What food should I try, please?

[Freedom]

I have 4 cats, ages 17-years, 2 18- years, and 1 19-years old. None of them have many teeth left. They have all seen the vet in the last 8 months. The 19 year old and 1 18 year old - Bobby - have had senior blood work done, plus urinalysis and fecal test, all normal.

About 3 years back I had another cat who developed renal disease. Referring to Tanya's List of foods, I switched to Hill's Science Diet age 11+ indoor for kibble, and Wellness chicken and chicken liver pouch for wet. These were the closest to prescription foods without needing a prescription. That cat has since crossed to Rainbow Bridge.

The problem is all these cats have runny stools. Bobby seldom bothers going to the litter box. I have watched him walk across the kitchen, stop, barely squat, squirt out, stand and continue walking. 3 of the cats have been losing weight, slowly and steadily. One cat has gained a lot of weight since the food change 3 years back.

I tried 3 different sensitive stomach kibbles, mixing in very little - about 1/4 cup with 2 cups of regular kibble. That just made things worse, I had cats squirting all over the place. After 2 weeks with no change, I stopped one, waited a month, tried another. Same resultss. Stopped using all of that.

Six days ago Bobby hopped up on the counter when I was prepping the dog dishes, and very interested in what I had. In desperation, I gave the cats a can of dog food: Applaws chicken with vegetables in broth. They ate it ALL, even the vegetables. I didn't mix the Applaws dog food with anything, wasn't sure they would do more than lick at it. But after that first day, when I found empty, clean bowls in 2 hours, I couldn't believe it! So I kept on. Did that once a day for 6 days and the squirts have stopped. The diarhhea has stopped. Starting to see 'tootsie rolls' in the litter boxes again. The kibble is still out around the clock, they are eating very little of that. I know long term they need cat food, not dog food, for proper nutrition including taurine for their eyes.

I just don't know what this tells me, what wet food to try from Tanya's lists. How far down the list can I go to try something. I need to get them back on cat wet food, but which one(s)? I generally purchase from PetsMart, Chewy and Amazon, which narrows down the list of possibilities to what is available to me.

Suggestions, thoughts, ideas? Thank you. Photo is from last December.

 

[GranolaLouise]

Have you tried Purina Forti Flora on top of the wet food that they would eat before? A few days using that stopped diarrhea for my ckd cat. There is something about the smell of that that attracts the cat to the food as well.
I have no suggestions for ckd cats except for prescription suggestions, but you have many mouths to feed and it can break the bank!
Are they outdoor? Are the dogs outdoor? Could they have contracted worms? Could it be something they are spreading around to each other? It is strange that they ALL have that condition.
If it were me I would have another blood workup/fecal on at least 1 or 2 of them.
If you are close to Angell Memorial in Waltham off 95 or Boston off the Fenway they take time in one visit with an internal specialist to work things out. I did that for just a little bit more than my local vet and I am glad I went and they then worked in tandem with my local vet.
It is not fair to the cats to let them waste away like that for so long. Please see another vet. Something is definitely wrong and feeding them dog food or playing roulette from Tanya's list is not a fix in an urgent situation.

 

[FeebysOwner]

The dog food that you mention looks to be just a food topper rather than a complete food for dogs. So, I wonder if you could look at adding a cat supplement, like Alnutrin, to the dog food to make it complete for a cat? The other thing to consider is that something in the cat foods you have tried is the culprit, perhaps a filler or gum, since there are no such items in that dog food topper. If you can, make a list of the cat foods you have tried and see if there are any common fillers/gums in them. If so, then look for cat food that doesn't contain those ingredients. You could consider giving them s. boulardii as a probiotic, which is often used with cats that are prone to diarrhea/loose stools.

Why are you using Tanya's web site for a list of foods if, at least 2 of these cats have normal blood work and are not showing any indication of kidney disease? Is this as a precaution because of your cat that did have it? Although, it isn't necessarily a bad thing to lower their phosphorus intake somewhat, it isn't going to prevent any of them from kidney disease. You probably ought to get blood work done on the other two, given their ages. This is a good first step if these 2 are losing weight also.

I agree that it is odd that all 4 cats have loose stools on cat food, and all do well with the dog food topper. Are these cats related by chance? Is it possible that the dry food you leave out for them is the problem, since they are now eating less of it?

Indirectly related to what was mentioned above - have there been any other changes in the environment that might coincide with the start and stop of the loose stool issue? If you can find anything along those lines, it may not be the cat food at all. Something that would seem more likely to prompt all of them to have the same problem - chemically treated soil, for just one example.

 

[Freedom]

GranolaLouise :
Cats are indoor only. Dogs do go out in the back yard, and on walks. I thought of worms which is why I had the fecal done on 2, but nothing shows up. I was using the food from Tanya's website for the other cat who DID have renal disease. With so many, just easier to have them all on the same food, and since I was not using a prescription food, it was fine financially. Over the years I have had 2 other cats develop renal disease, neither of them would eat the prescription food, so I was not interested in going that route again.

FeebysOwner yes I was using this food due to the one cat who has now died, who had renal disease. At the time, I had 8 cats and 5 dogs; now down to 4 cats ages 17 and up, and 3 dogs ages 14, 13, and 8. (I volunteered in rescue for 8 years, hence the large numbers of pets. Many of the ones I kept had health issues.) I'm running a pet senior home, here! Vet says the problem is that I care for all of them so well. With 4 cats, and given their ages, I did not think it was going to be a problem using a non-prescription food that is low in phosphorus. Of the 4 cats I have left, two cats are related - Bobby and Tuppence are cousins. Tuppence has gained weight in the 3 years of using this food.

Not changed litter in years, so it isn't that. I am a gardener, my yard is pesticide-free, so I doubt chemically treated soil is the problem.

