Worried about possible fiv transmission Merlin was bitten

[Meowmee]

I am so worried, that’s putting it mildly. I just noticed Merlin had 2 puncture marks on that part by the ear where there’s not a lot of hair… they must be very recent because I spent a lot of time with him today, and I didn’t see it at all until just now.
Fred and cinnamon are both Fiv positive… I took them inside over a year ago… almost a year for cinnamon. They all had a very slow introduction and everything was going fine. They were no signs of aggression, and no bites or anything like that. Otherwise I would never have left them alone together or let them be together.

Now my worst nightmare has come true and I’m worried that maybe Fred or cinnamon bit Merlin and he will get fiv. I don’t know who bit him for sure I’m almost positive it couldn’t have been Quinn or Zena because they’ve been together for a long time, over two years, before Fred and cinnamon came in and they were never any bites or aggression.

There was no sign of aggression from Fred or cinnamon either that I ever saw. Fred is very scared and runs away if any of the cats chase him so I’m very surprised by this.

I’m just wondering what to do. I cleaned off the wound and put some Bactine and hydrogen peroxide on it. I don’t see any sign of infection or anything. I’m wondering if I should just leave it open or put some antibiotic ointment on it. I’m just wondering if I should test him and when, I read that it takes about a month or two to show up.

This is really a nightmare because now I have to keep them all separated, because if one of them bit Merlin they could bite Quinn or Zena too, and Quinn & Zena’s don’t have any signs of bites on them thank God.

Cinnamon has been coming down regularly to get cat food, but Fred never comes downstairs so when they interact, it’s usually in the master bedroom where Fred and cinnamon stay. Sometimes Fred will come out and go into my bedroom, but not very often lately has been more fearful, and Merlin & Zena will come in and eat with them, and Merlin chases Fred away from the food so I was giving him his own little dish in another area.

I’m at a loss for what to do now because if Fred did bite him or one of them bit him and he has a fiv, I can’t keep them anymore I’m not gonna be able to keep everybody separated, so the only choices will be to find them a new home together because they’re very bonded or to euthanize. I just don’t know what I’m gonna do.

There’s no way I’m gonna risk Quinn or Zena getting bitten and possibly getting fiv as well.

Since the bite seems to be fairly recent, I was just wondering if I should’ve rinsed it more, but it was very hard to do because I had to scruff him after I washed with soapy water and then pour a cup of water on that area to clean it off, and he was squirming around a lot. He doesn’t like to get baths or anything like that… but I know with rabies they tell you to wash the wound her about 15 minutes with water to try and clear the virus out.

The only thing I noticed on the cameras lately was Merlin or cinnamon having a playful swatting match with Zena on the bed, Zena will actually cuddle up next to cinnamon, and Merlin will sleep on the bed with them too. Fred usually stays in his cube or behind the bed.

 

[maggie101]

The bite would have to be very deep so just keep an eye on them. My cats eat in separate rooms. My cat Coco is afraid of Maggie so she sleeps at the head of my couch, Maggie sleeps on the couch or tower

 

[nurseangel]

I agree with maggie101 . It takes a deep bite. I will never forgive myself for having Big Gray PTS because he was FIV+. I felt pressured into it by the vet. However, in your situation, I would call the vet for advice. If anything, maybe it will put your mind at ease. I wish you the best.

 

[ShrimpusMinniemus]

As mentioned already above, FIV is normally transmitted by muscle-deep bites, the real serious stuff. Toms fighting for territory or when attacking a female. If I was you, I probably would get him tested eventually, just to know.
I currently have 2 FIV+ cats and have had one years ago, who made it all the way to 20 yrs old! He lived with non-FIV cats and nobody was ever infected - and there were disagreements between them.
I like to use colloidal silver (10ppm) for wounds of any sort (as it is anti-bacterial and anti-viral). Can be used external and internal/orally. I've read about accounts of kittens receiving colloidal silver orally and the virus never took hold, despite the initial test being positive. Could be of value here and worth the effort, considered it's a new bite. If you like more info on the use of silver, let me know and I'll elaborate. I'm using it successfully for all kinds of infections as well as stomatitis!
FIV is not a death sentence.

 

[Meowmee]

Ok thanks. This is a puncture bite, it has the two puncture wounds so it is a deep biteUnfortunately there is a chance of transmission if one of them bit him. I think any puncture bite with transmission of saliva can transmit it too from what I have read. I don’t think there was any screeching or hissing growling when it happened but I am not positive because I was not in the room and I was out for a while before I think it happened.

I’m kind if surprised at the responses. Yes I know fiv is not a death sentence. My Wizard had fiv and lived for 20 years or more. He was prolly three when I took him in and he was already positive then. But he never bit any of my other cats. I was worried about transmission, but the woman running a rescue I was volunteering for at the time told me as long as he was not aggressive and did not bite it would be ok. That is why I thought this would be ok too, there have been no signs of
aggression up until and now and I am not sure what caused this suddenly now really.

