Declaw or no cat!

Fine, I WON"T get a cat then. Is everyone happy now? Because its clear that only you people can own cats and nobody else has the right! I come on here just to get yelled at becuase I even mentioned declawing! I did my research, and personally I think you people overblow a lot of your info. Most of you are just a bunch of bullies who think you know it all just because you've owned a cat, and I havent!

I am only getting the cat at 8 weeks not because "I want it now", only at the recomendation of the farms owners ho says she gives away all her kittens at 8 weeks and not once has there been an incident.

You people also talk about me like I'm some kind of monster! I have the right to own a pet just like anyone else does!

And just to play devils advocate: Isn't spaying/neutering just as much mutilation as declawing? Yes, there is a population problem, but you are actually taking away more of the cat by euthenization than you are by declawing!

Any other problems with me as a person?

buffalo-mitch, I tried to send you a PM but I couldn't. Please PM me if you want.

Originally Posted by buffalo-mitch

Fine, I WON"T get a cat then. Is everyone happy now? Because its clear that only you people can own cats and nobody else has the right! I come on here just to get yelled at becuase I even mentioned declawing! I did my research, and personally I think you people overblow a lot of your info. Most of you are just a bunch of bullies who think you know it all just because you've owned a cat, and I havent!

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Oh stop. Just stop. Clearly you have not at all done any research because you have another thread open in the section with 20 questions that could easily be answered by a Cat expert book or Google.

No one here thinks themselves high and mighty cat owners of the Gods. It is you. You are your own problem. You clearly display how under-prepared you are to become a cat owner. And while most, no, ALL the members of this forum are more than happy to dispense advice, suggestions and kind words. No one here wants to idly stand by and praise someone who does not have the proper mindset to take care of a cat.

Everything you have posted about declawing and per your convenience, which is a selfish way to think. A proper animal should be trained, but never should it have it's a essential nature taken away. And everything else you posted about going ahead and doing it against better advice and cautions has simply screamed "I am doing this because I want it. Not because I think it's good for the kitten."

Because the bottom line is that this kitten is not an any immediate danger, but you want it anyway. Even if it means not giving her enough attention because you are in high school and just received your license, even if it means declawing her, even if it means not giving her enough time with her momma to be properly socialized. (And believe me, I am finding out how important that it, when I have a now 6 week old kitten who isn't cleaning herself)

Just because you asked for advice and didn't receive the answers you want to hear, you are in turn making a villain of everyone else and it's wrong. No one here is a bully. No one here wants anyone to suffer or be upset. And that includes all the cats in question. We don't want to hear about a kitten suffering just because you don't have the ideal home for one right now, but are determined to get her anyway. We'd rather hear about that kitten getting spayed and taking care of herself as a barn kitty.

And I'm not about to pretend that a board full of strangers with strong opinions will change your mind about getting a kitten. I can only hope you step back and really think about what's best for the kitten.

AND:
Just to play Devil's Advocate, men and women choose to de-sex themselves frequently, seeking out either a vasectomy or hysterectomy respectively. You do not, however, see many people asking doctors to cut off their toes because they are tired of the nails growing or being so ugly looking in sandals.

Originally Posted by buffalo-mitch

And just to play devils advocate: Isn't spaying/neutering just as much mutilation as declawing? Yes, there is a population problem, but you are actually taking away more of the cat by euthenization than you are by declawing!

Any other problems with me as a person?

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It's an old tired argument. Spaying and neutering benefits the health and well being of the cat, and all the cats the de-sexing saves the cat from producing.

A cat doesn't walk on her uterus, she walks on her toes.

I'm sorry you feel defensive. You might instead choose to feel flattered that we care enough and take you seriously enough to speak honestly to you.

Having a pet is a big responsibility, a kitten is a living breathing feeling being, and your posts make you sound like you don't understand that. You speak of "keeping it off the furniture" as if you think of a kitten as some kind of mechanical toy that you can put where you want and it will stay there.

