Protein "sensitivity/allergy" If Fed One Type Exclusively?

[lakotawolf]

Hi guys,


tl;dr I used to have a kitty, Wintressia, who was diagnosed with Stage 3 kidney failure when she was 14 and given 3 months to live. I switched her to a fully raw diet (ground meat/bone/organ from Hare Today, supplemented with Alnutrin) and she lived another 6 wonderful, healthy, happy years. She just passed away in February at the age of 19 (in May she would have turned 20). She had a stroke, which is what led to her death - I believe that not only did the raw diet give her those 6 more years of life, she would have lived another 5+ years at least if she hadn't had the stroke :{ Sorry for the off-topic background story, but just wanted to show why I would scream the benefits of a raw diet from the rooftops XD


I adopted a stray, Kohl, in December of 2016, and there was no question that she would be on a raw diet from the second I took her in. The vet guessed she was ~7 months old when I found her, so she's around 2 years old now (by best guess). She's very healthy, incredibly glossy and soft, and loves her raw diet. Basically the best stray-kitty outcome I could ask for! (Except for a crazy adventure regarding being spayed/having remnant ovary syndrome/the vet opened her up THREE times for "spaying", but that's a tale for another day.)


The only problem is (and my main concern) is she is a LOT pickier re: protein types than my old lady Wintressia was. I used to get a wide variety of proteins for Win, and she would happily eat anything from chicken to rabbit to goat to pork to llama. There wasn't a meat that Win wouldn't eat. I think I even got emu and kangaroo for her once. I would rotate protein types weekly, and never had an issue with vomiting or regurgitation.


Kohl, unfortunately, is picky. I feed her Darwin's right now (for ease of prep; it's already fully supplemented) and all she'll eat is their chicken and turkey. (They offered duck for a while and she ate that, but they've discontinued their duck and replaced it with lamb.) She absolutely will not touch the lamb, even if I mix it in with the chicken or turkey in an effort to introduce it slowly. If there's a single molecule of lamb mixed in, she just won't eat, period.


I've bought some other proteins from My Pet Carnivore in pure desperation, and I can't get her to eat them either - EXCEPT beef. She'll eat beef. Unfortunately, she seems to have a sensitivity/allergy(?) to beef, and will promptly projectile regurgitate it explosively within a few minutes of eating it (NOT vomiting which takes place after some digestion - this is immediate regurgitation). I give her the beef, prepped exactly the same as I prep her poultry proteins, and within minutes it's all over the walls and carpet, in fully undigested form. I learned my lesson after a couple of attempts >_<


My worry is that she's going to develop some kind of sensitivity/overload to chicken/turkey if that's all I feed her for the rest of her life, and then not be able to eat it (or develop other problems.) I've heard stories that animals "develop" problems with a single protein if they are fed it exclusively (not sure whether to call it an allergy, sensitivity, or neither.)


Is this something I should really worry about? Can I head this off with a wider variety of fowl types (for example, if I buy duck/goose/pheasant from Hare Today and cycle that in)? Should I try to "force" her to consume other, more novel/exotic protein types by mixing it in with the chicken/turkey?


Thank you guys for any insight/opinions/thoughts. My vet is a good guy, but he thinks I am a demon for feeding my cats raw, so I can't well ask him :{

 

[1 bruce 1]

Hi guys,


tl;dr I used to have a kitty, Wintressia, who was diagnosed with Stage 3 kidney failure when she was 14 and given 3 months to live. I switched her to a fully raw diet (ground meat/bone/organ from Hare Today, supplemented with Alnutrin) and she lived another 6 wonderful, healthy, happy years. She just passed away in February at the age of 19 (in May she would have turned 20). She had a stroke, which is what led to her death - I believe that not only did the raw diet give her those 6 more years of life, she would have lived another 5+ years at least if she hadn't had the stroke :{ Sorry for the off-topic background story, but just wanted to show why I would scream the benefits of a raw diet from the rooftops XD


I adopted a stray, Kohl, in December of 2016, and there was no question that she would be on a raw diet from the second I took her in. The vet guessed she was ~7 months old when I found her, so she's around 2 years old now (by best guess). She's very healthy, incredibly glossy and soft, and loves her raw diet. Basically the best stray-kitty outcome I could ask for! (Except for a crazy adventure regarding being spayed/having remnant ovary syndrome/the vet opened her up THREE times for "spaying", but that's a tale for another day.)


