Vet Says Not To Feed Grain Free Food To Cats

[Kathy'sKats]

I am new to this forum but not new to cats and not new to grain free food. I feed only grain free, but all grain free is not the same. First, the grain free food causing problems in dogs is that with legumes, or unusual protein sources, or high vegetable protein sources. From what I have heard the problem stems from taurine absorption just like it did with cats many years ago. Vegetable protein does not contain taurine only meat does. And Legumes appear to block taurine absorption. So feed grain free, low vegetable content, no legume, high quality meat foods and you should be ok. I'm not a vet or a nutritionist, just a cat person who does a lot of research.

 

[kittyluv387]

I am new to this forum but not new to cats and not new to grain free food. I feed only grain free, but all grain free is not the same. First, the grain free food causing problems in dogs is that with legumes, or unusual protein sources, or high vegetable protein sources. From what I have heard the problem stems from taurine absorption just like it did with cats many years ago. Vegetable protein does not contain taurine only meat does. And Legumes appear to block taurine absorption. So feed grain free, low vegetable content, no legume, high quality meat foods and you should be ok. I'm not a vet or a nutritionist, just a cat person who does a lot of research.

Welcome! Glad to have you here. Sounds like you know your stuff.

 

[zed xyzed]

Not all grain free is the same, I agree, that in many instances they replace the grain with legumes or other filler products like potatoes. That is why I only feed my guys frozen raw and super high quality canned like Rawz. I also supplement with Taurine just to be on the safe side. Like K Kathy'sKats I do an insane amount of research. A comment like don't feed grain free cat food is an ignorant comment. BTW my vet is a huge believer in frozen raw food.

 

[1 bruce 1]

Welcome! Glad to have you here. Sounds like you know your stuff.

Likewise. Welcome, K Kathy'sKats ! I think you're right on the money

 

[GGG]

I am new to this forum but not new to cats and not new to grain free food. I feed only grain free, but all grain free is not the same. First, the grain free food causing problems in dogs is that with legumes, or unusual protein sources, or high vegetable protein sources. From what I have heard the problem stems from taurine absorption just like it did with cats many years ago. Vegetable protein does not contain taurine only meat does. And Legumes appear to block taurine absorption. So feed grain free, low vegetable content, no legume, high quality meat foods and you should be ok. I'm not a vet or a nutritionist, just a cat person who does a lot of research.

Thank you!
I feed my Skye wet and dry, a variation of brands for wet food and I feed her instinct by Nature's variety dry food, what are your thoughts on that dry food? And if you feed any dry, what brand do you feed?
Thanks again

 

[lisahe]

Thank you!
I feed my Skye wet and dry, a variation of brands for wet food and I feed her instinct by Nature's variety dry food, what are your thoughts on that dry food? And if you feed any dry, what brand do you feed?
Thanks again

I'm not sure which of the NV foods you're feeding but the "original" recipe does contain peas, one of the ingredients the FDA mentions. (Check fiorya's post, above, which has a box with key lines.)

We already avoid all the ingredients the FDA has listed because we feed the cats an all-wet diet very low in carbs. That's what agrees with their digestive systems so I'm glad that's what's apparently better for them in other ways, too!

 

[5starcathotel]

Her vet was not too pleased when I told her I changed the dry food so she always recommends Purina, Royal Canin, Hills Science, Iams and Eukanuba

At least 2 of those are horrid choices. Especially for dry.
[Edit:] I know your vet went to school, but I think you need to find a smarter vet. One that won't recommend you feed cats "flour", "corn gluten meal", and other "meals".

 

[MissClouseau]

I'm late but I've been on this topic a lot lately, reading, talking to vets... I will just make a list, it's easier that way!

• I don't know where you live but the vets in the USA are quite different than the rest of vets. (I'm not from the USA but I do follow vet forums, Q&As a lot.) Be aware the biggest popular brands are all owned by the USA companies -- Hill's, Royal Canin, Purina. Vets in the USA get a lot of information and presentation from these companies. NOT to say anything bad about these companies but for example, BOTH Hill's and Purina have grain-free foods yet you don't see them in the FDA investigation AND vets still name these brands as their trustworthy brands. Logically, if the problem is lack of the grain, or what they replace the grains with (peas, sweet potatoes, lentils)... all these also exist in the vets' most trustworthy brands. Meaning, without a conclusion, we don't even know what to avoid and whatever needs to be avoided might very well exist in those "trustworthy brands" you will switch to. Also Farmina for example, a EU brand and has a veterinary line too.
• But... one of the bigger problems about smaller brands is without feeding trials, we are also not sure of their "maximum"s. Like they state "Phosphorus: Minimum %X" and that fits AAFCO's standards in the USA apparently but their maximums may not. I recently compared phosphorus levels of some dry foods and it ranges from "minimum %0,70" to "minimum %1,30" %0,60 may not appear as too much difference but to give an idea if a cat has kidney disease, they are advised to have less than 0,50% phosphorus. (Low phosphorus is also bad and what is low depends on the cat. Just giving the numbers to show the minimum percentages are quite different and imagine how different it can get if their maximum is too higher than their given minimums.)
• Dogs are omnivores, cats are carnivores. It would be quite ridiculous to read anything about one's diet into a study about the other.
• The vets where I live say if there is a health concern about cats & grain-free diet, that's not anything about heart but their digestive system. There isn't enough study on how a cat's digestive system would respond to longterm high animal protein as grain-free foods tend to have higher animal protein. The cats in the wild do not live as long as house cats so "meat is the natural source" doesn't really say much.
• Personally I think big brands are safer as we get so many more feedback about them. At least we know whatever the average lifespan is currently, the most popular foods do not shorten it. I mean, I can find many people who can say "I fed my cat with mostly Royal Canin and he lived up to 18 years old" but personally I haven't met a single person who fed their cat with Acana or Orijen and their cat made it into 18 years of age.

