Yep, Another "not Getting Along" Thread, Sort Of...

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Long - apologies in advance.

Suki - Female - 4ish - fixed
Chester - Male - 1yr old - fixed

Suki is a blue, very chillled independent kitty, but likes attention sometimes and will come to you.
We got chester, a tiny energetic tabby when he was a couple of months old, and they've been together almost a year now but things still aren't fantastic.

Went through the "meeting" process, seperated for a week, fed separately and slowly introduced them, it went okay, but as said, Suki is an independent cat and you only see her ocassionally.

I think the problem is Chester is too energetic, but the gf is at her wit's end now, and things appear to be getting worse.

Basically, he attacks her, not everytime the're together, but most of the time. It doesn't appear malicious, but we're not sure. He has bundles of energy and it just looks like he wants to play whenever he sees her, he follows us around, comes on command, plays fetch etc. We play with him as much as we can.

He had 6 other litter mates, and when he was smaller he obviously didn't cause any damage to Suki so we figured he'd have learnt how to play, but we're not sure now, this is why the problem appears to have got worse, because he's bigger now, and possibly hurting her, it's distressing Suki much more.

He'll jump on her, paws around neck, I'm sure he wants to play, but she does not, ever. Suki doesn't play with us either, hasn't since she was a kitten, but Chester still hasn't grasped that and will go after her till she's growling, hissing and shrieking the place down and runs off to hide!
Will he learn she's not interested in playing? Will he ever settle?

He's got 3 scratching posts, countless other toys, 2 cat towers, cat tent, play tubes, and we use a laser pen - that's the only thing that ever tires him, but even then after 15 minutes he's ready to go again.

This past couple of weeks seems to be worse, more fights than usual, and now Suki hides from us and growls if we try and get her, there's been no changes in environment we can think of.

He's also quite vocal, he now sleeps separate and locked away as we weren't sleeping from either the fights at 4am, or him scratching at the door, he's got better with separation though, but he could still be less clingy! haha.

They have reign of house and are together for 9hrs a day while we're at work, and we've not come back to Suki injured yet, maybe some missing fur, so we don't think its an Alpha male thing, or malicous, she is sometimes in hiding spots when we come home though, which is a concern.

On the flipside, you'll find them sometimes grooming each other, curled up together, sleeping together, although this is maybe once a week, and usually when he's sleepy so she's definitely taken to him, and they do get along, but these fights aren't playing, because Suki doesn't do that.

Suki will also hiss and paw at him when he gets close, even when he hasn't done anything yet now, but not everytime, her tail isn't up, but it isn't down either.

Helps us? it's really distressing my gf now, she's in tears some nights.
 

ahunter

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Wow! It sounds as if you've been quite proactive. You took the time of keeping them separated and provided them with lots of playtime and toys and even bought cat towers. For many cats, this would have been enough.

As you can see from my photo, I have three cats. Suki sounds a little like my oldest and Chester a little like my youngest. At times my two will squabble, although mostly they leave each other alone or they snuggle together. Sadly, I know that this doesn't always happen.

The very first thing I'd recommend is to repeat the whole separation process. It sounds as if the two need sustained time apart again before they can be friends. Can you keep them separated during the day too? Should they began to tolerate one another again, you might even consider having them permanently apart when you're not home. All those hours together just might be too much for Suki.

The next thing I'd recommend is spending individual time with them. It sounds as if Suki needs to know she is important in your life. What's her favorite thing to do? Maybe just sitting with her, playing videos for her, brushing her.... you know what she'll enjoy.

The third thing I'd recommend is finding a playmate for Chester. Do you have friends with cats with whom Chester might get along? Alternatively, could you take him for stroller rides or leash train him and take him for walks? It sounds as if he needs activities that will wear him out. Have you heard of Adventure Cats? Check out the website and see if maybe Chester might like that lifestyle.

