What cat food is good for struvite crystals?

[fishtreatsmom]

Hi,

My cat Monty is 7 and three years ago he had the P-u surgery for blockage due to struvite crystals. I had him on the vet recommended food (can't remember what it was now) but Monty quickly got tired of it and refused to eat it. He is now eating the regular commercial food either Purina One or Nutro Max Cat like my other cats eat and canned Fancy Feast Grilled Tuna, Salmon or the Shrimp and Salmon mix. The only other foods he'll eat is mom's cooked or baked chicken breast (without the skin). He's very picky! Are there better dry cat foods I can give him with methione in it that may be beneficial? I'd like him to drink more water but he's very neglegient on that. Now lately I'm noticing his pee is getting smaller. I don't want another problem and Monty still has nightmares relating to his previous surgical vet stay.

 

[tamgirl99]

Wet food is absolutely the best for cats with crystal problems but if you must feed dry, only three our recommended by holistic vets that I am aware of:

Orijen
Wellness Core
Timberwolf Serengetti (sp?)

Of those I have only tried the first two and my cat refused the Wellness but dug right in to the Orijen. The only problem is that it isn't available every where so you probably have to order it off the net. Good luck!

 

[camille eonich]

My cat had a blockage in Febuary. The vet said to only give him filtered or distilled water, no spring water, no tap water because they usually have stuff in them that makes the kidneys work over time. I have an RO unit here that I use to top off my reef with so that's all any of my cats get now. We have well water otherwise.


I also switched him to canned food twice a day, actually IAMS low ph. I put so much water in it that it's like soup so if he wants to eat he is forced to take in water too. I also bought a fountain for them. He hasn't had a problem since but then that was the first problem that he had too.


You can request that the vet give you the dl methione so that you can add it to whatever food that he will eat but I believe that getting more fluids, more clean fluids in them is the best thing that you can do for them.

 

[sharky]

Originally Posted by tamgirl99

Wet food is absolutely the best for cats with crystal problems but if you must feed dry, only three our recommended by holistic vets that I am aware of:

Orijen
Wellness Core
Timberwolf Serengetti (sp?)

Of those I have only tried the first two and my cat refused the Wellness but dug right in to the Orijen. The only problem is that it isn't available every where so you probably have to order it off the net. Good luck!

Only one the serengetti has had any testing... Core % age wise is NO ... Orijen per my vet was high but might work...

Wet is far far better

... if you can... as you can find UTI friendly wets at nearly every price pt

the ONLY certified UTI drys right now are by Purina ... Max cat is in testing due to a minor ingredient change... I would try possible a purine urinary SINCE THEY have been tested for a few years ... pro plan and one have a urinary formula ... if feeding dry this would be it ... How long have you feed them???

 

[camille eonich]

Originally Posted by sharky

Core % age wise is NO

What does this mean?

 

[sharky]

Originally Posted by Camille Eonich

What does this mean?

the calcium , phosphorus and magnesium levels are VERY high and are not within the general guidelines for UTI health

 

[camille eonich]

Ohh Ok thanks for the reply.

 

[taima]

My kitty had struvite crystals and is on the Science Diet CD dry food. The only wet food he will eat is Fancy Feast, Friskies pouches, and a couple of ProPlan ones. (I spent a lot of money trying to get him to eat better wet foods but he wouldn't.) I give him distilled water and to give him extra water I mix some water in his wet food. I also do not feed him any foods with fish as when I he was first diagnosed I read several things saying to avoid fish. I give him these treats as well: http://www.petsmart.com/product/inde...ductId=2751679 and http://www.drsfostersmith.com/produc...m?pcatid=16135

 

[tamgirl99]

Originally Posted by sharky

Only one the serengetti has had any testing... Core % age wise is NO ... Orijen per my vet was high but might work...

Wet is far far better

... if you can... as you can find UTI friendly wets at nearly every price pt

the ONLY certified UTI drys right now are by Purina ... Max cat is in testing due to a minor ingredient change... I would try possible a purine urinary SINCE THEY have been tested for a few years ... pro plan and one have a urinary formula ... if feeding dry this would be it ... How long have you feed them???

