Where to begin?

[pawpurrints]

So I've been reading up on nutrition for my 3 1/2 week old kittens.  The raw diet sounds interesting, but it seems so daunting at the start.  Should I start with the high end wet foods first for weaning, then introduce raw?  Or start raw from the weaning stage?

I have to find a good meat grinder.  Is there anyway to use a food processor instead to begin with?  Plus the recipe I saw on Dr. Pierson's site seems easy, but do I really have to add the supplemental stuff?

That said, how small should the pieces be? 

I don't know yet if I will do raw...i really want to try, but it just seems daunting making sure each serving contains the right amount of meat combinations, plus of course adding supplemental vitamins. Someone tell me where I should start.

 

[ritz]

I'm glad you're reading about nutrition; good food = better health (all things being equal).

To see how your kitten takes to raw, first start out with commercial raw; it looks like wet food.  RadCat is a very good brand, as is Primal and Bravo.  You can mix raw with high quality wet food.

The grinder/food processor must be powerful enough to chop up bones.  If you search the Raw feeding forum for 'grinder' you'll probably find one people like.  And do check out the reviews on Amazon.

Supplements are important; Alnutrin is well regarded..

I feed prey model role (use to be called Frankenprey), am don't know the specifics about Dr. Pierson's receipe--other than many people on the raw forum use that recipe.  I balance meat/liver/secreting organs over a week's time, not daily.  I supplement with Krill oil and probiotics.

Finally, try not to get too wrapped up in the details; follow the general principles and you'll be fine.  www.catcentric.org is a good site.

 

[lilin]

So I've been reading up on nutrition for my 3 1/2 week old kittens.  The raw diet sounds interesting, but it seems so daunting at the start.  Should I start with the high end wet foods first for weaning, then introduce raw?  Or start raw from the weaning stage?

I have to find a good meat grinder.  Is there anyway to use a food processor instead to begin with?  Plus the recipe I saw on Dr. Pierson's site seems easy, but do I really have to add the supplemental stuff?

That said, how small should the pieces be? 

I don't know yet if I will do raw...i really want to try, but it just seems daunting making sure each serving contains the right amount of meat combinations, plus of course adding supplemental vitamins. Someone tell me where I should start.

It is very daunting! What's nice for a kitten who knows nothing of commercial cat food, is that you could certainly switch them straight to raw if you wanted to. It's not as though you have "kibble addiction" to think about.

Yes, you do have to add the supplements. Honestly, I find the whole process of home-making too nerve racking. I can barely cook for myself. I've literally turned fudge into cement. Trying to make a balanced diet for a completely different species makes me entirely too anxious. Also, I'm short on time as a single adult. I'd rather spend those precious hours cuddling Pia than in the kitchen.

So, for me, commercial raw is where I landed, and I think it's where I'm going to stay. It's surprisingly affordable, I already know it's a balanced diet just as it is, I know the grind is fine enough, and personally, batch testing and HPP makes me more comfortable as well, which is not something I could do with a home-made raw diet. Plus, Pia really likes it. I was lucky -- despite switching her at 1 1/2, she didn't require any transition period.

I personally don't see a truly compelling reason for me to switch to home-making. Everything is a trade-off. I could have more control over content, less control over quality, save money long term, save money short term... there's no single perfect answer. But going the commercial raw route is the one that makes the most sense in my life.

And perhaps, it's a good place for you to start, if you want to do raw, but home making seems overwhelming at this point. I feed Nature's Variety and Primal, but there's lots of good options around. You may decide at some point that going home-made is something you want to try.

 

[pawpurrints]

Thanks guys! I think I will start with commercial until i get a handle on it. In fact I found a specialty pet food store just 5 miles from me!! They sell that Radcat food! Going to check them out next week. I'm lucky to be in an area where people havw many options for their pets.

 

[ldg]

I started with commercial raw. :nod:

Another excellent option, depending on where you live, are the whole animal ground foods from Hare Today. They provide a really wide variety of proteins.

