Weight Loss And Wet Food

[kittensx4]

Two of my cats are overweight. Timmy is 16 lbs Runt is 17 lbs. They are 5 years old and have always eaten a combo of wet and dry. I know a wet diet is best for weight loss however Timmy will not eat enough wet food for that to be exclusive. All 5 of my cats get 1.5 ounces each twice a day wet and I put down 3/4 cup of dry, divided between 3 bowls 3 times a day. Timmy will usually only eat about an ounce of wet at each sitting. And he and Runt eat more dry than my other 3. I have to be careful with Timmy as he has sensitive digestion so I can't "force" an all wet diet on him and I know I need to be sure he, and everyone continues to get their required daily calories. My idea was to drop feeding dry from 3 times a day to two times while gradually increasing their amount of wet. Hoping to ultimately get down to one dry feeding a day, if any. My concern is if Timmy wont increase his appetite for wet food then what? Any suggestions are greatly appreciated! Their current diet is Nature's Recipe grain free chicken for dry and I rotate the wet between pro plan, organix, merrick and FF classic, all wet is grain and carrageenan free. Am currently trying tiki and wellness but they are still unsure about those two. I would like for each of them to lose at least 3 lbs, slowly i know. Thanks in advance for any ideas!

 

[kittensx4]

And I realize this should be in the nutrition forum but I don't know how to move it sorry!

 

[mrsgreenjeens]

I'e requested your posts be moved over to Nutrition for you.

In the meantime, have you seen this article? Transitioning Your Cat From Kibble To A New Type Of Food (canned, Raw, Or Homemade)

I transitioned four FREE FED kibble addicts to an all wet food diet, so I know this can be done . It just takes time and patience. The key is finding the right wet food. Not everyone will like the same foods, so be prepared to have more than one (or even three) bowl at meal time. Each of mine have their own bowl, and their own spot to eat. That way they are undisturbed, and the little piggies in the group cannot eat more than their allotted amount. Very helpful when you are trying to get some of them to lose weight

 

[kittensx4]

I'e requested your posts be moved over to Nutrition for you.

In the meantime, have you seen this article? Transitioning Your Cat From Kibble To A New Type Of Food (canned, Raw, Or Homemade)

I transitioned four FREE FED kibble addicts to an all wet food diet, so I know this can be done . It just takes time and patience. The key is finding the right wet food. Not everyone will like the same foods, so be prepared to have more than one (or even three) bowl at meal time. Each of mine have their own bowl, and their own spot to eat. That way they are undisturbed, and the little piggies in the group cannot eat more than their allotted amount. Very helpful when you are trying to get some of them to lose weight

Thanks for moving my post and sorry again about That! Also, thanks for the info!

 

[MeganLLB]

Do you have a scale so you can weight them? The first time I tried to pick up Kitty she bit me. I can't hold her for very long and the scale takes a few seconds to come up. It would be good to weight them once a week, but I'm only going to weight mine maybe every other or once a month because I hate doing it and having to hold her.

 

[kittensx4]

Yes i have a scale. I weigh them every weekend. 3 hold a pretty steady weight while my other 2 pack on more little by little.

 

[thehistorian]

I am dealing with a similar issue right now with one of the two cats that I adopted a bit over a month ago. My boy Ramsey is a hefty 17 pounds and needs to lose weight, but like your two, he is more of a drive food fan. However, I have found a way to get him chow down on wet food.

Hunger. No, I do not starve him or make him go severely long periods of time without food. There are a few different opinions out there about the most appropriate feeding schedule for cats. In my experience, the best feeding schedules for cats is one of the following: Three-five smalls meals throughout the day or two large meals spaced far apart throughout the day. For Ramsey (my boy) and luckily my little lady as well, the two large meals have worked really well.

At 6 AM in the morning, I put two whole 3 ounce cans of wet food down in two bowls. They clean the plates. At 6 PM I put two bowls of dry food down. Each bowl has 1/4th a cup of dry food in it for a total of 1/2 a cup. I give Twyla a few treats between meals because she is a healthy size. Within about an hour of each meal, they have both chowed down. I watch them to make sure they are both eating and boy oh boy do they ever. This does mean they go about eleven to twelve hours between meals, though. This is actually not a bad thing and mimics the length of time they would go without food if they lived out doors. The key is to NEVER exceed this length of time. What it does is jump start their hunger drive.

