So this is my 3 month old kitten miami, she is a tortoishell but she looks kinda odd
i will post a pic of the mother and father if anybody wants to take a look
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what kind of tortoiseshell is my kitten? (pics included)
- Thread starter catlover1990
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It's Tortie & White, but the white is interesting a way like you'd expect it to be some of the red-based color. makes me wonder if it was something unusual going on that some of the red pigment didn't work.
Also in the top photo, her dark color looks more brown! In the others it looks more black. which is it?
It does look like she has a light color undercoat. I can't tell if she has white roots on the outer coat hairs. which would make her a Black Smoke Tortie and White. Some of her looks kind of like that and some doesn't! Look at the hairs on the top of her head and part them, see if the roots are all white.
I had one other kinda wild idea of a Seal Sepia Tortie and White, based on the top photo that looks like the dark patches of her coat are more brown on the torso and black on the head & tail and feet.
But the photos of her lying on her back do not look like that! She looks darker underneath!
Has she been lying in the sun? It might be that she's a Tortie and White ( also called Black Tortie and White) but some of the black fur on her back is just sort of turned brownish because of the sun.
( and if the roots are white she is Black Smoke Tortie and White)
Also in the top photo, her dark color looks more brown! In the others it looks more black. which is it?
It does look like she has a light color undercoat. I can't tell if she has white roots on the outer coat hairs. which would make her a Black Smoke Tortie and White. Some of her looks kind of like that and some doesn't! Look at the hairs on the top of her head and part them, see if the roots are all white.
I had one other kinda wild idea of a Seal Sepia Tortie and White, based on the top photo that looks like the dark patches of her coat are more brown on the torso and black on the head & tail and feet.
But the photos of her lying on her back do not look like that! She looks darker underneath!
Has she been lying in the sun? It might be that she's a Tortie and White ( also called Black Tortie and White) but some of the black fur on her back is just sort of turned brownish because of the sun.
( and if the roots are white she is Black Smoke Tortie and White)
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- #4
The third photo is when she was only 2 months old
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- #5
No she never went outdoors, I realized that the older she gets the lighter her fur becomes except for her paws
It IS true that Smokes often start out black and then start getting the smoke color.
did you look to see if the fur is white at the roots?
did you look to see if the fur is white at the roots?
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- #7
mother bottom
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- #8
Yes her hair is starting from the roots
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- #9
Ues his hair is white at the roots
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The-father-is-red,even-tho-he-is-on-the-lighter-side,but-not-light-enough-to-be-called-cream.
Red-is-real-hard-to-break,it-dominates-most-colors.
The-mother-is-a-blue-torti.Gray-is-called-blue.
The-kitten-is-a-black-torti.I-am-thinking-the-light-on-her-tummy,kinda-hard-to-tell-from-the-pics,might-be-the-light-shade-of-her-father.
There-is-black-in-the-background-somewhere,most-likely-on-the-mothers-side,hence-the-other-kitten-who-is-black,and-the-kitten-being-a-black-torti.
My-boys-are-red,their-mother-is-red,red-is-real-hard-to-break,their-father-was-blue.They-had-one-sister,a-blue-torti.
Red-is-real-hard-to-break,it-dominates-most-colors.
The-mother-is-a-blue-torti.Gray-is-called-blue.
The-kitten-is-a-black-torti.I-am-thinking-the-light-on-her-tummy,kinda-hard-to-tell-from-the-pics,might-be-the-light-shade-of-her-father.
There-is-black-in-the-background-somewhere,most-likely-on-the-mothers-side,hence-the-other-kitten-who-is-black,and-the-kitten-being-a-black-torti.
My-boys-are-red,their-mother-is-red,red-is-real-hard-to-break,their-father-was-blue.They-had-one-sister,a-blue-torti.
I am now thinking she is a Black Tortie with an "unsound coat". so the color is sort of uneven. But maybe it' s still developing since she's a kitten
I agree with Flint that the dad is a Red Tabby, Mom is Blue Tortie and White.
and in this last photo, the kitten does look like a normal Black Tortie. If she does have just a tiny bit of white and it's just on her belly , that may not be enough to make her be classified as "Black Tortie and White" .