Last, I want to encourage you to hang in there! While I know of some situations that simply don't work out, there are also plenty that do. Our three cats weren't friends for about a year and now they're like siblings. It can happen. If you want more ideas, check out Pam Johnson Bennet's book: Cat vs. Cat.
 

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I'm so sorry you're having these problems. I know how stressful it is when our beloveds don't get along. I don't have advice as I'm going through it myself right now and it sounds like you've done everything possible, except a 3rd cat. Which actually we did. But it was to break up a dynamic that was too tight. My cat Jack doesn't like bf and when Rose came along as a kitten, she imprinted on Jack and started running away and hiding from bf too. Was so painful! My suggestion was a 3rd cat. A young female like Rose, who Rose could be a kitten with. I also stayed the heck away during the early bonding weeks... so Jaz is truly bf's cat. It was a risk but it worked like a charm.
Problem now is Bunny. *sigh*
 

ahunter

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Ha! Yes, a third cat is definitely another option! When we just had two cats, the one became a real bully. The only reason there was peace is that the other cat allowed herself to be very submissive. Add a kitten into the mix and.... Wow! The difference was like night and day. But, it is a risk, and I wasn't brave enough to suggest it. ;-)
 

kissthisangel

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Welcome to TCS


If Suki doesn't enjoy the play, is there something else that really motivates her like food or contact with you? It sounds like she may be losing a little confidence from your description, her hiding etc. We need to work out a plan to bring her back out and confident in her areas.

Meanwhile, you're going all out to tire Chester and not getting any rest. Do you have a safe area, away from your main living area that you can put together some cat tunnels, maybe a cardboard maze and hide some treats and toys in there. Just so you can give yourselves and Suki a rest for a little while? I'm not suggesting you just shut him away, but having some time to run riot and expell some energy where you can know he's safe and you and Suki can re-charge your batteries for a little bit each day might make things feel better.

I have to commend your commitment to the cats and the play routines though! Your cats are lucky to have such committed owners.

A couple of further questions, has Suki ever shown any interest in any play? ground play or wands? birds? Play is one of the biggest boosts to confidence we can employ so if we can work out something that gets her going, she might come out of her shell.

Do you have some high up places that Suki can claim as her own territory? some cats prefer high places, some prefer to be close to the ground. Having options like cat trees (I see you have some already) shelves, perches etc can help. This expands the vertical territory and will allow Suki to feel safe away from Chester's Antics. If she doesn't like being up high, some 3 sided boxes where she can curl up, might make her feel more secure. You can place them in areas near to you or, in corners where Chester doesn't go as often.

Keep us updated.

~Kiss
 
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Thanks for the suggestions guys.

Third cat isn't really an option, the house isn't big enough, I dod think it'd work if the new cat bonded with Chester, but it is a risk!

Suki I've not known as long, the gf tells me when she was a kitten she would play, but since turning into adulthood not so much. She has her own "closet" where she likes to chill out in the daytime, Chester can get in there but 90% of the time does not, as far as we know, and we're guessing Chester sleeps most of the day when we're not in. Suki has never played with any of the toys since I've been around (just over a year) although this week I was swinging a cat toy for Chester and she looked intrigued, apparently sometimes she looks interested but is a rarity and for the past couple of years the gf hasn't really played with her as Suki hasn't seemed interested, as said, she's independent and when wants attention she'll find you for scratchies and strokes, or maybe a cat nap.

Suki is also quite timid around new people, and that includes me even after a year, she's fine with me when the gf is with me, or it's morning and she wants attention haha, but other than that she kinda runs away from me, so she was like this before Chester came along, Chester in hindsight probably wasn't a good idea.

The last couple of weeks Suki has been kinda hyper sometimes, which has surprised both of us, running aorund, scratching and being playful a few mornings!