Then I put down a big portion and let them go to town. So, my suggestion would be to see if you can space their meals in such a way to jump start the hunger drive. As for calories, do not sweat it too much. I was doing that a few weeks ago and it started to drive me nuts. Honestly, if you put down nice portion sizes and a nice variety after far spaced meals, they should be fine and get enough because their hunger will drive them to eat.

 

[kittensx4]

I feed similarly. They get wet about 6:30am, then again between 5:45-6:00 pm (I work and am gone 7:30-5:30 M-F). Then I put dry out before I leave in the morning after breakfast (7 am), after dinner (6 pm) and before I go to bed (10 pm). Right now I am slowly adding to the amount of wet they are eating and lessening the amount of dry. I have also added EVO chicken & turkey to their dry, which is currently Natures Recipe Indoor chicken. You are right about being overwhelmed by the calorie thing. I read so many conflicting things. Cats need 150 calories a day, or 200 or 250?!?! Ugh! 10 calories per lb. of body weight, or 15 or 20 or more??? Low carb, low calorie, high protein, but not too high in protein. Ugh again!!! Feed low calorie, but make sure they are getting enough calories!!! Are you kidding me?!?! Well, I guess I must be doing it half right because my other 3 are at decent weights. So as of right now they are splitting two 5.0-5.5 oz. cans or three 3.0-3.3 oz. cans between the 5 of them for breakfast and again at dinner. Then I have 3 bowls around for dry. I am putting 3/4 cup divided between the bowls in the a.m., 1/2 cup divided at dinner, then 3/4 cup divided before bed. I am feeding a mix of 1/2 natures recipe, 1/2 Evo for dry. Weird I know. Natures recipe has higher carbs but lower calorie, and Evo has way lower carbs but higher calories. So in my carb vs. calorie overloaded and overwhelmed mind, this was the choice I went with. Prior they were splitting about 1-1.5 5.5 oz. cans at each meal and Natures Recipe dry 1/3 cup in each of the three bowls 3 times a day. Why I am putting dry down 3 times is because one of my cats, Timmy. I tried going to dry twice a day and if I do that he will hog it and then throw it up. I get better results this way as he will just eat a bit and walk away. Trickery I guess- still 3 times a day, but less in the bowls Timmy has digestive issues and idiopathic cystis so I don't need him either puking or getting stressed. On a positive note, Timmy, and all the cats really, are very good drinkers. They love their fountains and I now have 4 different ones placed around. This is all very stressing!!! I'm pretty sure these cats will be the death of me

 

[thehistorian]

I feed similarly. They get wet about 6:30am, then again between 5:45-6:00 pm (I work and am gone 7:30-5:30 M-F). Then I put dry out before I leave in the morning after breakfast (7 am), after dinner (6 pm) and before I go to bed (10 pm). Right now I am slowly adding to the amount of wet they are eating and lessening the amount of dry. I have also added EVO chicken & turkey to their dry, which is currently Natures Recipe Indoor chicken. You are right about being overwhelmed by the calorie thing. I read so many conflicting things. Cats need 150 calories a day, or 200 or 250?!?! Ugh! 10 calories per lb. of body weight, or 15 or 20 or more??? Low carb, low calorie, high protein, but not too high in protein. Ugh again!!! Feed low calorie, but make sure they are getting enough calories!!! Are you kidding me?!?! Well, I guess I must be doing it half right because my other 3 are at decent weights. So as of right now they are splitting two 5.0-5.5 oz. cans or three 3.0-3.3 oz. cans between the 5 of them for breakfast and again at dinner. Then I have 3 bowls around for dry. I am putting 3/4 cup divided between the bowls in the a.m., 1/2 cup divided at dinner, then 3/4 cup divided before bed. I am feeding a mix of 1/2 natures recipe, 1/2 Evo for dry. Weird I know. Natures recipe has higher carbs but lower calorie, and Evo has way lower carbs but higher calories. So in my carb vs. calorie overloaded and overwhelmed mind, this was the choice I went with. Prior they were splitting about 1-1.5 5.5 oz. cans at each meal and Natures Recipe dry 1/3 cup in each of the three bowls 3 times a day. Why I am putting dry down 3 times is because one of my cats, Timmy. I tried going to dry twice a day and if I do that he will hog it and then throw it up. I get better results this way as he will just eat a bit and walk away. Trickery I guess- still 3 times a day, but less in the bowls Timmy has digestive issues and idiopathic cystis so I don't need him either puking or getting stressed. On a positive note, Timmy, and all the cats really, are very good drinkers. They love their fountains and I now have 4 different ones placed around. This is all very stressing!!! I'm pretty sure these cats will be the death of me

