Wet Food - I Am Frustrated

[Suru]

I'm sorry this happened to you, but these things do happen from time to time. Unfortunately, you did choose to move to the US, where certain standards are not all that high. But to be honest, even when I was in Japan where everything in the sense of shipping and online shopping experience experience was supposed to be perfect, there were screw ups, and I guess that's just life? My best piece of advice is to stay positive as best as possible, I can only imagine how miserable you are when everything is nothing but horrible. However, your cats seem to be doing fine and I think that's one thing about the move you can celebrate about

 

[She's a witch]

to be clear, I obviously failed at being funny when I suggested that it was sent to me on purpose :-) I know it did not. Both chewy and drElsey's were horrified as any company would be. I know it's bad luck, and I am actually being amused at times by this

 

[Sammiches]

Thanks @mizzely and @EmersonandEvie, Chewy has of course both refunded and resent the cans, dr Esley offered to send the case as well, but I still think that I should not have been sent maggots. As simply as that.



Of course I am paranoid, I have never had maggots sent to my house before, dead nor alive. Are you guys saying this is normal? Shouldn't they really check what they're sending when they pack?

As for disposing the cans, I have no experience with it and I was actually advised by drElsey's to dispose them. Quite frankly they smelled so bad that I wouldn't keep them anyway, and I couldn't even consider cleaning the cans of them. Obviously I know that the maggots cannot penetrate the can, but when they/their parts, residues, are on the surface of the can, and when the can is being opened, I can totally imagine that whatever is on the surface can be transferred to the bowl. That's why I started cleaning the cans, I see no harm with that.


which ones and why?

Your paranoia wasn't based on just that post alone, it's based the entirety of your posts in this thread. I'm not saying this to mock you, I'm saying this so that you take notice to it and try to ease up on it.

As for what to do with the cans, pack it up and return it to Chewy if they request a return for your refund and if not(sometimes they just send a replacement and let you keep the current batch), start considering on cleaning the cans since you said you didn't want to throw away food. If you meant that, then it should be a non-issue for you to clean the can and check the actual food inside the cans.

And no, if you clean the cans properly then there is a next to zero chance that whatever residue that "was" on the can will transfer to the food inside the can.

 

[She's a witch]

I'm sorry this happened to you, but these things do happen from time to time. Unfortunately, you did choose to move to the US, where certain standards are not all that high. But to be honest, even when I was in Japan where everything in the sense of shipping and online shopping experience experience was supposed to be perfect, there were screw ups, and I guess that's just life? My best piece of advice is to stay positive as best as possible, I can only imagine how miserable you are when everything is nothing but horrible. However, your cats seem to be doing fine and I think that's one thing about the move you can celebrate about

Thank Suru, I do repeat myself that this was my choice to move when things go bad :-)) and it's not as horrible as I sound, it's actually great and I love my life as I used to love it before the move. Basically the cat's food section of my life needs improving and some of it is painful because I love these two furry creature a lot and I want the best for them, and it's not as easy to provide this "best" as it used to be, and even when I spend more money on it that I used to I end up being sent the maggots

 

[She's a witch]

I am posting only to add Menadione to my frustration triggers in the cat food so that the list is up to date ...

 

[GalaxyGirl]

I am sorry for this post, since it's not really a question but more of a loooong rant, but I simply have to get it out of my system, or I'd go crazy. I have moved to USA over 4 months ago and I am still looking for the best wet food options for my cats. I've read a lot about what is available here (thanks to this forum!), we tried a lot, and although it's much, much easier than at the beginning, it's not as good as I want it to be. But at least my cats have something to eat, mostly Rawz, Weruwa, Wellness Core, ZiwiPeak, Instinct, Koha Roo, Dr Elsey. I have to rotate otherwise they are bored with the flavours/brands. They eat pate only. But to me, there is something wrong with every single one of these brands.
So what frustrates me?
1. Lack of clarity of what are the proportions of each ingredient in the can. To give you an example, I used to deal with the following ingredients list, courtesy of European Union:
Veal:
70% veal* (muscle meat, heart, liver, lungs, kidney), 26.6% drinking water, 1% apricots, 1% pineapple, 1% minerals (Vitamin D3 (200 IU), taurine (1500mg), zinc [as zinc sulphate monohydrate] (15mg), manganese [as manganese-(II)-sulphate monohydrate] (3mg), iodine [as calcium iodate anhydrous] (0.75mg).), 0.15% linseed oil, 0.15% sea salt, 0.1% seaweed.
*Components: approx 50% muscle meat and heart (2/3 meat and 1/3 heart), approx. 50% offal (1/3 each of liver, lung and kidney).
or
Game & Chicken:
Chicken (55% incl. muscle meat, stock, liver), game (42% incl. muscle meat, heart, stock), salmon oil (1%), pomegranate seeds (1%), minerals (1%: Vitamin D3 (200 IU), taurine (1500mg), zinc [as zinc sulphate monohydrate] (15mg), manganese [as manganese-(II)-sulphate monohydrate] (3mg), iodine [as calcium iodate anhydrous] (0.75mg).)