The only problem is (and my main concern) is she is a LOT pickier re: protein types than my old lady Wintressia was. I used to get a wide variety of proteins for Win, and she would happily eat anything from chicken to rabbit to goat to pork to llama. There wasn't a meat that Win wouldn't eat. I think I even got emu and kangaroo for her once. I would rotate protein types weekly, and never had an issue with vomiting or regurgitation.


Kohl, unfortunately, is picky. I feed her Darwin's right now (for ease of prep; it's already fully supplemented) and all she'll eat is their chicken and turkey. (They offered duck for a while and she ate that, but they've discontinued their duck and replaced it with lamb.) She absolutely will not touch the lamb, even if I mix it in with the chicken or turkey in an effort to introduce it slowly. If there's a single molecule of lamb mixed in, she just won't eat, period.


I've bought some other proteins from My Pet Carnivore in pure desperation, and I can't get her to eat them either - EXCEPT beef. She'll eat beef. Unfortunately, she seems to have a sensitivity/allergy(?) to beef, and will promptly projectile regurgitate it explosively within a few minutes of eating it (NOT vomiting which takes place after some digestion - this is immediate regurgitation). I give her the beef, prepped exactly the same as I prep her poultry proteins, and within minutes it's all over the walls and carpet, in fully undigested form. I learned my lesson after a couple of attempts >_<


My worry is that she's going to develop some kind of sensitivity/overload to chicken/turkey if that's all I feed her for the rest of her life, and then not be able to eat it (or develop other problems.) I've heard stories that animals "develop" problems with a single protein if they are fed it exclusively (not sure whether to call it an allergy, sensitivity, or neither.)


Is this something I should really worry about? Can I head this off with a wider variety of fowl types (for example, if I buy duck/goose/pheasant from Hare Today and cycle that in)? Should I try to "force" her to consume other, more novel/exotic protein types by mixing it in with the chicken/turkey?


Thank you guys for any insight/opinions/thoughts. My vet is a good guy, but he thinks I am a demon for feeding my cats raw, so I can't well ask him :{

Raw feeder here too!
We don't force the issue. She eats some foods that cause projectile vomiting and others she ignores completely, I'd listen so long as she's happy with chicken and turkey!
I'd look into Hare Today. I wouldn't freak out totally and buy every single protein source you think she can handle, but a bit of rotation will be good. Maybe even some goose or pheasant organs to amp things up a bit!
Can she eat eggs? Fish?

 

[lakotawolf]

She does eggs beautifully; I often give her a raw egg yolk with her normal meat blend - there was a while when all Wintressia would eat were egg yolks, so I developed quite the technique for separating them from their whites! Kolh does seems less enamored of cooked egg whites, however, so she doesn't get whites/cooked eggs as often.


I haven't tried fish (other than the occasional tidbit of raw salmon/tuna/etc cut from our dinner fillet!) as I remember reading on Little Big Cat that fish is really, really bad for cats for several reasons :{ (e.g. potential mercury overload in tuna, the fact that many fish contain a lot of histamines, and the vitamin K issue)

 

[1 bruce 1]

I don't feed a lot of fish, but my cats do like sardines on occasion and we do use fish oil, as not all of the meat has a great omega 3/6 ratio due to the habits of CAFO organizations =/ Also, ours love eggs too! I rarely feed the whites, they pick them out (cooked)!
I've been on Hare Today's website, they have some really cool stuff. I'd give it a shot and if nothing else email the owner of the company with your questions!

 

[sophie1]

My Pet Carnivore proteins tend to smell gamey, so you might have more luck ordering from Hare Today. Rabbit is the obvious protein to try - very few cats will turn that down. Venison is pretty well accepted usually, and you said your kitty liked duck. Also try the goat, pheasant, and cavies. The quail and ground mouse are gamey though...my cats wouldn't touch those.