We are only trying to help you understand that taking this kitten is a very big deal, it takes a lot of time and commitment to raise an 8 week old baby kitten. A LOT.

If you browse the forums you will find many threads from people frustrated and ready to chuck their kittens because they did not understand this before adopting the kitten.

It's heart breaking.

So your automatically writing me off to take care of the kitten because I have a license and I'm in high school!? I'm sure you have license and may have owned a cat while you were in high school. And you most certainly are bullies, all of page 5 is just bashing me about how I cant take care of a cat right. And how are you so sure that there will not be a good ending to me having a cat! I do intend to prove you wrong, not out out smyte (if thats how you spell it) but because I want to have a pet that I can love and nurture. And obviously that means that not everything will be a grwat time with my cat, but that wont bother me and I will press on.

Ok, so maybe my posts dont come across that I seem like I can be caring and I'm sorry for those descrponcies (again, not sure if thats spelled right). I will have the stamina to take care of the cat which is why I intend to go to my local shelter a lot next week to really see what its like to handle a kitten. I know, thats not a perfect match but its the closest thing I could come up with. And I would never just dump a cat. NEVER NEVER NEVER. I'm heartbroken at those shelters and when I see cats on the street.

And I wasnt really serious with the spay/neuter arguement, I just got a little mad. Obvisously cats need to be euthanized

Originally Posted by buffalo-mitch

So your automatically writing me off to take care of the kitten because I have a license and I'm in high school!? I'm sure you have license and may have owned a cat while you were in high school. And you most certainly are bullies, all of page 5 is just bashing me about how I cant take care of a cat right. And how are you so sure that there will not be a good ending to me having a cat! I do intend to prove you wrong, not out out smyte (if thats how you spell it) but because I want to have a pet that I can love and nurture. And obviously that means that not everything will be a grwat time with my cat, but that wont bother me and I will press on.

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No. I was not allowed to have pets while I was in school, with the exception of hamsters and fish. And I know how badly I wanted a puppy. I could count on all my fingers how many of my friends had dogs. But you know what? My parents were right. I was in high school, two years away from going to college, and had just gotten my license. I would not have had time to cat for a cat or a dog. And if I had gotten one, it would have been neglected as I went out with friends or to school functions, and I would have had to leave it behind when I went to college.

So yes. I will count those things against you. Because in addition to being in high school, you do not have your own space and your own funds to care for the kitten. What you say does not go, what your parents say do. And they just bought 7k worth of furniture. The minute the kitten begins scratching the side of it, what happens then?

Your life situation in simply not ideal or conducive to raising a kitten right now.

And page 5 is all about what is best for the kitten. And you keep talking about what is best for you. When you, yourself have made it clear that you are not ready for this kind of responsibility through your words "Calling the kitten and "it", stating your parents want it declawed because of the furniture but that's a-okay as long as you still get a kitten, ect.) and through your actions, AKA saying you've done your research but posting topics like this and the other thread.

Bare bones: You are not a good candidate for a kitten right now. You just don't want to hear it. An older cat would be better suited to your lifestyle right now. Or a different kind of animal. That is what I am saying.

Euthanized means to be put to sleep. Spaying/neutering is the act of "fixing" a cat.

Originally Posted by buffalo-mitch

Ok, so maybe my posts dont come across that I seem like I can be caring and I'm sorry for those descrponcies (again, not sure if thats spelled right). I will have the stamina to take care of the cat which is why I intend to go to my local shelter a lot next week to really see what its like to handle a kitten. I know, thats not a perfect match but its the closest thing I could come up with. And I would never just dump a cat. NEVER NEVER NEVER. I'm heartbroken at those shelters and when I see cats on the street.

And I wasnt really serious with the spay/neuter arguement, I just got a little mad. Obvisously cats need to be euthanized

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(Euthanizing means "putting to sleep" or in bald words, killing. I think you mean "sterilized" which is what spay and neuter is. )

Okay, good I'm glad you aren't going to flounce off in a huff, because you and your kitten are going to need the members here! It's good you are asking questions, but ....you have to take the answers and advice to heart, or it does no good, you know? If you get defensive every time someone tries to help you, things can fall apart very fast.

