What kind of Siamese (mix?) is this cat?

[meezerfan]

Our kitten is several months old and not all grown up yet. I think he is clearly part Siamese, but is there something else? I have read that a purebred Siamese cat will not have white feet, but also saw a couple people on another cat forum say it is possible for a purebred Siamese to have white feet. Other search results say he's a snowshoe, but when I look up pictures of snowshoe Siamese cats, he doesn't really look like them. I love him no matter what he is, but I'm just really curious what his mixture might be. Anyone familiar with Siamese cats care to offer your thoughts on this cute kitty? Thank you!

 

[catloverfromwayback]

Could he be a Birman? Does their hair not get long for a few months? They have white feet like this.

 

[Kieka]

What you have is a domestic shorthair cat. Coloring is seal point with white.

While the colorpoint gene did originate with the Siamese breed, it has spread itself wide and far within the general cat population. The colorpoint gene is a recessive color gene that basically makes the cats fur similar to albino with a heat sensitive element. The parts where the cat is colder, their points, will get darker then their core. As they get older their fur tends to get darker towards their core with some older colorpoints being nearly solid. The colorpoint gene is also responsible for the blue eyes since the eyes basically lack pigment too. All it takes is for the mom and dad to be carriers (even if they themselves do not express the gene) and the kittens in the litter will have a 25% chance of being colorpoint.

Bottom line, while all Siamese are pointed, not all pointed are Siamese. Although all pointed will have siamese heritage somewhere the last true what we consider purebred siamese might be one or one hundred generations back. That your boy has white paws means he isn't siamese. Although there are some siamese derived breeds that have developed white patterning and or longer fur the true siamese breed don't have white paws. In order for a cat to be considered a named breed they must come from a registered breeder with documented lineage. Mostly because most recognized cat breeds today were historically recent developments and those are primarily refinements on naturally occurring patterns, colors, etc. Even the siamese breed was naturally occurring and humans selectively bred for a specific aspect of it.

I myself have two colorpoint cats. One was the known product of a tabby and a black and white tom from a multi generation feral colony. Not a siamese in sight there but at somepoint some colorpoint got in the mix so every few generations there would be a handle full of colorpoint pop up.

Not being siamese doesn't distract from their beauty or their grace. Not being siamese does mean if you get pet insurance you don't have to pay a premium for that beauty too.

 

[meezerfan]

Could he be a Birman? Does their hair not get long for a few months? They have white feet like this.

Hm, he kind of does look like a short-haired version of a Birman doesn't he? His colors look so similar. I don't foresee his coat getting any longer though, and looking at pics of Birman kitties, their fur is already long as young kittens. Interesting.

 

[meezerfan]

What you have is a domestic shorthair cat. Coloring is seal point with white.

While the colorpoint gene did originate with the Siamese breed, it has spread itself wide and far within the general cat population. The colorpoint gene is a recessive color gene that basically makes the cats fur similar to albino with a heat sensitive element. The parts where the cat is colder, their points, will get darker then their core. As they get older their fur tends to get darker towards their core with some older colorpoints being nearly solid. The colorpoint gene is also responsible for the blue eyes since the eyes basically lack pigment too. All it takes is for the mom and dad to be carriers (even if they themselves do not express the gene) and the kittens in the litter will have a 25% chance of being colorpoint.

Bottom line, while all Siamese are pointed, not all pointed are Siamese. Although all pointed will have siamese heritage somewhere the last true what we consider purebred siamese might be one or one hundred generations back. That your boy has white paws means he isn't siamese. Although there are some siamese derived breeds that have developed white patterning and or longer fur the true siamese breed don't have white paws. In order for a cat to be considered a named breed they must come from a registered breeder with documented lineage. Mostly because most recognized cat breeds today were historically recent developments and those are primarily refinements on naturally occurring patterns, colors, etc. Even the siamese breed was naturally occurring and humans selectively bred for a specific aspect of it.

I myself have two colorpoint cats. One was the known product of a tabby and a black and white tom from a multi generation feral colony. Not a siamese in sight there but at somepoint some colorpoint got in the mix so every few generations there would be a handle full of colorpoint pop up.

Not being siamese doesn't distract from their beauty or their grace. Not being siamese does mean if you get pet insurance you don't have to pay a premium for that beauty too.

Interesting! He acts very "Siamese" and is very, very chatty and wags his tail when he's happy. He's a special kitty.