 

[Furballsmom]

Hi! I dont know if this is beneficial to you but you could consider a brand of tuna called Safecatch, it is low Merc and they have a low/no sodium variety.
Also, so that you know, the vitamin K issue is no longer limited to commercial cat food with fish.

 

[1 bruce 1]

My Pet Carnivore proteins tend to smell gamey, so you might have more luck ordering from Hare Today. Rabbit is the obvious protein to try - very few cats will turn that down. Venison is pretty well accepted usually, and you said your kitty liked duck. Also try the goat, pheasant, and cavies. The quail and ground mouse are gamey though...my cats wouldn't touch those.

Their website says a lot of their foods are really good quality and grass fed, free ranged, etc. I wonder if that has something to do with it?

 

[1 bruce 1]

Also as a side note, it's good to reserve a single protein source *on the slim chance* (very slim) that they DO develop a full blown weird food intolerance so you have something to fall back on! IDT that "poultry"...chicken, turkey, duck, (duck) goose (runs) is a single source, and sometimes cats or dogs that do poorly on chicken can handle turkey etc.
One of our girlies is going in for some allergy testing later this week. We suspect environmental allergies but haven't ruled out food problems either, so it will be interesting to see what happens!

 

[1 bruce 1]

Hi! I dont know if this is beneficial to you but you could consider a brand of tuna called Safecatch, it is low Merc and they have a low/no sodium variety.
Also, so that you know, the vitamin K issue is no longer limited to commercial cat food with fish.

I have never heard of safe catch. Very cool!
Is this for cats and dogs only, or is it a human food too?
edit..
hopefully I don't get banned, but here's another thought for the original poster as well as myself, lol.....
our world is polluted. No matter what we eat ourselves, or feed or cats, dogs, chickens, horses or children, there's pollution involved. Even grass fed food animals have been known to store toxins in tissues and lead in their bone and we feed the best quality raw foods available....even organically raised, grass fed or pastured or grass finished or whatever, toxins still are there and can't be avoided in today's world.
I think just kind of adopting this "I'm doing the best I can and I rotate the crap out of foods provided my cat is OK with this" is a good approach. If they don't like the rotation, find foods they like, cross your fingers and enjoy them. Be smart, educate yourself, but don't stress over all the tiny little things if you can!

 

[Furballsmom]

Safecatch is human food I found it at whole foods

 

[1 bruce 1]

Safecatch is human food I found it at whole foods

I'll be, there's a WFM not too far from us that I have never visited. Thanks for the recommendation!!!

 

[Furballsmom]

You're very welcome!

 

[dhammagirl]

If you try rabbit from Hare Today, try both the boneless ground and the ground whole carcass. I found that my more "picky" kitties were just ok with the boneless ground rabbit, but really really liked the ground whole carcass rabbit.

 

[mschauer]

My worry is that she's going to develop some kind of sensitivity/overload to chicken/turkey if that's all I feed her for the rest of her life, and then not be able to eat it (or develop other problems.) I've heard stories that animals "develop" problems with a single protein if they are fed it exclusively (not sure whether to call it an allergy, sensitivity, or neither.)

I've also heard that frequent feeding of a particular protein can lead to allergy or sensitivity to that protein but I've never seen or heard of any real proof of it. It may just be a theory. I know cats have developed sensitivities to a protein that hasn't been fed any more frequently than any other protein.

Personally I wouldn't worry about feeding only 2 proteins. Especially not in the short term. Feed her that and keep looking for other proteins she might like. But I wouldn't worry if you can't get her to eat anything other than chicken and turkey even long term.

 

[Tobermory]

I’m glad you started this thread! It’s been worrying me, too, with one of my three. Iris will eat only chicken made from thighs that I buy at the store and grind myself. No other proteins, even ones I get at the store (pork=projectile vomiting), no commercial raw like Primal or NW Naturals, not even the beautiful fresh grinds from Hare Today. The other two hoover down anything. So I’ll just continue to give her chicken. If it seems like she’s starting to reject it, I’ll go back to experimentation.