The people here have a lot of experience and knowledge. Not all of us are the best with delivery, we (and I am speaking for myself now) tend get too involved and worry about the cat, even a cat we don't know, we worry and care.

Do get some of the reading material recommended in this thread. Amy Shojai's Complete Kitten Care is one I would recommend.

http://www.amazon.com/Complete-Kitte...0181003&sr=1-2

You can probably find it in a library or put it on your kindle.

But you really do need to understand that a kitten is a living thing, not a toy. Her needs MUST come before your own. If she is sick, you can't go out and party with your friends, you need to stay home and take care of your cat. It doesn't matter if you are tired or have home work or want to go to the game, you need to stay home and play with the kitten. And so on and so forth.

Originally Posted by buffalo-mitch

So your automatically writing me off to take care of the kitten because I have a license and I'm in high school!? I'm sure you have license and may have owned a cat while you were in high school. And you most certainly are bullies, all of page 5 is just bashing me about how I cant take care of a cat right. And how are you so sure that there will not be a good ending to me having a cat! I do intend to prove you wrong, not out out smyte (if thats how you spell it) but because I want to have a pet that I can love and nurture. And obviously that means that not everything will be a grwat time with my cat, but that wont bother me and I will press on.

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First of all, no one is writing you off. We're still responding to your posts and answering your questions.

Secondly, there are few boards that contain as many caring, well-meaning and knowledgeable members as you will find here on TCS. You asked us, "Should I get a cat that I may need to declaw, or get no cat at this time?" and then proceeded to ignore pretty much every bit of advice that didn't fit with your personal desire to obtain a kitten.

Finally - and I truly hope you hear this - "loving and nurturing" includes putting off getting a pet when the well-being of that pet will be put secondary to the condition of the furniture of said pet's "home". Your parents value their furniture (after recently spending $7K on it, I can totally see why), so it makes more sense from the perspective of the well-being of a new cat to wait until you have your own place and can allow the cat to be a cat, OR get a cat that is already declawed. Alternatively, you could try to educate your parents on declawing with the hope of obtaining their enlightened promise to keep the kitty, all claws intact, forever, no matter what.

I believe, from some of your comments here and in your other thread (heck, from the fact you came here looking for info at all!) that you want to do the best you can by your new cat.

I also think that there's a strong chance you want the kitty so much, you aren't able to really hear everything being said. We aren't attacking you, your desire to have a cat, or your ability to care for a cat.... we're giving you the best information we can and, under your particular circumstances, that means we're recommending you either get an older, calmer and possibly already declawed kitty in need of a home, or wait until you have primary control and can make decisions on the kitty's welfare.

In regards to your "never, never, never", I'm very sorry, Buffalo-mitch, but you are just not in a position to make that choice. Your parents are. And if they decide the kitten is causing too much damage to their furniture, they will be making some other decisions about the kitten that you won't be able to control or change.

It's that scenario we foresee. We've been there before, and we're trying to prevent it from happening again.

If you can talk to your parents and get their consent / acceptance to deal with everything having a kitten entails, I think you'd make a perfect cat parent... and later, when you can make your own decisions, I'm quite sure you'll be an even better cat parent.

<<<Hugs>>> for the difficulty this is all causing you.

Best regards.