Re Smoke: Neither of the parents appear to be a Smoke or Silver and one parent would have to be in order for the kitten to be a Black Smoke Tortie.
Smoke can sometimes be hard to see without parting the coat. but usually in a longhair double coated adult cat like these parents, one would see that white undercoat without much trouble!
It could be that maybe what you're seeing at the roots is just due to what's called an "unsound coat" and is not actually white at the roots but just paler.
A cat with an unsound coat, may have some places with paler color at the roots and it might vary on different parts of the body.
A Smoke would have a white undercoat, and would have WHITE at the roots everywhere, even on places with shorter fur like the feet and head. And one of these parents would have to be the same.
Re the other (admittedly unlikely) idea I got from the first photo, about Sepia: Now I see her parents look like Persians ( maybe growing out of a lion cut?) and I think it would be pretty uncommon for Persians to have that gene. These parents sure don't show it, and although it's true Sepia can be carried hidden, it is just not likely they would have that. She really doesnt look it herself in most the photos.
@ Flint I am not sure what you mean about that light color on her tummy coming from the dad, Do you mean you think that the patches that (at least to me) look white in the 2nd photo were actually supposed to be some of the red inherited from the father, but for some reason the pigment did not come out red just in those parts? That is what I was saying at the beginning of my first post on this thread .
What is more important than color is of course health. There are some health risks in the Persian breed so I hope whoever bred the cats was aware of those things and has done health testing ( not just a vet check-up) to avoid some health problem like Polycystic Kidney Disease.
I agree with Flint that the dad is a Red Tabby, Mom is Blue Tortie and White.
and in this last photo, the kitten does look like a normal Black Tortie. If she does have just a tiny bit of white and it's just on her belly , that may not be enough to make her be classified as "Black Tortie and White" .
Re Smoke: Neither of the parents appear to be a Smoke or Silver and one parent would have to be in order for the kitten to be a Black Smoke Tortie.
Smoke can sometimes be hard to see without parting the coat. but usually in a longhair double coated adult cat like these parents, one would see that white undercoat without much trouble!
It could be that maybe what you're seeing at the roots is just due to what's called an "unsound coat" and is not actually white at the roots but just paler.
A cat with an unsound coat, may have some places with paler color at the roots and it might vary on different parts of the body.
A Smoke would have a white undercoat, and would have WHITE at the roots everywhere, even on places with shorter fur like the feet and head. And one of these parents would have to be the same.
Re the other (admittedly unlikely) idea I got from the first photo, about Sepia: Now I see her parents look like Persians ( maybe growing out of a lion cut?) and I think it would be pretty uncommon for Persians to have that gene. These parents sure don't show it, and although it's true Sepia can be carried hidden, it is just not likely they would have that. She really doesnt look it herself in most the photos.
@ Flint I am not sure what you mean about that light color on her tummy coming from the dad, Do you mean you think that the patches that (at least to me) look white in the 2nd photo were actually supposed to be some of the red inherited from the father, but for some reason the pigment did not come out red just in those parts? That is what I was saying at the beginning of my first post on this thread .
What is more important than color is of course health. There are some health risks in the Persian breed so I hope whoever bred the cats was aware of those things and has done health testing ( not just a vet check-up) to avoid some health problem like Polycystic Kidney Disease.
Hi-maewkaew!
I-was-looking-at-the-kittens-picture-in-the-first-post,the-one-with-her-laying-on-her-back,and-her-little-arms-over-her-head,LOL.
Being-that-the-mother-is-a-blue-tortie,one-of-her-parent-is-most-likely-red,and-one-parent-most-likely-blue,and-somewhere-in-that-background,is-a-black.Black-is-also-dominate,but-red-is-stronger,its-real-hard-to-break,so-when-a-blue-torti-mated-with-an-all-red-cat,the-kitten-came-out-a-black-torti,and-to-me,LOL,the-streaks,per-say,on-her-tummy,look-like-a-light-shade-of-red.They-didn't-look-white,to-me,LOL,not-like-the-white-on-the-mother.The-red-part-of-a-black-torti,can-come-in-different-shades-of-red.