Oh, Chester also scratches still, a few months back we left 2 doors shut so we could get outside, he had access to the hall and all upstairs but he obviously could hear us in the shut rooms, we came back out a few minutes later and he'd scratched the wall between the 2 doors, must have put 1000 marks into it in that time, and he's scratched it a couple of times since. I only mention this as we went out yesterday for a few hours (which is quite normal) came back and he'd scratched a wall in the kitchen, then did it again right in front of my gf, we have no idea what's going on there.

Anyway, we'll try the separation thing again.

Suki time? as said, is quite difficult, she finds us when she wants us, and her favourite thing is to just chill/sleep in her closet hehe.
Suki never seems to seek the high ground, she's never gone near the cat towers, or up high on shelves, she's a strange cat :D

We don't mind playing with him, we get our own time too, during the night he'll play with his arsenal of toys in the kitchen, then in the evening he plays with us in the other rooms. If we tried "locking" him in the kitchen when we were home and it isn't bed time he'll scratch and yowl the place down.
Chester is a bit needy! if we're in he wants to be with us or Suki, like a dog! hahaha

We're hoping it's just that he has so much energy, it's like when he's awake, he's "on", constantly, always looking for the next stimulant.

We've just bought Feliway Friends, and hoping that that'll make both of them more relaxed, obviously it won't stop him being an energetic nutcase, but it might help make Suki more tolerant.
 

kissthisangel

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I know what you mean about the older cat not being keen on play, I've recently bought a few new toys to try and get mine interested, she's intrigued, but my younger one is far more enthusiastic. It's a bit of a shame really as I bought a variety of attachments for the wand. Sometimes I shut Charlie (1YO) away to let Mojo (2YO ) have some time on her own with me trailing the toy around I think she's put off by his antics, she will follow it but she's not pouncing and playing like she used to. The only thing that gets her going is live bait like the unfortunate moths that fly in the window.

Normally I would say you need to get the cat out of hiding. But it sounds like it's just her personality to chill on her own, and she's still seeking you out for attention, even if she only wants a snuggle in the mornings and then just when she wants. So long as she's not hiding out of fear and she's still eating and seeking you out when she wants then I don't see anything wrong with letting her be, especially during the adjustment period.

Your Chester and My Charlie sound like they'd get on great :lol: .

Sorry about the scratching that sounds pretty bad for your decor I hope you don't live anywhere rented! People tend to think of dogs being the masters of destruction but cats are definately just as bad. I spent alot of money on blinds I cannot use because the cats climb them. You can try and get some sisal wall scratchers, but to be honest I'm not sure if these just give the cat the green light. Our leather sofa has taken a beating down the back and side by both cats and we have four scratch posts all within a few metres of it. Sometimes they just want to destroy.

hopefully your feliway will help. Our vet reccommended that when we introduced ours. I've just asked my BF and he said it definately made a difference to our introductions, I wasn't at home as much as the time.
 
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Is Charlie as crazy looking, and as adorable as this crazy floof?

ches.jpg
 

kissthisangel

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DSC_1067.JPG 18699725_10154365923426876_7327678857192459470_o.jpg


Charlie as a kitten, and the two of them together caught having a bit of rough and tumble on the landing. Similar! I think Chester's Markings are more pronounced.
 
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I can see the similarities, adorable.

Am gutted, was looking through for some baby pics I knew I had of Chester and turns out I deleted them, they're the only high quality ones of him as a kitten, only have rubbish quality from facebook now!
 

kissthisangel

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oh no that's a shame :( at least there are still some on Facebook though. I know it's horrible quality, that's where those two pics came from!
 

