Wondering if I should extend my kitty family

[runekeeper]

This may not be something I should put extensive thought into just because the cat I do have is a pretty considerable source of stress due to being ill, but hear me out. I'm convinced, despite the vet saying it's his teeth, that my Kippy quit eating and subsequently developed liver problems because he could not handle the loss of his two roommate kitties. For those who don't know, I had to put my other two cats Caspurr and Rolly to sleep in December of last year and February of this year, not even two full months between the two of them. When I got Kip, I had not only my other two kitties, but a third one that passed away a few months later from old age. Granted, Kip, Caspurr and Rolly were not friends. In fact, they would usually smack one another and hiss and spit and growl when they crossed paths, and Kip would regularly beat the crap out of Rolly, complete with gobs of fur everywhere and screeching. Caspurr, not so much. She was queen of the house and only had to put Kip in his place once.

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Anyway, what I'm saying is even though these three fought, I don't think Kip could adjust to being the only cat in the house. They had their spats, but the kitties would often cry for one another when they thought they were all alone. I think it was after Caspurr was put down that Kip went on his little hunger strike, and between mourning over Caspurr and proceeding to accept poor Rolly's fate and eventual passing, I just did not notice his weight loss at first. So this is why I'm wondering if maybe it would help to get Kip a companion. Of course, I would weigh the pros and cons of doing so:

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PROS
- Could possibly help Kip to not be alone
- Wouldn't just be there to help Kippy, as I would love another cat
- Am used to a multi-cat household, so nothing I could not handle in terms of numbers

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CONS
- Might NOT help Kip; might, instead, stress him out more and lead to further food aversion (though he ate just fine when I brought him in the house 9 years ago)
- Fighting; Kip's a moody little thing and despite his age, health and having no teeth, I think he could whoop another cat's arse. Can cats be bipolar? I swear Kip is. He flip flops constantly in terms of mood.
- My mother, with whom I unfortunately still live, would almost certainly object to another cat. Her words a few years ago were something like, "We ain't gettin' no more f***in' cats once these ones croak!" Of course, it's perfectly fine for her to bring home a loud, destructive dog that has caused more damage to the house than all the cats and the other dog combined.
- Mother's dog is a sh*t and while his behavior is generally just chasing after and barking at the cats, he sometimes gets aggressive and attacks them
- My mother has no patience with animals and would smack the cat if she caught them scratching the rug or peeing outside the box

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Seems like the downsides outnumber the upsides, but I still wonder if it would be beneficial to Kip to have a companion again. I drove past the local humane society on the way to an interview last week and it took all my strength to not go in and buy a cat.

 

[vball91]

Honestly, it does seem like the cons outweigh the pros. Between your mother and her dog, it seems like a stressful situation to bring a new cat into. I would wait until you have your own place.

 

[miskinsincap]

Though I'm usually for a multi-cat house, I must say that I agree with vball91. But I'm not actually looking at it as a pro-con count. I think Kip can probably handle the stress of another cat better than the loss, cause that'll bring something full of life rather than an empty space in his life. But, I know another person, especially a mother who doesn't approve another cat in the house can be very problematic. On top of that there's another pet that she'll favor all the time, so her dog will constantly stir the balance in the house, and you'll probably have nothing to do since your mother will take anything you do against her. So I suggest you either convince your mother (and by convince I mean not only accept but also make her "want" another cat), or wait until you have a house with your own rules. 

 

[paws4life]

Im agreeing with wait intill you get your own apartment or house...

 

[runekeeper]

What I hate the most is that a vast majority of apartments in my area are not only insanely priced for the size and average income of the town, but most of them are petless. Yes, gods forbid a whisker gets on someone's precious floor! That's what security deposits are for if the animal causes damage. You can't tell me these people are all allergic. I wonder if they realize how many potential renters they are alienating by their no-pets nonsense. Plus I've been having a lot of problems finding a job, so I don't know how I'd pay rent anyway.