There-really-is-not-enough-white-on-the-mother,for-it-to-transfer-to-the-kittens,altho-its-not-impossible,LOL.
One-of-my-red-boys,looks-like-his-momma-to-a-T,red-with-white-paws-and-white-chest,the-other-kittens-came-out-solid-red,and-the-one-sister,was-a-blue-torti.
Father-was-blue,mother-was-red.
There-is-another-kitten-in-one-of-the-pictures,looks-all-black,hence,the-black-in-the-background-somewhere,has-to-be-the-mothers-side,as-red-is-real-hard-to-break.I-have-a-torti-chart-somewhere,LOL,will-have-to-look-for-it.
Either-way,the-kitten-is-real-cute,and-real-pretty.I-had-a-LH-black-torti,some-years-ago,never-showed-her,she-was-a-real-scardy-girl,would-not-have-taken-to-be-shown.
I-was-looking-at-the-kittens-picture-in-the-first-post,the-one-with-her-laying-on-her-back,and-her-little-arms-over-her-head,LOL.
Being-that-the-mother-is-a-blue-tortie,one-of-her-parent-is-most-likely-red,and-one-parent-most-likely-blue,and-somewhere-in-that-background,is-a-black.Black-is-also-dominate,but-red-is-stronger,its-real-hard-to-break,so-when-a-blue-torti-mated-with-an-all-red-cat,the-kitten-came-out-a-black-torti,and-to-me,LOL,the-streaks,per-say,on-her-tummy,look-like-a-light-shade-of-red.They-didn't-look-white,to-me,LOL,not-like-the-white-on-the-mother.The-red-part-of-a-black-torti,can-come-in-different-shades-of-red.
There-really-is-not-enough-white-on-the-mother,for-it-to-transfer-to-the-kittens,altho-its-not-impossible,LOL.
One-of-my-red-boys,looks-like-his-momma-to-a-T,red-with-white-paws-and-white-chest,the-other-kittens-came-out-solid-red,and-the-one-sister,was-a-blue-torti.
Father-was-blue,mother-was-red.
There-is-another-kitten-in-one-of-the-pictures,looks-all-black,hence,the-black-in-the-background-somewhere,has-to-be-the-mothers-side,as-red-is-real-hard-to-break.I-have-a-torti-chart-somewhere,LOL,will-have-to-look-for-it.
Either-way,the-kitten-is-real-cute,and-real-pretty.I-had-a-LH-black-torti,some-years-ago,never-showed-her,she-was-a-real-scardy-girl,would-not-have-taken-to-be-shown.
Flint, I think that Blue Tortie & White mom could easily give some white patches to a kitten. It's not like a cat with just a teeny tiny locket, where the cat may not even have the gene for White Spotting. The mom has enough white that I would guess she is S/s ( has one copy of white spotting) so she could either give White Spotting or " no white spotting" to a kitten. But then the way it is expressed is hard to predict.
So it may be that white on the tummy ( seen in that adorable picture) is from the White Spotting Factor .
But I agree it seemed like it had a different look. and just the way it was arranged reminded me more of how the red-based color can be in a tortie. I had seen pictures on the messybeast site of a cat that was genetically a tortie but the red parts came out white!
Sex-linked Red is one of the more interesting things in cat genetics, being on the X chromosome.
I can see why you would describe it as " hard to break" because a red female always has kittens with red on them.
So it may be that white on the tummy ( seen in that adorable picture) is from the White Spotting Factor .
But I agree it seemed like it had a different look. and just the way it was arranged reminded me more of how the red-based color can be in a tortie. I had seen pictures on the messybeast site of a cat that was genetically a tortie but the red parts came out white!
Sex-linked Red is one of the more interesting things in cat genetics, being on the X chromosome.
I can see why you would describe it as " hard to break" because a red female always has kittens with red on them.
Hi-maewkaew!
I-was-looking-at-the-kittens-picture-in-the-first-post,the-one-with-her-laying-on-her-back,and-her-little-arms-over-her-head,LOL.
