Vital Essentials?

[catnamedpanda]

The store I have been buying my raw from now is carrying Vital Essentials. The cost of it is really affordable. I have been feeding Natures Variety and some Primal. Although the patties are labeled for dogs, I have been told they are good for feeding a cat as well. Has anyone fed this, any thoughts?

 

[vball91]

I have tried the Beef nuggets on my picky cat. She does love raw beef strips, so I thought she might like this, but nope. The nuggets at least are quite dry. I might try adding water and smushing them up to see if she likes it better that way.

 

[ldg]

I never tried the beef, but mine that eat ground liked the chicken. I never checked the taurine, because I used it as a part of the rotation. But it's got no fruits or veggies, and a good Ca ratio for cats.

 

[catnamedpanda]

Yes, I like that there are no fruit and veggie!

If I am remembering correctly the chicken and the beef were the two that had enough taurine. The rabbit and duck I think were fine in rotation but not good long term. I was thinking about switching to it primarily and sprinkling the other brands for variety. If I did that should I maybe get some taurine to add?

 

[ldg]

They have rabbit and duck now? When I first used it, there was only beef, chicken - and some fish thing, I think.

Taurine... I know my diet has enough taurine in it. I feed PMR, and feed them hearts. But I still supplement some taurine, only because it's so important. If they like the Vital Essentials and you decide to use it as the primary food, I'd probably supplement some taurine, just to be on the safe side.

 

[catnamedpanda]

Yes they have beef, chicken, turkey, rabbit, duck, fish and tripe. They have kitty cups for cats where it is a meal per cup, but it is more expensive to feed it that way.

I think that is what I am going to do, how much taurine should I add?

I am hoping they will like it. Boo is the only one I would question not liking it. I am very proud of him though, he eats all his food without any toppers now. I don't know what changed actually. He went from needing toppers a few times during a meal to get him to eat it all. Then randomly one day I put down his food and went to grab the tuna flakes and he started eating. He ate the entire meal without them and has every meal since then. I am not complaining, but it is a mystery to me.

 

[ldg]

Here's how I decided: http://feline-nutrition.org/answers/answers-how-much-taurine-should-i-add

I bought the NOW 1000mg capsules, and gave the cats 1/4 of a capsule every-other day. There are actually a lot of factors that affect how much taurine is needed, I've come across a lot of research on it looking up other things. But that's a really good starting point - and you know they're getting some from the diet. It's water soluble, so it can't hurt to give that amount daily, which is what some people do.

 

[mschauer]

I never tried the beef, but mine that eat ground liked the chicken.

I never checked the taurine, because I used it as a part of the rotation. But it's got no fruits or veggies, and a good Ca ratio for cats.

There's something funny about the Ca for the chicken. They say it is 1.41:1 but that the calcium is 1.85% and the phosphorus is 1.72% (DM). That is a ratio of 1.08:1.

They have the Ca right for the beef; 1.07:1 for calcium of 1.15% and phosphorus of 1.07%.

They don't have the info for the turkey. 

 

[ldg]

It's a good ratio at 1.1:1 .... but hard to trust the information, really, when something doesn't add up, as there's no way to know where the error is.

Catnamedpanda, you may want to talk to the company to ask the question - or let them know their website has info that doesn't add up.

 

[catnamedpanda]

You have lost me on the calcium phosphorous ratio. I have been trusting that the food is properly balanced.What should I be looking for, and how do I tell?

I was looking on the website and could not find any info about Ca. Maybe I am looking in the wrong place?

 

[ldg]

You'd asked if the food was appropriate for cats, even though it isn't marketed for them. mschauer obviously went to the website to take a look and see. She found that there is an error on their website for the Calciumhosphorus ratio for chicken.

Whether it is really 1.4:1, as the website says, or 1.1:1, which is what it works out to be based on the information they provide about the calcium and phosphorus amounts in the food, either way it is appropriate for cats.

My only point was that you may want to send the company an email to let them know that their website says the Ca ratio for the chicken frozen raw food is 1.4:1. But they provide the calcium number - it is listed as 1.85%, and they provide the phosphorus number - it is listed as 1.72%. So the calciumhosphorus ratio, based on the amount of calcium and phosphorus in the food is 1.85 divided by 1.72, which works out to 1.1 to 1, not 1.4 to 1.

So we don't know if they've listed the Ca number wrong, or if they have the calcium or the phosphorus number wrong. They might want to know that, so they can fix their website information.

For your purposes, it doesn't really matter. Either way, it works out to be just fine for your kitty.

 

[catnamedpanda]

I am going to contact the company. I was trying to find where the info is listed on the website. I even looked at the bag at the store today and didn't see anything about calcium or phosphorus. Either way I will ask them, and let you know what I find out.

 

[catnamedpanda]

Sorry I am late getting back to you, this is the response I got via email from the company.

Thank you for your email in regards to Vital Essentials.

You will be pleased to hear that our chicken, turkey, and beef entrees for dogs are also a complete diet for cats. The duck and rabbit may be used for supplemental or rotational feedings for cats. We have not yet guaranteed that the duck and rabbit are appropriate to be fed as 100% of a cat’s diet.

As for the Ca ratio, I am curious to see where your friend found the calcium to be 1.85% and 1.72% for phosphorus. The correct amounts are 3.85% calcium and 2.72% phosphorus for every 8oz.

 

[ldg]

You might want to let them know the information came from their website! :lol3: The point was that the information they have up there doesn't match: either the Ca they had listed was wrong, or the percentages were wrong. They're saying the percentages they have listed are incorrect.

 

[lisamarie12]

I had an email exchange with Vital Essentials this morning regarding their freeze dried raw rabbit patties for dogs and wondering if I could give 10% daily to the cats.

This is what I was told: "As an alpha prey model diet, the food is great for either dogs or cats. We don't need to add synthetic vitamin packs or fruits and vegetables because we use a larger amount and expanded variety of organ meats in them."

I'm considering getting a package of FD rabbit patties to rehydrate and give to the cats as their last meal for the day, again, just 10%.

I asked about their FD "nibblets" for cats, that I had read that the nibblets don't absorb moisture well. She agreed actually and said that while the nibs could be soaked for 10 mins, that "sometimes" the cats will lap up the water around them.

The FD pattties are powdery, like S&C.

For those who don't want to use rabbit, they do make other proteins in the FD patties for dogs, eg chicken, turkey, duck, etc.