Hey, you also have to do what works for your kitties! I can suggest a dry food that is better suited to weight loss and weight control. I use the following dry food for my babies:

https://www.solidgoldpet.com/product/high-protein-chicken-2/

It's much lower carb, higher protein and it is lower in calories to boot! It is 345 per one cup! So there is no choice there. If you put SGHP down in a few half cup servings everyone will be getting what they need, but without over doing it. So, I give mine half a cup a day of dry food.

 

[kittensx4]

Hey, you also have to do what works for your kitties! I can suggest a dry food that is better suited to weight loss and weight control. I use the following dry food for my babies:

https://www.solidgoldpet.com/product/high-protein-chicken-2/

It's much lower carb, higher protein and it is lower in calories to boot! It is 345 per one cup! So there is no choice there. If you put SGHP down in a few half cup servings everyone will be getting what they need, but without over doing it. So, I give mine half a cup a day of dry food.

Nice calories! Do you happen to know the carb content?

 

[thehistorian]

Nice calories! Do you happen to know the carb content?

I do not know the exact carb content, but the fiber is maxed out at 3% and the food is advertised as high protein, low carb and based on the ingredients I would say it is fairly low. There are no potatoes, no whole peas, and no chickpeas etc. There is pea protein, but that is the only plant based protein I see. The majority is meat and more meat.

 

[kittensx4]

I do not know the exact carb content, but the fiber is maxed out at 3% and the food is advertised as high protein, low carb and based on the ingredients I would say it is fairly low. There are no potatoes, no whole peas, and no chickpeas etc. There is pea protein, but that is the only plant based protein I see. The majority is meat and more meat.

Ok uh oh.... has the formula changed? I went to the link you posted and the ingredients show both peas and chickpeas???

 

[thehistorian]

Ok uh oh.... has the formula changed? I went to the link you posted and the ingredients show both peas and chickpeas???

Hmm, what? That is strange. Hold on. Let me check Petco. They are usually up to date.

https://www.petco.com/shop/en/petco...ain-and-gluten-free-dry-cat-food-with-chicken

Ah, so it does have chickpeas! However, I do not see any whole peas. Just pea protein. The lack of potatoes does still make it one of the better dry foods. Plus the fact that the calorie content is so reasonable. Keep in mind that no matter what dry food you feed, it is always going to have a relatively high level of carbs in it because dry food must have carbs in it in order for it to cook properly. However, the other plus side with this dry food is that chickpeas seems to be the only major source of carbs and when you compare it to potatoes and peas, it is super low.

A single medium sized potato is 37 g of carbs, about one cup of peas is 21 g of carbs, and chickpeas (depending on amount used), can be less in carbs. It is all relative. So, as far as dry foods go, this is about as good as it gets. However, this is not to say that foods such as Orijen and Acana are bad. They most certainly are not, but they are very rich and calorie dense so if you go that route, you need to be *very* careful how much you feed them.

Of course, the issue with your babies is that some of them are dry food addicts like my boy was (he has become much more accepting of the wet food once I put him and his wife on a strict schedule) and they may not take kindly to the extremely reduced portions of Orijen or Acana that you would have to feed in order to get them their dry food BUT keep their weight under control.

Nevertheless, you should check into all three options and see what works best for you. I have found the Solid Gold works best because of the higher meat content and the lower calories that allow me to feed more crunchies so my crunchy addict gets his fill. LOL!

On a lighter note, why is it always the male kitties who need the wet food most (urinary crystals risk, weight etc.) that seem to be the dry food lovers? Ugh!

 

[orange&white]

My senior cat has been dieting for 10 months. He lost a lot in the initial few months just by removing the dry food. I think you have a good plan to keep reducing the amount of dry food you leave out, given Timmy's health issues. It would be ideal if you want to feed dry to the 3 healthy cats to get to a point where dry becomes only fed-by-hand treats.