None of my cats have ever bitten each other ever. I am not ok with this situation and it would be irresponsible to let them all be together and risk more bites for Quinn, Zena, and Merlin too. I can’t worry about them getting bitten too and getting fiv. I would never forgive myself if that happened. I was lucky with Wizard having relatively good health until the end of his life but he did get lymphoma and he had crf too. He always had a sensitive tummy and had ibd but the fiv prolly caused the cancer.

Plus it is not a good situation if they are biting each other even without fiv because that means there are still territorial issues etc. Even after almost a year for Cinn and nearly 2 years for Fred. They are still not touchable and are fearful of me. I don’t know if I can get them adopted because of that and the fiv etc. it will kill me to euthanize but I can’t continually isolate them, they are used to having more freedom now etc. I feel I just should have let Fred back out after his limp healed and he and Cinn could have continued on outside with their heated shelters etc.

I am not sure why, assuming one of them bit him, they would even do that since there was apparently no real fight etc. Quinn bites everyone on he neck( not Fred and Cinnamon) when play wrestling but even though he does it too hard sometimes he never breaks the skin. I think Zena does it back to him and also never breaks the skin. Merlin bit me when he was outside and it was not really aggressive either, but he never bites now after I trained him not too.

So I think it had to be Fred because he is the larger cat and he is the most scared but the thing is he always runs away if I see Quinn or Merlin chasing him behind the bed he’s never been aggressive to anyone although he still hisses loudly at me if I get too close or startle him….so this is kind of shocking for me that this even happened after all this time.

oh, so now I have to worry about an abscess possibly I’m going to keep an eye on that.

I will try the colloidal silver I have some downstairs which is liquid drops which I gave to Merlin and I was trying to cure his stomach problems but it didn’t seem to have any effect. I wonder if it is still good is there an expiration date on that? I also have a job that I was using on one of my own cuts at some point so I can put that on the wound too.

I am especially worried about Quinn getting bitten because he is usually the more aggressive one with everybody. He likes to boss everybody around… in particular they seem to not be excepting Fred as much. I think they are weary of him because he’s always hiding and he never comes downstairs, as far as I know anyway. I have left the door open on and off for a few weeks now because there were no signs of aggression and Zena likes to sleep in that room with them, he and Fred are frends and he cuddles with Cinn on the bed. Maybe that led to some territorial issues because Merlin started sleeping in there too, and eating their food. I have been trying to reduce the amount of food for him downstairs to get him to lose weight and he’s very worried about food all the time… so when they eat with them in the bedroom, usually he and Zena dominate the food at first, but cinnamon would still and eat with from the same plate, and Fred was getting chased away so I put the other – across the room for him. I wonder if that is because some of the territorial issues that seem to have been going on? I was not aware of that at all. But even when I put the two dishes out Cinnamon will still go to eat from the same plate, and Fred was sometimes too, but that seems to have stopped now. But I think Merlin was getting more dominating over the food because of me reducing his food. He’s still getting plenty of food so it’s not that bad any food that’s there he gets very hyper sensitive about it.. and I noticed him chasing Fred away from the dishes once too.

I have not taken my cats to the Dvm for over a year now since I injured my spine last February. I am considerably better, but not back to normal by any means and I still don’t feel it’s safe for me to lift them. I’m just wondering what to do about that I can get someone to help me take Merlin and Quinn and maybe and get them their shots finally and get his one checked out. I just feel I’m going to be judged by my DVM for this that I took into fiv cats, etc. and now one of them bit him. I was wondering if I have my brother put them in the car and they’re carriers if someone in the Dvm office can help me carry them in and out I will have to call ahead and ask. I thought about getting a traveling Dvm, but all the cats are scared of people so I don’t know if they would even let anyone treat them at home.

Also I don’t wanna have to take him back in two months to get a test it’s going to be very expensive. So I’m just going to monitor this at home for now and see if he gets any infection there’s no sign of infection but you never know with a puncture. For instance, Sybil got a small abscess on her ear just from scratching at her ear because it was itchy. It happened so suddenly and I had to take her to the ER DVM for that.

thank you for all of your help. I will reply more later she knows already very upset last night because he couldn’t go in the room with Fred and cinnamon. They know something is going on, so maybe they were there when Merlin was bitten I wish I could tell me what happened and who bit him. Before I noticed it on his ear I did hear some running around, but they’ve been doing that a lot and it seemed like they were just running around chasing each other around playing. There was no sound of aggression. I had been sleeping for a while before he came to me and I noticed the bite I think as I recall. But I have a very strange schedule now I have to get myself back to a more a.m. schedule and with daylight savings I’m even more messed up as usual.

 

[Meowmee]

As mentioned already above, FIV is normally transmitted by muscle-deep bites, the real serious stuff. Toms fighting for territory or when attacking a female. If I was you, I probably would get him tested eventually, just to know.
I currently have 2 FIV+ cats and have had one years ago, who made it all the way to 20 yrs old! He lived with non-FIV cats and nobody was ever infected - and there were disagreements between them.
I like to use colloidal silver (10ppm) for wounds of any sort (as it is anti-bacterial and anti-viral). Can be used external and internal/orally. I've read about accounts of kittens receiving colloidal silver orally and the virus never took hold, despite the initial test being positive. Could be of value here and worth the effort, considered it's a new bite. If you like more info on the use of silver, let me know and I'll elaborate. I'm using it successfully for all kinds of infections as well as stomatitis!
FIV is not a death sentence.