Here in the USA, the ingredients proportions are not listed, everyone seems obsessed with first ingredient, or 5 first ingredients, without knowing how much % of all the ingredients it is. I still have troubles telling one brand of another because of that.

2. GELLING AGENTS. I truly don't understand why, why, why are all of these gums put into pates. Do cats really like the jelly texture? That was in fact the biggest problem for my cats at the beginning, they just couldn't get used to the texture, I still need to squash it with the fork for them to eat. And this seems to be harmful stuff! Some gums are being replaced by agar-agar but from what I read it is almost the same as carraageenan, and I did notice that the stools of one of my cats are soft after both carraageenan and agar agar. This is so frustrating. For some reason European pates do not have any gelling agents. Is this really necessary? The only brand without it seems to be Rawz but I'll rant about Rawz when I'll be raging on how expensive the quality food here is.

3. CLAY Seriously, clay in Instinct? I must stop giving it to my cats, it cannot be right.

4. Natural and artificial FLAVORS. Does meat really need the flavor to be added for cats to eat it? Even Rawz do it. What is this flavor...

5. SALT is everywhere. I tried to find salt free cans but I failed. One of my cats doesn't drink at all, and the other, drinking cat, started to drink so much more in here, and it makes me worried that the not-drinking cat doesn't wash out all this additional salt.

6. FISH is soooo common. I was always told to avoid feeding cats with fish so I'm super surprised how popular fish is in US cans. My cats like Weruwa but it is mostly based on fish so I want to get rid of this.

7. CHICKEN. Also, not easy to find chicken free cans, which I would like to since I hear caged chicken is still a thing. And back in Europe, when you see the word: 'chicken' in the ingredients list, you assume it's any, mostly the worst, part of chicken, unless specified what exact part of chicken it is. That's why the better producers always specify if it's muscle meat or offal etc. I rarely see this here.

8. PEAS. Green peas, chickpeas etc. Why, why, why? i understand it's cheap and filling, but since I am not buying cheap food but very expensive, I would expect that Instinct, ZiwiPeak would be free of it. I simply feel cheated when I see peas in the expensive product. But, to be fair, one of my cats seems to like peas a lot, at least

9. SUPPLEMENTs OF VITAMINS AND MINERALS. All cans are heavily supplemented, I guess it's a requirement. I think in Europe the emphasis is put on having vitamins etc from natural sources rather than artificial so I'm surprised to see it. I see that the coats of my cats are nice and shiny, so they do work, I'm just worried if there are any long term consequences. And IRON, I really truly don't understand why would you supplement meat with iron. What am I missing?

10. Lack of emphasis on TAURINE. In Europe taurine is so much talked about with reference to cat food, here it doesn't seem to be an issue. I'm hoping it's because it's taken for granted that it is enough. Although I heard this week it was a recall of some food because of the taurine. So do they get enough?

11. PRICE. I paid 72$ for Rabbit Rawz 24 cans (156 grams each). In Europe, I used to pay less than 32eur for 24 cans (200 grams each) for a good quality Grau (German brand, no gelling agents, no peas, no clay). And I really lived in one of the most expensive places in Europe (Luxembourg). It really hurts, because I don't think it's worth the price at all in comparision. And Hound&Gatos. They charge 102$ for 24 cans of Rabbit. It's a pity because it has good ingredients (apart from agar agar), but unfortunately and/or luckily, my cats didn't like the other flavors of this brand, so I am not even giving them the rabbit, because I am afraid they will like it (in general rabbit is their favourite flavor). 102$ for 24 cans?? I used to pay 43 eur for 24 cans (200 gr) of LID kangaroo.

12. I weight every can since I portion them between my two cats, and almost every can does not contain advertised 156 grams of the product, but 10-15 grams less. Again, I feel cheated.

13. Everyone seems to be so protective of American food, and as much as I understand it, I dream to have an option to buy some of the great German cans. But it doesn't seem to be an option. But maybe I could find a way to smuggle it.