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I suppose I could convince my mother to let me have another cat. I've done it before. Every single cat I ever brought home, she would have a fit about, but would eventually let me keep them. And as said, we've had as many as 4 cats in here at once without issues beyond the usual shooing away from couch scratching and breaking up fights. Ugh, I just wish that dog would run away or something. He's so annoying, and when he goes after the cats, it's always totally unprovoked; the cat will just be walking or sitting or laying, and all of a sudden the dog has them by the neck. He did that to Caspurr a couple days before she had to be put down when she was just walking around in the kitchen. There's no way to tell when he's just going to run after the cat and when he's going to attack either. The other dog has never had issues with the cats and is the sweetest dog I've ever known. I honestly don't even know why she keeps the problem dog because she's always screaming when he barks at nothing, chases the cats, or generally misbehaves. I think it's because the dog is a breed that is worth money and she got him for free.

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Also, if/when I ever get my own place, I don't know if I'd not only be able to even have a pet, but if Kip would still be alive. It could easily be years and years before I could do so, if I even could. It's not that I don't want to...it's just I am not a very hireable person due to lack of real experience and advanced degrees, plus with all my student debts, there's no telling if I could afford to take care of myself. It's a really crappy place to be in, but the fuzzies are some of the very few things that keep me sane and relatively happy.

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I just want for my Kippy to be happy again for however much longer he lives. I also just wish I knew if there was any way to do that besides being his hooman, or I wish I could know for sure that a new kitty would help him not be so lonely. I'd feel like a right jerk if I adopted a kitty to be his friend and, for whatever reason, I had to take it back to wherever I got it from. Dammit Kip, why you no speak English and tell me what you want?! Anyway, thank you all for your advice. I have not made a definite choice yet and probably will not anytime soon, but any input helps me weigh my options better.

 

[vball91]

I wonder if introducing the dog to Kip from scratch would help? Per this article: http://www.thecatsite.com/a/introducing-cats-to-dogs.

I am a little concerned about the dog's behavior. Chasing and catching cats by the neck is not safe and must cause a whole lot of stress to any cat.

 

[miskinsincap]

What I hate the most is that a vast majority of apartments in my area are not only insanely priced for the size and average income of the town, but most of them are petless. Yes, gods forbid a whisker gets on someone's precious floor! That's what security deposits are for if the animal causes damage. You can't tell me these people are all allergic. I wonder if they realize how many potential renters they are alienating by their no-pets nonsense. Plus I've been having a lot of problems finding a job, so I don't know how I'd pay rent anyway.
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I suppose I could convince my mother to let me have another cat. I've done it before. Every single cat I ever brought home, she would have a fit about, but would eventually let me keep them. And as said, we've had as many as 4 cats in here at once without issues beyond the usual shooing away from couch scratching and breaking up fights. Ugh, I just wish that dog would run away or something. He's so annoying, and when he goes after the cats, it's always totally unprovoked; the cat will just be walking or sitting or laying, and all of a sudden the dog has them by the neck. He did that to Caspurr a couple days before she had to be put down when she was just walking around in the kitchen. There's no way to tell when he's just going to run after the cat and when he's going to attack either. The other dog has never had issues with the cats and is the sweetest dog I've ever known. I honestly don't even know why she keeps the problem dog because she's always screaming when he barks at nothing, chases the cats, or generally misbehaves. I think it's because the dog is a breed that is worth money and she got him for free.
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Also, if/when I ever get my own place, I don't know if I'd not only be able to even have a pet, but if Kip would still be alive. It could easily be years and years before I could do so, if I even could. It's not that I don't want to...it's just I am not a very hireable person due to lack of real experience and advanced degrees, plus with all my student debts, there's no telling if I could afford to take care of myself. It's a really crappy place to be in, but the fuzzies are some of the very few things that keep me sane and relatively happy.
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I just want for my Kippy to be happy again for however much longer he lives. I also just wish I knew if there was any way to do that besides being his hooman, or I wish I could know for sure that a new kitty would help him not be so lonely. I'd feel like a right jerk if I adopted a kitty to be his friend and, for whatever reason, I had to take it back to wherever I got it from. Dammit Kip, why you no speak English and tell me what you want?!