I feed my kitties mostly PMR, but I didn't plan to. The only commercial food I had originally was Nature's Variety. It's a little bone heavy at 15%, and some of my cats got constipated on it (too much bone = constipation). Members here suggested I "thin it out" with some meals of plain meat - and some of my boys decided they preferred that to ground. They'll eat some - but not at every meal.

Many use just these, and mix in the Alnutrin supplement for meat/bones.

So now I feed four meals of ground whole animal weekly. I use rabbit, llama, and goat. For me, shipping from Hare Today adds about $1 a pound to the cost.

http://www.hare-today.com

Don't forget - you can always feed up to 15% of the diet unsupplemented. So if you'll be feeding 4 meals a day until they're older, that works out to the equivalent of about 4 meals a week. You can try giving them plain meat, or gizzards to chew, or the smaller bones of chicken wings to try, see if they like crunching bones (when they're a little older! ).

 

[pawpurrints]

So when I start weaning, shouldn't I avoid bone altogether until they have all their teeth?  Of course I already see/feel canines and incisors.  Should I just cut up teeny tiny pieces of raw chicken and see if they'll eat it?  I figure they'll keep getting calcium from the milk for a while anyway, right? 

 

[pinkman]

You can definitely try smaller minced up chicken to start with.

Commercial raw usually has bone grounded in. If you do want to introduce them to bones, you can use wing tips and mash them with a hammer.

I do both home-made, commercial. Although I would love to do full-time prey model (and I can, if I wanted to now) I do like commercial and ground foods because I can sneak in supplements easier. 

 

[pawpurrints]

So should I start off and get a nice piece of chicken thigh, wash, and feed a small bit at a time?  Even with just their incisors, they should be fine then?  

 

[ldg]

A friend that feeds raw has a rescue: http://www.forgottenferalcatrescue.com/

If you're on FB, she has pictures of her weaning rescue kittens sucking on and chewing on a chicken breast: https://www.facebook.com/forgottenferals

Obviously it requires more than just meat to make meals properly balanced. And I wouldn't expect a weaning kitten to be able to crunch bone, so I wouldn't count on normal PMR bone-in meals to provide the calcium they need. But as pinkman says, once they are eating solid food, you can take a wing tip and smash it up (leave it in the meat and skin).

My feral cats, when they catch mice, don't actually "chew" them. They take the whole mouse in their mouths, chomp on it a bit to crush up the bones, I guess, then swallow it whole. Your smashing the bone would be the equivalent. And having to chew and chomp this young will certainly create the jaw strength they need to properly chew and chomp.

Moms caring for feral kittens don't pre-chew the food for them, they just deliver the hunt.

 

[pawpurrints]

I'm on FB....couldn't find the video unfortunately.  Funny how easy it is to humanize pets as if they were like our helpless babies LOL

 

[ldg]

Yeah, it's not a video. It's just pictures. We just moved and I have limited access to the internet now, and FB won't load. But you'd just have to scroll through the photos section of the page.

 

[ritz]

Natures Variety also sends out coupons if you sign up on their web site.  Sometimes they'll send a coupon for a free trial size bag of their raw food.

It is a little high in bone and has vegies, but as LDG pointed out, you can thin it out by adding protein/meat.  Doesn't have to be the same protein, you can mix, for example, beef and chicken.

Have fun!

 

[ldg]

Oh good call on looking for a video! Found one of the kitty I was thinking about.

[VIDEO][/VIDEO]

In the "about" it says Mason Dozer Kitty was 24 days old, weighed 9 ounces for this, his first intro to raw - which was also his first intro to solid food.

OK - he's not really eating it here. :lol3: But he sure looks happy sucking on it. :heart2:

 

[pawpurrints]

Awwww!  lol  He's sucking out the juices  

 

[lilin]

So when I start weaning, shouldn't I avoid bone altogether until they have all their teeth?  Of course I already see/feel canines and incisors.  Should I just cut up teeny tiny pieces of raw chicken and see if they'll eat it?  I figure they'll keep getting calcium from the milk for a while anyway, right? 

