2 Very Pregnant Foster Mamas, Couple of Questions

[HeyKat]

Aww so sweet. The moms look quite similar. I wonder if they're sisters?

You could try moving your nesting box so the entrance is right next to the cardboard house. Is the nesting box covered? They probably feel the smaller house is safe.

I wouldn't worry too much though. They'll move if and when they feel it's necessary.

 

[Umerwhat]

From talking to the lady who cares for them, they're most likely sisters from different litters. The wall I knocked down does open up into the nesting box, so it's easy for the moms to get in, but probably not the babies as it's slightly uphill.

I did get to weigh several, though I'm not feeling confident on identifying a couple of them correctly again. Ella was not happy, but I don't think she has it in her to bite. Elizabeth seemed too tired to care as long as I didn't touch her. Pardon my terrible naming schemes.

White Tip: 103g
Dark Gray: 110g
Light Gray: 81g
Narrow Stripped Chonker: 116g
Brown Gray Stripes: 95g
Brown Gold Stripes: 104g
Very Dark: 100g

The gray ones were born yesterday, otherwise I only can confirm White Tip was born today. None of the bellies felt totally empty, but only the Chonker's really felt full. If it wasn't for Light Gray, I wouldn't be worried. Should I start to supplement that one? If so, how often?

The mom's do not seem to be intentionally neglecting any. Though it was a mix of adorable and concerning to see 2 babies already smacking each other over a nipple. Sometimes I do hear babies crying more often than I like, other times it seems to be quiet for hours. I suspect if they all get a good feed in depends on how the mamas lay down. Ella looks like a pro and had 6 on her earlier. Elizabeth seems less enthusiastic as she gets up more frequently to escape the kittens. Still not totally sure if there's 9 total or what.

 

[Margot Lane]

Out of curiosity does each kitten stay with one mom, or do they swap out milk bars?

 

[Umerwhat]

Out of curiosity does each kitten stay with one mom, or do they swap out milk bars?

They swap freely between mamas as far as I can tell. Ella also seems to be doing the brunt of the work. I hope it's just Elizabeth still recovering, because she only seems to be there feeding them 30% of the time. Ella is feeding them almost constantly.

 

[Margot Lane]

Pore Ella! Well I know you’re a good momma too, just from the photos & the calcium rich food she gets!

 

[Sarthur2]

Keep an eye on Light Gray and if he/she is not gaining, then supplement 2-3 times per day.

Try to get an overall count of total kittens if/when you can, but don’t sweat it.

With 2 mamas co-parenting, the kittens should be able to get to one milk bar or the other several times a day to nurse. Do still weigh as you can and attempt to identify each kitten to the extent possible.

Elizabeth may need 2-3 days to get her strength up, so it’s good Ella can pick up the slack in the interim, but in the long run, both moms should be nursing. Watch carefully.

 

[Umerwhat]

I did check Light Gray just now and she had a very full belly. So I'll wait and see how she looks in the morning. I'm trying to keep an eye out to see if there are any other runts. Light Gray is Ella's runt, don't know if Elizabeth had one as well.

I will continue to watch them on camera throughout the day. Elizabeth is nursing, it just feels kind of half-assed? Like she has had so many litters she feels done with it. I really thought Ella was going to be the one okay with me handling the kittens, but she's an anxious mess when I touch them. Elizabeth just sits there and stares. Almost like she's making sure I put them back when I'm done.

 

[Sarthur2]

Elizabeth sounds either frightened, exhausted, or defeated. Poor gal. Try giving her a dish or two a day of kitten formula to drink to bolster her calcium reserves. Also, try offering her Gerber chicken or turkey meat baby food in a dish just for her. It’s high protein and cats usually really love it.

For that matter, give Ella the same kitten formula and Gerber since she’s picking up the slack. Both need extra calcium and protein to handle these new litters. It’s not easy.

Thankfully, both will be spayed eventually and never have to go through this hardship again. The moms need special attention now and extra food. Boil some chicken with nothing but salt added. Offer boiled shredded chicken and broth. Hard for most cats to resist. Pregnancy and birthing are hard work and draining. You’re the doula who needs to cater to them so that they have the energy and milk to nurse the babies.

Also, handle the babies gently, softly, and with slow movements so as not to frighten either mom. Give it time. Hopefully all will be well. New moms are particularly nervous in the 2-3 days after giving birth.

U Umerwhat

 

[Umerwhat]

I fed the mamas some canned chicken breast and KMR this morning. Elizabeth does look to be nursing more so far today. Light Gray's belly felt full again this morning. Unfortunately Ella has been fleeing when I come in(she goes back to the kittens as soon as I leave). It did finally let me take a head count of the kittens though. 9 confirmed. No one was mewing, so I hope they all just had a good feed when I walked in.