Edit: I was going to add...Have you tried toppers? They don’t work with Iris, but sometimes Mocha doesn’t want to start in on her food, like this morning when she just sat and looked at her turkey. I put some NW Naturals liver treat crumbs on the top and she immediately ate it.

 

[lisahe]

This is something I always have in the back of my mind, too, largely because our cats also love chicken so much, though eat a lot of turkey and pork, too. I keep rabbit "in reserve" (like 1 bruce 1 was mentioning!) for just in case but tend to look at things a lot like mschauer and Tobermory do: I just keep feeding what the cats will eat but also keep trying new things out on them. Part of the difficult of feeding them right now is that they really like variety but it can be difficult to give them variety if they're picky about their proteins!

 

[Azazel]

I’ve often wondered if this is just another one of those myths that circulates the internet, like the one that says you can’t feed both dry and raw food in the same diet.

I think it’s probably true that cats benefit from eating different proteins because they will get a greater variety of nutrient sources, but I don’t think there’s any real evidence that it will lead to intolerances or allergies. I suspect that what’s more harmful is eating foods containing ingredients such as gums, grains, and carrageenan over long periods of time. Perhaps cats end up building intolerances to these ingredients and vets end up mistakenly blaming the protein source.

 

[mschauer]

I’ve often wondered if this is just another one of those myths that circulates the internet, like the one that says you can’t feed both dry and raw food in the same diet.

Yup. It's a huge problem with getting information from on-line sources. I can't tell you how many times I've researched the origin of some supposed well known fact just to learn that it actually has no basis in fact at all. What happens most often is that some persons speculation gets repeated as fact and that it actually was only speculation gets quickly dropped. Sometimes the original statement comes from a credible source and is repeated as such but still the part about it being speculation is lost.

Sometimes it's just a matter of one person saying something as fact followed by a billion people repeating it as fact with none of them ever considering whether there is reason to believe it.

Makes me nuts.

 

[lalagimp]

My girls have eaten chicken based kibble their entire lives in my house, which is 9 years on Princess Yue Pants and about 6 years on Amalie. We keep different kinds of cans on rotation, but everything is primarily chicken and I haven't been afraid of that.

The boys eat raw. They were brought up on chicken kibble since they were little, until we moved them to canned duck, and then eventually settled on rabbit and turkey raw that we make. If I can't source my turkey in time, I have done rabbit and chicken, but I'm not afraid of my boys suddenly one day having an off switch on a certain protein.
Tommy also need extra food, because he's so very Extra, and is burning through his metabolism. He's had Stella and Chewy freeze dried raw in Duck Duck Goose, Chik Chik Chicken, and I just ordered him Tummy Ticklin' Turkey that we're starting tomorrow.
The boys' snacks are freeze dried raw chicken hearts, freeze dried raw minnows, freeze dried raw blue and green mussels, freeze dried salmon treats, freeze dried chicken and duck bites.

 

[1 bruce 1]

I've also heard that frequent feeding of a particular protein can lead to allergy or sensitivity to that protein but I've never seen or heard of any real proof of it. It may just be a theory. I know cats have developed sensitivities to a protein that hasn't been fed any more frequently than any other protein.

Personally I wouldn't worry about feeding only 2 proteins. Especially not in the short term. Feed her that and keep looking for other proteins she might like. But I wouldn't worry if you can't get her to eat anything other than chicken and turkey even long term.

Very good points!!!
I have no idea of the allergy/intolerance thing is true (I've mentioned we have a recent skin-allergy case with a cat and food is suspected, but her diet is so varied I wonder how that even happened?)
Even if it's not proof-able, it's not a bad thought to keep a food source available if it becomes some weird, last ditch effort to rule out a food allergy, probably why a lot of vets have those HA diets with "weird" protein sources like rabbit, duck, venison, etc. that most people don't feed a lot.
(I don't know squat about the vet world or the food world other than what we do so keep in mind my opinion means little!)