You're doing great with the weekend weigh-ins.

I think you will need to get a handle on how many calories per day the 2 "diet" cats are eating right now, and the only way to do that is to not leave bowls of dry food sitting out. Timmy probably will eat more canned if he's hungrier...he may be going bowl to bowl right now on the dry food to get most of his calories.

It doesn't really matter if the "right number" of calories is 150, 200, or 250...you're right, that just confuses things. Every cat is different. After an intitial strong start by taking away the dry food, my cat plateaud on weight loss until I started to cut his calories each week. He can eat the same calories for a week, and if no weight loss, 20 calories/day less for the next week. On canned food, he didn't start losing weight again until he was around 180 kcal/day.

In January, I switched him from canned to raw and he gained a little because I didn't know how many calories were in my raw mixes. But same plan. On raw, food is measured by percent of food per body weight. So we've been cutting back an ounce or so each week he doesn't lose weight, and I recently started making him some lower-fat food than what my kitten eats. They eat timed meals in separate rooms.

Anyway, you're doing really good. The only thing I think you are missing is that you can't ever free-feed when you aren't home to see which cat is eating most of the food. The 3 healthy cats may be healthy because the two fat cats are scarfing all the dry. I would cut out those dry meals you put down before you leave for work and the before bed as quickly as possible.

Look forward to reading about progress with the diet!

 

[orange&white]

Hmm, what? That is strange. Hold on. Let me check Petco. They are usually up to date.

https://www.petco.com/shop/en/petco...ain-and-gluten-free-dry-cat-food-with-chicken

Ah, so it does have chickpeas! However, I do not see any whole peas. Just pea protein. The lack of potatoes does still make it one of the better dry foods. Plus the fact that the calorie content is so reasonable. Keep in mind that no matter what dry food you feed, it is always going to have a relatively high level of carbs in it because dry food must have carbs in it in order for it to cook properly. However, the other plus side with this dry food is that chickpeas seems to be the only major source of carbs and when you compare it to potatoes and peas, it is super low.

A single medium sized potato is 37 g of carbs, about one cup of peas is 21 g of carbs, and chickpeas (depending on amount used), can be less in carbs.

All dry foods are similar to meat-flavored bread dough in that they can't be held together without a lot of carbohydrate flours/powders. ....which means they are all going to be very high in carbohydrates. There's no avoiding it.

Pea protein is a concentrated powder which greatly increases the protein content of the food, but plant proteins like chickpeas and powdered peas are not bioavailable for cats to digest...so most is undigested and ends in the litter box. The chickpeas are probably purchased by the manufacturer as "whole dried chickpeas", then ground into a chickpea flour to process and bind other ingredients.

Given that the calorie count per cup is so low, there is a lot of chickpea and pea powder in that food. The reason kibbles which are high in meat proteins (like Evo) are very high calories is because meat is much higher in calories than vegetables...and also bioavailable to the cat as nutrition. High protein doesn't mean anything in kibble when the majority of that protein comes from vegetables.

 

[thehistorian]

All dry foods are similar to meat-flavored bread dough in that they can't be held together without a lot of carbohydrate flours/powders. ....which means they are all going to be very high in carbohydrates. There's no avoiding it.

Pea protein is a concentrated powder which greatly increases the protein content of the food, but plant proteins like chickpeas and powdered peas are not bioavailable for cats to digest...so most is undigested and ends in the litter box. The chickpeas are probably purchased by the manufacturer as "whole dried chickpeas", then ground into a chickpea flour to process and bind other ingredients.

Given that the calorie count per cup is so low, there is a lot of chickpea and pea powder in that food. The reason kibbles which are high in meat proteins (like Evo) are very high calories is because meat is much higher in calories than vegetables...and also bioavailable to the cat as nutrition. High protein doesn't mean anything in kibble when the majority of that protein comes from vegetables.