Thank you did your fiv cat actually bite your other cats? And it was never transmitted? Wizard also lived for probably over 20 years, but he never bit anybody he was super gentle.

 

[silent meowlook]

Hi. Please don’t put anything topical on the wound. You are going to trap bacteria in. Leave it alone and let your cats body heal itself. Cats are excellent at healing. Don’t use anything. Rinsing it more won’t help. Stressing your cat can make things worse.
Anytime you have more than one cat there is always going to be a risk of a bite or a wound. It just happens.
I certainly would not be rehiring anyone. If you are very concerned in a month, have him tested.

 

[Meowmee]

Hi. Please don’t put anything topical on the wound. You are going to trap bacteria in. Leave it alone and let your cats body heal itself. Cats are excellent at healing. Don’t use anything. Rinsing it more won’t help. Stressing your cat can make things worse.
Anytime you have more than one cat there is always going to be a risk of a bite or a wound. It just happens.
I certainly would not be rehiring anyone. If you are very concerned in a month, have him tested.

Sorry but that is simply not true about bites. I have had numerous cats over a very long period now and this is the first bite between any of them. No bites and no transmission of fiv with a very gentle fiv plus cat over many years.

They have all lived relatively peacefully without even any scratches much less actual puncture bites. I have sprayed on some colloidal silver as advised which is water based and which will not clog the wounds. Initially rinsing it is advised for rabies and it could work for other viruses as well to stop the virus from traveling and taking hold.

Merlin is a pretty mellow, stress free cat most of the time except when it comes to food which he obsesses over. He has already forgotten that I washed/ rinsed it yesterday and sprayed it a while ago, he is sleeping peacefully at my feet now. I think he was actually glad that I washed it, and gave it attention, he looked quite relived and happy after.

I am not sure what you mean by retire? Really it is my decision, not anyone else’s. I am the one that has to live with this situation and my non fiv cats. I don’t think it is ok to let them all potentially get infected if there are more bites etc.

 

[ShrimpusMinniemus]

I will try the colloidal silver I have some downstairs which is liquid drops which I gave to Merlin and I was trying to cure his stomach problems but it didn’t seem to have any effect. I wonder if it is still good is there an expiration date on that?
[/QUOTE]

Silver doesn't expire to my knowledge. There may be a date on the bottle, but I wouldn't worry about it one bit. Perfect that you have the liquid because you can dab/spray it on the wound and give it orally. I even put a drop directly in the eyes, when needed, to fight infection. No harm done and works like a charm.

It's important to use low ppm (10 or 20ppm) and the amount and frequency is important!! A couple of drops won't do much.
The information and instructions on the Holistic Pet Care site are very useful (this is an excerpt on dosage and frequency I follow too).
I don't buy this particular silver and use Sovereign Silver, which is easy to find. It has served very well over the years.
The site also has a list of ailments to use it with. holisticpetcare.com/pet-care-blog/colloidal-silver-for-cats/
"
Although there is said to be no medical cure for FIV or FeLV infection, (FIV-positive cats are considered to be infected for life).
Once again, on colloidal silver for cats dosage: For more virulent diseases we recommend a dosage of one oral syringeful (10ml) three to seven times per day for ten days, then a syringeful twice per day for four more days. Some ailments require more aggressive treatment. In most cases the more you can get in them, the faster the healing takes place. Do not be afraid of giving too much.
This is contrary to other sites I have seen on the internet which say to give a couple of drops. This is nonsense. More than a few drops are needed to wipe out an infection. Do not be nervous about dosing heavily for a chronic or acute condition that needs serious attention.
This is the dosage for most conditions that are severe enough to require immediate attention. Of course, if it is a life-threatening condition, get your cat to the emergency vet ASAP!
"
Hope this is useful to you. My heart goes out to you.

 

[ShrimpusMinniemus]

Thank you did your fiv cat actually bite your other cats? And it was never transmitted? Wizard also lived for probably over 20 years, but he never bit anybody he was super gentle.

Yes there has been some biting when he was younger, but I think it was more in defense - he was a sweet cat by nature. The other cats knew he was sick and started bullying him. Normal behavior.. pushing the sick animal out of the group. That did however come to a halt at some point. Maybe they realized he's not going anywhere? His FIV issues were mostly with his teeth and he had the rest of them pulled by a dental specialist at 16 (there wasn't all that much left at that point anyway). Like your kitty he had stomach issues. Did well on raw food and novelty proteins for a long time, but eventually ended up with lymphoma at nearly 20 yrs old.
None of the other cats contracted FIV. Maybe it was luck or they had very robust immune systems, but the bites were also not muscle deep.

 

[silent meowlook]

The pros and cons of colloidal silver