Anyway, thank you all for your advice. I have not made a definite choice yet and probably will not anytime soon, but any input helps me weigh my options better.

I feel your pain about many of the issues to rent your own place. I did struggle with similar things from time to time. Probably since I was too tired while reading the thread, I thought you were planning to move out in near future. Since living with your mother seems to be the best arrangement for your life right now, I believe it is also the best arrangement for your fuzzies. Cause if you try to force change the conditions in your life and make yourself miserable as a result, they will be the first ones effected.

Anyway, since this the way things are right now, I suggest you to take things slowly and give a little time to yourself and Kip (and to your mother perhaps). I'm also a bit concerned about the dog's behavior. I admit that I have less experience with dogs than I have with cats, but I always find dogs easier to convince for behaving good. So maybe you can try to work on the dog's "getting kitties by the neck" problem, and your mother's impatience about their bad behaviors. You can also spend more time with Kip, observe him and have some quality time with him. Kind of like preparing the house for a new cat; in time if you decide to get a new cat, the house will be (more) ready for him/her, and if you decide not to introduce another cat, the house will still be a more peacefull place to live in for its residents. 

I wish you and Kip all the best 

 

 

[runekeeper]

I will admit that Kip made some progress with the dog. For the last four or so years, he would hide in the basement all day long and only come upstairs at night when he knew the dogs were behind a closed door. Only recently did he start coming up during the day to sit at the very top of the stairs, and the dog generally won't bother him. The dog will still run after Kip if he spots Kip in the kitchen, but that's more progress than he's made since the dog got here. I'm just not sure how to approach the dog's behavior, or if it would eve be worth trying to fix. Said dog is also very food aggressive, for some reason; he's bitten me more than once when I would try to remove an empty bowl from under him. Also, obedience training would require consistency from everyone, and my mother wouldn't keep it up. It's easier for her to smack the dog with a fly swatter and scream at him, even if it's ineffective. In fact, she used to keep a fly swatter near her recliner so it would be within reach if the dog acted up. The dog found it one day and ate the plastic swatter end off it. Mom saw it, probably hours after he'd done it, and smacked him with the metal rod part. Like I said, no patience. I would be the only one trying to train the dog; she gets frustrated trying to use the TV remote, so there's no way she'd keep up with any kind of behavior training. No way she'd pay for classes either because she's cheap. So it's by no means a matter of not wanting to try to make the dog behave...it's just there would only be about 50% cooperation among the human family members and I don't think that's enough for training to be effective.

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Even if I did get another cat, there's another question I would have to ask: What would an ideal age be for a new cat? A kitten might be too energetic and bothersome, a young to middle-aged adult cat might prove to be too strong or aggressive, and an older cat might not be able to take Kip on a bad day, not to mention there's a higher chance of developing health problems that would take my focus away from Kip's health. But each one has an upside too...a kitten would grow up knowing Kippy and being used to him, a senior cat might be too mellow to give a crap. Not sure about the young adult cat (like between the ages of 1 and 7 years), though the young adult would be best against the dog, whereas a kitten or senior cat could probably be hurt more easily if the dog got a hold of them. I'm personally also not picky about gender, but I don't know if a male or female would be a better friend for a male cat. It would be spayed or neutered, of course (Kippy was neutered when it was official he was staying), but I don't know if gender makes any difference.

