When is chasing going too far with resident cat and new kitten?

jumperdog

TCS Member
Thread starter
Kitten
Joined
Jan 3, 2021
Messages
9
Purraise
8
Hi - I appreciate questions about introducing resident cats and kittens are asked a LOT in these forums, so I hope another can be forgiven. I have read whatever I could find on the forum and just had a clarifying questions around behaviour in my resident cat around the new kitten we have brought home.

Resident cat (Ghillie Dhu) is 18 months, male, and neutered. He's a sweet cat who is hugely playful and loves nothing better than chasing his toys/us around. New kitten (Arwen) is 3 months old, brought home one week ago, obviously not spayed yet.

We decided to follow the Jackson Galaxy method for introductions. She was very fearful when she first arrived, but around 3 days in was totally settled in her base camp, having lots of cuddles in bed, and eager to leave the bedroom. We have let her explore the whole house while resident cat is shut away, and similarly he has spent time in her base camp while she's not there. Initially he hated it and would not go near the room. Eventually he was able to freely enter her room without any hissing and seemed very curious.

We were not able to get him to eat his main meal in front of the door - he is very very sensitive to changes in his dietary routine, and would not think about going near his bowl when it was not in it's usual spot, even if it was moved only a few feet away and out of sight of the bedroom. Instead, we were able to get him to eat his favourite treats outside her door, after a few days of trying. After about 6 days, he was eating his treats without complaint outside her door, and would meow to come in. She similarly would meow and scratch at the door as soon as she heard him outside.

We decided to let them see each other. They have since had several short supervised play sessions, in which the same thing always happens. They are cautious, begin gently following each other, then begin chasing. Then resident cat seems to get more and more enthusiastic. He chases her relentlessly because she is constantly running, and that seems to trigger his response to catch her. He seems to get less gentle. She hisses a bit, but there's still no growling or blood drawn. I worry because she is so much smaller than him that he could really hurt her without meaning too. But I also worry by breaking them up every time this happens, I am not allowing them to 'work it out' between them. Similarly I am not sure what it should look like when they are getting along well, when I should stop intervening. Any advice would be very appreciatively received.
 

sivyaleah

TCS Member
Veteran
Joined
Dec 16, 2011
Messages
6,264
Purraise
5,229
Location
New Jersey
Hello and welcome!

This sound fairly good to me. You're taking it slow, and keeping an eye on their interactions. Not unusual at all for there to be some hissing at this stage. I wouldn't worry too much about breaking it up if they aren't being aggressive with each other. Adults and kittens need to learn how to play and live with each other and each interaction is a further step to that happening.

I always kept a very close watch over my older and younger one for the first weeks until I was confident they were more or less ok with each other. I also put the kitten into her safe room at night to give the resident time alone with us and her territory for those first weeks.

No need to intervene unless the adult becomes angered; swatting, growling, yowling, claws extended etc. Usually all you need to clap your hands loudly, give a loud "HEY HEY!" and both will run off (or mine did at least) or gently remove one of them if able to. They are only doing what cats do.

Kittens will try the patience of adult cats, that's for certain, and once the older one has had enough he will let the kitten know. Most adult cats will not harm kittens, I believe it's hard wired into them not that it can't happen hence why keeping an eye on them is still important at this stage

I would make sure I have enough high places for the older cat to retreat to since the kitten won't be able to get that high up yet (most likely).

BTW, our older one would not eat at the door either, she's the same about only eating in the kitchen. It didn't hinder the introductions.
 

ArtNJ

TCS Member
Top Cat
Joined
Jun 1, 2017
Messages
5,499
Purraise
6,980
Doesn't sound too bad at all. Half the time when the adult is 9-18 months folks are afraid the kitten is going to die it looks so over the top rough, but the kittnes never get hurt. When the kittens squeal and run/hide that means they are feeling discomfort on the level of a head noogie and are temporarily done. They come back within 5 minutes, act like nothing happened and sometimes even initiate play themselves. That is the kitten telling you all is well.

You have the right approach. Distract when the kitten is especially miserable, but mostly let them do their thing. If the kitten is coming back after rough play and acting like nothing happened, all is well and they will grow into a more equal friendship.
 
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #4

jumperdog

TCS Member
Thread starter
Kitten
Joined
Jan 3, 2021
Messages
9
Purraise
8
Thanks both, that is reassuring. Its quite scary/stressful doing it for the first time! My concern is that it'll get to a place where she just retreats repeatedly while he pursues her, and won't let her rest. We did another play session today and it just went on for about two hours, where he refuses to allow her to walk away and backs her into a corner until she just hides somewhere he can't get her. I can't manage to distract him with food or toys, he's dead set on her. In the end I separated them just so she could use her litter tray uninterrupted. Should I just allow him to do this? Am I helicoptering?
 

sivyaleah

TCS Member
Veteran
Joined
Dec 16, 2011
Messages
6,264
Purraise
5,229
Location
New Jersey
Do you have enough high places for your resident cat to jump up on to get away from the kitten? This is really important. That way she can hang out, watch him below and not be bothered. We have several landing areas in our main living area; a mid-sized cat tree, 2 window beds (attached to the wall since our older one is a bit of a pudge and we wanted it as stable as possible), a couple of comfy pet beds on top of our radiator under a large window, and furniture in general. When Luna was a kitten, even being a larger breed type (Maine Coon) she certainly wasn't able to reach any of those spaces yet and it gave Cocoa a place to run off to but keep a close eye on her.