I am thinking about transition to raw food but again, the idea of commercial raw is weird to me, especially that I would be willing to prepare food for my cats from the scratch (emotionally it would be difficult since I am vegetarian), but my vet has told me that the raw meat generally accessible is most likely filled with antibiotics and stuff I don't want to know about. So I am torn. If I buy the fresh meat in WholeFoods, would that be acceptable??

I always knew that changing the continent will not be easy for my cats (and me), and change in general is not easy, and I know I am in the denial phase :-) but I also know the frustration will pass, and I will find the best solution there is. But right now, I just want to scream :-))

Any thoughts, inspiration, ideas, responses to my questions, will be greatly appreciated. And sorry if my English is not always understandable.

Yes the food here is bad. I have family in Germany and even factory farm meat taste better than our “organic” stuff. There quality is better in most other countries. I bought a brand of cat food that had no bad things in it a few weeks ago on clearance because my cats are allergic to the thickeners and fillers in cat food. When I got home and feed it to them they didn’t have diarrhea. So I’m hoping to find it again. Then I read where it was made and it Dawned on me why it didn’t have bad ingredients because of the country that it came from. It is very sad how much crap the US allows versus in other countries.

 

[bhcmdvl]

I share your frustration with the labeling of pet food ingredients here in the US. the more I've tried to educate myself in the past 3 years, the more frustrated I've become. It started when we adopted a one year old cat that seemed to have problems with soft poop no matter what we fed him. The vet treated him for worms, tried antibiotics all the usual and nothing helped. Finally out of desperation and the fact that I live within driving distance of Hare Today, I decided to try raw to see what happened. It immediately cleared up and although I supplement with several varieties of canned, he's had no problems since.
In the past three years, I've abandoned kibble for obvious reasons (although I did have an 18 year old cat who was fed dry Iams and a little canned the last 3 years before going into kidney failure). The more you read on this site, many people feed a variety of less expensive wet foods and still have healthy cats.
There are a couple of sites that actually give you the REAL percentage of fat in canned foods and the price is not an indication of the quality. Several of the premium canned foods purposefully can hide the true percentages of the cheaper protein sources and our government isn't doing anything to make it easier!
I'm currently thinking of transitioning into some cooked chicken recipes to integrate into my cat's rotation. There's some very good info and recipes on this site if you spend some time searching. This thread has some great info:
Cooked Recipes Thread
Good luck.

 

[She's a witch]

Yes the food here is bad. I have family in Germany and even factory farm meat taste better than our “organic” stuff. There quality is better in most other countries. I bought a brand of cat food that had no bad things in it a few weeks ago on clearance because my cats are allergic to the thickeners and fillers in cat food. When I got home and feed it to them they didn’t have diarrhea. So I’m hoping to find it again. Then I read where it was made and it Dawned on me why it didn’t have bad ingredients because of the country that it came from. It is very sad how much crap the US allows versus in other countries.

Yes I probably hate the thickeners the most. I actually get into email exchanges with some manufacturers here and all I hear is: texture, palatability, look. So I keep asking, why European manufacturers don't have such issue, why don't they have to use the gums? One of my guesses is that in the American food there are more additives than in European, including synthetic vitamins and minerals, and maybe they require binding agent? My other guess is how the food looks like. American cat food is prettier indeed. The European pates that I know are not that finely grounded and sometimes you can actually see some tissues. Maybe this is not an option in the States? Maybe because of different grinding method the European manufacturers do not require gelling agent? I still don't know.

I share your frustration with the labeling of pet food ingredients here in the US. the more I've tried to educate myself in the past 3 years, the more frustrated I've become. It started when we adopted a one year old cat that seemed to have problems with soft poop no matter what we fed him. The vet treated him for worms, tried antibiotics all the usual and nothing helped. Finally out of desperation and the fact that I live within driving distance of Hare Today, I decided to try raw to see what happened. It immediately cleared up and although I supplement with several varieties of canned, he's had no problems since.
In the past three years, I've abandoned kibble for obvious reasons (although I did have an 18 year old cat who was fed dry Iams and a little canned the last 3 years before going into kidney failure). The more you read on this site, many people feed a variety of less expensive wet foods and still have healthy cats.
There are a couple of sites that actually give you the REAL percentage of fat in canned foods and the price is not an indication of the quality. Several of the premium canned foods purposefully can hide the true percentages of the cheaper protein sources and our government isn't doing anything to make it easier!
I'm currently thinking of transitioning into some cooked chicken recipes to integrate into my cat's rotation. There's some very good info and recipes on this site if you spend some time searching. This thread has some great info:
Cooked Recipes Thread
Good luck.