AC

I am not sure at what age kittens really learn how to retract their claws well...but as I type this my entire left calf is scratched up in long red scratches from my orphaned kittens. They are 5-6 weeks old and in the past month of bottle feeding, they get quite rambunctious when one is drinking and another one wants the bottle, and have scratched quite a bit. They aren't trying to, and didn't mean to but the thing with kittens is that they will scratch without meaning to when they are young. And when they start learning to scratch at furniture, scratching posts, wicker baskets, carpet etc...they will want to do it often! It's fun for kittens. So yes, a scratching post will help, and training will help but a kitten is a lot of work and they sure are playful for the 1st year. Just the running around, jumping on things, rolling etc can leave scratches on furniture. I don't know if you and your parents realize that?
I am certainly not trying to judge, or change your mind from wanting a kitten but I do think you and you parents both need to read up on kittens a little bit, and really really prepare yourself for what a kitten is really like. Yeah, they are adorable, playful and the cutest things in the world BUT they also take a lot of work in training and teaching them proper behavior! And kittens that don't have other cats to play with will get bored easy so make sure to have a LOT of toys and things for them to play with...
Also, is the kitten going to be left alone for the entire day while people are working and at school? How will the kitten be kept of furniture in that case?

I understand you are frustrated...you are certainly not hearing what you wanted to hear it seems. However, most people on here have cared for numerous cats in their lifetime and are trying to save you, your family and a defenseless cat from having to endure pain. Because it would certainly be sad for a cat to be given away after bonding with a family, because of scratching furniture. And people are trying to educate you on declawing so that you are more informed, they are not trying to treat you poorly, but instead give facts. Bottom line, having a kitten is a lot of work and not all fun & games & cuteness. Please try to take the advice without being snappy, people are not acting like you are dumb they are merely trying to offer suggestions to you for things that both you and your family need to think of before bringing a pet into the home.
(Wanted to also add....hubby and I just moved into a new home...complete w/ new furniture, new bed, new carpeting and all that stuff....that cats I swear saw it all as new toys even though we have been working with them for ages on not scratching. We filled a spray bottle w/ water and when they scratch we say NO loudly as we spray them. Our couch is 2 months old so far and has just a few small scratches on it thanks to us being diligent, firm and using the same discipline each time. Find a method to discourage scratching and stick with it but remember, cats make mistakes too, esp. little kittens who are still learning!)
good luck with everything!

Another aspect that hasn't yet been touched on, except lightly, is the early age of the kitten combined with your current intention of only taking in one of the siblings.

Kittens, even those who go to their new homes at the recommended age of 12 weeks, do much better when adopted out in pairs. So much so, in fact, that many adoption agencies will ONLY adopt them out in pairs (or to homes that already contain cats).

Kittens are incredibly rambunctious, active and curious. If they don't have someone, like a second kitten, with whom to interact and burn off all that energy, they will most definitely find other ways to entertain themselves, almost always to the despair of the kitten's owners.

Even with the best of intentions, you can't be there to play with your kitten enough to compensate for the lack of a playmate. Your heart is in the right place, Buffalo-mitch, it's just the timing and your parents viewpoints that are at issue.

Have you considered fostering and/or actively working with shelters to get cats and kittens adopted into new homes?

AC

It stuck in my mind how you say: "I have a right to have a cat", in my opinion, you don't have a cat to make yourself happy of because you have a right, you have it beucause you want to care for the kitty and you want to protect him, make him happy and love him. Getting a pet is such a big responsibility and you have to be ready for it, not everybody should get a cat just because they have the right, there's so much involved. I don't understand why you are so angry, we are just trying to make you see that things are not that simple and you should think about it before adopting that kitten. he or she could be with someone else who doesn't have a problem with his/her claws, then that baby could be happy.

Let me ask you some very real questions - think about it:

1. What happens if this kitten doesn't learn how to scratch the right places, no matter what you do? What happens if it takes a liking to your mom's favorite couch?
2. To the question above - you decide to declaw the kitten - what happens when he/she starts peeing all over the house, including on that couch - it happens very often to declawed cats. What happens when this declawed kitty starts bitting?
3. What happens if "your" kitten is not a healthy one, has an accident, a disease, or something and all of the sudden his vet bills are more expensive than these $7,000 furniture - believe me.... It happens! Make no mistake - a kitten is coming from a barn from free, but it is no where near free. Cats can be very very expensive.
4. What happens when you go out to college?
5. What happens if your parents are just sick and tired of the misbehaving, peeing, biting and vet bills and want the kitten GONE? What will you do?