 

[StefanZ]

81 grammes isnt too bad, so DO keep your eye, if he doesnt add in a day or at most 2, than its time to supplement / handfeed.

If he manages with momma and adds, its better not to stress momma. Also, handfeeding although often necessary, DOES have some risks too if you arent very experienced...

Raise should be minimum 6 grammes a day, but we are happy first when it becomes 10+ grammes. Some kittens adds more and its OK.

 

[StefanZ]

ps. If kmr to mommas is pricey for you, you can always try with goats milk. Cheaper and should work too.

 

[Umerwhat]

I'm conflicted on what to think. This morning Elizabeth was a champ and feeding them with Ella. Then she took a 3 hour nap away from the kittens and boy were there some hangry kittens. I didn't know they could be so rambunctious at that age. 3 kittens yelling and batting at each other for 1 nipple. By the time I got home from work, both were nursing and the babies were happy again.

I'm afraid any time I go in, I'm interrupting them nursing. I think I'll wait to go in during the few times neither are nursing. Hopefully I can weigh and start identifying some tonight besides the grays. I do have experience with syringe feeding with a miracle nipple, but I honestly dread it. It's so hard the first few times getting them used to it.

 

[Margot Lane]

The kitten lady does have a video for identifying kittens with her lipstick, but, those look to be older, in the video, and probably easier & safer to handle. (I like your ID names, anyway). I vote you keep every single one and send us lots of photos.

 

[Umerwhat]

The mamas have both been nursing the last few hours. So when I went to check on them, they were all on the fuller side. Ella wasn't thrilled again, so I didn't stick around too long. Everyone I weighed was at 105 or higher except Light Gray.

Light Gray: 92g
Brown Gold Stripes(male): 131g

I mainly tried to weigh the smaller looking ones, but noticed Gold Stripes was looking chonky. Maybe I had a smaller gold one yesterday? The other is not as bright though. Anyways they all look pretty good as far as I can tell. Even had one hiss at me.

 

[Umerwhat]

I must have stressed Ella too much as she tried to move the kittens. I'm kicking myself now for leaving the second cardboard house in there. It won't fit 2 adult cats plus kittens without breaking. I put in a better nest. They finally accepted it, but were extremely slow to bring the kittens in. I eventually put the remaining 3 at the edge of nest and they crawled right in. I'm a little concerned those 3 belonged to Elizabeth and she couldn't be bothered to fetch her kids. I saw her walk up to one, lick its head and be like "eh, you look fine." and walk away. This whole fiasco lasted almost 3 hours and the babies bellies didn't feel terribly full at the start either. I hope they're making up for lost time.

Unfortunately I think this means I can't handle the babies for now without Ella freaking out. Is it best to leave the kittens be for at least the next few days and hope the 2 can figure it out? I'm still worried how much Elizabeth is helping.

 

[Umerwhat]

Ella moved them again. This time between the toilet and wall. I don't think there's enough room for both moms to feed at the same time. I don't want to stress her out again so soon. I'm going to give it a few hours and if there are still a lot of mews, I'll start feeding the kittens on the outskirts without full bellies. Just not sure what else to do at this point.

 

[Umerwhat]

Finally, I think the mamas settled on a spot. There was more mewing yesterday than I was comfortable with, but since last night, everyone seems calm and content.

Weighing has been erratic, as I'm afraid of prompting them to move again. I believe I weighed Brown Gray Stripes at 110g last night. Another was 124g, but not sure which one. But I believe they're both from Elizabeth, the 2 day old litter(now 3 days today). I'm really hoping the mamas will chill once they've stayed in this new box a couple days. I definitely want to be able to handle them regularly once their eyes start opening.

 

[fionasmom]

Be cautious with trying to touch the kittens, but I have had more than one feral mom (outside litters at that) allow me to handle their babies as the days went on.

 

[Umerwhat]

Mini update, kittens are either 6 or 7 days old. Kittens have been looking full and happy. I weighed a couple just now. Possibly the smallest looking of the group was 172g(may have been Brown Gray Stripes). The Dark Gray kitten, which is one of the bigger ones is a 192g female. Well I think it was Dark Gray. I would be amazed if Light Gray gained so much.

Anyways, I'm going to try to be a bit more invasive today as I look for anyone with eyes opening. I think I saw one on camera starting to wink a little with one eye. Hopefully I'll have more weights and identified kittens later. The mamas seem a little more chill today. Which oddly may be because my one male cat came in with me. He was neutered before puberty and he is the most gentle boy. Ella keeps flirting with him.

Off topic, but anyone know how much rotisserie chicken you can give cats before salt is a concern? I usually only give a few bites for that reason.

 

[fionasmom]

For me, the use of other spices/garlic and onions would be a concern. I feed my cats plain chicken that I make for them (cooked), but not the other kinds which are pre-made.