Why Ok For “pedigreed” But Not Ok For “non-pedigreed” Cats?

[Ninipow13]

Hey!
Was just reading the forum rules and I had a question about something I read. I understand you guys are pro-neuter/spay. But there’s a statement saying that if you’re a responsible breeder of pedigreed cats, you’re ok with not spaying/neutering them. So my question is, why are we ok with certain breeds having more babies but when it comes to our domestic house cat, they HAVE to be fixed? Why is a Persian or Bengals cat’s life worth more than a domestic cat? What if I am a responsible pet owner/breeder but I “breed” (indoor) domestic cats? Like what’s the difference? A cat is a cat. A bunch of paperwork doesn’t make a difference to me. All lives are worth the same if you ask me. Someone please clarify that for me if you can.

 

[catsknowme]

Welcome to TCS!!
Excellent question that you have asked! The answer: For every time that an owned kitten is adopted, a baby kitten or cat is sentenced to death in a shelter.
Even backyard breeders are frowned upon here, not because we love some cats less but because we love ALL cats more. We want to help the kitties who need help the most . The only pedigreed cats that I have ever owned were given to me. Our Maine Coon is indeed extraordinary for size, intelligence and personality but certainly those traits can be found in the moggy classes. The MC has zero snobbery so why should I?

 

[abyeb]

The reasoning behind selectively breeding cats is this: Pedigreed cats are rare, with only about 5% of housecats being purebred. Responsible breeders seek to both preserve and improve a cat breed, which would otherwise be lost forever. Additionally, while there are no truly hypoallergenic cat breeds, there are some (most notably the Siberian and LaPerm), which produce less of the Fel d 1 allergen, which can allow those with cat allergies to enjoy feline companionship. Pedigree cats from responsible breeders are almost always fixed upon adoption. Only the best examples of the breed are mated.

I’m saying all of this as the proud purrson of Domestic Shorthair.

The reasons for spaying and neutering are given here: Why You Should Spay And Neuter Your Cats

Shelters are very overcrowded, and no matter how many people spay/neuter their pet cats, unplanned matings will happen, so there will always be the need for cat lovers to adopt.

Here is the Cat Fanciers Association’s statement on this topic: http://cfa.org/Portals/0/documents/legislative/whowilldefend.pdf. This section in the first paragraph basically sums up the argument: “We are proud of the recognized breeds with their long history, unique character, personalities and appearance that make them an ideal choice for many families and individuals. Even if there were no pedigreed cats left in the United States this would not change the numbers of cats relinquished to shelters by their owners or the reasons why cats are homeless on the streets“ (Miller 1).

 

[epona]

Also pedigree breeding cats (from good ethical breeders) have health checks including blood tests before mating to make sure they are not infected with any diseases that could be transmitted by breeding, and most these days are DNA tested to make sure they are not passing on life-limiting conditions to the next generation.

 

[goingpostal]

Purebred cats from ethical breeders are sold already fixed or on non breeding contracts to screened knowledgeable homes and required to be returned if the owner cannot keep them at any point in their life. They are bred to meet a standard and have proper temperament for the breed, to have correct structure and to minimize health issues through screenings. Breed clubs also usually run rescues and take in any cats of their breed that might end up in shelters from irresponsible bybs. So they are not adding to the massive cat overpopulation problem and also working hard to prevent it. If you go on petfinder, there's very few actual purebred cats sitting in shelters, the regular housecats you are producing there are hundreds of thousands.

 

[Ninipow13]

Purebred cats from ethical breeders are sold already fixed or on non breeding contracts to screened knowledgeable homes and required to be returned if the owner cannot keep them at any point in their life. They are bred to meet a standard and have proper temperament for the breed, to have correct structure and to minimize health issues through screenings. Breed clubs also usually run rescues and take in any cats of their breed that might end up in shelters from irresponsible bybs. So they are not adding to the massive cat overpopulation problem and also working hard to prevent it. If you go on petfinder, there's very few actual purebred cats sitting in shelters, the regular housecats you are producing there are hundreds of thousands.

Oh I'm not producing any cats. It was more like a hypothetical question/situation.

 

[catsknowme]

Oh I'm not producing any cats. It was more like a hypothetical question/situation.

I sensed that - I figured that you were probably playing devil's advocate to get additional talking points for those already in your arsenal of "facts that help cats".

 

[Willowy]

Why is a Persian or Bengals cat’s life worth more than a domestic cat? What if I am a responsible pet owner/breeder but I “breed” (indoor) domestic cats? Like what’s the difference?

The biggest thing, I think, is that you will NOT be able to find good forever homes for those kittens. Perhaps you think every cat's life is worth the same (as I do), but the fact is that there is a demand for purebred cats and little demand for moggies.

Also, part of being a responsible breeder is to know your market, so that if, say, there's no demand for Persians in your area, you wouldn't breed Persians. It's not automatically more responsible to breed purebreds, if responsible breeding practices aren't followed.

Cats are prolific enough breeders that there will always be enough moggie kittens born from accidental litters, no reason to do it on purpose.