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My hyper punk Dante was a lot like your Chester. What worked for me was letting him outside with supervision in my yard for an hour or two a day. Now he has free access to the backyard and lounges under a tree "hunting" birds every afternoon. My advise would be to harness train him and take him on daily walks....... long daily walks; instead of trying to tire him out with just toys (or if he finds a favorite place to hunt, long periods of you sitting nearby.) I would also separate them when you are not around. Lastly Suki needs lots of love. Puzzle toys might be a good way to build up her confidence and get her to play (when she is alone.) Puzzle toys might also work for Chester. He needs to hunt. He has a higher hunt drive. He needs the mental stimulation. Can you get him a beta fish? A bird watching window? Bird feeders right by a window? My Punk hunting ---> IMG_5285.JPG
 
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A Betta fish? Like a real one? He'd have the bowl/tank over within minutes

We've had to replace the toys in the cat towers a few times, within the first hour he'd killed one mouse and took out the other two over the next week

Outside playtime is something I've mentioned for a while, my gf thinks she's look like a crazy cat lady taking him on a leash, we looked into letting him Into the garden just before I started this thread, that's what prompted it. The gardens only 20' X 10' ish, maybe a little bigger and mostly decking with a small patch of artificial grass so we decided it probably wouldn't be worth it, and it'd have to be surpervised and for such a short amount of time in comparison we couldn't figure out if it'd be worth it for him. Same conclusion with the leash option.

Bird window they have, but I don't think they are any birds, house is a terrace with no front garden, and as above, back gardens are tiny and face other houses. They both like to sit in the window though and watch cars/people.
 

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Betta fish or crickets in one of those small plastic cages with a lid :) And even a short time outside is worth it. You can grow some real grass for your kitties. You can also put bird feeders and baths out on your terrace for them (just be sure to hang them high.) If your garden doesn't do it you can do what I originally was talking about. Take him for a walk around the block. Yes it does look little weird but more and more cat owners are doing it. My first garden my hyper punk got access to was a glorified alley they called a 'yard' (they are called patio homes but really it is just an alley decorated to look like a yard.) Most of it was concrete with some planter beds. I hung a hummingbird feeder and my cat LOVED it!
 

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Our oldest cat is reserved and struggled the most with the additions to the family. It took months and she still has her moments. One thing that helped her was being able to go down in the basement by herself. She'd always return in a happier mood.

Like Suki our oldest has also never cared much for toys. Yet she does have ways she likes to play. Plush mice are one of her fancies. She also enjoys wrestling with our hands. Maybe Suki just hasn't shown you yet what she prefers? Oh, do you have puzzle feeders? Our oldest will spend hours doing them. The nice thing about puzzle feeders is they can be a solitary activity, perfect for that independent cat.

Our youngest cat is a feline Dennis the Menace. If we don't give her enough attention, she'll knock over books and get into other mischief. I take her for walks in the yard, train her on some agility equipment, and bring her to stores to meet her stimulation needs. If those don't work, and you have room, what about a catio?
 
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No real update.

Feliway friends we bought still hasn't arrived.
They had a few good days, then Thursday night they had a big carfuffle when Chester jumped on her and the screams seemed to last forever, he chased her over the entire house!

I am liking the leash idea, it's something I've joked about for months tbh. But would half an hour every couple of days be enough?

Will that not just stimulate him at the time? or you guys that do leash walks, and let your cats in the garden, do you see long term effects from this?
 

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On the days when I take her on outings and the days I don't, I personally see a difference in the amount of mischief that our Rainy gets into. When I don't take Rainy anywhere for a few days, she is much more likely to squabble with her sisters. On the days when we walk or visit people, she tend to take more naps at home. An alternative for taking Chester on supervised outdoor excursions is to set up a play area indoors. My husband and I have occasionally rearranged our living room furniture and intersected it with tunnels and other agility equipment. It takes time to create, but all of our pets--and especially Rainy--get a kick out of exploring a new environment. Rainy is akin to a high-energy and gifted child; she needs lots of stimulation. Chester and her sound alike!
 
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The feliwat has arrivec, i'll update in a couple of weeks.

I've been looking at leashes, but it's still 50/50 on the cat love front!
 
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No real change unfortunately, yet.

We're looking at maybe building a cat run outside, and the gf is now talking about a third cat cos she can't help herself! lol
 
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