The three I listed are the only grain-free recommendations noted in a FLUTD group I'm a part of from a couple of holistic vets. As always, I would talk to your vet before making any switch, but so far my cat is thriving on the Orijen. From what little I've read, grains are now being thought of as possibly a major contributing factor to crystal formation. Each cat is different but this one seems to be working great for mine.

 

[sharky]

Originally Posted by tamgirl99

The three I listed are the only grain-free recommendations noted in a FLUTD group I'm a part of from a couple of holistic vets. As always, I would talk to your vet before making any switch, but so far my cat is thriving on the Orijen. From what little I've read, grains are now being thought of as possibly a major contributing factor to crystal formation. Each cat is different but this one seems to be working great for mine.

the grains play a part but for those who have read further it is more the meat processing .. ie lamb formulas don't have the issue chicken does... MOST holistic vets here DO NOT recommend grain free drys for UTI health at ALL ... I am having luck with Taste of the wild which like Orijen is a borderline by looking at the percentages

.. but I also have only ever had one uti cat and it was kidney related she ate canned and raw

.. since grains help acidify I dont think the grains are causing it more likely how much

.. Realize in grain free the potato is acting in a similar manner to say corn

 

[tamgirl99]

Originally Posted by sharky

the grains play a part but for those who have read further it is more the meat processing .. ie lamb formulas don't have the issue chicken does... MOST holistic vets here DO NOT recommend grain free drys for UTI health at ALL ... I am having luck with Taste of the wild which like Orijen is a borderline by looking at the percentages

.. but I also have only ever had one uti cat and it was kidney related she ate canned and raw

.. since grains help acidify I dont think the grains are causing it more likely how much

.. Realize in grain free the potato is acting in a similar manner to say corn

That's interesting! I did read something about UTI health on Orijen's site, but I'd have to go back and look to see what it said.

 

[sharky]

a easy to read article relateing to sodium and the uti cat ..
http://www.cliniciansbrief.com/cms/p....FLUTDNovH.pdf

 

[mschauer]

Originally Posted by sharky

it is more the meat processing .. ie lamb formulas don't have the issue chicken does...

Can you elaborate on this and possibility cite a source for the information?

 

[mews2much]

I would not give fish to a Cat with Crystals. My Vet said it makes it worse. She is on C/D and Royal Canin Urinary. Fish makes it worse. My Sisters Cat had Crystals and after she stopped giving him fish it has not happened again.

 

[camille eonich]

Originally Posted by sharky

the grains play a part but for those who have read further it is more the meat processing .. ie lamb formulas don't have the issue chicken does...

From what I have been reading if the quality of the protein is a high quality, meat, then it's not going to put the strain on the kidneys that a low quality protein will or proteins that come from grains. Cats do NEED a high protein diet. Vets may tell you to reduce the protein level if the cat is experiencing renal failure but proteins don't cause crystals or urinary tract infections. More and more they are finding that it's the ph of the food that they eat, the water that they drink, what is in the water that they drink (causes changes in ph), along with the lack of water and other forms of moisture in the diet. Also since struvite crystal used to be so common they added methione to foods to reduce the ph of urine which is when they started seeing oxalate crystals.

Diet: The Protein Controversy

You may have heard that restricting protein is recommended for cats in kidney failure. Although this has been the "standard" treatment for decades, as far as cats are concerned, it has always been--and remains--very controversial. According to experts at Colorado State University's veterinary teaching hospital, restricted protein does not prevent kidney failure in a healthy cat, and has no effect on the ultimate progression of renal disease. Research also shows that even very high protein diets do not make renal failure worse in cats (although high protein does worsen the disease in dogs and humans). (One pet food maker recently completed a study it claims shows that its restricted-protein diet increases lifespan in CRF cats. However, because the study has not yet been published, it is impossible to evaluate the data, which is contradicted by other research.) The real culprit is actually phosphorus, which meat contains in large amounts. The only way to restrict phosphorus is to restrict protein. Decreasing phosphorus intake (by restricting protein) can help some cats feel better, so it may be worth a try in a symptomatic cat.

However, some studies have suggested that excessive restriction of protein may actually cause further damage to the kidneys and other organs, because there is not enough protein for normal body maintenance and repair. Experts say that these diets are

http://www.littlebigcat.com/index.ph...=show&item=003

This is just one link to one place that discusses the controvery over proteins in the diet and CRF.