Oh, I am well aware of all of this, but there's not much you can do when you are trying to transition a kibble addict. However, people down play the importance of calories. Too many calories is just as fattening for cats as too much carbohydrates. It does not matter if the calorie content is all meat and fat - it is still going to make the cat fat. My goal is to get them off dry food without making the big boy fatter. Despite the meat density of EVO, I've seen fat cats just balloon more on it. I've never seen a cat lose weight from EVO, Acana, or Orijen. Just gain weight. Too much weight. In contrast, I've seen cats lose weight on foods like Solid Gold. So, in my humble opinion, it is a better transition food if your end goal is to get the cat on all wet without making the cat fatter.

 

[orange&white]

Also you cannot compare one cup of peas to one cup of pea powder.

1 ounce (28 grams) of peas has 22.7 calories and 1.5 grams of protein.
1 ounce (28 grams) of pea protein powder has 112 calories and 22.7 grams of protein.

So concentrated, approx. 5x the calories and 14x the protein ounce for ounce. Be nice if cats could assimilate it.

One of the saving graces of pea protein is that the way that it is engineered to suck the protein out and mostly leave the carbs behind. So whole peas will be very "carby" and pea protein powder is an isolate.

 

[kittensx4]

Hmm, what? That is strange. Hold on. Let me check Petco. They are usually up to date.

https://www.petco.com/shop/en/petco...ain-and-gluten-free-dry-cat-food-with-chicken

Ah, so it does have chickpeas! However, I do not see any whole peas. Just pea protein. The lack of potatoes does still make it one of the better dry foods. Plus the fact that the calorie content is so reasonable. Keep in mind that no matter what dry food you feed, it is always going to have a relatively high level of carbs in it because dry food must have carbs in it in order for it to cook properly. However, the other plus side with this dry food is that chickpeas seems to be the only major source of carbs and when you compare it to potatoes and peas, it is super low.

A single medium sized potato is 37 g of carbs, about one cup of peas is 21 g of carbs, and chickpeas (depending on amount used), can be less in carbs. It is all relative. So, as far as dry foods go, this is about as good as it gets. However, this is not to say that foods such as Orijen and Acana are bad. They most certainly are not, but they are very rich and calorie dense so if you go that route, you need to be *very* careful how much you feed them.

Of course, the issue with your babies is that some of them are dry food addicts like my boy was (he has become much more accepting of the wet food once I put him and his wife on a strict schedule) and they may not take kindly to the extremely reduced portions of Orijen or Acana that you would have to feed in order to get them their dry food BUT keep their weight under control.

Nevertheless, you should check into all three options and see what works best for you. I have found the Solid Gold works best because of the higher meat content and the lower calories that allow me to feed more crunchies so my crunchy addict gets his fill. LOL!

On a lighter note, why is it always the male kitties who need the wet food most (urinary crystals risk, weight etc.) that seem to be the dry food lovers? Ugh!

You are just an awesome wealth of information! Their dry mix now is 75% nature's recipe which is 395kcal/cup and 22% carbs with 25% Evo which is 538kcal/cup and 12% carbs. The Evo is also 50% protein. So one has decent calories, the other awesome in carbs and protein, so I mix. Oh, it is so exhausting...

 

[orange&white]

However, people down play the importance of calories. Too many calories is just as fattening for cats as too much carbohydrates. It does not matter if the calorie content is all meat and fat - it is still going to make the cat fat.

Yes, I also noted that fact in my first reply. Eventually counting calories and slowly reducing is the only way weight loss is going to happen.

A cat can lose weight on any food if you slowly reduce the amount of food over time, so that is the most important thing is to get the cat to a healthy weight.

The reason I prefer an all (or at least mostly ) animal-protein/animal-fat diet, is because there is a risk of the cat losing its muscle mass while losing weight if it isn't eating enough assimilable protein.

 

[kittensx4]

Oh, I am well aware of all of this, but there's not much you can do when you are trying to transition a kibble addict. However, people down play the importance of calories. Too many calories is just as fattening for cats as too much carbohydrates. It does not matter if the calorie content is all meat and fat - it is still going to make the cat fat. My goal is to get them off dry food without making the big boy fatter. Despite the meat density of EVO, I've seen fat cats just balloon more on it. I've never seen a cat lose weight from EVO, Acana, or Orijen. Just gain weight. Too much weight. In contrast, I've seen cats lose weight on foods like Solid Gold. So, in my humble opinion, it is a better transition food if your end goal is to get the cat on all wet without making the cat fatter.

Oh boy. Maybe I shouldn't have added in the Evo???