I Have More Trust Issues Than This Feral..

[Feral Mom]

(( hugs ))


....that's all i got.
If i lived closer, i would come over with a pot of tea or tequila, (your choice) and we could shake our heads at this poor, little mixed up little cat there and wonder.
You need that Cat Daddy over there! Who has his number!?

i am glad there are such knowledgeable ppl here for you. hang in there as best as you can, take good care of YOU, too. It has been a rough first few days. This lil rascal is quite the lil thang so far.
Hoping for better soon.

 

[Jcatbird]

Okay. First, take a deep breath. Things have been moving really fast. Maybe too fast. He is adjusting to a whole new world and a human. He just had surgery and he is sick. The medicine plays a part too. Just stop and think. What would it be like to be a small creature, feeling bad and to be in a strange big world. New noises, people poking and pinching you and the human smells like another cat! I’d be trying to make friends but also establish that I was worried too. He’s telling you a lot of things. You are his provider, his affection but also his only creature to communicate with. He has a lot to say. He needs a lot more time. When he rubs you, just try sitting there and doing nothing. Talk in a calming tone. If he nips, turn your back to him and do absolutely nothing. If he keeps bumping, try using a brush or a wand toy to give him head scratches. Back up a little in your behavior with him. Normally you would have worked up to petting this way. The two of you jumped ahead a bit but maybe backing down to a slower pace might ease things up a bit. Don’t be too worried. He really is just reacting to all that has been going on. It’s been a lot for a little kitty. Let him recover, heal and adjust. He may have a bit of pain still and we know he is going through hormonal changes. Wear long and heavy sleeves. Gloves too if needed. I did go through all of this with BJ. Things will change.

If you need a laugh, go see what BJ and Whistle did tonight! Just a tip from my night though, don’t stick your tongue out at Finn!

 

[Buffster7]

Okay. First, take a deep breath. Things have been moving really fast. Maybe too fast. He is adjusting to a whole new world and a human. He just had surgery and he is sick. The medicine plays a part too. Just stop and think. What would it be like to be a small creature, feeling bad and to be in a strange big world. New noises, people poking and pinching you and the human smells like another cat! I’d be trying to make friends but also establish that I was worried too. He’s telling you a lot of things. You are his provider, his affection but also his only creature to communicate with. He has a lot to say. He needs a lot more time. When he rubs you, just try sitting there and doing nothing. Talk in a calming tone. If he nips, turn your back to him and do absolutely nothing. If he keeps bumping, try using a brush or a wand toy to give him head scratches. Back up a little in your behavior with him. Normally you would have worked up to petting this way. The two of you jumped ahead a bit but maybe backing down to a slower pace might ease things up a bit. Don’t be too worried. He really is just reacting to all that has been going on. It’s been a lot for a little kitty. Let him recover, heal and adjust. He may have a bit of pain still and we know he is going through hormonal changes. Wear long and heavy sleeves. Gloves too if needed. I did go through all of this with BJ. Things will change.

If you need a laugh, go see what BJ and Whistle did tonight! Just a tip from my night though, don’t stick your tongue out at Finn!

Thanks so much, Jcatbird . The step-by-step helped - I followed instructions this morning. Last night when I went in to pull the blinds and feed his last meal, I sat on the bed and he was alllllllll over me. Rolling, rubbing, heat-butting, climbing, etc. I tried not to touch and kept my head tucked because he makes me really nervous when he does the lunging head-butt.

This morning I didn't sit down. I came in to feed him, cleaned the litter boxes and then played with the cat dancer. I imagine he was a skilled hunter outside - I can't even move the wand quickly enough, he catches it every time! He's lightning fast and accurate, and his claws are merciless!

I didn't touch him and left the room after giving him a post-play treat. He has been wailing mournfully since I left - he is still wailing. He doesn't normally wail this much when I leave. Did I do the right thing? Should I have spent more time with him? I'm trying to back off and give him more space, but if I sit on the bed he's all over me, and I get bitten.

Thank you all for your insight and encouragement. I was really put off yesterday. I'm feeling a little more understanding this morning. Probably because I didn't get bitten, ha! When you went through this all with BJ, did he bite you a lot, too?

 

[Jcatbird]

Yes. He bit me a lot. At first when he was outside he let me touch him okay but one day he totally lashed out. I think I did something to make him wary. Hard to know. He’s his own man, for sure. Once inside, I could sleep in the room okay, althoughje did pee and mark me the first night! Ugh! Then he got very sketchy. He wanted loving but didn’t. He would beg for pets and then swipe me good! I started using the brush, wand toy and think leather gloves. It’s all on the site. If you follow from the link that rubysmama gave you on the night BJ came in you’ll see this. He would bite my feet and grab my legs to keep me in the room. He was quite a character. I kept saying, “ he’s going to eat me!” Lol I was kidding but....
He finally got neutered and then moved into a large cage where the other cats were. He was kind of sad. Then one of the kitties started looking at him. I began slowly reaching in to feed and water/box. I would skip in a pet and if it went okay, a little more. From there I started allowing him just out the cage door. I blocked his path. He began to lay beside me and then on me. From there I worked on more petting and finally holding him. Next it was allowing him past me on the floor in a small area, meeting kitties and finally walking around. He was really happy and funny by then. It’s all a process that needs to be followed according to the ability of each individual cat. Take heart! It will improve!