Another link in which the controvery is hit on. http://www.felinecrf.com/managd.htm

 

[sharky]

Originally Posted by Camille Eonich

From what I have been reading if the quality of the protein is a high quality, meat, then it's not going to put the strain on the kidneys that a low quality protein will or proteins that come from grains. Cats do NEED a high protein diet. Vets may tell you to reduce the protein level if the cat is experiencing renal failure but proteins don't cause crystals or urinary tract infections. More and more they are finding that it's the ph of the food that they eat, the water that they drink, what is in the water that they drink (causes changes in ph), along with the lack of water and other forms of moisture in the diet. Also since struvite crystal used to be so common they added methione to foods to reduce the ph of urine which is when they started seeing oxalate crystals.




http://www.littlebigcat.com/index.ph...=show&item=003

This is just one link to one place that discusses the controvery over proteins in the diet and CRF.



Another link in which the controvery is hit on. http://www.felinecrf.com/managd.htm

YOU are NOT understanding ... fresh meat in a homemade diet or a raw diet is a different "animal" than processed dry food meat or meat meals..

In a homemade diet there is NO ISSUE with the %'s and uti health ... reason being as I wrote in this ALREADY

, the bone is either missing or in the correct ratio ... it is NOT when processed in DRY food

I managed a cat for 4 yrs with CRF with canned , raw and homemade( she did not much like my cooking

) HAVE YOU???

 

[camille eonich]

Excuse me but there was no mention of how the meat had been prepared at all. There was just what I quoted about meat being harder to process than grain which is what I was replying to.


I'm trying my best to learn and to understand all of this and from what I read of your post you threw a curve ball against everything that I have been reading. I'm still not convinced nor have I read anything that says that there is a difference in feeding a good kibble with good sources of protein from meat rather than from grain in how the kidneys process the protein.


If the processing of the meat makes it so much harder on the kidneys then how can it not make the processing of the inferior protein from grain and non-meat sources harder to process?

 

[sharky]

Originally Posted by Camille Eonich

Excuse me but there was no mention of how the meat had been prepared at all. There was just what I quoted about meat being harder to process than grain which is what I was replying to.


I'm trying my best to learn and to understand all of this and from what I read of your post you threw a curve ball against everything that I have been reading. I'm still not convinced nor have I read anything that says that there is a difference in feeding a good kibble with good sources of protein from meat rather than from grain in how the kidneys process the protein.


If the processing of the meat makes it so much harder on the kidneys then how can it not make the processing of the inferior protein from grain and non-meat sources harder to process?

Well if you do a little more reading you likely will understand ..

MOST Not all grains are parts ... ie flour is easier for a carnivore to digest than whole kernel since some of the digestive process is already done...

corn = 30-50 % digestibility in whole kernel , corn meal is about 50% , corn gluten meal is 66-76%( this being the protein ) ...

Fresh chicken ( ie homemade is appr since the studies are not there ) 95-99%

chicken meal low ash ie low bone 90%
chicken meal high ash about 80%
chicken after cooking is 85- 90% but falls to 5 to 6 places in the ingredients due to moisture loss

whitefish ( yeah generic ) usually has a HIGH mineral level since the bones are rarely removed is only about 50% digestible

Egg s protein is 100% available and thus digestible

so you can see the least digestible of the grain s is = to the least of the meat when cooked ....

for another comparison ( cooked and raw or partially cooked
brown rice whole cooked is about 50%
white rice is 70-85%

not cooked is NOT digestible at all
semi cooked yields grd corn
difference one is missing the outer sheath
quality is good but the digestibility comes from how processed ... RAW feeders note often finding white feces which = only minerals being excreted since it is so digestible

 

[camille eonich]

Very good!

Thank you for the explanation. I'll have to read a bit more and try to take all this in.

Believe me, I'm reading everything that I find and trying to keep an open mind and process it all.

 

[sharky]

Originally Posted by Camille Eonich

Very good!

Thank you for the explanation. I'll have to read a bit more and try to take all this in.

Believe me, I'm reading everything that I find and trying to keep an open mind and process it all.

just ask..lol.. just not for the links...lmao my brain is not that organized