With that being said, I still feed my cat with Acana for dry food, which is considered a boutique brand because nothing else worked for her so far. Diarrhea, too much gas, itchy all over, refusing to eat -- there was at least one with every big brand's food I have tried. I still try a food from big brands from time to time but no need to torture the cat and force a change if her current diet seems to be working for now.

 

[GGG]

At least 2 of those are horrid choices. Especially for dry.
[Edit:] I know your vet went to school, but I think you need to find a smarter vet. One that won't recommend you feed cats "flour", "corn gluten meal", and other "meals".

I'm late but I've been on this topic a lot lately, reading, talking to vets... I will just make a list, it's easier that way!

• I don't know where you live but the vets in the USA are quite different than the rest of vets. (I'm not from the USA but I do follow vet forums, Q&As a lot.) Be aware the biggest popular brands are all owned by the USA companies -- Hill's, Royal Canin, Purina. Vets in the USA get a lot of information and presentation from these companies. NOT to say anything bad about these companies but for example, BOTH Hill's and Purina have grain-free foods yet you don't see them in the FDA investigation AND vets still name these brands as their trustworthy brands. Logically, if the problem is lack of the grain, or what they replace the grains with (peas, sweet potatoes, lentils)... all these also exist in the vets' most trustworthy brands. Meaning, without a conclusion, we don't even know what to avoid and whatever needs to be avoided might very well exist in those "trustworthy brands" you will switch to. Also Farmina for example, a EU brand and has a veterinary line too.
• But... one of the bigger problems about smaller brands is without feeding trials, we are also not sure of their "maximum"s. Like they state "Phosphorus: Minimum %X" and that fits AAFCO's standards in the USA apparently but their maximums may not. I recently compared phosphorus levels of some dry foods and it ranges from "minimum %0,70" to "minimum %1,30" %0,60 may not appear as too much difference but to give an idea if a cat has kidney disease, they are advised to have less than 0,50% phosphorus. (Low phosphorus is also bad and what is low depends on the cat. Just giving the numbers to show the minimum percentages are quite different and imagine how different it can get if their maximum is too higher than their given minimums.)
• Dogs are omnivores, cats are carnivores. It would be quite ridiculous to read anything about one's diet into a study about the other.
• The vets where I live say if there is a health concern about cats & grain-free diet, that's not anything about heart but their digestive system. There isn't enough study on how a cat's digestive system would respond to longterm high animal protein as grain-free foods tend to have higher animal protein. The cats in the wild do not live as long as house cats so "meat is the natural source" doesn't really say much.
• Personally I think big brands are safer as we get so many more feedback about them. At least we know whatever the average lifespan is currently, the most popular foods do not shorten it. I mean, I can find many people who can say "I fed my cat with mostly Royal Canin and he lived up to 18 years old" but personally I haven't met a single person who fed their cat with Acana or Orijen and their cat made it into 18 years of age.

With that being said, I still feed my cat with Acana for dry food, which is considered a boutique brand because nothing else worked for her so far. Diarrhea, too much gas, itchy all over, refusing to eat -- there was at least one with every big brand's food I have tried. I still try a food from big brands from time to time but no need to torture the cat and force a change if her current diet seems to be working for now.

Thanks you for all the info!
I live in Canada, I feed my cat instinct bye Nature variety dry and a rotation of different brands of wet food. She is doing well on it. I don't know if it's wrong but I don't want to put her through change, I had to do that before many many times to be able to find the wet food she'd eat I don't want to put her through that again.

 

[Cheyennesmom19]

Dilated Cardiomyopathy and Grain-Free Diets: Thoughts on the FDA Update

 

[Dianaruth]

Cats and dogs don’t need any type of carb in their diet. I’d like to see it all go in a perfect world. Until then I’ll be feeding high meat low carb foods. And usually that falls into the grain free category.

Indeed! If that's what they evolved to eat, that's what we feed them.