 

[Buffster7]

Yes. He bit me a lot. At first when he was outside he let me touch him okay but one day he totally lashed out. I think∫ I did something to make him wary. Hard to know. He’s his own man, for sure. Once inside, I could sleep in the room okay, althoughje did pee and mark me the first night! Ugh! Then he got very sketchy. He wanted loving but didn’t. He would beg for pets and then swipe me good! I started using the brush, wand toy and think leather gloves. It’s all on the site. If you follow from the link that rubysmama gave you on the night BJ came in you’ll see this. He would bite my feet and grab my legs to keep me in the room. He was quite a character. I kept saying, “ he’s going to eat me!” Lol I was kidding but....
He finally got neutered and then moved into a large cage where the other cats were. He was kind of sad. Then one of the kitties started looking at him. I began slowly reaching in to feed and water/box. I would skip in a pet and if it went okay, a little more. From there I started allowing him just out the cage door. I blocked his path. He began to lay beside me and then on me. From there I worked on more petting and finally holding him. Next it was allowing him past me on the floor in a small area, meeting kitties and finally walking around. He was really happy and funny by then. It’s all a process that needs to be followed according to the ability of each individual cat. Take heart! It will improve!

Thanks so much again for your response, Jcatbird
Quick question while I'm in here with him. What do I do when he comes up to me and climbs in my lap, rolls around on me etc? Do I keep hands off? Look away? I don't want him to feel rejected but am unsure of how to back off and give him space when he is insistent on contact. Should I allow a little contact and then stand up so that he can't touch me?

 

[Buffster7]

I am sitting in here with him trying to back off suggested. It's hard as he is determined to touch and headbutt, but I am trying to acknowledge him and then move aside and work on my computer. He is restless and keeps getting up to look out the window. I think the outdoors is beckoning him. I've played with the wand and the dancer, and honestly there are a couple times the hair on my neck raised because he was looking at my feet/legs like he was going to pounce. Sometimes he will jump up on the bed and the way he will look at me gives me goosebumps. I hate to admit it but I'm a little afraid of him. Hopefully that will subside if we can get a few 'visits' without bites under our belt.

However, I have to say that your stories have helped me tremendously - knowing that some aggressive-acting cats that you guys have worked with have turned out okay. Thanks to shadowsrescue and Jcatbird for suggesting to back off. Do let me know if I'm doing the wrong thing by ignoring his advances. So far it has circumvented any bites this visit.

*Edited to add: I received the Composure Max. I tried it on both the boys, but only used 1/4 tsp. It knocks Charlie out cold - he sawed logs like nobody's business both times I tried it with him. It doesn't do a thing to the little guy, and he's half Charlie's size! I may increase the dose a bit for him.

 

[Talien]

I hate to admit it but I'm a little afraid of him.

You'll absolutely need to get over that if you want to make much progress with him. Animals, moreso Cats, are very in tune with what others are feeling and fear in particular can easily set them off.

 

[Buffster7]

You'll absolutely need to get over that if you want to make much progress with him. Animals, moreso Cats, are very in tune with what others are feeling and fear in particular can easily set them off.

Are you suggesting I take some of that Composure Max liquid myself? Take a couple deep whiffs of Feliway before entering?
Yes, I recognize I'll have to conquer the fear; I'm hoping a couple visits with no bites will help. I don't know how some of you are so fearless in the face of fangs! I'm a wuss.

 

[Talien]

Are you suggesting I take some of that Composure Max liquid myself? Take a couple deep whiffs of Feliway before entering?
Yes, I recognize I'll have to conquer the fear; I'm hoping a couple visits with no bites will help. I don't know how some of you are so fearless in the face of fangs! I'm a wuss.

If only it was that easy. I mean, if feline calming products worked on people just as well I think there would be a lot less nervous people around. No, your best bet is probably as you said, a few visits interacting with him without him attacking you to build up your own confidence.

I can't speak for everyone but bites and scratches simply do not bother me, I just shrug and sterilize it with alcohol or peroxide and put a bandage on it as soon as I can.

 

[Buffster7]

If only it was that easy. I mean, if feline calming products worked on people just as well I think there would be a lot less nervous people around. No, your best bet is probably as you said, a few visits interacting with him without him attacking you to build up your own confidence.