Questions 1,2 and 3 - sorry, but it is out of your hands.... That is why we are saying these things.... It is risky, very risky... And you can be putting yourself into a situation you have no control over it.
A free cat? Believe not for a minute! I have spent thousands and thousands on my cats - it is a commitment for life, and when they are sick, the "upmost respect" is vet care. Do you, personally have the money for it? Are you, personally, independent? Because that is the only person in the world you can "put your hands on fire for" - the rest, you can only hope will do as you wish.
Declawing can go wrong - which is why so many people are telling you to get an already declawed cat. At least you will know the cat's personality already, and save a life on the top of it.
Nobody here is against you, but wanting because you want, will just potentially put you and the kitten in bad, hurtful situation....

buffalo-mitch, I hope that you are seeing that the people here do care about you and want to give you the best advice. As a 38-year-old let me share my own experience from when I was your age.

My family never had cats when I was a kid, but we did have dogs. Due to my dad's allergies, we had poodles. When I was 7, we had elderly neighbors who had to move to a retirement home and were unable to take their poodle Gidget with them, so we agreed to adopt her. She quickly became MY dog, she loved me above all other humans (with the exception of my grandpa... ). She was the first pet that was truly mine, the first animal that I ever formed a strong, lasting bond with. When I was in high school, she started showing signs of old age. She became diabetic, blind, and had to be fed a special diet because of bad teeth. Gidget and I were both 16 years old when my parents finally made the decision to end her life which had become more about suffering than about living.

Alone and away from what I perceived to be judgmental eyes, I said my goodbye to Gidget before I went to school on the day she was due to be put to sleep. Being the stubborn 16-year-old that I was, I stupidly chose to grieve by myself. I gave my little dog a teary goodbye and went off to my normal everyday life. I declined my parents' offer to go to the vet with them that day and I will never in my entire life forgive myself for that decision. It still hurts me that I wasn't there when she left, to give her comfort and love.

Fast forward a few months and I was begging my parents to get me another dog. Against their better judgment, they got me a toy poodle, Kaiser . I was home for a year and a half before I went off to college, and Kaiser basically became my little sister's dog. Eventually she went to college too, and although Kaiser had a good, long life with my parents (he had to be PTS at 16 years old), looking back it was only because I wanted a dog so much that we brought him into our home. He was barely out of puppyhood when I stopped being his primary caretaker.

Bottom line is, I understand the longing for an animal companion. And I am by NO means telling you not to get this kitten. I think cats are the most awesome animals in the world, and it sounds like you know it too. But as others have said, you are not financially independent at this point in your life. Do you have a plan for what happens when your cat gets sick? Will your parents pay the vet bills? Will you have to rehome this cat if your parents insist that you get her de-clawed?

I don't mean to beat a dead horse, but I thought my own personal experience might help you. As much as I loved my dog Kaiser , knowing everything that I know now, I would never have asked to get a dog at that time in my life. And 16 wasn't so long ago, I know when I was that age I was pretty sure I knew everything...

I do hope you stick around these forums, even if you decide not to get a cat right now. If you DO decide to get this kitten, PLEASE stick around here. It's a great resource.

My 'free kittens'(they showed up on my porch at 4 weeks old with their moms and grandma, all ferals, we had 12 kittens total from them, 15 if you count the 3 from the one my neighbor took in) cost thousands of dollars in vet bills(well Attitude did, ironically enough Nuts was never sick a day in his life and he was in complete bone marrow failure when he was put down.) They all had feline leukemia, and Nuts, at 2 years and 3 weeks, was the last of the 15 kittens to die. Attitude died in Nov at 15 monhs old and her life was nothing but vet visits and money spent trying to resolve an eye infection that never went away and eventually travelled around her causing bloody noses, and a sevee URI that she couldn't beat and was eventually the cause of her having to be put to sleep. As I said above Nuts lived to 2 years 3 weeks and was the last kitten to die. The leukemia had infected his bone marrow and caused it to go into total failure. I have lost 4 cats since Nov, including 2 feral 'kittens'(they were over 1 but they were from the 15 kittens we had) in one day(from URIs) back in March.