Not if you're starting with commercial raw. The bone is ground in very finely. It passes through their system just fine (you may notice their feces are light in color -- that's partly from the leftover components of bone passing through).

As someone else mentioned, if the meat is less than 15% of their diet and they're still primarily relying on their mama's milk, then you don't need to worry much about balance. But once you go over that amount, it needs to be balanced food.

 

[stealthkitty]

Hi PawPurrints!

It looks like your original question has been answered, but maybe my experience will be helpful to you too.

In February we brought home two kittens that were only 7 or 8 weeks old. They had started eating solid foods but were still nursing when we had to take them (long story there). For about a week, we gave them canned food since I wasn't prepared to start making raw even though I had been learning about it for some time. But as soon as we could we dove right in with prey model raw (I don't have a grinder either), and they took to it from the very start! Because they were so little we made sure to chop their meals, especially the chicken wings, into manageable pieces; but they handled it very well and we soon started giving them bigger chunks.

I think your decision to start with commercial raw is a good one. It'll be healthy for them and give you some time to figure out your next steps. View media item 148439

 

[pawpurrints]

They're chowin' down  LOL  My kittens are half the age of yours there, but they do love to chew on things!

This will be one of those experiences I'll just have to dive right in.  When I first started with my saltwater tank, I was quite overwhelmed.  But 5 years worth of experience has  made the hobby easy to be in.  I tend to overthink things sometimes, and be overly cautious.  So I want to make sure I do this raw diet correctly.

 

[pawpurrints]

Just picked up some chicken thighs from the store.  Going to chop a couple of teeny tiny pieces and just see if they'll take it.

 

[pawpurrints]

Got one to gobble up the chicken and even got him to lick some milk off the plate.  Eventually, his twin followed suit and discovered the yummy world of solids.  The girl wasn't convinced, until I got her to nibble on the last piece.  She ate it up

Question is, until they're weaned off the bottle, what is the chicken-to-milk ratio I should be following?  Blue ate so much chicken that he only drank a little milk.

Here's a video of Blue eating:

http://s722.photobucket.com/user/wontonflip/media/kittehs/kittehs-eating_zps0e703dc1.mp4.html

 

[ldg]

Aw look at him go! :lol3: They are SO adorable!

I have NO idea about the chicken/milk ratio.

I'm also wondering about immune system development, not being weaned on mother's milk. I wonder if a colostrum supplement might be a good idea? :dk:

What I'd probably do in the situation is use eggshell powder to balance the chicken (or whatever protein) I give them. It doesn't take much: just 1/32 teaspoon per ounce. I know they're not eating ounces yet, but even 1/4 ounce would be easy to balance if you get these little measuring spoons:
The 2nd smallest is the "smidgeon" - that is 1/32 teaspoon
The smalles is the "drop" - that is 1/64 teaspoon

So half a "drop" of eggshell powder would balance a meat meal that was just 1/4 ounce. :nod:

This is the eggshell powder I use: http://www.knowwhatyoufeed.com/shop_online.html It's the last item when you scroll down. Of course, if you eat eggs, it's really easy to make your own. One large egg makes about 1 teaspoon of powder; and they'll probably be eating bone soon, so even though it's not expensive, that pouch of eggshell powder from knowwhatyoufeed.com would probably be WAAAAAY more than you'd need.

Basically, just dry the eggshells, then powder them! You can bake them at 300 (a low heat) for half an hour if you want to speed up the drying process. Don't remove the membrane - it's got stuff that's good for the joints in it. :nod:

Actually, there is a recipe for homemade bone meal! http://holisticat.com/esp.html It's not overly helpful on how much to use, but using some, perhaps based on an average of the commercial bone meal amounts? would be better than no calcium for your growing kitties....