I actually wanted to include in my rotation some cheaper but of a good reputation food, because I keep telling myself, if I spend that much and it doesn't satisfy me, why not spending less and be not satisfied, but with more money in my wallet left? I bought FF classic Turkey, Tiny Tiger Turkey and Redbarn Lamb. Last two are staying as we all accepted them, FF I will not buy again because of 3 reasons: I hate Nestle company, they add artificial flavouring and colours, and their food shrinks, the last one being a deal breaker for me. I bought 15 cans I think and 2 so far were only hardly 60grams instead of 85gr which left me with the decision to let my cats eat 1/4 less of their usual portion or to open another can to add the missing amount. Bad luck again.

I really wish I could feed raw only, but unexpectedly, one of my cats refused all of the commercial frozen raw I bought for them (Wild Coast and Natural Pantry). The other cat loves it so I feed him that 3 days a week while I'm trying to figure out why Ygritte won't eat it, although she goes crazy around raw and is super excited to try it until I serve it to her. She used to love raw muscle beef and chicken I was giving them back in Luxembourg, but she won't accept balanced commercial raw for cats. My guess is that she doesn't like organ meat, I actually tested it and bought some chicken liver from WholeFoods and she didn't want to eat it - although as usual she went crazy when we prepared it for them. So eventually I will get there but I need both of my cats on board.
Hare Today is super difficult to me as I have problems even navigating the site - too emotional for my vegetarian soul for the moment. But that's my ultimate goal, to prepare food for them from the scratch, as I do for myself.

 

[lisahe]

She's a witch , I couldn't agree with you more about how unnecessary all those gums, thickeners, and gelling agents are! They're a big part of what drove me to start making more food for our cats. What really confounds me about the manufacturers' claims of palatability and texture is that our cats much prefer their homemade foods to their commercial raw and canned foods. (The same was true of Tiki back a few iterations ago. They love it with no gelling anything.) I use both EZ Complete and Alnutrin with eggshell calcium and the cats lap them both right up.

Although I can't say I enjoy making cat food -- I cook the meat and then have to chop/dice/process it and portion it out for the freezer -- but it's the best food we're feeding so I feel good about making it, particularly because the cats really love it.

 

[She's a witch]

She's a witch , I couldn't agree with you more about how unnecessary all those gums, thickeners, and gelling agents are! They're a big part of what drove me to start making more food for our cats. What really confounds me about the manufacturers' claims of palatability and texture is that our cats much prefer their homemade foods to their commercial raw and canned foods. (The same was true of Tiki back a few iterations ago. They love it with no gelling anything.) I use both EZ Complete and Alnutrin with eggshell calcium and the cats lap them both right up.

Although I can't say I enjoy making cat food -- I cook the meat and then have to chop/dice/process it and portion it out for the freezer -- but it's the best food we're feeding so I feel good about making it, particularly because the cats really love it.

I still remember my kitten's reaction when I first gave her some raw meat - she went absolutely and fiercely crazy. She calmed down over it a bit now that she's an adult. My other cat is usually super relaxed but when he's eating raw, he growls and hisses at her if she is too close which I swear he never does. So yeah, their priceless reactions remind me that they may be the sweetest cats in the world, but also they are sworn predators and they need to be treated as such.

I think the next step for me would be to choose a simple recipe and buy a small amount of meat and organs in some good grocery store and prepare even without the supplements (I don't want to buy them just yet), just to see if Ygritte will be tempted. The problem is that the only organ meat I saw widely available is liver, and since it got a hard no, I need to find something else in reasonable amount (I know I can buy some in big bags but I don't want that yet). Also I don't want to grind the meat, I want them to eat bigger pieces for their teeth's sake. I also noticed that my raw-eater prefers Natural Pet Pantry which has bigger pieces from finely grounded Wild Cost Raw.
This is overwhelming but it starts taking shape.

 

[lisahe]

This is overwhelming but it starts taking shape.

Yes, I know exactly what you mean about "overwhelming"! That's why I use the premixed supplements. With the supplements I use -- and with Dr. Pierson's recipe on catinfo.org -- the only organ meat you need is liver, so that part is easy. Bone is another matter, though, and the supplements I use have egg shell instead of bone or bone meal. (Thank goodness because one of our cats has been a little constipated, which is no fun!)