 

[catloverfromwayback]

Interesting! He acts very "Siamese" and is very, very chatty and wags his tail when he's happy. He's a special kitty.

Sounds like he’s an adorable kitty, whatever his ancestry!

 

[Smarl]

Looks like a mitted pattern ragdolls have: white gloves, boots and chin. Birmans have similar, but for my understanding their chin is colored. So seal point mitted dsh is my guess. Very cute little fellow, and he's coloring is stunning!

 

[meezerfan]

Looks like a mitted pattern ragdolls have: white gloves, boots and chin. Birmans have similar, but for my understanding their chin is colored. So seal point mitted dsh is my guess. Very cute little fellow, and he's coloring is stunning!

Mitted ragdoll DSH is another one to consider. I don't know a whole lot about all the cat types and variations so everyone's input here has been helpful. His shorter coat is what's confusing to me but that could be from the DSH side I guess? And thank you--he is a pretty boy. I haven't found many pictures of other cats like him. I love him so much.

 

[Kieka]

Mitted means white paws on any breed. Ragdoll is a large long hair breed derived from siamese. Mitted ragdoll describes a ragdoll with white paws.

 

[Smarl]

Mitted is a general term yes, but birmans and ragdolls mitted pattern is caused by a special gene (compared to other mitted cats). That's why I pointed it out - it's possible that the kitten doesn't have any birman/ragdoll anchnestry, but pointed cat with mitted pattern may also be something that genetically related with those breeds.

 

[Kieka]

Mitted is a general term yes, but birmans and ragdolls mitted pattern is caused by a special gene (compared to other mitted cats). That's why I pointed it out - it's possible that the kitten doesn't have any birman/ragdoll anchnestry, but pointed cat with mitted pattern may also be something that genetically related with those breeds.

Burman breed originated from cats gifted to Europeans in 1919. Ragdoll originated from a breed program in Southern California in the 1980s. While some birman might have been in the southern california program, my understanding is that they started with some unknown mixes that later were refined. I have never heard of either breed being a different mitted gene then the general cat population and find it highly unlikely the ragdoll is since the ragdoll specifically comes from a very mixed bag of breeds. But it would be interesting to learn more so can you share what the difference is between the mitted gene in the general population and the mitted gene in those two breeds specifically?

As a side note, my boy the bigger of the two in the below photo looked very similar in mitting to the OPs cat. My boy has gotten darker over the years and his white became more obvious. My girl has more white to her and moreso gloves then mitts.

 

[Smarl]

I've read about it mostly in finnish, but for a quick googling I found this a blog post witch explains it a bit: Birman vs Ragdoll — The Little Carnivore

Some mitted ragdolls are actually just white spotted without the mitted gene, some have birman mitted gene. My understanding is that (at least in Europe) they used birmans to get variety in the gene pool.

 

[Kieka]

I've read about it mostly in finnish, but for a quick googling I found this a blog post witch explains it a bit: Birman vs Ragdoll — The Little Carnivore

Some mitted ragdolls are actually just white spotted without the mitted gene, some have birman mitted gene. My understanding is that (at least in Europe) they used birmans to get variety in the gene pool.

The article doesn't say that the mitted gene is exclusive to the Birman. It is saying that a Birman will have the mitted gene that makes white only appear on the paws in comparison with the Ragdoll which has the white spotting gene which could result in white in various patterning on their bodies. Since the variation of the white gene is slightly different, a genetic test can tell them apart. Which is true the white mitted gene is slightly different from white spotting and the specific spotting patterns will be slightly different. Which doesn't preclude that the mitted gene is specific to the Birman breed, just a defining factor between Birman and Ragdoll. Although, I'd argue with the original premise of the page in that a Birman and Ragdoll are distinct breeds and not too hard to tell apart if you actually look at true purebred cats. The real problem is doing google searches to identify breed because Google can be misleading. Although the article isn't really a scientific review, more so a persons written paper based on their observations and some breed documentation so it isn't hard to understand why they ended at the genetic testing being a way to tell them apart.