I had the lab work done on Crystal, the oldest. She has something going on, likely a tumor, per the vet. She throws up 3 and 4 times daily. He could not find anything. She is losing weight rapidly and likely won't last more than a few months. The vet said he could do an xray (though tumors being soft tissue won't always show up) or an ultrasound. But then what would we do, he asked, given her age of 19 years? We concluded we would just let her be. So he felt there was no point in doing further diagnostic tests.

And I had lab work done on Bobby, he of the squirts episodes. Bobby is FIV+, so I was concerned that may have been part of his issue. Not finding anything suggested to the vet this is a food issue. He thought doing just these 2 cats was enough to identify the issue. Hence I am trying to figure out what to feed.

Since they don't have a full set of teeth between the 4 of them, they clearly want a soft food instead of kibble. I hate to just randomly buy a bag or cans or pouches and give it a try, that seems so hit or miss. I was hoping for some ideas on what foods to try. I will have to study the options again.

 

[FeebysOwner]

I hate to just randomly buy a bag or cans or pouches and give it a try, that seems so hit or miss. I was hoping for some ideas on what foods to try.

Anything suggested here would just be random guesses - probably how you feel you have tried food in the past. At a minimum, if you can take a look at the foods you have given them that caused loose stools and see if there are some common denominators, you could list them here and that might prompt some suggestions that would be more targeted.

 

[Freedom]

OK will do.

 

[Furballsmom]

Hi
Are you using an additional complete dog food for your dogs in addition to the Applaws?

Please see another vet.

I agree.

If Crystal stops throwing up but continues to lose weight, please consider a more indepth thyroid test. I obviously don't know what the entire conversation entailed with your vet, but just because she is 19 is absolutely no reason to just give up/ throw in the towel, when she could possibly have a good life yet.

Did the vet suggest sub-q fluids, what with both vomiting and diarrhea happening, to offset the dehydration?

You are being redirected... this is a link to a directory of cat friendly and cat-only veterinarians.

My suggestion would be to obtain one of the many Weruva brands. All of them are as low in sodium, iron and phosphorus as the aafco allows, and additionally their WX version is ultra low in phosphorus.

The WX doesn't require a prescription and all the other nutrients in this food meet aafco requirements, so the food is complete. (The aafco told them they had to put the statement "not a complete food" on the containers due to the low phos, otherwise it wouldn't have made it to the shelves.)

Do a very slow transition using the dog food and the new food, where you offer a very small amount of the new food alongside the old food. Gradually increase the amount of the new food, and hopefully everyone's system is able to handle it.

 

[Freedom]

Furballsmom Yes of course the dogs get kibble with the topper. I don't use toppers, got a trial pack and ended up using most of it with the cats. Mostly I home cook for the dogs and the cats. Kibble is the standby backup here.

Crystal is not dehydrated (not at this time). She has stopped grooming herself, so I have to brush her daily, she hates that.

I'll look at the Weruva cat foods.

 

[Alldara]

Applepaws does have complete cat food AND toppers. So you could try that?

 

[Freedom]

That's a good thought! Duh. Thanks A Alldara I DID know that! Their cat stuff is the smaller sized cans. I'll look at it.

 

[Furballsmom]

I'll look at it.

If you decide to use it, you'll still need to do a slow transition to the food because it will be different than the dog food, and you'll need to doublecheck the nutritional breakdown if you're still interested in using a low/lower phos food.

 

[Freedom]

Yes, understood, Furballsmom .

 

[Furballsmom]

I hope Crystal and your other cats have a whole bunch more years

 

[Freedom]

Well THANK YOU very much for that! They have already had long lives. Of course indoor only cats do live longer.

 

[GranolaLouise]

Furballsmom Yes of course the dogs get kibble with the topper. I don't use toppers, got a trial pack and ended up using most of it with the cats. Mostly I home cook for the dogs and the cats. Kibble is the standby backup here.

Crystal is not dehydrated (not at this time). She has stopped grooming herself, so I have to brush her daily, she hates that.

I'll look at the Weruva cat foods.

When I was searching for a compatible renal food last year, I called weruva in Natick and they sent me some variety packs
to try .and did not charge me.

 

[Freedom]

That's is good to know! None of these 4 has been diagnosed with renal disease, so far.

 

[Alldara]

Let us know how it goes!

 

[Freedom]

Let us know how it goes!

Today Crystal had her final vet visit. She was 19 years old. Crystal had a tumor under her tongue, this is why her blood work came in as normal back in March; those tumors do not show up in lab reports. She lost 1.5 pounds since that March visit. She was not longer able to eat or drink. An indoor only cat, Crystal enjoyed sitting outside with me. Took this photo of her yesterday.

 

[Alldara]

Today Crystal had her final vet visit. She was 19 years old. Crystal had a tumor under her tongue, this is why her blood work came in as normal back in March; those tumors do not show up in lab reports. She lost 1.5 pounds since that March visit. She was not longer able to eat or drink. An indoor only cat, Crystal enjoyed sitting outside with me. Took this photo of her yesterday.View attachment 461762

Sending much love and peace to both you and Crystal.

 

[iPappy]

Today Crystal had her final vet visit. She was 19 years old. Crystal had a tumor under her tongue, this is why her blood work came in as normal back in March; those tumors do not show up in lab reports. She lost 1.5 pounds since that March visit. She was not longer able to eat or drink. An indoor only cat, Crystal enjoyed sitting outside with me. Took this photo of her yesterday.View attachment 461762

Freedom I am so sorry for your loss. I have had experience with tumors in that same place, and the outcome is never good. You did the right thing IMO by selflessly sparing her misery and eventual starvation/dehydration. The loss isn't any easier on us, though.
Hugs to you. I'm so very sorry. She sure was a beautiful girl.