 

[StefanZ]

. So my question is, why are we ok with certain breeds having more babies but when it comes to our domestic house cat, they HAVE to be fixed? Why is a Persian or Bengals cat’s life worth more than a domestic cat? .... A cat is a cat. A bunch of paperwork doesn’t make a difference to me. All lives are worth the same if you ask me. Someone please clarify that for me if you can.

1. The lifes are equal. We do fight dearly for all already born and double so for those defenceless.

2. There is seldom need to create new moggies. The shelters are overfull of them. And many many get pts there because they lack place. So a home owner getting a litter because its fun[or "forgot" to spay] is de facto killing another litter.

3. A typical buyer of a pedigree cat will seldom adopting a moggie instead. So there isnt much real competition there.
But!

4. Already owner of a pedigreed cat may often adopt an ex homeless moggie as company.
Or give help or support to rescuers and shelters in other ways.

5. Thus its in interest of friends of domestics and homeless there is a group of "middle class", of decent people whom are owners of purebreds - and of serious responsible breeders.

6. Byb breeders are outside these groups and most of them are thus disliked. They do it solely for money and harm them all

 

[Elphaba09]

As others have said, ethical breeding of specific breeds helps the breed and the kittens sold from the litters are typically already fixed or have a no-breeding clause in the contract. No one is saying their lives are worth more. It is just a that purebred cat breeding is controlled and the kittens are more likely to find responsible homes. That is to say that it is not often that you will see a purebred cat who has been dumped on the streets, used for bait in dog fights, or sitting for years in a shelter.

We have nine cats. We help take care of a small colony. We foster cats from the shelter. Not once have I seen a purebred cat come through the colony or the shelter. And none have ended up becoming part of our family because they were found dumped on the street.

Personally, I do not think there is a such a thing as a responsible breeder of domestic cats. I am not saying that those who breed them are cruel or awful or anything else. My issue stems from why. Why add to the unwanted cats when so many are already born and needed love?

 

[Fish Em]

There is nothing heroic about breeding highly prolific animals of any kind. I went there on a small scale with fighting fish (not for fighting). Ethical does not equal good cause.

I guess everyone gave honest answers already, just wanted to say my perspective.

Ethical breeders are ethical partly because the gain is more than the loss. They can afford to cover the bills of caring for litters. If you breed moggies, the loss will be more than the gain. There will be more cats born usually than find homes. People love to have purebred animals. Breeders cater to this demand and can spend a lot to take care of the litter because the people will buy the kittens for higher prices. Of course there are many irresponsible breeders that just want to make a buck and don't care about the health history, check ups or anything.

Breeding moggies, you will have to charge more than rescue shelters for vet care for the same look of cat at the end. It is just not worth it.

 

[amethyst]

There are many differences between a responsible ethical breeder and just someone with random male and female cats. The breeder is going to have done DNA and other health checks to make sure they are producing as healthy a cat as possible. In some cases genetic issue can skip generations so you need to look as far back as possible. They will make sure the cats are not carriers of anything and if they are they are not bred with another carrier (if it's a recessive trait) that can end up producing unhealthy kittens. So at the very least they know what kind of health issues they could have to watch for and at best they may be removing genetic problems from future cats. I don't think that all purebreds should breed, only the best of the best, purebred does not equal well bred. I only think intentional breeding should be done to improve the animals, not just to make more. On that same note I don't agree with breeding purely for looks either.

Also a responsible breeder is not going to normally have more then a litter or two a year and only put their cats into breeding when they actually have a waiting list of potential buyers. For some breeds the wait list can be years either because not enough people are interested or because there is a demand but they only produce a couple litters a year. All the buyers also need to be screened for the right match, and the breeder should be willing and able to keep or take back any and all kittens they produce. They will normally have either part of their home or a separate building where intact males and females are housed separate, and they are not put into breeding until they are old enough. They are also taken out of breeding and spayed or neutered once they reach a certain age. So really in the end even responsible breeders get their cats spayed and neutered too.

They also have a vet account set aside for regular visits and for when things go wrong. Things can go very wrong, c-sections, emergency spays, treating wounds from a mating gone wrong, etc and you end up running up thousands of dollars in vet bills in a single visit. They also have to accept that bad things happen and the mother rejects the kittens or worse, dies, so they need to be prepared to hand raise the kittens. Or a mate pairing goes wrong, and one or both cats end up severely injured or dead from a bad fight.

So, if you are willing and able to do health and genetic tests on the cats you are planning to breed to rule out any genetic issues. Have a plan to help improve cats somehow through carrying on some special traits these cats have. Are able to keep all the kittens you produce if need be and can house males and females separate (if not fixed). Have a sizable vet fund setup, and are able to care for kittens 24/7 until they are weaned if need be. Then I don't really see an issue with going ahead with breeding non-pedigreed cats, that is how some new breeds come about.

 

[surya]

Clearly purebred cats do have more value than regular cats to the people who own them. They could save a regular cat that is intended for the gas chamber instead of having a designer cat. I do understand all the arguments for pedigreed animals, but I personally do not agree with it.

 

[Fish Em]

The questions was why is it considered ethical to breed pedigreed cats and not considered ethical to breed non pedigree cat.