 

[5starcathotel]

Dilated Cardiomyopathy and Grain-Free Diets: Thoughts on the FDA Update

Again, it's worth pointing out, that domesticated cats and dogs are distinct species. Domestic dogs are not wolves - they evolved from wolves, to eat human leftovers, including the animal parts that humans discarded. It's why many modern dogs regard cat poop as a savory treat!

"Domesticated" cats (quotes intentional) learned to live alongside humans, and eat the vermin that fed on humans' crops. They have never been trained as hunting companions, or guardians, etc. They obstinately remain true to their obligate carnivore roots.

All that said.....houseplants! And also, my kitty Blue eating/stealing lettuce and tomato-vines from meal prep areas....

 

[5starcathotel]

The vets where I live say if there is a health concern about cats & grain-free diet, that's not anything about heart but their digestive system. There isn't enough study on how a cat's digestive system would respond to longterm high animal protein as grain-free foods tend to have higher animal protein. The cats in the wild do not live as long as house cats so "meat is the natural source" doesn't really say much.

I humbly disagree with this, and quote Charles Darwin as my source! Yes, it's true, that cats in the wild do not live as long as house cats. That's true of homeless humans as well! Shelter from predators and good nutrition and access to clean water counts for a *ton* of longevity, regardless of species.

But we can certainly look to nature to understand what an animal has evolved to eat. Gazelles and Zebras eat grasses. Lions and cheetahs eat them. Smaller cats eat rodents, birds, and insects...they have never eaten corn or wheat, until humans made such things appetizing to them.

 

[JamesCalifornia]

~ Fortunately my cats will not eat very much dry food. They seem to think of it as a snack - but they do like it. I think the safe thing is to feed 70-80% wet diet. Cats have lived very long lives on the "old stuff". This new "garden greens" and "grain free with sweet potato" is marketing gimmicks.
For a treat I steam chicken, sizzle some chicken hearts & gizzards, sometimes a fatty ground beef or chicken livers.

 

[darg]

From everything I'm reading, this appears (to me) like it may end up being related to taurine (lack of bioavailability maybe or maybe not related to legumes) and dogs. I'm not expecting that this will actually end up being directly related to lack of grains. Regardless, I'm not seeing anything that directly or definitively links any of this to cats, maybe since taurine is usually a direct additive to their foods.

On top of that, 100% meat and/or meat and meat by product canned cat foods without grains, or any other vege bassed fillers for that matter, are not new. We may be seeing more brands of them now but I know they were available years ago when I first tried to switched to canned. Commercial raw isn't all that new and feeding homemade raw/cooked isn't new either. Yet, this hasn't seemed to have popped up as an issue in the cat world before and doesn't seem to be doing so now. My vet definitely isn't a feline nutrition expert, but didn't seem to have any problems with the dietary switch at our last visit a couple months back. Personally, I'm not worried about this issue and my cat. I'm also not one to give in to every incident of internet mass hysteria so maybe that helps when things like this pop up.

I suppose we'll all know more when the FDA gets to a definitive conclusion (if they ever really do). Until then, I'm carrying on as usual.

 

[MissClouseau]

I humbly disagree with this, and quote Charles Darwin as my source! Yes, it's true, that cats in the wild do not live as long as house cats. That's true of homeless humans as well! Shelter from predators and good nutrition and access to clean water counts for a *ton* of longevity, regardless of species.

But we can certainly look to nature to understand what an animal has evolved to eat. Gazelles and Zebras eat grasses. Lions and cheetahs eat them. Smaller cats eat rodents, birds, and insects...they have never eaten corn or wheat, until humans made such things appetizing to them.

There is no evidence how much a house cat's extra years of life compare to a stray cat belongs to having a shelter and how much of it belongs to nutrition. Also, another point of cats in the wild having a shorter lifespan is we cannot know if they would continue to live with their diet in the wild, without any infection or predators, OR if their metabolism wouldn't handle that diet.

Our own ancestors' natural diet was also pretty poor AND they had a short lifespan. A good evidence to this would be meat. Meat is a great source for protein which is necessary for us humans as well but too much of it, like our ancestors had, leads to all kinds of health issues starting with heart problems.

 

[zed xyzed]

I would recommend that regardless of the type of food you feed to additionally supplement with Taurine. When I got Midi he had a mild heart murmur, after taurine supplements the vet can't detect it. He is 19 years old and doing really well.

 

[JamesCalifornia]

I would recommend that regardless of the type of food you feed to additionally supplement with Taurine. When I got Midi he had a mild heart murmur, after taurine supplements the vet can't detect it. He is 19 years old and doing really well.

~ Interesting ...

 

[GGG]

~ Interesting ...

To additionally supplement with taurine, Does it have to be prescribed by the vet or you can just add it to the kitty diet?
Thank you!!

 

[Tobermory]

To additionally supplement with taurine, Does it have to be prescribed by the vet or you can just add it to the kitty diet?
Thank you!!

You don’t need a prescription for taurine. It’s sold widely in the (human) supplement section of stores or online. I buy mine from vitacost.com or iherb.com. I’m currently using NOW brand but I’ve also used Source Naturals.