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I'm not used to thinking this much about new cats. In the past, it was just kind of a matter of grabbing a friendly stray out of the backyard. My first cat was a stray that ran into the house on my birthday. Caspurr and Rolly were part of a stray queen's litter that my family took in and re-homed (I only wanted Caspurr, but no one wanted Rolly and it was actually my mother's idea to keep him), Kip was a stray that was just supposed to stay in the house over the winter and he wound up staying for good. I'm just so used to taking in kitties right off the street without a second thought. General practice is, "Does s/he have feline leukemia? No? Get him/her neutered/spayed, then!"

 

[miskinsincap]

First of all, don't think that the dog doesn't worth trying; in my experience, bad dogs can turn out to be really good companions if you can work out the problem. And, as I said, I'm not a dog behavior expert, but I don't think that you need the full cooperation of the house to fix some main issues, dogs are pack-minded animals, if your mother doesn't try then you will be his leader and not your mother. But you need to earn his respect and trust, so you need to be consistent and patient. Food agressiveness might be a sign that in his head he's trying to fill the alpha position, so you should run for that position instead. I'm sure you can find some useful tips about that if you search the internet. 

As for the gender/age, I'm not sure what to say. You wrote that you're used to adopt stray cats. Why don't you just wait/keep your eyes open for another stray? I don't know where you're from, but in this part of the world, shelter cats are usually the rescued cats. In your situation (with a semi-rebel dog and a grumpy mother in the picture) a young stray with a bit of life experience can be a better choice; he can both defend himself from the dog, and he'll be gratefull for the warm shelter you give. And young cats can usually learn to get along with other felines in the house more easily. Actually, if you're living in a neighborhood with stray cats around, at the end of fall or beginning of winter, there's a good chance that you'll spot a young cat looking for a warm and safe place to live. 

 

[paws4life]

Honestly if your having problems not getting a job and having no money then you shouldn't get another pet intill you can afford to support your self because your going to have to get this kitten its shots and nuter with in the 1st 6 months... If you can't afford your self how are you going to afford that? Also I know alot of landlords don't allow pets but that's because peoples pets have messed up their buildings or caused alot of problems and that's why the changed it to no pets. My first apartment was no pets and we knew it was because the window ledges were all chewed, doors scratched Raw carpets ripped out and replaced because a dog ruined the apartment. We begged to be allowed my little dog and we only were allowed because he was hyper alergenic, small and they liked him I had invited them to my home to meet him a see there was no damage. Cats can be aa bad to.. When Artemis got sick he peed on the floors were lucky its all that stone tile and wood and Amaya took a spot that had a little paint chip and wore it down for us to find she's stopped now... We filled it and are painting the room but not everyone is responsible my friends cat pees all over the place and they don't care.. I won't go over there... Also they may not want pets incase the next renter is allergic to cats and the dander gets around and causes allergic reactions. But anyways some don't and some do... We pay higher rent to live in a pet friendly building.. Sometimes you have take more expensive apartments or take less then what you want. I'd live in a shoe box to be allowed my cats

also the dog chasing cats is very stressful for cats and dangerous. We had a Doberman puppy here who would grab them by the necks or tails and rip on the fur. We couldn't train him not to he wouldn't stop then our cat fell ill and wouldn't progress.. We made the hard choice of getting rid of the dog and the cat made a full turn around 2-3 weeks we seen instant difference also they can't take that kind of stress. Imagine someone huge always chasing you or grabbing you hard or yelling at you that's how they feel

 

[runekeeper]

I don't live in a hugely residential area right now, but out in the country. Not like deep back woods, but also not the 'burbs. I have seen a few strays in the backyard over the years and try to befriend them, but most run away even after I give them treats. I found only one since Kip that was very very friendly, but I only saw that one once. Plus if my mother sees cats in the yard, she screams at them until they run off...some of these cats do not care, so Mom might be outside screaming for a good 15 minutes before the cats just calmly walked away.