The good thing is that there are lots of ways to make good food so at least you have some choices!

 

[CHIKITTIES]

I still remember my kitten's reaction when I first gave her some raw meat - she went absolutely and fiercely crazy. She calmed down over it a bit now that she's an adult. My other cat is usually super relaxed but when he's eating raw, he growls and hisses at her if she is too close which I swear he never does. So yeah, their priceless reactions remind me that they may be the sweetest cats in the world, but also they are sworn predators and they need to be treated as such.

I think the next step for me would be to choose a simple recipe and buy a small amount of meat and organs in some good grocery store and prepare even without the supplements (I don't want to buy them just yet), just to see if Ygritte will be tempted. The problem is that the only organ meat I saw widely available is liver, and since it got a hard no, I need to find something else in reasonable amount (I know I can buy some in big bags but I don't want that yet). Also I don't want to grind the meat, I want them to eat bigger pieces for their teeth's sake. I also noticed that my raw-eater prefers Natural Pet Pantry which has bigger pieces from finely grounded Wild Cost Raw.
This is overwhelming but it starts taking shape.

I feel you ... being vegetarian it took me a while to make up my mind start making food But if you are already giving commercial frozen raw, that is a big step! I remember first time I've got tiny cup of RadCat sample ... thawed it ... "oh boy, bloody meat ".

Sounds like you already have a good plan, I just want to add that Hare Today is good place to start. Meat comes rock solid frozen, and if you handle everything still 85% frozen, it doesn't feel ... so bad. I see you want chunk, means you have to cut meat, still, if you do it still almost completely frozen, not too bad. Re liver, you can even use freeze dried liver instead of real stuff. Which makes your life a lot easier.

I am still not quite comfortable walking around meat section at store (half holding breath). Downside of HareToday is you have to buy quite a bit. 10lb of raw meat sitting in freezer?! (I no longer have much human food in freezer )

Good luck

 

[She's a witch]

I feel you ... being vegetarian it took me a while to make up my mind start making food But if you are already giving commercial frozen raw, that is a big step! I remember first time I've got tiny cup of RadCat sample ... thawed it ... "oh boy, bloody meat ".

Sounds like you already have a good plan, I just want to add that Hare Today is good place to start. Meat comes rock solid frozen, and if you handle everything still 85% frozen, it doesn't feel ... so bad. I see you want chunk, means you have to cut meat, still, if you do it still almost completely frozen, not too bad. Re liver, you can even use freeze dried liver instead of real stuff. Which makes your life a lot easier.

I am still not quite comfortable walking around meat section at store (half holding breath). Downside of HareToday is you have to buy quite a bit. 10lb of raw meat sitting in freezer?! (I no longer have much human food in freezer )

Good luck

I actually still remember how difficult it was to feed my cats canned food at the beginning when we rescued our kitten. It gets better and now I don’t notice any emotions anymore which is good and bad at the same time. But this is an indication that it will get better with raw food as well and at some point it will simply become “cat food” whether I like it or not.
I actually might have some local alternative to hare today which would be great, here in Seattle it seems that raw food options are flowing - lots of informed pet lovers so I need to ask around.

 

[bhcmdvl]

Our pet food industry is a disgrace and the more you read, the more it confirms the truth. There's a Netflix documentary "Pet Fooled" everyone should watch and then do some of your own research-I've read some of the critics but it's pretty eye opening. The truth can be elusive unfortunately. Europe is way ahead of the US in terms of protecting people and pets from harmful additives to all the food. EZ Complete looks like a great product, it's just so expensive, it costs more than the meat. I just started looking at BalanceIt yesterday. Today I made mschauer's Cooked chicken recipe with Alnutrin. My three cats loved it! I wonder if you could use skinless boneless thighs because I baked mine tightly covered with foil at 275 degrees and added all the liquid to the chicken. It would be super simple if you could use boneless chicken! I already get Alnutrin with the products I get from Hare Today. They have a cooked chicken recipe on their website too. I use Hare Today's whole carcass rabbit and poultry grinds with and without bone and some of their organ grinds but I'm lucky I can just drive out there and pick up what I need without paying the shipping. They have great products and variety and I can't say enough good about them. I like the raw, but chicken is so much cheaper when its on sale at the store but I'm not sure I'm real comfortable feeding that raw. I do watch the "use by" dates and only buy the freshest and have had no problems in the last two years. I also worry about the darned FDA hassling these small companies so I want to keep all my options open.