I can't speak for everyone but bites and scratches simply do not bother me, I just shrug and sterilize it with alcohol or peroxide and put a bandage on it as soon as I can.

Yeah, I've tried to figure out why I'm so disturbed. The pain doesn't bother me. I think it's the unpredictability. I don't like being attacked for no discernible reason, it unsettles me. Maybe I'll get better at it; I've never experienced this before.

 

[Talien]

Yeah, I've tried to figure out why I'm so disturbed. The pain doesn't bother me. I think it's the unpredictability. I don't like being attacked for no discernible reason, it unsettles me. Maybe I'll get better at it; I've never experienced this before.

That is understandable, but if you can learn to pick up on his cues you'll be able to predict when he's going to try to attack you and then move away. Watch him closely to see how his body language changes and you'll be able to see it coming.

 

[shadowsrescue]

One of my feral kitties that I brought inside last year was a biter and scratcher too. He lived outside on my deck and yard ( with a wonderful shelter too!) for 3 years before coming inside. When I was working with him and he was starting to enjoy time with me, he would come and try to bite me as well as chasing after me on my way inside the house and scratching the backs of my legs. It was not a fun time. Yet, I knew I could not let my fears show through. I had to be strong.
Now my little guy didn't seek out pets like Finn, but he was very curious about pets, but did not understand that I would not hurt him. It took a long while for us to come to an understanding. I just kept working with him and playing with him. I did my best to keep him from biting me. When he did, I tried not to react. I would just keep my hand there and tell him sharply "no". Then I would go inside. Repeat, repeat, repeat. Until he finally got it.

Finn so desperately wants your love. He just doesn't understand how to give love and most likely is not well versed in humans.

For the Composure, I would give him 1/2 t. at least once a day ( when he is most alert) and then another 1/4 t. at bedtime. It can take a few days to get into his system. It should be given regularly too.

You will get there and so will Finn. The best advice I can give you is to not worry about your 2 week time frame. You won't be around as much, but you will still be there. Setting lofty goals with a time frame often just leads to disappointment. Cats work on "cat time" not human time. Once you just allow him time to settle, release all hormones, adjust to inside living, adjust to you and Charlie, things will all fall into place. It might be next week, but it might be next year.

I moved almost a year and a half ago and brought with me 3 outside feral cats. I decided to have them all move inside the new house. I already had 3 other inside cats. We have had our ups and downs. We were smooth sailing and the cats were adjusting beautifully and all 6 meeting and greeting. Then our older dog passed away and it all went downhill fast. One of the cats was so distraught. He started attacking the others. He could not get a grip. It has been a long long year, but we are still making progress. I cannot push them too far or it backfires in my face. I feel as long as we continue to move forward (no matter how small the progress) we will eventually get there!

We are here for you to cheer you on and help as much as we can! You have made remarkable progress in a very short time!

 

[Jcatbird]

Chamomile tea for you! The above info is right on. I know the goosebump feeling. That’s instinctive but they do pick up on it. Just remember..... he really can’t eat you. I think we have all sensed when to back away but you are now the Alpha cat! You own the world! Let him know that but don’t be aggressive. Just firm and calm. Follow the instructions given. Backing off a bit with interaction, turn away if he offends you, speak calmly but firmly, lots of play time to wear him out and give him time. You really will get there with him. It may not feel like it right now but he’s such a great kitty! You have made amazing progress with him. Fast too! So many people struggle for many months trying to get where you are. Your talent and his personality will accomplish what you need. Continue with your life as you make your way with him. I know he draws your focus , and to some extent, should but we can get so wrapped up in them, we tend to lose some perspective. We Get a Case of NERVES! We all do it! The night BJ came in was ,” OMG! What did I just do?” Lol
Try looking back to your earliest post. Read how things have progressed. You’ve come a very long way!

 

[Jcatbird]

Just saw your question about contact. He is rubbing all over you and there fore, getting attention. You can try sneaking in a few subtle pets. Back of the head or somewhere it is hard for him to be able to nip quickly. I sometimes do it under the chin because i can see the mouth opening and I can grab behind their head before they bite. I just reach around and gently push their little head forward and down if they do that. Then I pull my hand away a say a firm,” no.” My love nipper responds to me blowing in his face. It stops him cold but wait until you know this cat well before trying that. You don’t need to be in his face yet. Lol There is no need to rush anything. He does crave attention, and he’ll get it. When you feel the time is right. Play is the best way to give him attention right now. Run him with a brush or stick and you can better decide when he’s okay to pet. Kitten steps again.

 

[Buffster7]

I have gone through and read your replies through a couple times each. Thank you again for each of your tidbits of wisdom. I'm trying to incorporate them. We've managed to make it through 1.5 days with no bites - huge relief!