What kind of toys are you using? I'd suggest some wand type that "fly" such as Da Bird. I don't know a single cat that won't turn their attention to it. Not sure if treats are the best to use in this instance because at least to me it seems like negative reinforcement: Kitten chases big cat, kitten gets treats for chasing big cat. We always use treats to reward good behavior or at times when she's calm.

Separating is fine if you feel the older one has had enough - but I'd be removing the kitten and putting her into another room not the other way around. Keep in mind kittens truly are non-stop energy machines. I had NO idea just how much time they spent actively being awake and playing until this past year. I had almost no idea when Luna slept although she'd crash hard at night in bed with us.

It was a big learning curve for me!
 

maggie101

3 cats
Top Cat
Joined
Apr 20, 2014
Messages
7,957
Purraise
10,016
Location
Houston,TX
I have a similar problem. One of my cats Coco does not hiss or growl when my cat Maggie chases her she is very afraid of her does not hiss or growl at all but she has places to jump high mostly so she can watch Maggie make sure she doesn't get close. The 3-month cat is able to jump high it only needs to be a little bit higher than the cat chasing her. Maggie is bigger but as soon as Coco jumps above her Maggie walks away. No different if Maggie was the smallest. I have a 72inch tower,lots of furniture to jump on.
 

ArtNJ

TCS Member
Top Cat
Joined
Jun 1, 2017
Messages
5,499
Purraise
6,980
I think the problem is that you are still doing play sessions rather than allowing unlimited access. Limited access creates the "its Christmas Morning" effect, and little kitten never gets to see big cat chill. Allow unlimited access (or as a first step, at least access for as long as you can watch or listen in from the next room) and eventually the big cat will calm down and they will interact in other calmer ways, which will, in turn, give you more reassurance that its truly ok to let them be together full time. Right now, the kitten never gets that break, and only sees chasing big cat, so you are not seeing other types of interactions, such as the kitten being the one to initiate. Trying to be cautious actually makes things more difficult sometimes -- and you can be cautious just be watching/listening to make sure that nothing too crazy is happening. Since kittens never actually get hurt by adults, you don't need to be quite so worried about things and can give them more time to work things out.
 
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #8

jumperdog

TCS Member
Thread starter
Kitten
Joined
Jan 3, 2021
Messages
9
Purraise
8
Thank you again all.

Sorry I wasn't clear, it is the resident cat who is chasing, not the kitten. We remove her when it gets too much and put her back in her room. Resident has many perches which he claims proudly.

This is the issue for me, kitten stands little to no chance of seriously hurting big cat. Big cat is the one who won't leave her alone. He is himself still very young after all.

Assurances that we maybe just need to let him tire himself out are useful, I just worry about unnecessarily putting her through the trauma of being constantly chased.

I will do a few hours this evening and see how it goes!
 

susanm9006

Willow
Top Cat
Joined
Feb 20, 2011
Messages
13,249
Purraise
30,523
Location
Minnesota
Yes, you need to let them have time together so the novelty of having a kitten to play with wears off a little for the older one. It’s all play and he won’t hurt her but she doesn’t sound fully secure about that yet. I would give her some small spaces to hid in like a box with a kitten only size hole in it that she can tunnel into when big brother gets too rough.

what I expect will happen after they have a short while together is that she will freely join into the
game of chase and wrestle. She may Yelp, hiss or even scream about being pinned but will be having a good time nonetheless. If you aren’t familiar with cat play, watch some YouTube videos of play fighting so you are more comfortable with cats rough play.
 

maggie101

3 cats
Top Cat
Joined
Apr 20, 2014
Messages
7,957
Purraise
10,016
Location
Houston,TX
My cat Maggie,now 6 chases my small cat Peaches,7 at night. She wants to go to bed! I have tried the idea of wearing Maggie out with play but instead she gets more excited. So I no longer play with her at night. So far worked
 

danteshuman

TCS Member
Top Cat
Joined
Mar 27, 2017
Messages
5,034
Purraise
6,087
Location
California
Sounds like things are going well! Her hissing is telling him to stop (which he must learn to respect.)

I would get help if you can. Have 2 humans play with their designated cat, using a wand toy. Make the play super interesting. The goal is for the toy to be more interesting then the kitten. That way he can get over the ‘must chase the new kitten’ bit while they play in the same room together. It is ok to end the play early to end things on a good note.

I predict in a month or two the kitten will be chasing him around. Plus by 5 months the kitten will more closely match his size.
 
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #12

jumperdog

TCS Member
Thread starter
Kitten
Joined
Jan 3, 2021
Messages
9
Purraise
8
20210104_145414.jpg

Just wanted to follow up to thank everyone for their advice - as everyone assured me, in time (after about 5 hours straight of play!) they wore each other out and slept in the same room. They've since made great progress and have spent all day together much more calmly. Here is them this afternoon.
 
Top