For example of Google misleading, Google Snowshoe Siamese and this is the Snowshoe manual that you can find with a picture of a snowshoe. Plus a book called the Snowshoe Cat which is actually a murder mystery series but Google will pull up the image as an example of a snowshoe:

Here is my girl who is NOT a snowshoe but rather a snowshoe lookalike from many generations of feral cats. And I do have a photo somewhere that is almost exactly like the book cover but I can't find it right now. TBH, the first time I ran across either photo I did a double take and really looked at them to make sure someone hadn't stolen one of my photos of Rocket:

Which is just to show, that you can't judge cat breed by photo. And I do 100% know my girl is not a snowshoe, I saw her from the first time she wobbled out of her nest with her littermates in the feral colony and I had seen her family over several years before she was born. Just random litters of mostly colorpoint from time to time. I am in an area that does have a fairly widespread colorpoint gene in the general cat population so it happens every few years that there is a sudden increase in colorpoints in the feral population.

Back on topic, the OP cat has a white mustache, so it isn't specifically the mitted only gene but a variation of white spotting that we are seeing. I'd say the OP cat has a white bib too but its hard to tell at the 9ish month age that I am guessing they are. Colorpoints can be a little misleading on what is white and what is just undeveloped when they are under about 2 years old. This was my boy at around the same age I am guessing and his white bib wasn't nearly as obvious either (and this is the same cat that was the larger one in the photo I posted earlier, colorpoints get darker with age he was 7 in the photo I posted before and about 8-10 months in these photos).

:

 

[Smarl]

All birmans have the special birman mitted gene, I'm fairly sure that's something I've read from their breed association. I can_try_ to find a real research paper about this, when I have time. And yes, googling is not a best way to look information of the breed of cats, and if you check my post carefully, you might notice that I try to find some information in English - Google translator doesn't work too well with our language.

Also, I didn't mention that op:s cat looks like a ragdoll - I just said that the mitted pattern is similar (and to me it looks he has mitted w/ white chin, not moustach, but of course it's hard to say in picture) and typical for ragdolls (which also might have the birman mitted gene). I'm quite familiar with characteristics and coloring of ragdolls, and for sure purebred cats have their papers and are not defined by Google. And like I said in my orginal post, op:s cat is mitted seal point DSH. He might or might not have birman mitted gene, only test will tell that. I guess it's fun to try to find similarities, and coloring of cats is very interesting!

But this is interesting conversation, and I lot of info for op for sure.

 

[meezerfan]

This was my boy at around the same age I am guessing and his white bib wasn't nearly as obvious either (and this is the same cat that was the larger one in the photo I posted earlier, colorpoints get darker with age he was 7 in the photo I posted before and about 8-10 months in these photos).

Wow! He got so much darker, that's crazy. I wonder if this cat will turn out similarly. He is starting to get slightly darker I've noticed, especially on his body. I'm super curious now to see how much/if he will continue to change colors. He's about 6-7 months old, by the way.

 

[Kieka]

Wow! He got so much darker, that's crazy. I wonder if this cat will turn out similarly. He is starting to get slightly darker I've noticed, especially on his body. I'm super curious now to see how much/if he will continue to change colors. He's about 6-7 months old, by the way.

Take lots of photos. It's fun to look back and see how much their coats change.

 

[LunarFlower]

Yep! My pointed kitties are still getting darker at 10 months old! They continue to darken throughout their lifetime, but especially the first year and later in life.

 

[Meowmee]

Our kitten is several months old and not all grown up yet. I think he is clearly part Siamese, but is there something else? I have read that a purebred Siamese cat will not have white feet, but also saw a couple people on another cat forum say it is possible for a purebred Siamese to have white feet. Other search results say he's a snowshoe, but when I look up pictures of snowshoe Siamese cats, he doesn't really look like them. I love him no matter what he is, but I'm just really curious what his mixture might be. Anyone familiar with Siamese cats care to offer your thoughts on this cute kitty? Thank you!View attachment 443417View attachment 443418View attachment 443419

He looks like a traditional siamese snow shoe type. But would be called a dsh colorpoint seal point with white. Snow shoes have white paws and a different with white mask shape on their faces etc. they were originally bred from siamese cats who were born with white spotting who did not fit the 4 point patterns but who were also gorgeous kitties. So yes he has as do all colorpoints some siamese somewhere down the line.

 

[Alldara]

Interesting! He acts very "Siamese" and is very, very chatty and wags his tail when he's happy. He's a special kitty.

Even with a small percentage of Asian cat heritage, you can end up with some really Siamese traits!

 

[meezerfan]

Update: What he's looking like now

What do you guys think about his BFF?