We've been having playtime, and I've made a concerted effort to refrain from touching him. By last night he was acting anxious, pacing back and forth in front of me with anxious meows. So today I brought a blanket to cover my skin up with and laid down to take a nap. He lay beside me and groomed himself; at one point he looked at me and grabbed my arm with his paws and started to bite, but caught himself and stopped right as I said "Uh-uh!" That was the closest we've come since Friday, and he caught himself before he bit, which was so encouraging to me! I didn't look at him or touch him while I lay there and napped, and then left when I woke up.

I finally feel safe enough to remove the potty pads as he seems to only scratch the scratchers. I'm going to attach a video of when we were playing and I think he smelled Charlie under the door. His meow changed. Anyone familiar with this meow? I think we need a page for sound clips of cat chirps/meows and what they might mean! So please overlook the balled up potty pads on the floor that I'd just pulled up, but see what you think about his meow:
Amazon Photos

He has to be getting bored being cooped up in that room, even with me visiting and playing with him. How long can a cat tolerate being cloistered in one small bedroom?

 

[Buffster7]

I know the goosebump feeling. That’s instinctive but they do pick up on it.

Yes! My instincts are normally quite keen, and I just sensed a 'threat' a couple times and broke out in goosebumps. When I looked at him he had this look on his face - cats can be so creepy when they're sizing you up!

It has been a long long year, but we are still making progress. I cannot push them too far or it backfires in my face. I feel as long as we continue to move forward (no matter how small the progress) we will eventually get there!

The perseverance and patience is admirable. It takes a special kind of person to rescue the wild ones! You ladies are pretty amazing.

 

[Talien]

So today I brought a blanket to cover my skin up with and laid down to take a nap.

That has been one thing I've had good results with, I lay on my back for a nap in the room with a Cat that I'm trying to socialize. Laying on your back can help with building trust because for a Cat, their belly is the most vulnerable part. By showing a Cat your belly like that, especially when you fall asleep as that is the time that a Cat is most vulnerable, you're telling them that you are not a threat and that you trust them.

 

[shadowsrescue]

I loved the video clip! I think Finn is just curious. He knows Charlie is there and he wants to see. Have you started doing any scent swapping yet? That should be your next step.

The first feral I brought inside was in his safe room for months. Once I was comfortable handling him, I would put my other cat away and allow him time outside of his room.

I would concentrate on scent swapping first!

 

[Jcatbird]

The meow sounds like who’s out there. Is it that cat I saw before? Curious. I wonder if it’s a friend? He probably is bored and interested in Charlie. Slow and steady though. Get him behaving well and healthy first. The fact that he listened to you tell him not to bite means progress. Just hang in there a bit longer. Sleeping with him is something I suggested early on but you had a ton of input. I totally think that was a great idea on your part. I’d keep doing that! It bonds very well! When the bond feels secure and he is totally recovered, time to start introductions. Sniffing under the door is good. His reaction was calm. Just seemed interested. Scent swapping with blankets if he is clear of the URI would be the first step. He looks great!

 

[Buffster7]

The meow sounds like who’s out there. Is it that cat I saw before? Curious. I wonder if it’s a friend? He probably is bored and interested in Charlie. Slow and steady though. Get him behaving well and healthy first. The fact that he listened to you tell him not to bite means progress. Just hang in there a bit longer. Sleeping with him is something I suggested early on but you had a ton of input. I totally think that was a great idea on your part. I’d keep doing that! It bonds very well! When the bond feels secure and he is totally recovered, time to start introductions. Sniffing under the door is good. His reaction was calm. Just seemed interested. Scent swapping with blankets if he is clear of the URI would be the first step. He looks great!

That's what I thought the meow sounded like, too, but I wanted to check with the experts! I heard 'curious' and 'hopeful' in that meow. It sounded friendly to me.

I can't recall if I told you guys that I texted a neighbor who lets his cats roam free to see if he had ever seen interactions with Finn. He said that none of the cats got along with Finn, but that Finn was not the aggressor. I wonder if, since I gave Finn Charlie's toys when he was still outside, if he smelled Charlie on those toys and associates him with kindness?

Yes, I remembered that you had suggested sleeping with him, so I felt it might be okay to take a nap in there as long as I tried not to touch him, so thank you for that earlier tidbit.

URI...how will I know when it's gone? If I URI is a virus and antibiotics don't treat viruses, this means the virus simply needs to run its course, right? If Finn had the virus prior to trapping him (he had green gunk by his eyes), then how will I know when the virus has run its course? I'm not interested in rushing anything, we have a way to go before introductions, but the scent swapping thing...I'm feverishly washing Finn's blankets and using bleach because I read that the coronavirus can only be killed with bleach, and I don't know what kind of virus caused this URI. ?