If you can't live without a kitten get one from a rescue or a shelter, you have a better chance of getting a healthy kitten than from a random farm. If I had known then what I know now I would have got a shelter or rescue kitten over the 2 I had(Maude died of liver failure at 10 so she wasn't a kitten, nor was her death related to Attitude or Nuts, she was leukemia negative when she died.) It wasn't fun having a kitten/cat that was always sick and always seeing the vet. I still find it weird not constantly being at the vet's office because it became such a normal thing to always be there. That is what a 'free' cat/kitten can give you.

Taryn

I got my cat from a friend who couldn't be bothered to care for him anymore. I had a vet bill before he was even actually MY cat. In fact, my first 2 years owning him were constant vet trips. Thankfully my vet is very inexpensive, but I did have to make one emergency trip which cost $120 just for him to be seen.
The last two years have cost me several hundred though.
I always scraped the money up because I love this cat with all my heart but it wasn't easy by any means.

I can see your desire to have a pet. They are amazing and it is a great feeling to be loved unconditionally by an animal but as others said, you have much to consider right now.

As cute as they are, kittens are A LOT of work! I'd hate to see your parents get tired of looking after him/her when you are in school or out somewhere. I, too worry about the outcome should your folks decide the kitten was a bad idea.

I haven't read ALL of your posts but is adopting an older cat completely out of the question? It doesn't even have to be OLD, old...but out of the wired, curious stage. At least one you wont have to worry about when you're not home. Either way, I wish you the best of luck. I hope everything works out well for you, the kitty and your parents. (Their furniture too!)

Hey buffalo_mitch.

Just because I am a new member does not mean I cannot help. I hope the information I give helps everyone who is faced with the difficult decision to declaw their cats because of destroying furniture and so on so forth.

I have a beautiful Seal Brown Tabby cat and she was driving us mad with her scratching the doors, the couches and the rubber inserts on our aluminium doors.

Then I did some research and found out there is a way to curb the scratching and destroying of furniture.

It is called Soft Claws for Cats and more information can be found on their site: https://www.softpaws.com/
There are 40 caps that are applied to the front claws with adhesive that lasts between 4-6 months. My cat doesn't even seem to notice them at all. The only thing will need to do is to clip the nails(without getting the quick cut) so that it fits. It comes in nearly all colours.

Note that above I am not advertising. I am merely helping people and letting them know that they do not have to declaw their beloved cats.

So there is a solution for you buffalo_mitch.

Thanks you for reading and I hope this helps,
AfricanWildCat

Original poster, are you still around? You could try volunteering at an animal shelter or rescue for a little bit, to get to know a bit more about cat care, normal cat behavior, and how to solve common problems before you bring a cat into your own home. You'll be helping some kitties in the process. Your parents might also give your opinion more weight if you become something of an expert, no?

I'm surprised that some of the posters here who volunteer with shelters and rescues haven't run into issues with declawed cats. As a volunteer for a rescue, I did see cases in which cats were declawed and later had trouble using the litter box.

The issue with taking a cat at 8 weeks is that at that age, they are still learning proper behaviour from mama cat and siblings. For example, they learn through play with their siblings that claws hurt! (Although they are more or less eating on their own and should be litter trained by then.)

Don't become offended by the replies you've received... they were made with the cat's well-being in mind. Learn as much as you can, and see if you can't reason with your parents.

Originally Posted by badkelpie

People mentioned catnip, but I have never met a kitten who likes catnip. Grown up kitties like it though.

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Well I said it as a scent reminder. Even if they don't react to the catnip like adult cats do, they do remember that their scratching posts smell that way, their beds smell that way, their toys smell that way, etc.

It's worked for me for my own cats and fosters.