Also, I would not necessarily need to get a brand new kitten. Failing a stray finding its way into the yard again, I would have no issues going to the humane society and getting an altered, vaccinated cat for $25. I'm also not looking for any particular breed - just whatever cat I would "click" with. But I'm getting ahead of myself. I hate not having a job! I want to be on my own so, so much, and I can't. I wish I could give my Kippy a home where dogs wouldn't chase him and he'd be a little more comfortable. Le sigh. I suppose it would be best to just not go far out of my way to find a new cat, but if one decides to make me his or her hooman, then I won't turn them away.

I know of one cat that I would love to take in...my ex's cat. It's I think 7 or 8 years old, quite a heavy cat (not fat, but just meaty), gets along with his roommate cat and would only occasionally hiss at the dog that was in the house for a short while (which was a big, friendly golden retriever). And the cat is just sweet as pie too. He's very neglected and usually gets scolded for so much as meowing, which is why my ex wants to re-home him. But my mother absolutely loathes my ex and if she knew I was not only still talking to him, but that I brought home his cat, she'd probably throw the cat right outside. Poor kitty.

 

[miskinsincap]

Honestly if your having problems not getting a job and having no money then you shouldn't get another pet intill you can afford to support your self because your going to have to get this kitten its shots and nuter with in the 1st 6 months... If you can't afford your self how are you going to afford that? Also I know alot of landlords don't allow pets but that's because peoples pets have messed up their buildings or caused alot of problems and that's why the changed it to no pets. My first apartment was no pets and we knew it was because the window ledges were all chewed, doors scratched Raw carpets ripped out and replaced because a dog ruined the apartment. We begged to be allowed my little dog and we only were allowed because he was hyper alergenic, small and they liked him I had invited them to my home to meet him a see there was no damage. Cats can be aa bad to.. When Artemis got sick he peed on the floors were lucky its all that stone tile and wood and Amaya took a spot that had a little paint chip and wore it down for us to find she's stopped now... We filled it and are painting the room but not everyone is responsible my friends cat pees all over the place and they don't care.. I won't go over there... Also they may not want pets incase the next renter is allergic to cats and the dander gets around and causes allergic reactions. But anyways some don't and some do... We pay higher rent to live in a pet friendly building.. Sometimes you have take more expensive apartments or take less then what you want. I'd live in a shoe box to be allowed my cats

also the dog chasing cats is very stressful for cats and dangerous. We had a Doberman puppy here who would grab them by the necks or tails and rip on the fur. We couldn't train him not to he wouldn't stop then our cat fell ill and wouldn't progress.. We made the hard choice of getting rid of the dog and the cat made a full turn around 2-3 weeks we seen instant difference also they can't take that kind of stress. Imagine someone huge always chasing you or grabbing you hard or yelling at you that's how they feel

paws4life, I absolutely agree with you about thinking ahead and considering the needs of a pet before letting one into someone's life, but I must say I disagree with many of the things you wrote above. 

First of all, I think a few misbehaved pets is only a bad excuse for the trend of no-pet apartments. If a pet has a tendency to ruin the place, then it's its owners fault, not the pet's, and it is its owners responsibility to fix the damage done. With or without pets, inconsiderate tenants can give the landlords trouble, and there are laws to protect the landlords' rights in such cases. Also in my opinion, the possible allergies of the next tenant is not a good reason for such a policy, cause I know that getting help from a good cleaning service can solve that problem perfectly. Actually, I have a friend who is badly allergic to cat hair, and she had no dfficulty moving into an previously multı-cat apartment recently. She just called the cleaning service first. We also choosed my place by considering the needs of our kitties. We pay higher  rent, and I'm happy to do that, cause we live in a cat/dog friendly neighbourhood now. But in general, I find those excuses lame for to throw the pets out of community life. 

I'd also prefer living in a worse place with my cats rather than living in a sterile luxury without them. In general I think it's perfectly ok to live in a shoebox, if you and your cats live happily there. But if you'll be miserable about your life there, then your kitties will have to deal with both fitting inside the box and a miserable you beside them every day. Living with someone else has financial advantages, so you can spend the little money you have for the kids instead of paying it as rent. 