 

[surya]

The questions was why is it considered ethical to breed pedigreed cats and not considered ethical to breed non pedigree cat.

Yes, and why some cats lives are more valuable than others. Maybe you missed that part.

 

[Wile]

Yes, and why some cats lives are more valuable than others. Maybe you missed that part.

OP framed the question in terms of some lives having more value than others, but this was actually a post about why this forum feels it is necessary to spay and neuter your pet if you are not a legitimate breeder. The value of lives doesn't really enter the discussion, or we would be discussing kill shelters instead of breeders.

 

[surya]

OP framed the question in terms of some lives having more value than others, but this was actually a post about why this forum feels it is necessary to spay and neuter your pet if you are not a legitimate breeder. The value of lives doesn't really enter the discussion, or we would be discussing kill shelters instead of breeders.

Really, I thought spaying and neutering was to save lives?

 

[NewYork1303]

I have never owned a purebred cat, but I do know the answer to this from a dog perceptive, so hang tight.

Basically the domestic shorthair cats you would breed at home would be taking up a home that otherwise might have gone to a shelter cat since a shelter kitten and your kittens would be similar. A purebred breeder does not take away homes from shelter cats because the person who buys the purebred cat would never have chosen to rescue a cat from the shelter. They have a specific reason that they want a specific breed (temperament, hair type, ect) and won't just go out and get a shelter animal instead.

Going back to the dogs: For example, I have a purebred Cardigan Welsh Corgi. Could I have gone to a shelter and found a dog like this to rescue? The answer is no. This is a fairly rare breed that has specific traits that fit into my life style and what I want in a dog. I do not want a Pembroke Corgi, nor do I want a corgi mix. I wanted a dog raised by a reputable breeder and exposed from the age of 10 days to a range of stimulus to make the dog one that was hearty and capable of participating in a range of dog sports, capable of going out into the world and being thrilled to meet everything that came across his path. I would never have adopted a puppy from the shelter since I would not have been getting the dog that I want from that situation.

My assumption is that those purchasing purebred cats also love the traits of the specific breeds they choose and would not choose to adopt a cat instead.

 

[lutece]

It is a reasonable question to ask, and something that breeders are asked all the time.

In my opinion, the answer is that the "cat fancy" community (the organized group of responsible "hobby breeders" who breed and show pedigreed cats) has, overall, a significant POSITIVE effect on the welfare of all cats. This community is part of the solution, not part of the problem.

The "cat fancy" is a small community. The number of pedigreed cats produced by the cat fancy is small, and the majority of kittens produced are spayed and neutered. Hobby breeders keep in touch with the buyers of their kittens, ready to help in case of a problem, or if an adult cat ever needs to be rehomed. Breed rescue is there for any cats that manage to fall through the cracks. Breeders within the cat fancy community also help and support one another, working to ensure that breeding programs within this community are ethical and all cats receive proper care.

The majority of breeders are also involved, to a greater or lesser extent, in general feline rescue, TNR, and a wide array of other feline welfare programs. Breeders are passionately involved in feline health research and education, and raise money for research. Breeders work very hard to be good partners with shelters, rescues and foster organizations. Hobby breeders and rescuers are ALLIES; we are all on the same side in working to promote feline health and welfare.

When people say "it's okay to breed registered pedigreed cats that are part of a responsible breeding program," the important part of that statement in my opinion is that breeding should always be done as "part of a responsible breeding program." Responsible breeding is not just about the pedigree status of the cats... not all pedigreed cats should be bred, and sometimes responsible breeding programs occasionally incorporate a small number of non-pedigreed cats, too, in order to bring in genetic diversity. Responsible breeding is not just about the features of one's own individual breeding program (health testing, selection of breeding cats, proper care of cats, proper placement of kittens. etc) although these things are all important; it's also about doing this as part of the wider community of responsible breeders. Responsible breeding is ultimately a community activity, not an individual activity.

 

[Wile]

Really, I thought spaying and neutering was to save lives?

For some it might be. IMO funded programs dedicated to spaying and neutering your pets are about solving a social problem related to overpopulation of domestic animals, not saving lives. If you breed domestic cats that no one wants, you contribute to that problem and draining resources out of the existing system.

There was an interesting report released by the Canadian Federation of Humane Societies a year or so ago that talked about spay/neuter programs in Canada. Basically the crux of the report was that they have been extremely successful here. While there are still problems with too many cats in shelters, in Canada we are finally starting to get on top of the pet overpopulation problem. The biggest challenge they saw moving forward was still backyard breeders who don't neuter and give away their kittens for next to nothing to neighbours and family. They concluded that this attitude was responsible for promoting the view that cats are disposable pets, and for the general underinvestment in cats for things like medical care (that cats lives are worth less). Responsible breeders from what I recall didn't come up in the report at all, except as an acknowledgement that they make up 5% of the population vs almost 40% backyard breeder, which likely means that they don't really contribute to the problem here.

Edit: made a few edits for accuracy. Changed SPCA to Humane Society, TNR to spay/neuter, added percentage of breeder cats