourself, using a wand toy and laser toy. Give them all treats at the same time. If your cats are like my cats, they will have different preferences, so they may each prefer a different kind of treat or flavor. That will help lessen competition. It will take time, but it is well worth the effort. I have five very different cats, four rescued from the outside, and I enjoy them individually and together. Each cold winter night, I give each of them a special kiss and hug, because I know I rescued them, and they are safe and well fed and warm and dry. I wouldn't have it any other way. What you are doing for Bob is wonderful. Keep up the good work.

 

[weebeasties]

I don't think any of our cats consider themselves alpha cat. ( Or perhaps each one THINKS they are the alpha and would be surprised anyone would suggest otherwise.) Then we adopted Isabelle. Teeny, tiny little thing but with a Huge personality. I think she felt there was no one "in charge" so she stepped up.
The problem I had with this was that she was sort of intimidating 2 of our shyer cats by chasing them. She was making them nervous and jumpy. None of my tactics to distract her when she was doing this made a difference.
Things settled down when she got out of the kitten stage and I could stop free feeding and put her on scheduled meal times like the others. When I put down the food dishes, hers always is LAST. It took maybe a month of doing this before she started to realize that maybe she wasn't the most important person in the room. She stopped chasing/ stalking the others and recently I have spotted them sleeping close to one another. Progress.

 

[maggiedemi]

My boy cat is weird, he doesn't care about being alpha cat. He loves his sister cat so much. She likes to punch him in the face, but he doesn't care, he still loves her and wants to be around her 24/7. Does that mean that she's alpha cat?

 

[loalar]

Thanks for the tips msaimee ! I think you're right about us needing to establish ourselves as dominant. I think we've tiptoed around him a bit too much. We rush to let him out when he meows, we pet him on demand and probably give him treats a bit too often. He was swatting us if we walked away before he was ready for us to leave but thankfully that hasn't happened in a while (that is the only time I would give him a firm "NO" and leave the room or stand still and stare at him until he backed away). But he does still block our path by pressing against us or laying down in front of where we are trying to walk if he doesn't want us to go and we haven't corrected this behavior. We've basically been giving him everything he wants in an effort to make him feel secure and loved but perhaps it's time to let him know he is not the boss of the household.

And weebeasties I have been feeding him first, waiting until he's settled into his bowl then letting the others out to eat which perhaps is adding to his feelings of dominance!

 

[weebeasties]

My boy cat is weird, he doesn't care about being alpha cat. He loves his sister cat so much. She likes to punch him in the face, but he doesn't care, he still loves her and wants to be around her 24/7. Does that mean that she's alpha cat?

Maybe alpha...maybe just annoyed.

 

[weebeasties]

Hi loalar
Hope you and your family had a pleasant holiday. Are the introductions still a little difficult? I hope Tabitha has maintained her sweet, optimistic outlook despite the others' uneasiness with one another.

 

[loalar]

Thank you weebeasties ! Holidays were good. How were yours?

We've cooled it on the introductions for a bit as there is still a bit of aggression going on with the screen barrier. I'm figuring better too slow than too fast. But they all do get to see each other through the screen at least twice a day while eating and we have started brushing them all with the same brush. Bob hasn't been as excited about coming out of his room since the scuffle with Tabitha either so we've been having to coax him out for some house exploration time each day. He would much rather we go in and spend time with him in his room.

But on the human front, things continue to progress. He has started crawling into our laps and my husband took a mini nap with him today which he absolutely loved! And I've been successfully picking him up briefly, carrying him to a different part of the room and setting him down without him swatting me. He lifts his paw occasionally like he's considering it but then controls himself so that's good!

 

[weebeasties]

It's understandable that Bob loves it when you are in his room. That's his domain, he's comfortable, and he doesn't have to share you with anyone.
When a cat is in the wild they have to compete with other cats for food and other resources. Bob has probably figured out that the food is going to keep coming. I wonder if he is thinking he has to compete with the others for your attention?
It's a tricky situation. How to make everyone feel special without jealousy setting in.
I totally get that you don't want to push anything too fast. I would just try to get him used to sharing you. Monet and Tabitha are old pros at this, but it's something new for him. Maybe you could play with Monet and Tabitha in front of his screen door so that he could observe how they do it? Then play with him for a few minutes, then go back to the other two. Just anything to get him used to sharing so he doesn't develop a "me versus them" mentality.