Being-that-the-mother-is-a-blue-tortie,one-of-her-parent-is-most-likely-red,and-one-parent-most-likely-blue,and-somewhere-in-that-background,is-a-black.Black-is-also-dominate,but-red-is-stronger,its-real-hard-to-break,so-when-a-blue-torti-mated-with-an-all-red-cat,the-kitten-came-out-a-black-torti,and-to-me,LOL,the-streaks,per-say,on-her-tummy,look-like-a-light-shade-of-red.They-didn't-look-white,to-me,LOL,not-like-the-white-on-the-mother.The-red-part-of-a-black-torti,can-come-in-different-shades-of-red.
There-really-is-not-enough-white-on-the-mother,for-it-to-transfer-to-the-kittens,altho-its-not-impossible,LOL.
One-of-my-red-boys,looks-like-his-momma-to-a-T,red-with-white-paws-and-white-chest,the-other-kittens-came-out-solid-red,and-the-one-sister,was-a-blue-torti.
Father-was-blue,mother-was-red.
There-is-another-kitten-in-one-of-the-pictures,looks-all-black,hence,the-black-in-the-background-somewhere,has-to-be-the-mothers-side,as-red-is-real-hard-to-break.I-have-a-torti-chart-somewhere,LOL,will-have-to-look-for-it.
Either-way,the-kitten-is-real-cute,and-real-pretty.I-had-a-LH-black-torti,some-years-ago,never-showed-her,she-was-a-real-scardy-girl,would-not-have-taken-to-be-shown.
Ya-know-maewkaew......in-thinking-about-it,I-think-your-right,about-the-momma-kitty-and-the-white.So-maybe,what-looks-like-light-red-to-me,might-actually-be-the-white,wish-we-could-see-a-better/clearer-picture-of-her-tummy,LOL.
you-can-barely-see-his-white-locket.
you-can-barely-see-his-white-locket.
Found-some-cool-color-charts,which-better-explains-it-all.
http://fanciers.com/other-faqs/color-genetics.html
http://www.cfa.org/Breeders/CatColorsGenetics/BasicFelineGenetics.aspx
http://www.cfa.org/Breeders/CatColorsGenetics/BasicFelineGenetics.aspx
this-one-has-pictures
http://kids.cfa.org/understanding-cat-colors.pdf
http://fanciers.com/other-faqs/color-genetics.html
http://www.cfa.org/Breeders/CatColorsGenetics/BasicFelineGenetics.aspx
http://www.cfa.org/Breeders/CatColorsGenetics/BasicFelineGenetics.aspx
this-one-has-pictures
http://kids.cfa.org/understanding-cat-colors.pdf
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- #16
Here are clearer pictures of her tummy
thanks a lot flint and maewkaew, you've helped a lot
thanks a lot flint and maewkaew, you've helped a lot
All I have to offer is AAAWWwwww
thanks a lot flint and maewkaew, you've helped a lot
Her expression says 'tortitude' to me...
Thank-you-so-much,for-putting-up-her-pictures!She-is-very-pretty-and-such-a-cute-little-girl!Actuallly-she-is-very-well-behaved,to-put-up-with-all-the-picture-taking,LOL,I-just-love-the-last-picture,like....ma.....are-we-done-yet?LOL
I-don't-know-where-UAE-is,LOL,but......if-ya-ever-decide-you-don't-want-her,and-you-can-get-her-to-Texas.....she-would-have-red-kitties-to-play-with,LOL.
I-don't-know-where-UAE-is,LOL,but......if-ya-ever-decide-you-don't-want-her,and-you-can-get-her-to-Texas.....she-would-have-red-kitties-to-play-with,LOL.
UAE is the United Arab Emirates. It is in the gulf region of the middle east, next to saudi arabia.
I-don't-know-where-UAE-is,LOL,but......if-ya-ever-decide-you-don't-want-her,and-you-can-get-her-to-Texas.....she-would-have-red-kitties-to-play-with,LOL.
And besides, not wanting her would be an impossibility
I'd love to see pics as she grows....