I also don't believe that taking good care of a pet is directly related to the income of the owner. It is of course essential to consider the needs of our pets beforehand; we all know that they don't live on air, and water doesn't cure them when they are sick. But if I had to find someone to trust my babies with, the first name that comes to my mind is a friend of mine who has little income but a big hearth. I'd rather have him to look after my kitties instead of my other well-paid friends, cause I know he'd do anything and everything for their well beings. 

Yes, the dog concerns me as well. RuneKeeper, seriously, I think you should consider spending some time with the dog and try to soften his attitude. And the dog is the reason that I suggested a stray cat. I think s stray cat with some outside experience can usually deal with such agressive dog behavior much more easily. But please do spend some time with the dog before that, he might come around and surprise you with some attention, really. 

But before all of that, paws4life has a point; you should consider the needs of the newcomer first. It is always tempting to have another fluffy furball in the house. But you should be absolutely sure that you're not doing this for yourself, but for Kip. In my opinion you should only get another cat if you think life will be better for Kip AND the new kitty. Please take your time, observe Kip, and go slowly before deciding. 

 

[runekeeper]

Personally, I think a child has the potential to cause far more and far greater damage to an apartment or rental house than a pet. You show me a dog, cat, rabbit, bird, reptile or rodent that will draw on the walls with permanent marker or smear feces so deep into the rug that it might require removal of the rug to get it all out. And this is just the average toddler; consider how much damage a mentally disabled child can do (or just one that is not disciplined, which can sometimes be confused with mental illness). It's not fair that there are pet deposits, but no child deposits. I know it just takes a couple bad eggs to spoil it for everyone, but it's so ridiculous to turn away everyone with an animal under the assumption that everyone is a horrible, negligent pet owner.

I honestly have never seen an apartment advertised in my area as being pet friendly. Some do not come out and say "no pets," but my guess is 9 times out of 10, it is petless and they just don't say that for whatever reason. It's so lame. Apparently pet owners here are supposed to live with their parents or in boxes.

I can try to do something about the dog's behavior, but I'm not expecting a lot of success. I don't know if he's been untrained for too long and is beyond help or not.

 

[miskinsincap]

 
I can try to do something about the dog's behavior, but I'm not expecting a lot of success. I don't know if he's been untrained for too long and is beyond help or not.

RuneKeeper, I am so very much busy at the moment and have so little time to write, but I've found this article for you on the internet regarding the dog (and btw, what's his name?)

http://www.dogbreedinfo.com/topdogrules.htm

This is more or less the way I aprooach to the dogs I owned or stayed in my house temporarily including some real troublemakers (of different ages). I personally never tried to train any dog for something specific, but in general I want/need them to keep the peace at home intact. I don't think you need contribution from your mother; I once had a disagreement of that kind with my husband about our dog, and it ended up our boy being a perfect dog with me and treating my husband as a puppy toy 

Anyway, as I said I'm not a dog behavior expert, I usually go with my instincts. But what works for me is that, I treat them as I am by all means their superior, and there's nothing they can do to change that, I try not to get angry or loose my patience; if I feel like I'm about to loose my patience, I send them away from me. Also I create time to play and/or walk with them regularly, so that they feel they have a place in my pack, and my presence is a good thing as long as they agree with my command. And as for the food agression, if they accept you as a notable member of the pack, even if they can get the food from someone else, they will want the food you give them, and it means if you persist they will accept your rules on that matter eventually.  As for the cat chasing problem, once a dog thinks that you're superior to him, challenging anything under your protection will mean challenging you personally, so he'll hopefully try to avoid that. But again, I'm sure you can find more detailed tips/help, if you search it online. 

I gotta go now; I have tonnes of work to finish before tomorrow. Please update us if anything new comes up.